So you think that removing and adding doesn't count as "add, remove, or alter in any way?"
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I'm...disappointed by the tyrant archetype. It isn't actually an archetype; it's basically just an official ruling that antipaladins can be lawful. ... It feels frankly lazy. I was pumped for that and it's a letdown.I have to agree, sadly. I was excited for this in preparation for playing a Lawful Evil Anti-Paladin in Hell's Vengeance. This so-called 'Archetype' is the very height of laziness. I was so excited for this archetype it was the first thing I looked at in the book, only to be met with crushing disappointment.
I've only given the rest of it a cursory glance, but that was a serious thumbs down, Paizo. Bad show.
With regards to the Tyrant, gotta agree, height of laziness. But it's still better than the terrible Gray Paladin. Just think, the Tyrant could of been something truly terrible if they actually tried to make it unique like that. Sadly I suppose that means we just got lazy instead.To be fair, the Tyrant was exactly what the majority of people were asking for in the threads on this topic, like this one:
Asmodean Antipaladin archetype with the upcoming AP?
E.g., James Jacobs asks:
Warpriests of Asmodeus don't cut it?
What is it folks want if that's not the case? Someone who's lawful evil who has the mercy mechanic? Someone who is lawful evil but gets to call themselves some sort of paladin?
And the most favorited reply (by far) is:
At least in my case it's the full Paladin package. Full base attack (not 3/4 BAB but sometimes full due to a limited/optional/temporary/spell-based mechanic), 4-level spell list, Smite, Lay on Hands, Channel, Mercy, code of conduct, the whole shebang.So I think this is just a case of Paizo giving people what they asked for.
Giving them what they asked for. In the laziest, most uninspired manner possible. No ability tweaks? No additional flavour? This 'archetype' (I use the word loosely), only tells me things I would already know about a Lawful Evil. Also why trade Ride for Diplomacy? Suddenly, the antipaladin being lawful means he doesn't learn how to ride a horse? I really don't get it.
This is a bad archetype, and whoever made it should feel bad.
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No additional flavour?
So the altered Code of Conduct, which allows the Tyrant to employ whoever the heck they feel like, giving them vastly more flexibility when it comes to leading organizations without having to give up one iota of their ability to kick peoples' faces in, means nothing to you?
I mean, by all means, continue the righteous indignation, but the Tyrant did nothing but give people what they'd told Paizo they wanted-a Lawful Evil Antipaladin. When that's all the change people desired, how much tweaking SHOULD the archetype have?
I have another question regarding the Metamorph. I think I know the answer to this but I want to make sure. Does the Natural Armor bonus from Mutagen stack with the Natural Armor bonus from Monstrous Physique? I wouldn't think so but I wanted to check.
I have another question regarding the Metamorph. I think I know the answer to this but I want to make sure. Does the Natural Armor bonus from Mutagen stack with the Natural Armor bonus from Monstrous Physique? I wouldn't think so but I wanted to check.
You're right that they don't, but both stack with amulet of natural armor or another effect that enhances your natural armor.
It's just my opinion, but I think the Avenger ability "Returning Weapon" should be Supernatural instead of Extraordinary. It seems like a more arcane ability to me.
It's just my opinion, but I think the Avenger ability "Returning Weapon" should be Supernatural instead of Extraordinary. It seems like a more arcane ability to me.
That'd be sucky, since it's meant to be like how heroes like Xena are just that good at throwing.
It's just my opinion, but I think the Avenger ability "Returning Weapon" should be Supernatural instead of Extraordinary. It seems like a more arcane ability to me.That'd be sucky, since it's meant to be like how heroes like Xena are just that good at throwing.
Yeah, I get that, and the Xena reference occurred to me, as well. In my mind it was a magical returning chakram.. lol
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I finished cross referencing everything that I commented on during the vigilante playtest and I am deeply saddened by what I have discovered.
Many of the arbitrary level restrictions on Social Talents have not been removed, which results in you basically picking a bloodline (one of two) for your social identity, as far as mechanics go.
This whole class really is a hodge podge of false options.
Any build that doesn't want to be based on intimidate basically loses out on a class feature, since the [insert different word for scary here] appearance abilities are not optional talents.
Quick change still not only is a talent, but requires you to be 7th level to take.
I am glad to see the spellcasting variants got changed, and I am very delighted in the versions that we get of new spellcasting niches like the cabalist being our 6-level witch spellcaster. As predicted, the Arcane Anthology archetypes that give up half their class features for spellcasting are emulated here. Not a bad choice considering the original.
That said, I am unhappy with how the zealot turned out, he's now MAD, and is basically just a crappy inquisitor, and I don't get why half his talents are based on CHA when his spellcasting and subsequent class features are based on WIS. The design space for divine casters is limited and they dropped the ball here.
The Warlock can cast in armor now, which was a huge problem during the playtest. Arcane Striker is such an obvious talent to take, but it can't enhance your bolts with weapon abilities until 12th level still, which is much too late. Can you Deadly Aim with Mystic Bolts? They aren't normally a touch attack until 5th level. It's odd.
We also no longer have our nature based hero that was one of our zealot variants. Basically, the zealot sucks now, and the warlock is playable, begrudgingly.
I'm glad the stalker and avenger are basically the same choice, I don't like how they are organized though. I personally feel like each specialization should have had it's own section dedicated to itself like Domains or Bloodlines, with their individual talents listed with their abilities like the archetypes have.
End of the day, very disappointed with the class overall.
Verbal Dueling is great, and I plan to implement it into my games all but immediately.
I'm still currently reading the skills section, but what I've read so far is fantastic and great help for someone like me who struggles to get players involved more deeply in the context of role playing.
The feats and spells are hit and miss for me. Some are fantastic, some aren't...
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No additional flavour?So the altered Code of Conduct, which allows the Tyrant to employ whoever the heck they feel like, giving them vastly more flexibility when it comes to leading organizations without having to give up one iota of their ability to kick peoples' faces in, means nothing to you?
I mean, by all means, continue the righteous indignation, but the Tyrant did nothing but give people what they'd told Paizo they wanted-a Lawful Evil Antipaladin. When that's all the change people desired, how much tweaking SHOULD the archetype have?
I'm not mad that people finally got the LE Antipaladin. I'm one of the people who wanted it, and I have done so ever since Way of the Wicked allowed for them.
But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an archetype to actually change things up. Imagine if Barbarian's got an archetype that allowed them to be lawful. And that was all it did. Don't you think it needs more than a handful of sentences to discuss the change? At the very least, if you're not going to discuss much of a change, at least bother to note spell changes and allowed abilities for a Fiendish Weapon bond.
It might be what people wanted, but that doesn't stop it from being lazy, and the bare minimum require to make people shut up.
If it was worth doing, it should be worth doing right.
Just reading the Vigilante right now, but the level requirement on a lot of social talents feels unnecessary. Quick Change is the worst, IMHO though it doesn't feel important on most of them.
Also not a fan of the talent upgrading. Going from Renown to Better Renown to Best Renown or Disguise to Better Disguise to Best Disguise sucks. It means a lot of your social talents are just getting burned upgrading what you have rather than unlocking new tricks.
It's a little odd too because a large number of Vigilante talents improve as you level up. I'm not sure why there's that design disconnect.
Speaking of Renown. I still don't think it's big enough at higher levels. A 20th level Vigilante is a CR appropriate threat for great wyrms and is teaming up with his other epic hero buddies to take down Cthulhu... but the Red Raven still can't get almost half of Galt's capital city to respect him. An Absalomian Vigilante caps out at under 9% of the city's population under Renown.
It's one of the more minor issues, especially because high level isn't always that relevant, but it definitely feels strange.
I also almost wish Stalker and Avenger didn't exist. They're cool ideas, but I keep bumping into specialization specific talents that I really want to combine with an archetype or the other specialization. Mostly Fist of the Avenger, but Nothing Can Stop Me being inaccessible to Brutes just feels criminal.
As an aside, really wish Stalker and Avenger talents were in their own separate entries. Partly because it'd make it easier to find specific options and partly because I keep accidentally reading over cool avenger specializations while trying to build my archetyped vigilantes.
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No additional flavour?So the altered Code of Conduct, which allows the Tyrant to employ whoever the heck they feel like, giving them vastly more flexibility when it comes to leading organizations without having to give up one iota of their ability to kick peoples' faces in, means nothing to you?
I mean, by all means, continue the righteous indignation, but the Tyrant did nothing but give people what they'd told Paizo they wanted-a Lawful Evil Antipaladin. When that's all the change people desired, how much tweaking SHOULD the archetype have?
I'm not mad that people finally got the LE Antipaladin. I'm one of the people who wanted it, and I have done so ever since Way of the Wicked allowed for them.
But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an archetype to actually change things up. Imagine if Barbarian's got an archetype that allowed them to be lawful. And that was all it did. Don't you think it needs more than a handful of sentences to discuss the change? At the very least, if you're not going to discuss much of a change, at least bother to note spell changes and allowed abilities for a Fiendish Weapon bond.
It might be what people wanted, but that doesn't stop it from being lazy, and the bare minimum require to make people shut up.
If it was worth doing, it should be worth doing right.
It's not lazy because it is EXACTLY what the most vocal and largest amount of people pushing for an alternate alignment Antipaladin wanted. An archetype that lets you be LE, and changes absolutely nothing. Even though the Insinuator is awesome and lets you be any E a large number of people complained precisely because of all the stuff that was changed.
The people called. Paizo answered.
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No additional flavour?So the altered Code of Conduct, which allows the Tyrant to employ whoever the heck they feel like, giving them vastly more flexibility when it comes to leading organizations without having to give up one iota of their ability to kick peoples' faces in, means nothing to you?
I mean, by all means, continue the righteous indignation, but the Tyrant did nothing but give people what they'd told Paizo they wanted-a Lawful Evil Antipaladin. When that's all the change people desired, how much tweaking SHOULD the archetype have?
I'm not mad that people finally got the LE Antipaladin. I'm one of the people who wanted it, and I have done so ever since Way of the Wicked allowed for them.
But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an archetype to actually change things up. Imagine if Barbarian's got an archetype that allowed them to be lawful. And that was all it did. Don't you think it needs more than a handful of sentences to discuss the change? At the very least, if you're not going to discuss much of a change, at least bother to note spell changes and allowed abilities for a Fiendish Weapon bond.
It might be what people wanted, but that doesn't stop it from being lazy, and the bare minimum require to make people shut up.
If it was worth doing, it should be worth doing right.
It's not lazy because it is EXACTLY what the most vocal and largest amount of people pushing for an alternate alignment Antipaladin wanted. An archetype that lets you be LE, and changes absolutely nothing. Even though the Insinuator is awesome and lets you be any E a large number of people complained precisely because of all the stuff that was changed.
The people called. Paizo answered.
I think the laziness comes from the fact that weapons need to be axiomatic rather than anarchic, [chaotic] spells need to be replaced with lawful spells, and most people want to see an antipaladin with Conductive as a weapon option.
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I'm...disappointed by the tyrant archetype. It isn't actually an archetype; it's basically just an official ruling that antipaladins can be lawful. Like, that's good, since there are some out there who don't like houseruling that or whatever, but... The spell list? The whole anarchic/axiomatic oversight? It feels frankly lazy. I was pumped for that and it's a letdown.
We do have a changes-everything option for LE Antipaladin already (still my go-to choice). The anarchic weapon property is one of the four options available, and a clever character can still use it to their advantage- a temporary negative level that can be removed as a free action allows them to fake being weaker than they are, for instance. By not changing the spell list, the archetype can stack with Dread Vanguard, which is a great choice for more party-focused Antipaladins (or those who don't like the save-focused 4/9 spell list that the Antipaladin has).
In any case, I'm really happy to be getting such a big list of archetypes in this book. I've got a new default for Swashbuckler, an improvement on my Mesmerist concept, charisma-based casters off the Druid and Hunter lists, a bunch of new 6/9 casting options through Vigilante, a great Oracle mystery, and Avenger Vigilante as the main ingredient in my martial nine-tailed build.
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I don't mind the tiered social talents, at least for now, because I actually have a problem finding enough social talents I like to fill a level 17/18 build (I play a lot of adventure paths).
Yeah, I suppose that's the biggest thing.
Renown isn't about your character being known, it's about your character being respected, and more specifically your social identity.
Oh I know that. I admit I was being a bit melodramatic, but it still bothers me that it's literally impossible for the iconic Vigilante to get his intimidate bonus with almost half his city and it's even worse for vigilantes who try to set up in other areas. I'd love it to scale up more, but it isn't the end of the world.
It's not lazy because it is EXACTLY what the most vocal and largest amount of people pushing for an alternate alignment Antipaladin wanted.
Really? I can't find any posts suggesting that people wanted an archetype where most of its spells were designed to target its own alignment and you'd get a permanent negative level for trying to use part of your fiendish boon.
Not a single one.
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Uh...reread Renown, guys. The Social Identity bonus only applies with a relatively small number of people. The Vigilante bonus to Intimidate applies to everyone within (Vigilante level) miles of the Community.
So...a 10th level Vigilante with Renown (or the enhanced versions) only has social identity benefits with a smallish number of hundreds or thousands of people (a subculture within a large city, his neighborhood, the nobility, y'know, something like that)...but has his Vigilante Intimidate bonus anywhere within 10 miles of where those people live.
That's enough to cover the entirety of Absalom.
To put it in superhero terms: People in Gotham don't all treat Bruce Wayne like he walks on water (that's limited to the rich and famous and some people who know of his charity work), but everyone is scared of Batman.
Sounds workable to me.
Oh you're right I'm just dumb.
Can't edit first post so sorry for the double.
Why does the Metamorph lose mutagen and then gain it back again? I really can't figure out what that accomplishes, other than probably locking people out of taking mutagen replacing archetypes.
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Can't edit first post so sorry for the double.
Why does the Metamorph lose mutagen and then gain it back again? I really can't figure out what that accomplishes, other than probably locking people out of taking mutagen replacing archetypes.
Archetype incompatibility is the name of the game.
After a quick flip through, I am very excited. I'm gonna make so many characters for absolutely no reason and maybe some to terrify my players.
Three things that stuck out to me: (Sorry if I'm repeating)
1. Vigilante doesn't get Knowledge (nobility)? Whaaa?
2. Sorrowsoul sounds awesome. Yeah emo bard! But I was disappointed with the abilities. Instead if an emo bard, he's just a selfish Bard. I would have liked to have some kind ability to fill his enemies with dread and sorrow.
3. Love the zeitgiest binder, but why is the personification limited to one settlement? It should change form, as well as the settlement aspect, and the spiritualist moves from settlement to settlement. This would be great for campaigns where the PC's travel long distances and visit different cities.
...back to reading some more.
Agree with all three of Don Hastily's comments. I was going to mention 1 last night but I forgot to.
Not having knowledge nobility on a class whose default fluff is all about being a noble is really weird.
and I totally expected Sorrowsoul to have debuffing performances rather than just being a bard who turns performance into combat buffs for himself. The fluff almost seems like it belongs to a different archetype altogether.
Archetype incompatibility is the name of the game.
Yeah, at first glance that's how it reads, but archetype is written rather strangely. It replaces alchemy, bombs and mutagen but for some reason seems to imply they're all the same class feature.
It also allows waives the Alchemy requirement on mutagen and cognetogen based discoveries despite none of those discoveries requiring the Alchemy class feature in the first place.
All in all pretty confusing and I don't think I've ever seen an archetype remove a class feature only to give it right back purely to prevent the character from trading out the class feature for other archetypes before.
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An alchemist can create three special types of magical items—extracts, bombs, and mutagens are transformative elixirs that the alchemist drinks to enhance his physical abilities—both of these are detailed in their own sections below.
Alchemist's organization as a class is a little unusual, but the alchemy class feature grants extracts, bombs, and mutagens, so if you remove alchemy, you have to give mutagen back to make it clear they get mutagen. No archetype has ever removed alchemy before, so it hasn't come up yet.
I guess that makes sense, though Alchemy, Bombs and Mutagen are all listed as separate class features in the Alchemist's class entry, so I'm not sure it's really necessary either, but fair enough!
On a more positive note. I love the art in this book. The mesmerist in the purple cloak who shows up at the end of the table of contents and on page 37 in particular just looks amazing.
I actually do like most of the archetypes too. I just think it's important to bring up the stuff that feels weird or wrong.
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It's not lazy because it is EXACTLY what the most vocal and largest amount of people pushing for an alternate alignment Antipaladin wanted.Really? I can't find any posts suggesting that people wanted an archetype where most of its spells were designed to target its own alignment and you'd get a permanent negative level for trying to use part of your fiendish boon.
Not a single one.
Oh no, you have. I guarantee you you've seen plenty of posts of people asking for a LE Antipaladin with little to no changes.
Paizo has now given everyone a LE Antipaladin with little to no changes.
Really? I can't find any posts suggesting that people wanted an archetype where most of its spells were designed to target its own alignment and you'd get a permanent negative level for trying to use part of your fiendish boon.
Not a single one.
It is nowhere near "most of its spells". It is four spells our of one hundred twenty-six spells:
Protection From Law (Lvl 1)Communal Protection From Law (lvl 2)
Magic Circle Against Law (Lvl 3)
Dispel Law (Lvl 4)
I would rather have the option to stack a good archetype with this than the option to prepare Protection From Chaos, Communal Protection From Chaos, Magic Circle Against Chaos, and Dispel Law.
I am quite happy with the first chapter (the character section), as I have counted about 12 archetypes I would happily play. I am reading chapter 3 and will be able to review the entire book soon.
1. Vigilante doesn't get Knowledge (nobility)? Whaaa?
Wut.
*Flips open his book again*
"What really?"
The noble turned nightly super hero has no idea what goes on in higher society.
He probably took a level in Aristocrat first if he's a noble "turned" super hero. Voila, it all makes sense.
He probably took a level in Aristocrat first if he's a noble "turned" super hero. Voila, it all makes sense.
Or it was an error... Which is rather implied by the fact that your meant to be able to be a noble as part of the class, the iconic is a noble, and Mark has said it could end up in a group of FAQ's.
He probably took a level in Aristocrat first if he's a noble "turned" super hero. Voila, it all makes sense.
Thats kinda already implied in the Social Identity that you're some kind of aristocrat. Lower case.
I was being sarcastic about how often someone (James Jacobs?) puts a couple of levels of Aristocrat on otherwise competence NPCs. Abrogail Thrune is the most painful and famous of these, but there are many more.
I have another question regarding the Metamorph. I think I know the answer to this but I want to make sure. Does the Natural Armor bonus from Mutagen stack with the Natural Armor bonus from Monstrous Physique? I wouldn't think so but I wanted to check.You're right that they don't, but both stack with amulet of natural armor or another effect that enhances your natural armor.
But the Strength bonus would stack, right? Wow, and at first level you can get a +2 size bonus to Strengh from Alter Self and a +4 alchemical bonus from the mutagen. That is pretty wild.
A Constable Daring General sounded really cool. Yeah, you can't use groom or standard bearer but who cares, having two regular deputies and a squire is awesome and turning a constable and his or her cohorts and follower's into the city's police force is a really cool idea.
Then I noticed Supreme Tactician and Instant Order's second feature and I realized how much I despise archetypes that replace capstones. Cool idea. Sunk to the bottom of the ocean because of an ability that most players will never ever use in their entire Pathfinder career.
Good book overall though. The intrigue rules and social combat seem like a lot of fun.
Not as sold on some of the archetypes, but others are neat.
Sometimes I wish that Paizo had included rules for optional archetype exchanges.
Then most of the minor little switches that are done more for flavor than anything else could be marked as optional so they don't lock you out of class concepts.
But the Strength bonus would stack, right? Wow, and at first level you can get a +2 size bonus to Strengh from Alter Self and a +4 alchemical bonus from the mutagen. That is pretty wild.I have another question regarding the Metamorph. I think I know the answer to this but I want to make sure. Does the Natural Armor bonus from Mutagen stack with the Natural Armor bonus from Monstrous Physique? I wouldn't think so but I wanted to check.You're right that they don't, but both stack with amulet of natural armor or another effect that enhances your natural armor.
They do indeed stack. It's as wild as you expect it to be :D
Good book overall though. The intrigue rules and social combat seem like a lot of fun.
Thanks! I actually was so enthused about those that I asked to freelance for our own book and wrote them myself. However, they wouldn't be nearly as awesome if it weren't for Stephen, who injected his usual genius for simplifying while simultaneously adding a dose of cool factor.
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While I've never once actually seen this spell used, this bugs the crap out of me as it basically delegates this spell to be as useless as Zone of Truth.
Detect the Faithful was soft errata'd to include the following: "A creature’s personal interpretation of its beliefs determines whether or not it is of the same faith as you—hence heretics and splinter cultists of your deity still count as worshipers of that deity. Furthermore, since the spell picks up a creature’s current beliefs and feelings, a creature actively pretending to be a member of the same faith also appears to the spell to be a member. Thus, the spell is still useful in locating potential hidden members of the same faith among the general populace, but on its own, it doesn’t weed out spies."
Understanding that this is a minor issue, and probably more of a pet peeve than anything, Basically the introduction of that last part seems to be very inconsistent with the rest of the reading of the spell, but also basically specifically invalidates the one actual use and point of the spell completely. How are a target's personal beliefs and or feelings changed if they are outright lying?
In other words, you spend a spell slot to get a False Positive and the same exact Sense Motive/Perception check you where already entitled to, but well within reason at a penalty for believing false information your deity gave you?
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While I've never once actually seen this spell used, this bugs the crap out of me as it basically delegates this spell to be as useless as Zone of Truth.
Detect the Faithful was soft errata'd to include the following: "A creature’s personal interpretation of its beliefs determines whether or not it is of the same faith as you—hence heretics and splinter cultists of your deity still count as worshipers of that deity. Furthermore, since the spell picks up a creature’s current beliefs and feelings, a creature actively pretending to be a member of the same faith also appears to the spell to be a member. Thus, the spell is still useful in locating potential hidden members of the same faith among the general populace, but on its own, it doesn’t weed out spies."
Understanding that this is a minor issue, and probably more of a pet peeve than anything, Basically the introduction of that last part seems to be very inconsistent with the rest of the reading of the spell, but also basically specifically invalidates the one actual use and point of the spell completely. How are a target's personal beliefs and or feelings changed if they are outright lying?
In other words, you spend a spell slot to get a False Positive and the same exact Sense Motive/Perception check you where already entitled to, but well within reason at a penalty for believing false information your deity gave you?
It's doing the same thing as the "good man with temporary murder in his heart" clause of detect evil. It lets the GM retain some ability for mystery and confusion if helpful to the story rather than an "I win" button that prevents all spying attempts from being successful without higher level magic shielding them.
Good GMs will use this sparingly.
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I'm really pleased with the Phantom Thief and Snoop archetypes, that allow the rogue to reclaim the King/Queen of Skills crown.
Also a big fan of all the archetypes that substantially change what kind of character one can build, like:
- Dandy: Ranger with cha-based bard spells! Social instead of nature skill set! Interestingly different favored enemy bonuses!
- Fey Trickster: Mesmerist with druid spells! And a cool nature/fairy-based spin on class abilities!
- Metamorph: Weird martial shape-changing non-alchemy alchemist!
- Cardinal: Skill-heavy yet squishy cleric!
- Tyrant: A straight up LE Antipaladin!
- All of the spell-casting Vigilante archetypes!
And I love all the archetypes that really zoom in on the stealth and/or doppelganger-themes, in a way that's attractive enough to encourage people to take, like: the Cipher, the Enigma, the Thought Eater, the Master of Disguise, and the Umbral Stalker.
Finally, pleasantly surprised by several archetypes that don't change a lot, but leave the key class feature intact, and provide an interesting spin on things, like the Noble Fencer (my new default Swashbuckler), the Conspirator (my new default Investigator), the Maverick (Han Solo!), and the Sharper (a rogue with good saves!).
There are, of course, a couple duds (like the poor Brute archetype -- though it seems like some key class feature might have been accidentally missed, so maybe we'll get an errata to fix this). But all in all, I think this is the most interesting and well-balanced batch of archetypes to appear to date.
Well done!
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While I've never once actually seen this spell used, this bugs the crap out of me as it basically delegates this spell to be as useless as Zone of Truth.
Detect the Faithful was soft errata'd to include the following: "A creature’s personal interpretation of its beliefs determines whether or not it is of the same faith as you—hence heretics and splinter cultists of your deity still count as worshipers of that deity. Furthermore, since the spell picks up a creature’s current beliefs and feelings, a creature actively pretending to be a member of the same faith also appears to the spell to be a member. Thus, the spell is still useful in locating potential hidden members of the same faith among the general populace, but on its own, it doesn’t weed out spies."
Understanding that this is a minor issue, and probably more of a pet peeve than anything, Basically the introduction of that last part seems to be very inconsistent with the rest of the reading of the spell, but also basically specifically invalidates the one actual use and point of the spell completely. How are a target's personal beliefs and or feelings changed if they are outright lying?
In other words, you spend a spell slot to get a False Positive and the same exact Sense Motive/Perception check you where already entitled to, but well within reason at a penalty for believing false information your deity gave you?
It's doing the same thing as the "good man with temporary murder in his heart" clause of detect evil. It lets the GM retain some ability for mystery and confusion if helpful to the story rather than an "I win" button that prevents all spying attempts from being successful without higher level magic shielding them.
Good GMs will use this sparingly.
That is quite sharp Slithery D. You pretty much caught it exactly, though it's even more extreme: If the spell exists as originally written and is spread amongst NPC ecclesiastical or otherwise faith-based organizations, even high-level magic is insufficient to allow PCs to infiltrate past this little 1st-level spell, since most higher-level magic makes divinations give no result, and this is one case where your PCs need the divination to give a positive result (that you do worship Evildeathicles) or the cult will kill you. Even up to 9th level spells, only really misdirection gives false-positives, but only on auras, which this probably isn't (and it gives a Will save each time anyway).
The intent of the spell is to find other secret worshipers, and in order for it to work for that, it needs to be low level, but the ability to find spies automatically as long as your group is mono-religion is way too strong for a 1st-level spell. So the spell still does what it was meant to do (help you find other faithful, since non-faithful are pretty much not going to be milling around the streets thinking about infiltrating you, only an actively infiltrating mole would), without being an automatic inquisition too.
They do indeed stack. It's as wild as you expect it to be :DBut the Strength bonus would stack, right? Wow, and at first level you can get a +2 size bonus to Strengh from Alter Self and a +4 alchemical bonus from the mutagen. That is pretty wild.I have another question regarding the Metamorph. I think I know the answer to this but I want to make sure. Does the Natural Armor bonus from Mutagen stack with the Natural Armor bonus from Monstrous Physique? I wouldn't think so but I wanted to check.You're right that they don't, but both stack with amulet of natural armor or another effect that enhances your natural armor.
I don't know what is going to happen when I show this book to my players.
What will be greater? The allure of playing this mighty metamorph, or getting a chance to play vigilante superhero type? An Inner Sea Avenger! LOL.
I'm hoping to talk someone into playing a Varisian vigilante named Captain Caravan. lol.
I know I'm supposed to love the Phantom Thief rogue archetype because it lets me play Thomas Crowne or some other hyper competent (outside of combat) thief character, but my first thought reading it was that we finally have something that can easily max the Spellcraft ranks needed to use the Codex of the Infinite Planes safely. Now that would be a weird BBEG, but I can totally see it, the artifact collector who just dabbles in minor magic while sneaking/talking/disguising/breaking his way into any vault anywhere in the multiverse.
There's got to be some other crazy skill builds out there that this works for, but I don't know enough about the skill unlocks for anything else to come to mind. I'm sure there are some wacky intimidation builds, but other classes can get intimidation bonuses.
If you've got the feat to spare you could even pick up psychic skill unlocks for the lulz.
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There's got to be some other crazy skill builds out there that this works for, but I don't know enough about the skill unlocks for anything else to come to mind. I'm sure there are some wacky intimidation builds, but other classes can get intimidation bonuses.
If you've got the feat to spare you could even pick up psychic skill unlocks for the lulz.
An Intimidate build is really valid, actually, and better than people who just get bonuses to Intimidate because of the Skill Unlock thing. It gets you to the point where you can get really terrifying and combat ending Save-or-Die effects way earlier. And with Dazzling Display you can do so as an area effect.
At 10th, you can pretty readily have Skill Mastery, a +4 stat, Skill Focus, Persuasive, and 10 ranks, for a +32 Intimidate (42 with Skill Mastery), and if you win by 20 vs. the static DC (which you will a lot of the time), they have to make a DC 20 Will Save or be pretty much completely screwed (cowering for 1 round or panicked for 1d4, then frightened for the rest of the Intimidate duration). And even only winning by 10, they panic for a round or are frightened for 1d4.
And that's basically only 3 Feats (which you get loads of) and one skill, so you have plenty of resources for other stuff, too.