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Hi there fellow Pathfinders,
I will like to start this guide by telling you that the priority of making this is not break the game or to make the ultimate optimization possible for the Druid, my mission here is to share my thoughts of this awesome class and with your support and contribution we can make this guide a good place to start building a functional Druid and to share solutions to the challenge of being one of the most versatile class on Pathfinder.
Im not an expert of the class or Pathfinder in general, in fact this is my first guide ever on internet, but for the last 2 years I been lurking the forums for help and tips to make my own characters and creations and it's time to give something back to the community
Enjoy and any comment and sugestion is more than welcome
This is a work in progress
Prometeus guide to Druids
Looks like a good start! Keep it up :)
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First iff6, thank you for a well , pictured illustrated , guide.
A few missing things.
1.hybrid druids, human add to 2 abilities x add to str and wis.cast than wild shape and run in.2.multi class dips, like a monk
3.builds.
Thanks a lot for your reply 666bender, i really expecting to cover a lot of typing and you are right, in some build there are room to be a balanced Druid, I will cover a balanced build on the builds section
Also need to add multiclass or dips, and a lot of builds
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Looks good so far, I enjoy the formatting you have for it, and always glad to see someone using the 5 color system, although I'd suggest adding black for unratable things, as you'll find those every so often. I'll have more to say once I'm less unconscious, but for the moment it looks pretty solid, good work overall.
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Looks good so far, I enjoy the formatting you have for it, and always glad to see someone using the 5 color system, although I'd suggest adding black for unratable things, as you'll find those every so often. I'll have more to say once I'm less unconscious, but for the moment it looks pretty solid, good work overall.
Thanks a lot for your reply N. Jolly, to be honest you just help me with the dilemma of red color because I tend to leave behind all the red color feats or traits.
I think you highly underestimate the value of Moonlight Summoning, especially in campaigns like PFS where Confusion is a popular party-breaking spell.
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Looks good so far, I enjoy the formatting you have for it, and always glad to see someone using the 5 color system, although I'd suggest adding black for unratable things, as you'll find those every so often. I'll have more to say once I'm less unconscious, but for the moment it looks pretty solid, good work overall.Thanks a lot for your reply N. Jolly, to be honest you just help me with the dilemma of red color because I tend to leave behind all the red color feats or traits.
As I'm sure you're aware, I tend to kitchen sink things, throwing in just about everything. It's something I do, but for this guide, the only red you should need to include are 'trap' options, things that people think should be good but aren't. Aside from that, you don't need much red depending on how you go about things. But I'm out for the night, like I said I'll have relevant commentary tomorrow.
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I think you highly underestimate the value of Moonlight Summoning, especially in campaigns like PFS where Confusion is a popular party-breaking spell.
You are right, specially if the DM is trying to counter your summons. I just put it yellow because of the limited feats we have, but if you are building like a summoner this is green.
The feat formatting is really nice.
I would like to see more races, but then again I am the one who always picks some weird race in Star Wars stuff no one else knows exists.
Storm Druid has already had a mention, I'm going to like this guide if it helps me build one. ^_^
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Have to say I really like the formatting. Everything's really easy to read, which isn't always the case with guides. But I feel like the vital strike feats should be mentioned. For a class that usually has a hard time getting through DR, a high damage die form, strong jaw and vital strike can do wonders. Especially if you're playing a cave druid.
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Have to say I really like the formatting. Everything's really easy to read, which isn't always the case with guides. But I feel like the vital strike feats should be mentioned. For a class that usually has a hard time getting through DR, a high damage die form, strong jaw and vital strike can do wonders. Especially if you're playing a cave druid.
i really forgot about that, already added to the feat section and I will make a build around that, maybe with Cave or Goliath archetype
Thanks a lot Deighton
Marking for interest (also for reasons of necessary unconsciousness).
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I'll echo everyone on the formatting.
I think you overestimate combat castling pretty severely, though. A casting druid won't need it and a melee druid has better things to do when adjacent to enemies than casting a spell.
Other feats worthy of mention are dragon style (to charge reliably), improved/greater/rapid grapple (maintaining your grapple three times per round when you have rake or constrict can deal more damage than a normal full attack), and if you cover the player companion line rhino charge (readied action charge is very good with pounce).
I second your thoughts on Combat Casting, there are a lot of options for Druid and in retrospective there are more valuable options for feats for combat or casting Druid, I will make the changes as soon as possible
Indeed I need to cover all the maneuvers feats
Thanks for the guide! I've just recently gotten interested in Druids (I'm pretty new to the game as a whole), so I really appreciate the tips. Right now I'm playing an Aquatic Druid based on Aeron Greyjoy from Game of Thrones for a Pbp Northlands Saga game. He's kind of a switch hitter right now. He is largely melee with spear and shield, but also does some control casting and is following the Water domain for flavor and control spells. I'd love any advice you might have for him. This is his alias.
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I'll echo everyone on the formatting.
I think you overestimate combat castling pretty severely, though. A casting druid won't need it and a melee druid has better things to do when adjacent to enemies than casting a spell.
Other feats worthy of mention are dragon style (to charge reliably), improved/greater/rapid grapple (maintaining your grapple three times per round when you have rake or constrict can deal more damage than a normal full attack), and if you cover the player companion line rhino charge (readied action charge is very good with pounce).
You are right Atarlost, you change my mind and yes there are a lot of options for a combat and caster Druid for evade casting during melee, also there are more valuable feats than combat casting
And also I need to make a deep dive on all the maneuvers feats
Metamagic feats:
I would not rate Flaring spell that high. Dazzle is not very impressive condition. In my opinion it is not worth the +1 to spell level. I'm not sure it would be worth it even at +0.
Burning spell is almost as bad, you cause x2 spells level of damage at the next round for the cost of 2 spell levels. For the same cost you could be casting empowered spell for +50% damage. Say you cast a 8d6 fireball. A burning fireball would cause 8d6+6 damage, average 34, empowered would cause 12d6, average 42.
Intensified spell I would only recommend if you get fire domain for burning hands and fireball, as most of the druid blast spells do not scale their damage by level.
Rime spell is indeed nice for the controller build, you are not around plants all the time after all.
Daze is always sweet, though costly. But a few dazing Ball lightnings can really ruin someones day.
If you are planning to include thoughts on multiclassing/prestige classing the Envoy of Balance is very interesting dip. The weakness of SNA is that the creatures lack the templates that SM gives them. This means no smite and weaker defenses. Well, the 2nd level ability Endowment, Planar parity grants your summons the counterpoised template which is pretty sweet, giving your summons some more bite so to speak.
I really hope you will invest some time to explore some multiclass options, there are bound to be some sweet combos :)
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Metamagic feats:
I would not rate Flaring spell that high. Dazzle is not very impressive condition. In my opinion it is not worth the +1 to spell level. I'm not sure it would be worth it even at +0.
Burning spell is almost as bad, you cause x2 spells level of damage at the next round for the cost of 2 spell levels. For the same cost you could be casting empowered spell for +50% damage. Say you cast a 8d6 fireball. A burning fireball would cause 8d6+6 damage, average 34, empowered would cause 12d6, average 42.
Intensified spell I would only recommend if you get fire domain for burning hands and fireball, as most of the druid blast spells do not scale their damage by level.
Rime spell is indeed nice for the controller build, you are not around plants all the time after all.
Daze is always sweet, though costly. But a few dazing Ball lightnings can really ruin someones day.If you are planning to include thoughts on multiclassing/prestige classing the Envoy of Balance is very interesting dip. The weakness of SNA is that the creatures lack the templates that SM gives them. This means no smite and weaker defenses. Well, the 2nd level ability Endowment, Planar parity grants your summons the counterpoised template which is pretty sweet, giving your summons some more bite so to speak.
I really hope you will invest some time to explore some multiclass options, there are bound to be some sweet combos :)
Thanks for your suggestions WagnerSika, I already make some changes to the guide and specially with metamagic
One point that I need to address is the multiclass for Druid, i just want to finish the guide and then make dive on spells, multiclassing and class dip
Thanks a lot for you comments
Looking good!
For the trait section I submit Magical knack which is really useful if planning to multiclass.
For the summoning feats Versatile Summon Natures ally could be interesting.
I really like that you have included links to specific guides at the relevant parts of your guide!
Envoy of Balance is kind of expensive in that it requires you to take a cleric level and two feats you really don't want on a feat starved class.
If you are planning to include thoughts on multiclassing/prestige classing the Envoy of Balance is very interesting dip.
Why would you need a cleric level?
You only need one of the required feats, and you will probably have it if you are a caster druid, namely Augment summoning.Augment Summoning, Improved Counterspell, or Versatile Channeler.
Granted, the class does not offer much to a druid after 3rd level.
Hello fellow lurker :D
Just wanted to say I really enjoy the layout for your guide thus far. It makes it very easy to read and I might use this style to inspire my own guide that I'm working on! Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing the final product!
Requirements are usually ands. It's not horrible as an or.
You'd need the cleric level to get channeling. Or necromancer, but cleric is less bad than necromancer for a druid.
Yes, they are usually 'ands' but in this case it clearly says 'or'. My quote is from d20pfsrd.
I am not quite sure if you agree that cleric is not required, but needed IF you want channeling, in which case ignore the following :)
If you do say that channeling is a requirement, read on:
Now correct me if I have totally misinterpreted this, as english is not my first language, but I have always understood that, if you have a list separated with commas and ending with 'or', all commas should be interpreted as 'or'. So, Augment Summoning or Improved Counterspell or Versatile Channeler.
Even if the list should be read as 'AS and IC or VC' you still should not need Versatile Channeler and therefore you do not need channeling at all.
To qualify to for this prestige class, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Alignment: Neutral.
Feats: Augment Summoning, Improved Counterspell, or Versatile Channeler.
Skills: Knowledge (planes) 5 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level spells.
Special: If the character gains spells from a deity, this deity's alignment must be neutral and it must be able to grant followers the ability to channel both positive and negative energy.
I do not see anything referring to channeling than the Versatile Channeler feat and the fact that the _deity_ must be able to grant both forms of channeling, nothing is said about the character being able to use channeling him/herself.
Nice guide, very nice layout.
One thing, though:
WHY all the hate for the blight druid?
It's not just your guide, mind you.
Everyone seems to think miasma makes the archetype unplayable. Why? You get a save every round and it makes you immune to miasma for 24 hours. Your party will be immune before breakfast is ready.
Sure, social interactions are difficult with miasma. But druids suck at those anyway. And nobody seems to think a fighter with int and cha 7 has any problems.
So, with miasma being not all that bad, the archetype is completely awesome. You get immunity to sicken and nauseated, debuff anyone who stands near you (which is great for both casting and melee) and those who strike you will probably be inflicted with some nasty disease.
And you get access to the darkness domain, which is great. Summon 1d3 shadows? Yes please! Have you checked how many high CR creatures are all but helpless against incorporeal attackers? Blindness, Shadow Conjuration and Greater Shadow Evocation are very nice spells as well. And you can give your whole party Blur against a BBEG with a single touch attack.
Great choice of photos for the guide too!
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Nice guide, very nice layout.
One thing, though:
WHY all the hate for the blight druid?
It's not just your guide, mind you.
Everyone seems to think miasma makes the archetype unplayable. Why? You get a save every round and it makes you immune to miasma for 24 hours. Your party will be immune before breakfast is ready.
Sure, social interactions are difficult with miasma. But druids suck at those anyway. And nobody seems to think a fighter with int and cha 7 has any problems.So, with miasma being not all that bad, the archetype is completely awesome. You get immunity to sicken and nauseated, debuff anyone who stands near you (which is great for both casting and melee) and those who strike you will probably be inflicted with some nasty disease.
And you get access to the darkness domain, which is great. Summon 1d3 shadows? Yes please! Have you checked how many high CR creatures are all but helpless against incorporeal attackers? Blindness, Shadow Conjuration and Greater Shadow Evocation are very nice spells as well. And you can give your whole party Blur against a BBEG with a single touch attack.
I just think that is very difficult to have a normal interaction or social play with Miasma, also is a thing that always will be present on any kind of social interaction, this bothers me a lot because you can't ignore this, is like having a normal party with a guy covered in filth or poo around you, it simply kills a lot of epic moments. I see this archetype for a NPC, don't get me wrong, they have a lot good things but in my mind I can't imagine this thing interfering on all of the social encounters
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Hello fellow lurker :D
Just wanted to say I really enjoy the layout for your guide thus far. It makes it very easy to read and I might use this style to inspire my own guide that I'm working on! Keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing the final product!
Thanks for your comments MoggZero, I'll keep writing and when the time is right invite us to see your guide
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I made some changes to the guide and im trying to keep writing as fast as I can in order to present the finished product asap
Here are some things that I added since the last week
-An animal companion mini guide
-Redo all of the Nature Bond section
-Added some feats according to your sugestions
-Added 7 sample builds and expect more to come
-Enabled the comments and suggestion button on google docs to look at all of your feedback
There are lots of things pending to do like
-Spells
-Domains
-More sample builds
-Multiclassing and dipping
Hope you guys are enjoying the guide and Im glad to hear from your comments and suggestions to improve this guide
This is a solid guide, the formatting is very well done.
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Solid guide. You're doing a great job with it.
That said, I think Urban Druid should be blue instead of green. It has the ability to spontaneously cast domain spells, and the unique domain access makes this very useful. Nobility Domain grants Divine Favor, one of the best low level combat buffs in the game, and leadership to make up for your missing companion.
A Thousand Faces at level 6 is phenomenal. Not only can you infiltrate any humanoid community, it's also a solid combat polymorph form, with several forms with three natural attacks, and a strong utility form with several forms with a swim speed and therefore the ability to breath water.
Complete immunity to charm and compusion effects is also fantastic.
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Your guide is slowly getting amazing.
Here are a few tips I like.
Cave can add tremor sense, on a fly by attack or spring attack , as earth elemental, you can enter the ground and be safe.
Lion has super summon , glory domain for even better buffs .
Hi there 666bender, thanks a lot for this tips
You are right, theres literally a lot of options for any Druid, as you mentioned Tremorsense is a great additional tool.
I believe that I need to add a mini guide for Druid domains and I will try to make a sample build as Lion Shaman
Question, how do you have acces to Glory domain?
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I have a halfling [yes, halfling] Saurian Shaman Druid, with an Ankylosaurus as his companion.
I've been looking for ways to make him a feasible character. Plan was to get him the Dervish Dancer route taking on enemies as his dino tanks.
I don't really plan on him doing mounted combat.
I'm hoping this guide can help me build up this character
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Nice guide, very nice layout.
One thing, though:
WHY all the hate for the blight druid?
It's not just your guide, mind you.
Everyone seems to think miasma makes the archetype unplayable. Why? You get a save every round and it makes you immune to miasma for 24 hours. Your party will be immune before breakfast is ready.
Sure, social interactions are difficult with miasma. But druids suck at those anyway. And nobody seems to think a fighter with int and cha 7 has any problems.So, with miasma being not all that bad, the archetype is completely awesome. You get immunity to sicken and nauseated, debuff anyone who stands near you (which is great for both casting and melee) and those who strike you will probably be inflicted with some nasty disease.
And you get access to the darkness domain, which is great. Summon 1d3 shadows? Yes please! Have you checked how many high CR creatures are all but helpless against incorporeal attackers? Blindness, Shadow Conjuration and Greater Shadow Evocation are very nice spells as well. And you can give your whole party Blur against a BBEG with a single touch attack.
After this post I fell intrigued with the idea of making a Blight Druid, I am already making an example os our honor
i will toy around to build a sample of a good Blight Druid and post it under the samples information
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Some fun ideas for blight druids based on my PFS Blight Druid:
Whirlwind plus Miasma plus Powerful Shape = Pick them up in a whirlwind and sicken them when they try to get out with a -4 to their saves.
Immune to Disease plus Delay Poison plus Greater Neutralize Poison plus Extend Rod, Immune to disease and poison.
Flawed Scarlet and Green Cabochon Ioun Stone get endurance plus immunity to fatigue and exhausted at level 9 for 8000 gp (makes you sickened/nauseated instead oh immune to those)
Elemental Shape plus Natural spell makes you immune to bleed, sneak attack and critical hits at level 10. Add disease, poison (delay poison) sickened, nauseated exhausted fatigued to make a character that really annoys the GM.
Can grab lots of fun Domains, Darkness is awesome, want to have access to animate dead on a druid, go for it. Grab Eagle Domain for Evasion if you want it. Consider Vermin domain, get a greensting scorpion familiar for the +4 initiative and vomit swarm plus swarmskin at level 9 (oh and for fun cast it on your scorpion familiar and be running around with an army ant swarm for the day, hopefully a cleric in the party to keep it healed) oh and tremor sense for running around underground as an earth elemental caster.
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Combat builds: With Stone Call you can make their surroundings a difficult terrain, Wild Shape as a Wolf for trip or if you are 7th level as a Ankylosaurus for his stun ability.
I don't think you actually get the Stun(Ex) ability with wildshape as it is not mentioned in Beastshape. Summoned ankylosauruses work though but you get that at 9th level.
I just realized your animal companion gets the stun at level 7! Did you mean that?|
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Combat builds: With Stone Call you can make their surroundings a difficult terrain, Wild Shape as a Wolf for trip or if you are 7th level as a Ankylosaurus for his stun ability.I don't think you actually get the Stun(Ex) ability with wildshape as it is not mentioned in Beastshape. Summoned ankylosauruses work though but you get that at 9th level.
I just realized your animal companion gets the stun at level 7! Did you mean that?
Sorry bout that, I tried to mean that but is very situational to put it as a control mechanics so I deleted that part
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I have a halfling [yes, halfling] Saurian Shaman Druid, with an Ankylosaurus as his companion.
I've been looking for ways to make him a feasible character. Plan was to get him the Dervish Dancer route taking on enemies as his dino tanks.I don't really plan on him doing mounted combat.
I'm hoping this guide can help me build up this character
This is by far one of the most complicated concept I heard, one of the strengths of the Saurian Shamans is the ability to summon dinosaurs as a standard action by 5th level, so you need to take advantage on that, choose feats like Spell Focus Conjuration and Augment Summoning
If you are going the Dervish Dancer route you will have a hard time because wild shape makes it obsolete, at least from damage perspective
What other things you want to do with this guy?
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I have a halfling [yes, halfling] Saurian Shaman Druid, with an Ankylosaurus as his companion.
I've been looking for ways to make him a feasible character. Plan was to get him the Dervish Dancer route taking on enemies as his dino tanks.I don't really plan on him doing mounted combat.
I'm hoping this guide can help me build up this character
This maybe help you as a base
Race: Halfling
Alternate Racial Trait: Fleet of Foot
Favored Class Bonus: +1 Hit Point
Traits: Helpful and Dangerously Curious
Deity: Sarenrae
Stats: 8 STR 18 DEX 13 CON 10 INT 14 WIS 14 CHA
I can think this guy as a summoner con can be in melee, and with Dangerously Curious can cast spells like Enlarge Person, Lead Blade, etc.
1 Swashbuckler - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
2 Druid - Nature Bond (Animal Companion)
3 Druid - Dervish Dance, Totem Transformation (Saurian's Scales)
4 Druid - +1 Constitution
5 Druid - Augment Summoning
6 Druid -
7 Druid - Natural Spell
8 Druid - +1 Dexterity
From here you should decide wich path to follow:
For a more combat build you can choose Extra Panache, Toughness,Dirty Fightning, etc.
If you want to focus on wild shape you could go Powerful Shape, Toughness, Planar Wild Shape, etc.
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I have a halfling [yes, halfling] Saurian Shaman Druid, with an Ankylosaurus as his companion.
I've been looking for ways to make him a feasible character. Plan was to get him the Dervish Dancer route taking on enemies as his dino tanks.I don't really plan on him doing mounted combat.
I'm hoping this guide can help me build up this character
This maybe help you as a base
Race: Halfling
Alternate Racial Trait: Fleet of Foot
Favored Class Bonus: +1 Hit Point
Traits: Helpful and Dangerously Curious
Deity: Sarenrae
Stats: 8 STR 18 DEX 13 CON 10 INT 14 WIS 14 CHAI can think this guy as a summoner con can be in melee, and with Dangerously Curious can cast spells like Enlarge Person, Lead Blade, etc.
1 Swashbuckler - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
2 Druid - Nature Bond (Animal Companion)
3 Druid - Dervish Dance, Totem Transformation (Saurian's Scales)
4 Druid - +1 Constitution
5 Druid - Augment Summoning
6 Druid -
7 Druid - Natural Spell
8 Druid - +1 DexterityFrom here you should decide wich path to follow:
For a more combat build you can choose Extra Panache, Toughness,Dirty Fightning, etc.
If you want to focus on wild shape you could go Powerful Shape, Toughness, Planar Wild Shape, etc.
Why Swashbuckler? The Whirling Dervish archetype would be nice- Finesse with a Scimitar, but the second ability that alters the panache would be a hinderance.
Also, with the character's backstory- driven out of the Mwangi Expanse by Goblins/Kobolds- i really don't see him as worshipper of Sarenrae.He is a PFS character, and has been played past lvl 2 so he'd have to be retrained.
His Stats are 13/16/12/13/15/9 [dumped charisma].
I may just go the Wild Shape route.
I do appreciate the advice.