I got to watching the Primitive Technology channel on YouTue (again) and I found myself wondering how one would run a primitive campaign. For example, with far more restricted magic, and classes and weapons etc.
So, how would you do it? What would you restrict? Would you use any homebrewed or 3rd party classes/material?
Personally, my thoughts lead me to restrict many classes from the game. For example, say, Ranger, Barbarian and Kineticist might fit well into a more primitive campaign, while restricting access to pretty much all of the caster classes. One half-thought idea for those who really want magic, is that the only spell list/progresson available, is from the Adept class. So you can play an Oracle, or Wizard, or Magus, but you use the Adept spell list. Bloodlines or Domains or other class features that add bonus spells can draw from the original spell list, but otherwise, you only have access to the Adept spells.
Anyway, how would you do it?
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I likely wouldn't do this. Pathfinder doesn't play well with low magic campaigns. Not to say that I wouldn't try a primitive setting, but I would likely change worship to more of a mysticism. Use ancient worship or spirits to explain abilities. As for wizards, or arcanists, give them more of a shamanistic type feel, maybe replace spellbook with similar practice that doesn't require writing. Maybe a totem similar to the witch's familiar. And just allow sorcerers as is.
Then change technology to either stone age or bronze age, depending on what feel you're going for. Also, use the automatic bonus progression from Pathfinder Unchained. Really, the only thing you should have to ban is the gunslinger, because even crossbows likely won't have been made invented by this point.
I'm not saying you can't make a low magic game work, but honestly, I don't think it's worth the effort.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I've been planning a post-Earthfall Kingmaker-style campaign for my group, and put together some rules which overlay classes / equipment / spell access / kingdom building rules with a technology tree (cribbed from Civilization).
Basically, pick the technologies you want active and that sets the classes, equipment and spell levels available. The stuff relevant to you starts at about page 12. Tech tree is on the final page.
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The primitive combat rules from Ultimate Combat are supremely useful here, although they may even be higher tech than you're looking for. Armor of any sort would be a huge endeavor to create and maintain, and anything beyond simple weapons may well be out of your players' grasp initially. A subsystem representing equipment wear would likely be highly useful (though I don't know of any offhand). The world is still magical, though, so the players may find minor artifacts like mossy stone fullplate that never degrades or an obsidian greatsword as hard and sharp as steel.
Caster-wise, I'd recommend drastically slashing the available spell lists to only a tiny number of the simplest spells and making the gathering of components (even simple ones) a notable task (need bat guano for a fireball? Time to go spelunking). Both of these limitations contribute to the theme: the world hasn't benefited from the millenia of magical research that we're used to, and there's no store from which to buy a spell component pouch. Using the adept list is definitely a great starting point.
As a huge fan of that channel, I wish you all the best of luck.
I would probably restrict the more studied classes. Sorcerers, oracles, shamans, skalds would be fine but wizards, clerics and similar classes wouldn't be available.
Casting is a tricky topic here. I have been trying to figure this myself and I decided that even getting magic should be a great challenge in itself (all casters must therefore start with a lvl or 2 in another class before they discover the route to power. Also they may well be the first to discover a type of magic, and will suffer a spell chance penalty until he grows accustomed to his spells (done every time he gains a new spell lvl). Failure leads to the wild magic chart...
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Going primitive technology is easy enough. Just drop Fighter as a Class, make Cavaliers take Beast Rider, and figure something to give
Paladins in exchange for Heavy Armor Proficiency. Then use the rules in Ultimate Combat for non-metal weapons and armor.
For magic, you can quickly eliminate any Class with a spell book. Beyond that, if you really want low magic, I'd suggest not allowing 9-level casters in general. That really restricts magic in several ways without imbalancing the game too much.
I'm not sure I'd do the latter, but it's a very valid route to take.
We did this once, and banned classes similar to how you suggested. No wizard, but sorcerer and witch were ok, no clerics or paladins, but oracles were fine. I think bards got nixed, alchemists for sure. No fighters, unless you took it later from a martial full bab class, post level 4 I think? Also no metal armors, metal weapons were rare and almost exclusively made by dwarves. Also many racial prejudices didn't exist yet, so the half orc got on fine with the rest.
This also changed the world later when we time jumped to our descendants. Of note, my dwarf saved some minotaurs from slavery, so it was almost unheard of to have minotaur slaves, and the dwarf and minotaur royalty were protected by each other. Only way into the minotaur palace is a series of hidden Stone doors. Only way into dwarf palace was through a labyrinth.
The biggest change is probably going to be an absence of money, shops, fortified towns, indeed towns larger than very small. The economy becomes strictly barter-only. Formalized religion, magic schools, theory of the planes, bardic knowledge, etc etc etc, would be replaced by primitive myths, spirits, shamanistic beliefs, and stories about what is over the next hill. Social units being smaller would mean if you travel a relatively short distance, there is a tribe that likely isn't too friendly with yours. Xenophobia is the baseline. Winter weighs heavily on everyone's minds.
As for classes, I would drop everything but barbarians, rangers, fighters, rogues, shamans, sorcerers, witches, oracles. Everyone has a breadth of experience, though, giving them a free level of NPC classes every so often. For skills, Knowledges and other studious things go out the door, Disable Device and such are no-go. However, everyone gets a few more skill points. Survival becomes a necessary skill for everyone. Spell lists are slashed, with few formalized spells remaining, i.e. only the most iconic ones.
I would eliminate spellbooks, replace wizard's bonus Scribe Scroll feat with Spell Mastery, and strongly suggest they take Spell Mastery for all their other feats (at least after 1st level).
Every other class (except gunslinger, of course) would be allowed. I've found it's better to let players "self-censor" their classes in variant campaigns. They either pick classes that match the campaign, or come up with very very cool explanations for why their class fits.
Remember, just because their technology is primitive, it doesn't mean folk are less intelligent than the more technologically advanced societies. Indeed, it takes a lot of smarts to survive with just sharp sticks and knapped stone tools. Especially if you have to make everything you own yourself.
For magic, you can quickly eliminate any Class with a spell book.
There's an app (archetype) for that.
Spirit Whisperer Wizard
Eldritch Scion Magus
Unlettered Arcanist
I don't know of one for Alchemist, though.
Why does everyone seem to think that primitive has to mean low magic? I can understand not allowing wizards and other spell casters with spell books, but other types of casters can work just fine. Most primitive societies see magic as a natural part of the world. In fact many primitive societies see magic as being everywhere. It seems the more primitive the society the more they believe in magic. It’s when societies start becoming civilized that they stop believing in magic.
I could see a primitive campaign where magic is actually more common than normal. Divine casters would probably be druids, oracles and shamans. Arcane casters would tend to be bards, sorcerers, and witches. Rangers, paladins and bloodragers would be also common. Maybe the reason technology has not progressed is because there is less need for it. Anyone who wants to become powerful may need to have magic.
Any group that lacks spell casters are at a severe disadvantage and will probably be killed off, or enslaved by a group with more magical muscle. Magic items would for the most part be rare especially weapons and armor. Caster focused items could be more common especially wands, and staves.
Even wizards can work, since there are archetypes that swap out spellbook for other things and there are things like those goblin spellbooks that just use pictures and the implication that you can teach a wizard a spell with I think a day of teaching without a spellbook from the goblin spellbook rules.
I've actually got a primative setting. Since this was before automatic bonus progression, I had magic stores replaced by giving offerings to gods and getting blessings.
The biggest change is probably going to be an absence of money, shops, fortified towns, indeed towns larger than very small. The economy becomes strictly barter-only. Formalized religion, magic schools, theory of the planes, bardic knowledge, etc etc etc, would be replaced by primitive myths, spirits, shamanistic beliefs, and stories about what is over the next hill. Social units being smaller would mean if you travel a relatively short distance, there is a tribe that likely isn't too friendly with yours. Xenophobia is the baseline. Winter weighs heavily on everyone's minds.
As for classes, I would drop everything but barbarians, rangers, fighters, rogues, shamans, sorcerers, witches, oracles. Everyone has a breadth of experience, though, giving them a free level of NPC classes every so often. For skills, Knowledges and other studious things go out the door, Disable Device and such are no-go. However, everyone gets a few more skill points. Survival becomes a necessary skill for everyone. Spell lists are slashed, with few formalized spells remaining, i.e. only the most iconic ones.
In regards to the barter economy for early age, it actually wasn't very common in the early days. Many people theorize that people had more of a favor/debt economy, where you do something for someone with the hope that they repay your favor to them. This would be great of a stone age style game. If you are doing Bronze Age, there's still evidence of currency, but it's generally used for big transactions and was based on cattle and later grain standard.
Watching Crash Course on YouTube is really good for historical stuff. I'd definitely suggest taking a look.
As for magic, I went the opposite way and make magic more common, but way more dangerous and all casters have Wild Magic rolls. I also have the wilderness as a naturally magic, almost Feywild meets Wonderland area that gets stronger and more dangerous with the presence of magic and casters.
Following archetypes could be useful:
Personally, I see magic as having been less developed. So less spell access. People would not have as much time to devote to studying magicc due to a lack of developed society, so less magic has been created.
Magic would be more unique and terrifying as many spells become personal creations. For example, there might be only one person alive who knows black tentacles, because, in essence, he created the spell. This is also why I would push the Kineticist as being far more common than actual casters.
The more I think about it an all magic primitive campaign sounds like a lot of fun. Here is what I am thinking. Alchemist, Arcanist, Cavalier Fighter, Magus, Slayer and Wizard would be severely limited. The purely mundane classes could be allowed with an archetype that gives some sort of mystic ability. The Arcanist, Alchemist and Wizard don’t really fit but with the right modification could be made to work, but I would probably not allow them unless the player had a good background that fits the campaign. If someone wanted to play a Rogue I would suggest a Ninja instead as their Ki pool is already magic. The Investigator, Samurai and Swashbuckler would not fit so would be off the table.
Ranger would become the most common marital class. Druids would also be common and may even be the dominant religion. Other than druids spontaneous casters would outnumber prepared casters. All gods would be tribal, with each tribe having its own god.
ABP would obviously be used. But most other permanent magic items would be rare. Charged items on the other hand would be fine and maybe even more common.
Magic creature are going to be a lot more common, and many mundane creatures may have added abilities.
Personally, I see magic as having been less developed. So less spell access. People would not have as much time to devote to studying magicc due to a lack of developed society, so less magic has been created.
Magic would be more unique and terrifying as many spells become personal creations. For example, there might be only one person alive who knows black tentacles, because, in essence, he created the spell. This is also why I would push the Kineticist as being far more common than actual casters.
You are associating magic with science, and thinking in terms of Wizards and clerics. While that works with some classes it does not work with all classes. Sorcerers don’t really study they simply have an inborn ability that other people don’t. Oracles study even less they often don’t even want their abilities but have them anyways. Rangers and druids draw their power from nature itself which in a primitive campaign is always present.
i recommend a book called Stonehenge by Bernard Cornwall (of Sharpe fame) for the fictionalisation of a primative society. I highly recommend it.
The timeline is off slightly but some form of writing isn't impossible. Perhaps a sect of casters record their spells on henge stones in Ogham - a language of slashed lines and dots?
Also just because the campaign is primitive doesn't mean everyone in it has to be? Maybe your primitive society is built on the bones of a more technological one. Maybe a neighbouring kingdom isn't primitive - as in the film 10,000 BC
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Quick stuff:
1.) look into using the primative human Paizo produced about a year ago for the gauntlet charity event.
2.) make all weapons out of bone, stone, and obsidian.
3.) reduce the weapons and armor list significantly. Weapons should be focused on spears, clubs, axes, and darts while armors shouldn't really be anything you can't make out of the above materials, leather, or wood. Breastplates should be a rare find crafted from massive predators while hide and leathers should likely be the norm.
4.) Worry less about magic and more about access. If you are newer to the game and don't want to deal with a ton of stuff focus on Core only. Realize also if you are talking pre literate then you shouldn't have any scrolls floating around or you need to reinterpret what scrolls and spellbooks are. Maybe they are strips of bark with hand prints sprayed on them or pictures of animals being hunted. Maybe spellbooks are these giant murals painted on a wizards home cave making them hard to destroy but impossible to move.
5.) Realize that just about every class can work in this setting with a little flex: It might sound odd but by and large most classes should be able to fit here. Wizards paint murals on walls to hold their spells, occultists' channel their mysterious power through old relics they collect in their travels, alchemists are shamans who create various tonics and poultices to heal their families, and samurai are warriors who ride mammoths across the plains practicing their craft with spears against enemies of the tribe. Even gunslingers could work! Picture them as speakers of flames, mixing dung and fire and lighting them inside tubes carved of dragon bone, the only substance known that can handle the heat and pressure. Now might some be rare or odd? Yes! But remember that your players are PCs, they are supposed to be the rare and odd people.
6.) Limit bows! Realize that though bows are a thing in prehistory if you are going back to caveman they are some of the most advanced weapons of their time and as such are scarce, difficult to use, and difficult to make. Limit players access to these weapons and encourage more thrown weapon and atlatl builds. This should help ensure that your spear throwers don't feel outclassed and that when an archer does show up they are terrifying. Also remember that limit on sales should extend even to things like arrows. Making arrows that are flight worthy is not an easy task if you've never been taught and as such even finding ammunition in settlements that lack archers should be difficult, leaving your PCs to ration and/or make their own. Also they break easy.
there are a few off the top of my head. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask ^-^.
Definitely agree with Wizards and Clerics being really limited, maybe even non existent in a Stone Age setting. There aren't any city states at this point because there hasn't been an agricultural revolution. Although story wise, it would be cool to see a city state that has conquered agriculture and fire and is developing these wizard spells that you see nowadays.
Quick stuff:
1.) look into using the primative human Paizo produced about a year ago for the gauntlet charity event.
2.) make all weapons out of bone, stone, and obsidian.
3.) reduce the weapons and armor list significantly. Weapons should be focused on spears, clubs, axes, and darts while armors shouldn't really be anything you can't make out of the above materials, leather, or wood. Breastplates should be a rare find crafted from massive predators while hide and leathers should likely be the norm.
4.) Worry less about magic and more about access. If you are newer to the game and don't want to deal with a ton of stuff focus on Core only. Realize also if you are talking pre literate then you shouldn't have any scrolls floating around or you need to reinterpret what scrolls and spellbooks are. Maybe they are strips of bark with hand prints sprayed on them or pictures of animals being hunted. Maybe spellbooks are these giant murals painted on a wizards home cave making them hard to destroy but impossible to move.
5.) Realize that just about every class can work in this setting with a little flex: It might sound odd but by and large most classes should be able to fit here. Wizards paint murals on walls to hold their spells, occultists' channel their mysterious power through old relics they collect in their travels, alchemists are shamans who create various tonics and poultices to heal their families, and samurai are warriors who ride mammoths across the plains practicing their craft with spears against enemies of the tribe. Even gunslingers could work! Picture them as speakers of flames, mixing dung and fire and lighting them inside tubes carved of dragon bone, the only substance known that can handle the heat and pressure. Now might some be rare or odd? Yes! But remember that your players are PCs, they are supposed to be the rare and odd people.
6.) Limit bows! Realize that though bows are a thing in prehistory if you are going back to caveman they are some of the most advanced weapons of...
On the issue of bows, they weren't that rare. Certainly no composite bows, but many hunter gatherer societies had bows along with javelins and atlatls and slings.
Maybe keep it to short bows rather than longbows.
Yeah, IIRC, longbows weren’t a thing until the 13th century or so. And crossbows were a bronze-age thing. So prolly just short-bows in the stone-age.
I could see Clerics as an organized religious tribe. I could also see Gods as way more accessible and personally involved, like how Zeus was just constantly "consorting" with humans
I would definitely play Bloodlines WAY up. This is a time where your sorcerer probably actually knows their fey/elemental/Celestial/Aquan/etc. grandparent or great-grandparent. No big societies means only your small tribe has to be "cool" with whatever your weird extra-planar deal is.
Why does everyone seem to think that primitive has to mean low magic?
Presumably because they want the campaign to be a more gritty survival campaign with fewer resources and tricks available.
Part of it is that. Part of it is lack of writing, an alphabet, agriculture, and a city state society, which would make it difficult for wizards or really anyone that uses spell research and spell books to exist. Part of it is flavor. I could see wizards in a Bronze Age era or beyond. But I think wizards and magi and arcanists might be the three scholarly classes I couldn't see fitting in the story of hunter gathering ancient men and women in a more primeval age.
I'd also say the same for classes depending on more ecclesiastic, organized religions, like the cleric or inquisitor.
I see it that magic is less formalized or structured and so classes that don't focus as much on that are more likely.
A campaign like this might be a good one to try elements of magic or words of power.
I see it that magic is less formalized or structured and so classes that don't focus as much on that are more likely.
A campaign like this might be a good one to try elements of magic or words of power.
There is no such thing as a good campaign for the broken exploitable mess that is words of power.
I'm actually trying to design a short, primitive (Neanderthal) campaign, using the Epic 6 Pathfinder rules (P6). I've decided to limit the classes and archetypes to non-reading, non-metal-focused ones, but magic other than that requiring writing (or similar recorded thoughts, like kipu) is fine. I wanted to try introducing "new" classes like the wizard later in the game, but that probably won't work very well, so... ban for PCs. Only humans available as race, but that's a setting decision. Curtail equipment a lot, too. NPCs can still have some "forbidden" things for plot reasons, though. More shenanigans when they fall into the PC's hands!
If anyone else has tried this idea in an actual campaign, I'd love to hear how it went, and what worked and what didn't. Especially if you used words of power/3pp.
I played in a 3.0 Elements of Magic campaign, and we weren't THAT primitive (we thought swords were kind of high-tech, but our party blacksmith could make them), but using Elements of Magic meant the non-spellcasters didn't know a lot (or anything) about the rules of magic, which was just about perfect. It made magic really wondrous. We couldn't meta-game magic stuff because we didn't know enough about the rules to do so. Granted, I had to purposely keep myself ignorant (by not reading the Elements of Magic rules), but in this case, ignorance WAS bliss.
Part of it is lack of writing, an alphabet, agriculture, and a city state society, which would make it difficult for wizards or really anyone that uses spell research and spell books to exist.
*Looks at goblin spellbook rules, which is for a culture that lacks writing, an alphabet (probably), agriculture, and a city state society*
Basically.... You'd probably end up use cave paintings as spellbooks. Also if research is an issue, you can have the discovery of spells actually be things taught by outsiders and aberrations.
Part of it is lack of writing, an alphabet, agriculture, and a city state society, which would make it difficult for wizards or really anyone that uses spell research and spell books to exist.*Looks at goblin spellbook rules, which is for a culture that lacks writing, an alphabet (probably), agriculture, and a city state society*
Basically.... You'd probably end up use cave paintings as spellbooks. Also if research is an issue, you can have the discovery of spells actually be things taught by outsiders and aberrations.
But why force wizards into the setting if you don't want to, wizard is hardly the only arcane caster with 9th level spells.
Ultimately it comes down to the feel the GM wants for the campaign, there is no "right" answer.
I would ban wizards and paladins and reduce magic for the other classes by one step (4th csters lose magic, 6th casters become 4th and 9th casters become 6th level casters)
No spell component pouches (if you wnt to cast it you need the components) but add a creation spell that can create substitute components suitable for every spell (with the right cost).
But why force wizards into the setting if you don't want to
You don't have to, I'm merely showing that the reasons I quoted are not accurate justification to not have wizards in the setting, since none of those things are actually a problem for wizards.
I think it's best to show that something doesn't have to be an issue so GM's can have it in their settings if they want to but they do not have to, rather than "no, you shouldn't put this in your setting because of x, y, and z" when x, y, and z aren't correct.
But why force wizards into the setting if you don't want toYou don't have to, I'm merely showing that the reasons I quoted are not accurate justification to not have wizards in the setting, since none of those things are actually a problem for wizards.
I think it's best to show that something doesn't have to be an issue so GM's can have it in their settings if they want to but they do not have to, rather than "no, you shouldn't put this in your setting because of x, y, and z" when x, y, and z aren't correct.
Which is why I also said there is no "right" answer just the answer for the campaign the GM wants to run.
Words of power system.
Simple weapons.
Cull skill lists.
Limit classes.
I ran Giantslayer book one in the bronze age.
Which is why I also said there is no "right" answer just the answer for the campaign the GM wants to run.
And I didn't argue with that.
Part of it is lack of writing, an alphabet, agriculture, and a city state society, which would make it difficult for wizards or really anyone that uses spell research and spell books to exist.*Looks at goblin spellbook rules, which is for a culture that lacks writing, an alphabet (probably), agriculture, and a city state society*
Basically.... You'd probably end up use cave paintings as spellbooks. Also if research is an issue, you can have the discovery of spells actually be things taught by outsiders and aberrations.
I feel the witch class would fit that role of gaining spells from an outside r our aberration.
I would restrict armor and shields to leather armor and hide armor, light and heavy wooden shields. Maybe a feat to gain Unarmored Defense, where you get your choice of your Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier to your AC.
I would specify what Craft and Profession skills were available: flint knapping, wood working, stone construction, leather working, trap making, general hearthcraft (cooking, clothing, rope making, waterskin making, basketweaving, cooking, butchering, etc.), and also specify what skill or combination of skills are needed to make each available item.
Obviously, Survival is going to be key, and Perception and Stealth might be even more important than normal (even regular animals are going to bigger threats, also bigger animals will be huger threats).
I imagine fertility goddesses blessing orchards and kept animals will be important, as well as gods of revelry that teach the devoted the arts of fermentation.
You restrict casting classes because your martial classes are going to be hurting for magic items and weapons that don't break. Without a big 6 your classes will struggle against the bestiary, but your full caster is mostly unimpeded by the setting - which is a very bad thing.
That might be the point of such a campaign. Or you could adjust what level you fight things at, perhaps focusing more on encounters with multiple enemies rather than one big creature.
Who says they have to be able to fight the bestiary? The lore for practically every campaign setting in existence has the more physically or magically powerful races (dragons, giants, aboleth, ogres, cyclopes etc) utterly dominating the 0-HD player races until they unlocked enough magic to fight back. Which fits right in with my personal belief that magic should be very limited. Hence the Adept spelllist unless a class feature expands it. One nice side effect of this is that every caster, arcane or divine, gains access to healing spells.
This means creatures like dragons or hydra or demons are a lot more dangerous because of the lack of magic and magical items. This is perfectly okay with me. I don't know if I'll ever get to run a campaign like this, but it sounds like it could be a lot of fun.
Who says they have to be able to fight the bestiary? The lore for practically every campaign setting in existence has the more physically or magically powerful races (dragons, giants, aboleth, ogres, cyclopes etc) utterly dominating the 0-HD player races until they unlocked enough magic to fight back. Which fits right in with my personal belief that magic should be very limited. Hence the Adept spelllist unless a class feature expands it. One nice side effect of this is that every caster, arcane or divine, gains access to healing spells.
This means creatures like dragons or hydra or demons are a lot more dangerous because of the lack of magic and magical items. This is perfectly okay with me. I don't know if I'll ever get to run a campaign like this, but it sounds like it could be a lot of fun.
So getting even a moderately powerful magic item would require the players to seek out a favorably inclined dragon, giant or outsider. Probably being a story arc in and of itself. Each such item would probably have a name and history that would become associated with it, which would also be really cool.
Dot.
Who says they have to be able to fight the bestiary? The lore for practically every campaign setting in existence has the more physically or magically powerful races (dragons, giants, aboleth, ogres, cyclopes etc) utterly dominating the 0-HD player races until they unlocked enough magic to fight back. Which fits right in with my personal belief that magic should be very limited. Hence the Adept spelllist unless a class feature expands it. One nice side effect of this is that every caster, arcane or divine, gains access to healing spells.
This means creatures like dragons or hydra or demons are a lot more dangerous because of the lack of magic and magical items. This is perfectly okay with me. I don't know if I'll ever get to run a campaign like this, but it sounds like it could be a lot of fun.
When running this, just be aware to make sure that the players understand this part. Tell them and encourage them to try creating tactics to deal with these monsters. With a limited set of options, you really need to be open to them about this and allow some crazy but innovative ways to deal with an encounter. Running away is always on the table of course, but if every encounter involves running away and you aren't running a Dr Who RPG, then it's going to get frustrating to your players.
When running this, just be aware to make sure that the players understand this part. Tell them and encourage them to try creating tactics to deal with these monsters. With a limited set of options, you really need to be open to them about this and allow some crazy but innovative ways to deal with an encounter. Running away is always on the table of course, but if every encounter involves running away and you aren't running a Dr Who RPG, then it's going to get frustrating to your players.Who says they have to be able to fight the bestiary? The lore for practically every campaign setting in existence has the more physically or magically powerful races (dragons, giants, aboleth, ogres, cyclopes etc) utterly dominating the 0-HD player races until they unlocked enough magic to fight back. Which fits right in with my personal belief that magic should be very limited. Hence the Adept spelllist unless a class feature expands it. One nice side effect of this is that every caster, arcane or divine, gains access to healing spells.
This means creatures like dragons or hydra or demons are a lot more dangerous because of the lack of magic and magical items. This is perfectly okay with me. I don't know if I'll ever get to run a campaign like this, but it sounds like it could be a lot of fun.
Informing the players ahead of time goes without saying. As for challenges, in a game like this, lower level monsters will likely get more screentime. Orcs and Goblins, for example, would remain a threat for far longer because of the lack of items/magic.
