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So I am currently in a bind, my rogue (I am the DM the rogue is a player) just got locked into a room with basically the mob. The rogue offers them 5gp to talk with him. I coming from older additions took this as an insult as the NPC but one of my players informed me after the session that 5gp is now similar to about 150gp in Pathfinder 1. Is this true? I know they went to a silver base now but is it really that extreme? Thanks for any help
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I'm pretty sure they aimed for about ten-to-one; how firmly they hit it varies. Here are half a dozen semi-random pieces of gear whose functions should be the same in each edition:
backpack 2 gp => 1 sp (20:1)
flint & steel 1 gp => 5 cp (20:1)
compass 10 gp => 1 gp (10:1)
chalk 1 cp => .1 cp (10:1)
week rations 35 sp => 4 sp (8.75:1, probably calculated at 10:1 (3.5 sp) then rounded)
crowbar 2 gp => 5 sp (4:1)
So there's a fair amount of latitude around that theoretical 10:1. The 30:1 your player suggests seems extreme to me, but certainly 5 gp in PF2 counting as ~50 gp by PF1 standards would be reasonable.
EDIT: Oops, I can't read, 10 chalk is 1 cp not 1 sp....
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Well, if you look at the earned income table a level 0 task gives 5 cp, and I think it's reasonable to assume your rank and file laborer is a level 0 character. So 5 gp is 100 times what a commoner might make in one day.
As an additional point of comparison, you can look at it in terms of what magic items cost close to 50 gp.
Persona Mask, Hat of the Magi, and Doubling Rings are all 50 gp. This is a pretty strong bribe for up to a level 3 character, IMO.
You can also look at, a level 3 character should have 500 gp in wealth (according to wealth by level). So that's 10% of what you should already have.
Seems pretty good to me.
Edit: Just realized this was 5gp not 50. My bad. Extrapolate from my methods to draw conclusions.
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The other thing is to look at it through the 'Earn Income' activity. A level 1 activity {which I would assume a good majority of the average NPC would be doing to make a living.} pays out 2sp on a success per day.
So a 5gp {or 50sp} bribe would represent about 25 days worth of work for the average Level 1 NPC. {assuming they are skilled enough to make these successes. 5gp represents even more days if you included the occasional failure.) Now, the other thing to consider is how much days of work this represents for the mob members he is attempting to bribe, and the possible risks involved. I'm assuming they are not working for 2sp a day, so this may not even represent a days work to them, and they may refuse if there is a great risk to them. However they would still properly know this is a nice chunk of change to the average person at least, so even if it represents little pay to them, they MAY not feel insulted being offered it at the very least.
The good news, is, it's also probably in character for the mob to at least give the impression of being insulted and barely accepting the bribe, even if they were actually pretty happy with the amount. That way the rogue might pay more next time.
Honestly, on a mob, you're probably better off with 50 silver because it will break between lots of people easier. I might be inclined to just scatter the money among the crowd with a throw and try to get away while they scramble for the coins.
Honestly, on a mob, you're probably better off with 50 silver because it will break between lots of people easier. I might be inclined to just scatter the money among the crowd with a throw and try to get away while they scramble for the coins.
I think the OP meant “the” mob not “a” mob
So mafia / gangsters etc
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I like the change to currency. The way how I have explained it to my players is:
* coppers are the currency of the commoner.
* silvers are the currency of the professionals
* gold is the currency of the noble class.
I like the idea of making coppers the most commonly used currency for everyday activities while leaving gold as the most exclusive currency for lavish purchases. Platinum does not come in “pieces” but are minted to represent a specific event or transaction and are typically worth much much more than 10 times a gold piece. In terms of expensive or magical items, I generally prefer the trading of item for item rather than purchasing with coins. I prefer limiting access to large quantities of coinage.
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I like the change to currency. The way how I have explained it to my players is:
* coppers are the currency of the commoner.
* silvers are the currency of the professionals
* gold is the currency of the noble class.I like the idea of making coppers the most commonly used currency for everyday activities while leaving gold as the most exclusive currency for lavish purchases. Platinum does not come in “pieces” but are minted to represent a specific event or transaction and are typically worth much much more than 10 times a gold piece. In terms of expensive or magical items, I generally prefer the trading of item for item rather than purchasing with coins. I prefer limiting access to large quantities of coinage.
I hadn't thought of it like that, but I like it!
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Don't stare into the void of fantasy economy, only madness can result.
If a real economy shifted by a denomination, it would be catastrophic.
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Don't stare into the void of fantasy economy, only madness can result.
If a real economy shifted by a denomination, it would be catastrophic.
And that catastrophe has happened in real life -- see "hyperinflation". A x10 change is actually mild compared to that.
Don't stare into the void of fantasy economy, only madness can result.
If a real economy shifted by a denomination, it would be catastrophic.
And that catastrophe has happened in real life -- see "hyperinflation". A x10 change is actually mild compared to that.
This. According to Wikipedia, in the 1920s hyperinflation caused the German mark to go from 4 paper marks to being equivalent to a us dollar to... *Inhales* 4 trillion paper marks being equivalent to a us dollar.
(Gold marks where less affected, but still far more dramatic then a 10x effect).
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When wanting to get a real world estimate for the value of coins I use the heuristic of 1cp ~= £1, or $1.
This puts a week’s rations at £40, which is very pricey, but in the right ball park.
A days income at £20 per day’s success for level one. This is low, but again in the right ballpark. Maybe 3 hours minimum wage for an adult - or 4+ hours for someone younger than 18.
Tweaking it down or up from there makes one of the two closer to reality, while pushing the other further away from it. Overall it is a good compromise, that is simple to calculate, and lets me estimate prices quickly on the fly.
Which would put your player’s bribe at £500.
I use the same rule of thumb-- in terms of "buying power", a copper is worth about a dollar, a silver is about ten bucks, and a single gold coin is around $100. This fits pretty well with the prices of common items given in the CRB, and helps give a good approximate "feel" for what things are worth.
Getting back to the OP's question: if i were a low-level mafia enforcer i probably wouldn't scoff at a $500 bribe, but depending on how scared i was of my boss i might not jump at it either. I'd say 5gp was a good opening bid.
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This. According to Wikipedia, in the 1920s hyperinflation caused the German mark to go from 4 paper marks to being equivalent to a us dollar to... *Inhales* 4 trillion paper marks being equivalent to a us dollar.
(Gold marks where less affected, but still far more dramatic then a 10x effect).
Germany want even the worst.
Hungary, 1945-46. Highest monthly inflation rate: 13,600,000,000,000,000%. Highest currency denomination: One trillion. Time it took prices to double: 15.6 hours
Zimbabwe, 2007-8. Highest monthly inflation rate: 79,600,000,000%. Highest currency denomination: 100 trillion. Time it took prices to double: 24.7 hours
Germany is 4th on that list with an inflation rate of 29,500%
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People will also judge the value of money based upon the person spending it. A nobleman offering a 5GP bribe vs a peasant offering the same bribe will be treated differently. One is offering a pittance, while the other is offering a month's wages. The perceived wealth of the individuals involved can be a large factor.
A skilled laborer gets paid 5 sp per day, so I’d think a bribe of 50 days of wages could be quite generous - depending on whats being asked for.
Another comparison: Wealth by level charts. In the CRB for Pf2 it says your entire party of 4 players should find/earn 175GP worth of treasure by the time they hit level 2.
For Pf1, those same 4 players are supposed to receive 4,000GP.
So for that ratio, your 5GP would be equivalent to 114.
And yet if they were level 20, the PF2 party would have much more money than the PF1 party.
The equivalence is nonlinear, changing across level, with the greatest differences being among the earliest and latest levels.
This. According to Wikipedia, in the 1920s hyperinflation caused the German mark to go from 4 paper marks to being equivalent to a us dollar to... *Inhales* 4 trillion paper marks being equivalent to a us dollar.
(Gold marks where less affected, but still far more dramatic then a 10x effect).
Germany want even the worst.
Hungary, 1945-46. Highest monthly inflation rate: 13,600,000,000,000,000%. Highest currency denomination: One trillion. Time it took prices to double: 15.6 hours
Zimbabwe, 2007-8. Highest monthly inflation rate: 79,600,000,000%. Highest currency denomination: 100 trillion. Time it took prices to double: 24.7 hours
Germany is 4th on that list with an inflation rate of 29,500%
United States, 2021, 150,000%. :-)