Keeping near with Disruptive


Advice


We just played with a step up and disruptive character and the problem was that mages can just walk away instead of 5' stepping. That hoses the whole strat. So my question is, can a character do a delay action and use their standard action to run after the mage? Otherwise, unless the mage is glued in place, I just don't see being able to get the disruptive feat to work.


if they walked away they provoked an attack of opportunity.
Tripping can keep people near you.

Also unless the GM is mean, or you are super famous, enemies shouldn't know you have have step up so they'd try to 5' step once before they find out you have that feat.


They take an AoO for moving away, maybe more than one with the right weapon ability, and you can get things like Stand Still to stop them from leaving.

If you really want to invest in it, there are plenty of feats.


If they walk away, they provoke an attack of opportunity. Unless they withdraw, in which case, congratulations, you stopped them from taking the chance to cast anyways.

Your other option is to just have such a disgustingly huge threat zone that there's no way he can avoid it, even with a withdraw. Sure, they can just leave, but they're not going to leave unscathed. Combat Patrol is your best friend in this regard. At 5th level alone, if you happen to be enlarged and using a reach weapon, you can have a reach of 25 feet. There's virtually no way to avoid that big of a threat zone, especially when you consider you can still move while on patrol!


Though your total patrol movement maxes out at your own speed - great for one target, a little chancy for two or more, except for if you only need to take 5' steps this way and that. And your own movement during Combat Patrol provokes AoOs.


DominusMegadeus wrote:
... things like Stand Still...

Ah, my old nemesis! Sadly, there is one thing stopping Stand Still from being truly fantastic, and that is the wording of the feat itself. Stand Still specifically calls out adjacent creatures for your movement stopping. Which is enough to make me and my reach obsession really, really sad.


The Wyrm Ouroboros wrote:
Though your total patrol movement maxes out at your own speed - great for one target, a little chancy for two or more, except for if you only need to take 5' steps this way and that. And your own movement during Combat Patrol provokes AoOs.

Unless you're fighting some truly massive things at 5th level, I think a 25 foot threat zone is enough to deal with just about anything without worry of reprisal. Add in the fact that it only gets higher from there, and you're golden as far as I can tell.


mourge40k wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
... things like Stand Still...
Ah, my old nemesis! Sadly, there is one thing stopping Stand Still from being truly fantastic, and that is the wording of the feat itself. Stand Still specifically calls out adjacent creatures for your movement stopping. Which is enough to make me and my reach obsession really, really sad.

WHAT

HOW

WHY


Stand Still wrote:
When a foe provokes an attack of opportunity due to moving through your adjacent squares, you can make a combat maneuver check as your attack of opportunity.

Mind standin' still for a bit so I can scrape a lil' merchandise offa ya? I find that this flavor of salt sells well! Found out when I sold my bit o' salt from the reaction.


Doesn't pin down work with reach? And does the same thing as stand still basically (slightly better, if I remember right)?

Sure, fighter 11, but fighters have been getting a lot of good stuff recently.


Pin Down thankfully lacks the language that damns Stand Still, so yes, it does work with reach.


But it isn't that surprising that stand still doesn't stop mages unconditionally. I mean... it is possible for humans of any class to grab it at level 1. Pin down is fighter 11, and it is the feat that does exactly what you thought standstill does.

It was never meant to be that powerful of a feat. STandstill was more designed for stopping enemies from slipping past you to attack your own mages.

I only saw it as an anti mage device on some specialized builds like brawler archetype fighters, who had abilities specifically designed to allow it to lock enemies down right next to it and massively debuff both their attacks and concentration checks (which staying in ranged or a full attack from close weapons, an added bonus for this close weapon focused archetype).


In any event, an enemy that is willing to take the hit (well chance the AoO) is likely to get away and cast their spell since most of these abilities work on 5ft step or withdraw actions, not move actions. While trip can get them from moving away early on fly, overland flight, any many other means of flight render trip useless. Combined with mirror image, blur or displacement can give a lot of avoidance even against an enemy with a high to hit.

Of course high level wizards have pretty much always been a problem for melee characters.


Claxon wrote:
In any event, an enemy that is willing to take the hit (well chance the AoO) is likely to get away and cast their spell since most of these abilities work on 5ft step or withdraw actions, not move actions.

It would seem that is the main advantage of standstill compared to pin down- it just works on any AoO drawing movement in those squares. So while it needs special abilities to cover 5' steps and withdraw, it can cover 'bite the bullet' move actions just fine.

So pindown for reach adn general ease of build, but stand still for more complete coverage given the right build (I am mostly looking at brawler archetype fighters with their no escape ability, but no doubt there is more)


Good stuff, guys.


I always wondered if Disruptive/Spellbreaker chain was ever worth the investment. Folks always made it sound like concentration was never a problem, which may be so. For PCs.

Looking at some of the High Level NPCs like a Fire Cleric, Shadow Druid, and Collegiate Arcanist, their concentration modifiers are around the +15-16 area. Against Disruptive opponents, thats +12-13. Their highest level spells would have a Defensive Concentration check of DC 27, making it awfully difficult. With a small investment of a Distracting Weapon, casting on the defensive nearly out of reach for the higher level spells. The wizard having a better chance with Combat Casting, but that's a fair shake. Your -4 with Disruptive cancels his +4.

Even against some monsters, like a Mute Hag with +18 Concentration, will have a hard time using their big guns.

So yeah, it is definitely worth considering! All it boils down to is staying within attacking distance. Pin Down, Stand Still, and the Step-up chain are probably all worth considering for this. Happy womping!

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Keeping near with Disruptive All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.