So i have a concept im considering , issue is , im not really good at making martial builds , even less when we start getting out of the usual ones. So i really wish to gather options and ideas.
So using these 3 rules:
1) 2 handed melee weapon user
2) Using no armor would be better , but if need be light would be ok.
3) The build revolves around the char fighting with speed not strengh , so it should remain mostly DEX based compared to STR.
What can you guys point for me?
PS: Assume the char will be around lvl 5/6 atleast at the start , any paizo published material is valid.
PS 2: The stats should be equivalent to a 25 point buy.
The only thing that I know of that will work like you want is a unchained rogue using an elven curve blade. Probably go half elf for ancestral arms to get proficiency for free. You will need at least 3 level so you could multiclass into a fighter for more feats and weapons specialization latter.
Half-Elf Unchained Rogue is what you want. Pick up either the curve blade or the branch spear, depending on if you value crit range or reach more (personally I think the latter is better for a Rogue).
Ic , i had something along these lines , but i thought maybe there were more options.
Well elf , half elf or feyborn all make up the best choices for me based on this table anyway , so it works for me.
Thanks for the help guys , if anyone else has another ideas , i will be glad to hear them.
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With a 25 point buy.
3 level of unchained rogue is required. Half Elf might be the best option. So you can pick two favored classes. I recommend Unchained Rogue, and (Slayer, or Ranger). With a one level dip in monk to gain Wis mod to AC. This will allow you to have a good AC with out having armor on.
Total Levels
Monk 1
Unchained Rogue 4
Slayer 15
You do lose 2 BAB. But you gain Dex to damage, and Wis Mod to AC.
I recommend the following for ability scores. Using 25 point buy.
Half Elf
Starting at level 5: Unchained Rogue 4 Monk 1 Then in to slayer.
Str 13
Dex 16 (+2 Half Elf, +1 Level 4) 19
Con 14
Int 11
Wis 16
Cha 7
Feat: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Toughness, Dodge(Monk Bonus)
Rouge Talents: Trap Spoter, Weapon Training
Half elf unchained rogue using an elven branched spear (ancestral arms for proficiency).
Any class that gets access to fighter feats and two feats from the Weapon master handbook
You have honed your skills with a group of related weapons.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: Choose one fighter weapon group. While wielding a weapon from this group with which you are proficient, you gain a +1 bonus on damage rolls.
Special: The Martial Focus feat counts as the weapon training class feature with the chosen fighter weapon group for the purpose of weapon mastery feat prerequisites and what weapons you can use with weapon mastery feats.
You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.
Benefit: Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you have already selected with the weapon training class feature. Special: This feat can be taken more than once, but at most once per 5 fighter levels.
Special: Fighters that have the weapon masterAPG archetype can select this feat beginning at 4th level. The benefits of a weapon master’s advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can’t select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option. A weapon master can select this feat as a bonus feat; if he does so, it doesn’t count for the purpose of the requirement that it can be taken at most once per 5 fighter levels.
With the Fighter’s Finesse option
The fighter gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with all melee weapons that belong to the associated fighter weapon group (even if they cannot normally be used with Weapon Finesse). The fighter must have the Weapon Finesse feat before choosing this option.
The agile weapon enhancement should be available, barely, by the level given. It would expand your options quite a bit. I'm not going to list every class that can use a two handed weapon to hit things, I'm sure you know there are a lot of them, but I would suggest that a class with a few skill points and a decent class skill list would be worthwhile to make full use of that dex - ranger, inquisitor, investigator, mesmerist, or, yes, a rogue.
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I'm actually waiting for the Weapon Master's Handbook to be legalized in PFS to use a version of this build there.
Human Warpriest lvl6
Str:13
Dex:18
Con:14
Int:13
Wis:15
Chr:10
lvl1 Feats: Weapon Focus(Polearm or Spear of your choice), Two Weapon Fighting, Spear Dancing Style
lvl3 Feats: Weapon Finesse, Spear Dancing Spiral
lvl5 Feat: Spear Dancing Reach
Get martial focus for the weapon training prerequisite and you can take Advanced weapon training with classes that count as fighters levels like Magus or Brawler.
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Contributor
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Get martial focus for the weapon training prerequisite and you can take Advanced weapon training with classes that count as fighters levels like Magus or Brawler.
Not quite, I'm afraid. :(
Martial Focus only counts as weapon training "for the purpose of weapon mastery feat prerequisites and what weapons you can use with weapon mastery feats."
Since the Advanced Weapon Training feat is not a weapon mastery feat, Martial Focus won't give you access to it.
Oops! Time to re-do some Npc Sheets! :O
The agile weapon enhancement should be available, barely, by the level given. It would expand your options quite a bit. I'm not going to list every class that can use a two handed weapon to hit things, I'm sure you know there are a lot of them, but I would suggest that a class with a few skill points and a decent class skill list would be worthwhile to make full use of that dex - ranger, inquisitor, investigator, mesmerist, or, yes, a rogue.
Weapon Finesse plus Agile can work, although you can't get the 1.5x(Dex Mod) to damage like an Unchained Rogue can.
I would suggest considering an Occultist. If they have the Transmutation Implement they can use Legacy Weapon to add Agile to their finesseable weapons. Meanwhile they can use the Physical Enhancement Resonant Power to get an all-day boost to Dex. By 6th level you are adding +4 to your Dex and +1 Agile to your weapon. Just from those two abilities you are getting +3 to hit and +3 damage at 6th level.
Half-elf is a good choice both for the ability scores and for access to Half-elf, Elf, and Human racial elements. Inner Sea Races offers some nice options for weapon flexibility. Trade Adaptability for Weapon Familiarity (ISR pg. 212) and you get the Weapon Familiarity racial trait of your Elven ancestors. Since Occultists are proficient with all martial weapons, you are proficient in both the Elven Curve Blade and the Elven Branch Spear.
Now instead of taking Weapon Focus in one weapon, you can take Ancestral Weapon Mastery (ISR pg. 201) and effectively get Weapon Focus that can be transferred between any of your ancestral weapons (elven curve blade, elven branch spear, longsword, rapier, longbow, and shortbow) if you have 10 minutes to retrain. Your high Dex will work great with all of those except the longsword. You can switch back and forth between the elven curve blade, elven branch spear, and rapier any time you like or get a boost with bows when the need arises.
This is especially great for feats like Dazzling Display that apply to any weapon for which you have Weapon Focus. You could use Dazzling Display with any of those weapons. (Note: Dazzling Display + the Bruising Intellect trait works great for an Occultist.)
Battle Host Occultist with VMC Magus is a nice option to consider, too. The four bonus feats nearly offsets the cost of VMC, and you will get an Arcane Pool to enhance your weapons (in addition to Legacy Weapon), some Magus Arcana, and Spellstrike. (And Occultists do have Shocking Grasp on their spell list.)
So i have a concept im considering , issue is , im not really good at making martial builds , even less when we start getting out of the usual ones. So i really wish to gather options and ideas.
So using these 3 rules:
1) 2 handed melee weapon user
2) Using no armor would be better , but if need be light would be ok.
3) The build revolves around the char fighting with speed not strengh , so it should remain mostly DEX based compared to STR.
What can you guys point for me?
PS: Assume the char will be around lvl 5/6 atleast at the start , any paizo published material is valid.
PS 2: The stats should be equivalent to a 25 point buy.
A bit silly but a build could be:
1. Elven Curved Blade or Elven Branced spear work, i'd do the curved blade moreso though, reach weapons can be fun but i find you need to build around them a bit more.2. Race: Tengu, because they're dumb and get auto-profficiency in it (or 3+int mod exotic weapons). Also they get +2 dex (what you want) and +2 Wis, which is helpful in dex builds.
3. Class: unchained rogue (minimum 3 levels). It's really your main option there as its a finessable 2h weapon the rogue will give you weapon finesse and its your only way without putting the agile enchantment on the weapon to actually get Dex mod damage on the weapon (which getting it at level 3 is way better than waiting till you can afford a +2 weapon).
3.5: Archetype: Swordmaster: Tengu-only archetype, you give up trap-sense-stuff to get the equivalent of a rage but instead of ragig you enter a trace and get cool stuff (tiger trace is nice because its basically the pounce special ability, though you have to pull off a CMB check to do it).
From there you can actually go a few ways. Full rogue, dip monk for wis to AC on top of dex (could also go paladin for the elightened achetype and get cha to AC instead of wis). Urban barbarian is technically a viable option as well as you'll be able to do Dex-based rages (invulnerable rager stacks with this as well btw so you could go for some silly DR. (unchained barbarian works as well either works, you won't need urban barbarian technically for that one, but its a morale bonus to atk/dmg instead of a dex bonus so no AC boost).
Also invest in Mithral Kikko armor if you can. Its pretty good. +5 AC, +6 max dex, and the stuff has a -0 armor check penalty so you don't need to care that you lack the medium armor proficiency.
That's just a few, ideas that would probably work. Tengu and the tengu archetype aren't required but i thought i'd throw those in the list.
I also have a super silly/dumb idea. You could in theory be a halfling get a elven branched spear, get a way to cast reduce person on yourself (so your reach basically makes you barely able to attack outside of your square when you're tiny), then get power attack + Risky Striker and mix with anything and everything that can give you static damage boosts and somehow hit for way too much damage for something as small as you.
I would definitely suggest doing a minimum of 4 levels in Unchained Rogue to get the Dex to damage option and Debilitating Injury. DI is a very nice debuffing option to help offset the lower BaB you'll get as a rogue. After that, take whatever full BaB class that you want!
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Get martial focus for the weapon training prerequisite and you can take Advanced weapon training with classes that count as fighters levels like Magus or Brawler.Not quite, I'm afraid. :(
Martial Focus only counts as weapon training "for the purpose of weapon mastery feat prerequisites and what weapons you can use with weapon mastery feats."
Since the Advanced Weapon Training feat is not a weapon mastery feat, Martial Focus won't give you access to it.
That suspiciously exact wording kinda bothered me. Oh well, time for all Brawlers to be lvl 3 Weapon Masters.
Weapon Finesse plus Agile can work, although you can't get the 1.5x(Dex Mod) to damage like an Unchained Rogue can.
I would suggest considering an Occultist. If they have the Transmutation Implement they can use Legacy Weapon to add Agile to their finesseable weapons. Meanwhile they can use the Physical Enhancement Resonant Power to get an all-day boost to Dex. By 6th level you are adding +4 to your Dex and +1 Agile to your weapon. Just from those two abilities you are getting +3 to hit and +3 damage at 6th level..
An occultist could definitely work - but I would buy the agile enhancement rather than rely on a standard action to activate it every combat. That's just horrible for the action economy.
An occultist could definitely work - but I would buy the agile enhancement rather than rely on a standard action to activate it every combat. That's just horrible for the action economy.Weapon Finesse plus Agile can work, although you can't get the 1.5x(Dex Mod) to damage like an Unchained Rogue can.
I would suggest considering an Occultist. If they have the Transmutation Implement they can use Legacy Weapon to add Agile to their finesseable weapons. Meanwhile they can use the Physical Enhancement Resonant Power to get an all-day boost to Dex. By 6th level you are adding +4 to your Dex and +1 Agile to your weapon. Just from those two abilities you are getting +3 to hit and +3 damage at 6th level..
Yes, one you can afford Agile it's better to buy it for your primary weapon. But Legacy Weapon can be nice at lower levels or if you switch to another weapon temporarily. And even after you buy Agile, you can use Legacy Weapon to give your weapon other benefits for those times when you can anticipate combat.
As said before, Unchained Rogue 3 or 4 (I like Debilitating Injury) and Slayer all the rest, because it progresses sneak attack and Ranger Combat Style gives you Power Attack without the STR requirement.
Thanks for the help guys.
For now i think i will go for the U rogue + slayer , i will avoid the monk since while i would rather not use armor , i would rather not have alignment restrictions more.
I did like occultist build , but for this concept , the u rogue + slayer is more fitting.
So , what about:
Half elf with the weapon familiarity, U rogue 4 , slayer the rest.
Rogue talents (combat trick , powerful stealth or slow reactions)?
Might take the vanguard slayer archetype to improve the team also , with something like broken wing gambit , what you guys think?
If your GM is willing to allow 3pp, the Swordmaster is pretty fantastic. It's a Dex-based fighter using any type of sword, including greatswords.