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Hi, sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum.
I seem to remember hearing about a feat that allows dex modifiers to be used for damage instead of strength. I guess the intention was to give dex fighters some teeth.
Did this feat ever make it into the game, and if so, what is it called?
Thanks
-Erich
There are two.
Slashing Grace us from the Advanced Class Guide, and has had an errata from the original text.
Dervish Dance can be found in the inner Sea World Guide, and has Role playing hooks attached.
There are a few (also I think this is better in Advice).
And if you want Third Party...
Deadly Agility from Dreamscarred Press.
And in item (enhancement) form...
And for class features you have the Unchained Rogue (Level 3, Finesse Training).
Thanks for the quick responses.
I'm working on a cleric of Cadian so, Rapier...
-Erich
Thanks for the quick responses.
I'm working on a cleric of Cadian so, Rapier...
-Erich
Fencing Grace wins then.
There are a few.
From third party, specifically Path of War, there's Deadly Agility which allows Dex to replace Str for damage without multiple hoops or limitations.
Edit: I type too slowly. :P
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There are a few.
Dervish Dance allows Dex to replace Str for one handing a scimitar. Fencing Grace allows Dex to replace Str for a one handed piercing weapon (mostly Rapier). Slashing Grace allows Dex to replace Str for a one handed slashing weapon, only if you can use Dex to hit with it (which means it's only for whip unless you're a swashbuckler), and was recently refused to prevent your off hand from being used for anything. From third party, specifically Path of War, there's Deadly Agility which allows Dex to replace Str for damage without multiple hoops or limitations.
Edit: I type too slowly. :P
Fencing grace is rapier only. Nothing else.
In addition to the whip, the aldori dueling sword can also be used with slashing grace without swashbuckler levels, as can any light slashing weapon post errata
Strangely, the Estoc (from Melee Tactics Toolbox; like a big rapier, even though the evolutionary origin is different) doesn't get a Dexterity-to-Damage feat: It qualifies for use with Weapon Finesse if you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency for it, but you can't use Slashing Grace because it is a Piercing weapon, and Rules As Written you can't use Fencing Grace because it isn't an actual Rapier, although Rules As Intended you could argue that Fencing Grace ought to work for it. The Dexterity-to-Damage feat set is a mess -- with Slashing Grace, you can get Dexterity-to-Damage on weapons with which you cannot get Dexterity-to-Attack(*) unless you have a class feature such as Swashbuckler's Finesse that give you more than the normal Weapon Finesse feat.
(*)Edit: I wonder if this was Errata'd recently.
Speaking of Swashbucklers, if you are a Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler, you get Dexterity-to-Attack with Scimitars at 1st level and Dexterity-to-Damage at 4th level without expending any feats. Other Swashbuckler archetypes (including vanilla Swashbuckler) do not give you Dexterity-to-Damage without expending a feat (unlike Unchained Rogue).
Slashing Grace allows Dex to replace Str for a one handed slashing weapon, only if you can use Dex to hit with it (which means it's only for whip unless you're a swashbuckler), and was recently refused to prevent your off hand from being used for anything.
there is the Aldori dueling sword that allows you to use weapons finesse
Edit: ninja'ed by Imbicatus
Dual wielding rapiers on an Evangelist of Cayden could be a lot of fun. Full of issues to deal with and feat-intensive, but still. Two dex-to-damage rapiers with Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Favor, Inspire Courage and maybe Heroism running is going to vent goons with a vengeance.
Silly question, but, which supplement has fencing grace in it?
Thanks
-Erich
Speaking of the dueling sword, the Aldori Swordlord prestige class provides yet another route to Dex to damage.
I knew I had seen something about this for the Aldori Dueling Sword, but couldn't remember where I had seen it -- the prestige class, of course -- actually makes sense.
Speaking of Aldori Swordlords, it would probably be good to have a reload of the Aldori Swordlord Fighter archetype as a Swashbuckler archetype, and a reload of the prestige class that makes good use of entry from Swashbuckler (although like the original, it should still be possible to enter from something else).
Silly question, but, which supplement has fencing grace in it?
Thanks
-Erich
Fencing Grace can be found in Pathfinder Player Companion: Advanced Class Origins. If you're looking for the source of a feat or a spell in the future, a good way to find out is to do a search for it on D20PFSRD. They very nearly always lists the source of the material at the bottom of the page. :)
Sorry for the necro, but Fencing Grace was just rereleased in Ultimate Intrigue. In its new form it has the same language as slashing grace. You must have a hand free, no TWF or flurry of blows, and no spell combat.
Oof some magus players are gonna be miffed. I wonder if folks in PFS can still use the one from Advanced Class Origins if they don't own the Ultimate Intrigue when it gets put in the Additional Resources page.
Sorry for the necro, but Fencing Grace was just rereleased in Ultimate Intrigue. In its new form it has the same language as slashing grace. You must have a hand free, no TWF or flurry of blows, and no spell combat.Oof some magus players are gonna be miffed. I wonder if folks in PFS can still use the one from Advanced Class Origins if they don't own the Ultimate Intrigue when it gets put in the Additional Resources page.
My guess would be no, and I've assumed this was coming for ages because of the way slashing grace was re-written.
It now leaves only Dervish Dance as a way for Magi to spell combat and get dex to damage (outside of an agile weapon).
So we're back to every Dex-based Magus wielding a scimitar. :(
Boring.
Lame...
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I believe that Ultimate Intrigue has a feat called Starry Grace that lets you apply Dex to damage with Starknives. Can someone with the book let us know if that feat can be used with Spell Combat?
Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
I can't figure out what you are trying to say.
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I believe that Ultimate Intrigue has a feat called Starry Grace that lets you apply Dex to damage with Starknives. Can someone with the book let us know if that feat can be used with Spell Combat?
Nope.
"You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied."
I'm waiting for the UnRogue errata...
I believe rogue and swashbuckler are the only classes they want to have dex to damage, so you'll likely be waiting a long time.
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I'm waiting for the UnRogue errata...I believe rogue and swashbuckler are the only classes they want to have dex to damage, so you'll likely be waiting a long time.
Do you trust Devs walking up on poor defenselessly basic DnD feats and then hitting them with this nerf bat?
I believe that Ultimate Intrigue has a feat called Starry Grace that lets you apply Dex to damage with Starknives. Can someone with the book let us know if that feat can be used with Spell Combat?Nope.
"You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied."
Thanks for the information. I figured it was too much to hope for.
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Thanks for the information. I figured it was too much to hope for.I believe that Ultimate Intrigue has a feat called Starry Grace that lets you apply Dex to damage with Starknives. Can someone with the book let us know if that feat can be used with Spell Combat?Nope.
"You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied."
It is decent for a Swashbuckler, because they get an extra 5 feet of move with the feat as a bonus, and Startoss Style can give an extra +6 of damage to lessen the sting of it.
Still, they really don't want anyone who isn't an unchained rogue using dex to damage with two-weapon fighting.
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So we're back to every Dex-based Magus wielding a scimitar. :(
...and that's only 'safe' because they don't usually do errata on 'campaign setting' books.
That said, it can still be done for other weapons with a 3 level dip in UnRogue or 4 level dip in Whirling Dervish.
Still, they really don't want anyone who isn't an unchained rogue using dex to damage with two-weapon fighting.
Again, Whirling Dervish... Swashbuckler archetype from Advanced Class Origins.
So we're back to every Dex-based Magus wielding a scimitar. :(...and that's only 'safe' because they don't usually do errata on 'campaign setting' books.
That said, it can still be done for other weapons with a 3 level dip in UnRogue or 4 level dip in Whirling Dervish.
Still, they really don't want anyone who isn't an unchained rogue using dex to damage with two-weapon fighting.Again, Whirling Dervish... Swashbuckler archetype from Advanced Class Origins.
For casters like the magus, 3-4 level dips aren't really viable so the point stands.
I think Paizo owns stock in the scimitar store... :P
It's not like the magus is exactly hurting for damage in the first place. Though some other classes may need better dex to damage options.
I saw the new Fencing Grace and I just ran back to my 3PP Safe Space.
Suffice to say I guess its wishful thinking to get any refunds on Swordmaster's Flairs in PFS for my Inspired Blade.
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So we're back to every Dex-based Magus wielding a scimitar. :(...and that's only 'safe' because they don't usually do errata on 'campaign setting' books.
That said, it can still be done for other weapons with a 3 level dip in UnRogue or 4 level dip in Whirling Dervish.
Still, they really don't want anyone who isn't an unchained rogue using dex to damage with two-weapon fighting.Again, Whirling Dervish... Swashbuckler archetype from Advanced Class Origins.
While Whirling Dervish allows TWF by RAW, the fact that it states it counts as Dervish Dance makes it clearly intended to be one hand only. I wouldn't use it for TWF when Unchained Rogue works without needing to exploit RAW.
Expect table variation on if GMs will allow it to be used for TWF, and it wouldn't surprise me if PFS nerfs it in the clarification document.
While it works now, it's living on borrowed time.
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So we're back to every Dex-based Magus wielding a scimitar. :(...and that's only 'safe' because they don't usually do errata on 'campaign setting' books.
People thought the same was true for Fencing Grace. I don't understand the reasoning behind this decision. Dervish Dance is a two-feat chain that gives you Dex to hit and damage with a weapon that normally isn't even finesseable. Fencing Grace is a three-feat chain that gets you Dex to hit and damage with the iconic example of a graceful weapon. And yet Fencing Grace + Spell Combat is the one that is considered either too powerful or inappropriate in flavor. I really, really, really don't understand this.
I saw the new Fencing Grace and I just ran back to my 3PP Safe Space.
Suffice to say I guess its wishful thinking to get any refunds on Swordmaster's Flairs in PFS for my Inspired Blade.
Wasn't there an errata for the Swordmaster's Flair that allowed a hand holding this item to count as empty for abilities such as the Fencing Grace feat?
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From that FAQ:
"Swordmaster’s flair should have a sentence added to it that says “Carrying a swordmaster’s flair counts as having that hand free for the purpose of abilities that require a free hand, though you still can’t hold another object in that hand.”"
From that FAQ:
"Swordmaster’s flair should have a sentence added to it that says “Carrying a swordmaster’s flair counts as having that hand free for the purpose of abilities that require a free hand, though you still can’t hold another object in that hand.”"
I'm not sure how I missed that!
Thanks.Still pretty annoying though. I wonder if I lose the benefits of Fencing Grace if I hold a rope to keep balance, or have my hand on the mast of a ship... /s
It's not super useful to them, but I suppose kineticists could use Swordmaster's Flair without preventing their abilities.