Subtractional resources... why is so much Official pathfinder content banned from PFS?


Pathfinder Society


I am tempted to join the society gaming. Yet, if I look at the alchemy booklet - over half of it is Banned.
I look at the Giant hunter pamphlet - over half of it is banned.
Ultimate race guide - more than half of that is banned and I haven't the faintest clue why one can just sit down and play a kitsune, but not a cat folk.
Inner sea race guide - More than half of that is banned and it didn't really bring anything new to the table.

So, can we get a developers to do a review on the "Whys" XYZ are banned?
Why should I buy anything that I cannot use?

As the "Subtracted from resources" list goes you guys need to cut that down to items that can break the game, and ONLY those. look for stacking multipliers, Super-dupper-swift actions of No-that's-impossible and abusive Re-roll stuff.

I would be angered to buy any thing like say a car...

Only to find half of it (*or more) missing.
Then take it back - Get the new version (*Ala, InnerSea Races*)
Only to find, wow...

This is only half a car too!

Sovereign Court

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

There are many reasons why specific mechanics are banned for PFS.

Some require GM adjudication.
Some involve crafting.
Some are meant for evil characters.
Some are restricted for storyline reasons.
Some are attached to races that aren't legal for all players.
Some are meant to be unlocked through play.
Some are considered unbalanced for Society play.
Some rotate in and out of legality.

I may have missed a few other reasons.

Grand Lodge 4/5

5 people marked this as a favorite.

From what I remember, if you actually check the numbers the vast majority of all Pathfinder content is PFS legal.

Grand Lodge

There is still a lot more that's legal to use in society play than in any home game I've ever been involved in.

I realize that finding out something that you read about in a book and got excited to use isn't legal for Society play. There have been others who have felt the same way and made threads to discuss why it isn't legal, and to attempt to convince the campaign staff to change the ruling. Sometimes, if you present a good enough case, the powers that be decide to rethink their inital decision and overturn the banning.

2/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Harrowed-Path wrote:

Stuff

I would be angered to buy any thing like say a car...
...

And find banned to drive at its maximum velocity!

Not all people can drive it, you need a "boon"! (a.k.a drive license)

If you think about it, with a car, there are lots of things you´re "banned" to do, even if you´ll be able to do it in a home game private enviroment.

It´s only half a car if you think pathfinder is published only for society, but it´s not the case.

Kalindara has provided you a list of reason for not allowing something in society. I think it can be included something like don´t fit with golarion fluff (p.e. advanced firearms) or don´t mix well with the pathfinder society (p.e. illiterate feral childs trying to report their mission).


Oykiv wrote:
Harrowed-Path wrote:

Stuff

I would be angered to buy any thing like say a car...
...

And find banned to drive at its maximum velocity!

Not all people can drive it, you need a "boon"! (a.k.a drive license)

If you think about it, with a car, there are lots of things you´re "banned" to do, even if you´ll be able to do it in a home game private enviroment.

It´s only half a car if you think pathfinder is published only for society, but it´s not the case.

Kalindara has provided you a list of reason for not allowing something in society. I think it can be included something like don´t fit with golarion fluff (p.e. advanced firearms) or don´t mix well with the pathfinder society (p.e. illiterate feral childs trying to report their mission).

oh please. stop. my analogy was sound.

If I were to join PFS play I would NOT have the needed boon, no way of finding out how I can get it, and gee maybe even if I could possibly get such a boon - maybe I just can't go on a flight from elloy to paris to attend a CON.

I am sure that there are plenty of very good reasons for why PFS isn't palladium rifts society, but what the hey - it is sword and sorcery...

Just with guns, bombs, ninja, samurai, multi-armed aliens, robot monsters, laser pistols and chainsaw swords.

So, legitimately speaking. why not a catfolk brawler?

Dark Archive

I am not sure, what the actual problem is.

Are you angry, because you can't play as X, or are you curious and want to know what the balancing reasons might be?

In the latter case, some extra information might be helpful.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
I am tempted to join the society gaming. Yet, if I look at the alchemy booklet - over half of it is Banned.

I think its your perception thats skewed

Pathfinder Player Companion: Alchemy Manual:

The spontaneous alchemy rules on pages 4-5 are legal for play; Archetypes: the drunken rager on page 12 is legal; Equipment: all equipment, magic items, and reagents on the inside of the front and back covers, as well as pages 6-31 are legal for play except cytillesh extract, cytillesh spores, fungul grafts, fungal eyes, fury gas, ginger extract, mugwort extract, and reaching vines. The mythic alchemical items on pages 26-27 are legal, however the mythic section of each is not available for PFS play. Note that any inidividual items found in kits can not be sold back seperately; Feats: the feats on pages 5 and 8 are legal for play; Misc.: the new abilities for improved homunculi on page 14 are legal for play. The ooze crafting section on pages 22-23 is not legal for play. The herbalism as alchemy section on page 24 is legal for play. The mythic path abilities and 1st-tier universal path abilities sections on page 26 are not legal for play.

1/1 archetypes are legal.
8 out of ~100 items are illegal, all 8 have pretty good cause.
and the mythic items don't work because PFS doesn't use mythic.
PFS doesn't do crafting because its problematic


Most of the stuff PFS bans actually has a pretty good reason.

If you're interested in why specific items might have been banned, please tell us those items.

The majority of content is not banned. Not even half. Maybe 20% of content (on the high end) might be banned. Probably not even nearly that much.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

2 people marked this as a favorite.

PFS Additional Resources are significantly more permissive than any GM's home campaign rules that I've ever experienced (including my own).

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Greetings, Harrowed_Path. Welcome to Pathfinder Society. Here's my card.

As a newcomer to PFS you likely are unaware of the years of evolutions that have given us today's Additional Resources document. It wasn't arbitrarily created yesterday, and it wasn't created by one person. This very community put it together. Not just Paizo employees.

A better way to approach your question would have been to simply ask why Catfolk are not allowed rather than to attack the entire institution of Additional Resources. If you had presented your question in that manner you would have learned that Catfolk Boons are ordered up for Charity Auctions to raise money for good causes. You would have found out that Catfolk aren't common in the Inner Sea, whereas Kitsune are common in Tian Xia.

Besides Catfolk, and the abundantly available Alchemy material, is there another specific option you'd like an answer for?

We're happy to help you, if you're polite about it.


Harrowed-Path, if you wish to get the attention of the powers that be then please calmly state exactly what you want.


See the very first post.

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kalindlara wrote:

There are many reasons why specific mechanics are banned for PFS.

Some require GM adjudication.
Some involve crafting.
Some are meant for evil characters.
Some are restricted for storyline reasons.
Some are attached to races that aren't legal for all players.
Some are meant to be unlocked through play.
Some are considered unbalanced for Society play.
Some rotate in and out of legality.

I may have missed a few other reasons.

Harrowed, this is the most complete list of reasons to your question. I doubt that you are going to get much more of a complex answer from a dev. I understand the frustration, however, these are the main reasons decision are made for the overall benefit of the campaign


1 person marked this as a favorite.
random joe/toe fungus wrote:
Harrowed-Path, if you wish to get the attention of the powers that be then please calmly state exactly what you want.
Harrowed-Path wrote:
See the very first post.

You didn't actually calmly state anything. You were aggressive from the start. People replied, calmly, and then you got more aggressive and moved right on into abusive. I honestly don't know what you expect to actually accomplish here.

The fact of the matter is that society play isn't everyone's cup of tea. Personally, I greatly prefer home games.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Harrowed-Path wrote:

if you aren't a developer.

I am done with replying to you.

Want to know the best way to get a developer to ignore you? Pose a question, get reasonable responses that answer your question, yet continue to call out a developer like a petulant child.

You have a valid and comprehensive list of reasons why things are generally banned on the Additional Resources list provided by Kalindlara in a very nice and friendly fashion. You have evidence that most things aren't banned from BigNorseWolf in again a very friendly and postive manner. Although nicely asked, you will only provide one specific banned content from the Addtional Resources (the Catfolk). You've been given the specicic reason why by Nefreet, who to his credit, did a spectacular job being kind about it at the point where frankly I'm surprised anybody did.

If all you're here to do is complain, and pound your feet on the ground until a developer shows up, good luck. Chances are that developer will be locking the thread, not replying to it.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As Nefreet mentioned earlier, we (members of the pathfinder society community) would be happy to do our best to answer your questions.

"if you are not a developer I'm done replying with you".

Well you got me there....I'm not a developer. I'm just a "has been". I have been a Venture captain and VL before that for 3 years.

I can tell you thing's are not arbitrarily banned. Often, but not always, the campaign leadership will bounce ideas off of the Venture Officer community and then the PFS community as a whole before making a decision.

As Nefreet mentioned earlier, we are happy to help if you are polite about it.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Indiana—Northern

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Harrowed:

One of my roles in Pathfinder Society Organized Play is to chair a Task Force of Venture-Officers who review new content before it goes live. I assign sub groups of the task force to review a given document, and then make recommendations to the developers and the Organized Play Coordinator of what should or should not be included. The task forces are instructed that one of the goals is to strive to include as much of the product as possible.

Ultimately, the decision is Paizo's, but local Venture-Officers, who are in the game stores, GM at conventions, and interact with the player base with regular frequency provide another set of eyes into that new document.

The list the Kalindlara is spot on for the types of things that could get an item flagged for review, exclusion, clarification, etc. So, while you may not want to hear from someone who isn't a developer, I can tell you that list is pretty good.

It's certainly up to the Paizo staff if they want to weigh in, but I would hasten to add that being belligerent isn't likely to help. Good people here have given you good, and sound, advice into this part of PFS. The fact that they aren't developers doesn't make them wrong.

But, let's look at a few:
1. Crafting: with very rare exception, if something allows crafting, it's going to be banned. Why? Because crafting, as a general matter, is banned from Pathfinder Society Play. It can have a profoundly negative effect on wealth by level. But, you can read the Pathfinder Society Role-playing Guild Guide about that.

2.Evil: if something requires a character to be evil, it's going to be banned. Why? Because characters of evil alignment are not allowed in Pathfinder Society Play. Again, you can find this in the PFSRPGG.

3. Races: races can be banned for a variety of reasons - some are just too powerful, others don't fit into Pathfinder Society Play, some don't fit into the story (but the opposite of that is that if a race could be really tied to a season's store lines, it might be included.) Some races can be unlocked through boons (normally obtained by GMing, and rarer ones unlocked by GMing at Gen Con.)

4. Game-breaking: some things will just break the game, and one of the best examples is Mythic Powers. Now, I love mythic powers, and the truth is that I wish there were more opportunities to include them in PFS play. The truth of the matter, despite my wishes, is that mythic powers are extremely overpowered for standard PFS play, and don't really fit in (though there is one scenario where it is allowed, and that's really cool.)

Those are just a few. I can appreciate that you feel like you have few options, but in reality, as others have said, the vast majority of Pathfinder product is available to you. I am sorry that you feel as if you have so little to choose from, but the reality is that it's just not the case.

But, beyond that, I don't know what more to tell you.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Thea Peters wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:

There are many reasons why specific mechanics are banned for PFS.

Some require GM adjudication.
Some involve crafting.
Some are meant for evil characters.
Some are restricted for storyline reasons.
Some are attached to races that aren't legal for all players.
Some are meant to be unlocked through play.
Some are considered unbalanced for Society play.
Some rotate in and out of legality.

I may have missed a few other reasons.

Harrowed, this is the most complete list of reasons to your question. I doubt that you are going to get much more of a complex answer from a dev. I understand the frustration, however, these are the main reasons decision are made for the overall benefit of the campaign

I have to agree with Kalindria and Thea, that list is pretty much it. The reason why something is allowed is not publicly discussed, for a number of pretty good reasons.

And sorry to say that, but if you only desire a developer answer, chances are pretty good, that you will not receive exactly what you want.

The PFS community, on these boards and at every game table is one of the things many of us treasure quite a bit. That is the reason why you already received quite a number of helpful posts, despite the fact, that many of those posters have answered almost the same question dozens of times already.

Additonal resources re a complicated issue, and with out the option to measure something objectively, something people have to make judgement calls. When you decide what is available to thousands of players worldwide, the wants of few unfortunately have come after the needs of the many.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Harrowed-Path,

You are going to quickly learn that the people who read and participate on the boards are very knowledgeable of the history and evolution of PFS.

Dismiss them at your doom. Being rude and dismissive will not get you an answer to your question.

As advised by others, be nice, give sound examples and reasons to support your cause and you have chance of prevailing in your quest.

You are being very angry in your tone. I am not sure even if the developers responded to you that you would like or accept the answer.

Good Luck. Most of the folks on this board are very helpful but none of us have to put up with, or listen to, someone who is presenting themselves as rude, selfish, and angry.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sorry, but this poster is just yelling all over the place. Here, in the thread on Occult Realms, in the thread on the Weapon Master book, etc. I feel it's probably best to not attempt to deal with them - they continue to demand developer explanation of "why" they should buy books, etc.


Gary Bush wrote:
Dismiss them at your doom. Being rude and dismissive will not get you an answer to your question.

Well, "doom" might be a little strong.

... Unless there's something about some of my fellow board-goers that I'm missing?

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I have Doom as a spell-like ability 3/day, but only when I GM Core games.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Nefreet wrote:
I have Doom as a spell-like ability 3/day, but only when I GM Core games.

I seem to have it when I GM, and as an undismissable spell like.

Really, 8 scorching rays, and not a single one under 17 points of damage? There's a reason I can't get anyone to let me run Bonekeep in town. ;-)

Paizo Employee Customer Service Manager

4 people marked this as a favorite.

removed some posts. Please be respectful to each other.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Compared to every past sponsored network campaign I've been in... Living City, Living Greyhawk, Legends of the Shining Jewel, Living Arcanis, Living Death, Pathfinder Society by far, has been the most open and quickest adopting of new material.

For example LSJ is a Pathfinder driven campaign. The only expansion book that's been officially adopted is the Advanced Player's Guide.

Kalindara pretty much touched all of the basic reasons that stuff especially the AP specific traits are banned. That's part of the price of managing a campaign that servers 30,000 players instead of 4-6.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As to why the "subtraction pattern", it's simple.

The majority of Pathfinder players do not play PFS. Therefore they want to provide as many tools for a GM to use in their home campaign as possible. Some of them are designed for cinematic over-the-top games. Some of them are for groups doing strange and exotic campaigns. Some turn out to be less balanced than others. Each GM finds their ideal game out of the toolkit, and a lot of them play around with houserules on top of that.

In addition, Paizo is a smart company with a lot of industry experience. Quite simply, for a game company to survive, they have to produce good content that sells to a wide audience regularly. To meet a wide audience, they have to support lots of playstyles.

Then they built PFS. It's a great option for people who don't have groups or who want to play with new people. In order for this to work and be fun, they have to make the experience play as close to the same as possible across the whole globe. To get the same experience you need to cut. Immediately houserules go. Treasure and experience become standardized. Rules that require a lot of GM adjudication go. They also want to fit the campaign world. If everybody is tieflings and catfolk, that doesn't reflect the world they wrote. So they need to reduce those options. They chose the boon system to make some things rare but achievable.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

65 people marked this as a favorite.

Hi Harrowed_Path,

My name is John Compton, and I am the developer for the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild (part of the Pathfinder Society organized play program that also includes the Pathfinder Adventure Card Guild). I work in conjunction with assistant developer Linda Zayas-Palmer and Organized Play Coordinator Tonya Woldridge to develop campaign policy that helps present a fun gaming experience to our active player base of over 65,000 participants. To break down those roles a bit more, Tonya manages our vast volunteer corps, coordinates the game's presence at countless conventions, and helps resolve out-of-game disputes. Linda and I oversee the production of dozens of scenarios each year, manage the Additional Resources page, and address any in-game issues (e.g. rules clarifications or typo correction) that might arise.

That makes me the developer you've requested.

Before I go into answering your questions, I would like to reiterate what others have said in this thread and in others: the Pathfinder Society community--both online and off--is a very helpful one that is lucky to have so many knowledgeable volunteers and long-time participants who are happy to answer questions. Collectively, they have an institutional knowledge of past rulings and developments that often rivals our own, and this community is an incredible asset in assisting beginners and gaming veterans alike. I strongly recommend you consider what they have to say, and even if they are not the ruling authority on the campaign, they are human beings who know a great deal, are happy to share that knowledge, and deserve no less respect than anyone else.

In the very second post, Kalindlara has presented a very solid list of reasons why Linda and I choose to exclude a particular character option from the organized play campaign. I will further develop the "some are meant to be unlocked through play" angle to say that we sometimes hold back some options until we can set an adventure in the associated location, thus allowing PCs to see those options in action in the world before unlocking the ability to use those options themselves. To provide an example, I might withhold derro options from one book due largely to those humanoids' evil insanity and virtually nonexistent relationship with the in-world Pathfinder Society; however, were we to present a scenario that raids a derro laboratory and let the PCs run off with some of that technology, there's a really good chance that I would include those on a Chronicle sheet.

In the eighth post, BigNorseWolf presents a very sound assessment of just how much of Pathfinder Player Companion: Alchemy Guide is in fact legal for play. This is the case for the vast majority of books that include new character options (exceptions include publications that present variant rules like Pathfinder RPG Pathfinder Unchained and certain books that present options that are not suitable for everyday play like Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Technology Guide). I agree that the Additional Resources can sometimes be difficult to navigate and suggests that so much is banned, but I suspect rewriting it from a strictly permissive approach (i.e. listing what is allowed) would triple the document's already considerable length.

To add to the historical perspectives that others have provided, keep in mind that the organized play program has grown considerably under the oversight of two different organized play coordinators and four different lead developers. That means that the assessment of what is suitable for the campaign and what is not has evolved over time. That also means that there are certain options that were banned in the past that might be suitable for reintroduction into the campaign, and this is where the community is especially valuable in tracking down these rules and bringing them to my attention. It's important to note that many are still not a good fit, but others may have just slipped through the cracks.

Mark Stratton (the 21st post here) and the Additional Resources team he leads are invaluable in providing additional perspectives regarding newly published content and that content's potential impact on the organized play campaign. Linda and I then review those sources ourselves, compare our own findings to these recommendations, and then spend numerous hours discussing whether the potential risk presented by Option A outweighs the benefit of adding another cool character option to Pathfinder Society for countless players to enjoy.

Chronicle sheets that open up additional player race options (i.e. "race boons"), have long served as an incentive to promote people to participate and GM at conventions and other large, public events. Some are rarer than others, and when considering what races to add, once again Linda, Tonya, and I review the potential impact of adding a new race, the suitability of that new race for the campaign (many evil-aligned humanoid races are not a great fit, whereas some races are especially good fits because the campaign is currently focusing on a region where they're common), and even how much information Paizo has published about that new race.

Numerous threads have appeared asking that race boons be made more available outside of conventions, but the common return question has been, "What else can we provide boon-wise to help convention coordinators incentivize people to volunteer as GMs without the boons being so powerful that they seriously disrupt the game's balance?" We have not found a suitably compelling answer to that question.

In the case of catfolk, we have a race that A) had virtually no contextual information regarding how they fit into Golarion's lore prior to the very recent publication of Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Races, B) has not appeared in a scenario--at least not yet--and C) a race that has shown up only on a charity auction boon a few years ago, which means that when it does appear to the general public, tradition suggests it might be released in a limited quantity during the first year and then opened up far more after that. Of course we're not bound by past patterns, and perhaps we'll decide (or be persuaded) that catfolk or another very rare race should see much wider use between now and then.

You might not agree with that approach, and you're welcome to voice reasons to change that policy. While you do so, please keep in mind that the paizo.com messageboards are a safe and welcoming place, and one of the best ways to earn your argument the respect it deserves is to show that same respect to others--in this thread and all others.

I encourage you to give the organized play campaign a try, even if your ideal starting character is not an option at this time. I, too, was at first skeptical about the organized play format before I tried Pathfinder Society back in 2010. As you might infer from my employment by Paizo Inc., the program so decisively exceeded my expectations that I became its developer to help share that joy with others.

2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Harrowed-Path wrote:

I am tempted to join the society gaming. Yet, if I look at the alchemy booklet - over half of it is Banned.

I look at the Giant hunter pamphlet - over half of it is banned.
Ultimate race guide - more than half of that is banned and I haven't the faintest clue why one can just sit down and play a kitsune, but not a cat folk.
Inner sea race guide - More than half of that is banned and it didn't really bring anything new to the table.

So, can we get a developers to do a review on the "Whys" XYZ are banned?
Why should I buy anything that I cannot use?

As the "Subtracted from resources" list goes you guys need to cut that down to items that can break the game, and ONLY those. look for stacking multipliers, Super-dupper-swift actions of No-that's-impossible and abusive Re-roll stuff.

I would be angered to buy any thing like say a car...

Only to find half of it (*or more) missing.
Then take it back - Get the new version (*Ala, InnerSea Races*)
Only to find, wow...

This is only half a car too!

While there's certainly room to argue that some items that are banned shouldn't be, you're unlikely to find that they're going to unlock all the races as those are directly a way to prevent a certain degree of min/maxing while providing benefits to those who take the time to support the very workings of the society itself (GMing).

You might be better off approaching this from a different angle: namely, "Hey everyone, I want to play a catfolk brawler but catfolk aren't legal. I like this concept for reasons A, B, and C. Can anyone help me find a way capture this concept using legal resources?"

They may not be able to get you a catfolk brawler, but they can probably build you something mechanically or thematically similar.

[Edit: Of course I'd post at almost the same time as John Compton. Carry on.]


1 person marked this as a favorite.

(Bows to John Compton)

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
John Compton wrote:
I agree that the Additional Resources can sometimes be difficult to navigate and suggests that so much is banned, but I suspect rewriting it from a strictly permissive approach (i.e. listing what is allowed) would triple the document's already considerable length.

John - this is a really good point. I really get why the additional resources are presented the way that they are, but as a long term player, even I struggle with trying to determine legality without being able to Ctrl-F what it is I'm looking for. Trying to differentiate between permitted and listed in an exclusionary list vs. trying to differentiate what's been reviewed is sometimes more work than it's work. I'm interested and excited in seeing what the new task force comes up with regarding this, because it's a very real frustration for a lot of players both long and short term.

Silver Crusade 3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Also the idea that Pathfinder is supposed to be "sword & sorcery" is kinda funny to me. At least in the context of Golarion, the main setting.

Golarion has always been a fantasy kitchen sink, with content from vastly different eras. There are ancient Egyptians living across the sea from 18th century Americans, Numeria as a place of alien technology has always been a part of the setting and guns being developed but rare outside of Alkenstar as well. Inner Sea World Guide has a section about the role of printing press, clockwork technology and guns on Golarion, and because I read that book early on, it felt more like a Renaissance world than a medieval one to me.

A lot of the banned options can be understood better after reading ISWG, really. An example: Guns exist = we get gunslingers. Alkenstarians are kinda reluctant to share their technology = no gun-using archetypes for other classes. Spellscar Drifters (a cavalier archetype that gets gunslinger-abilities)are specifically fluffed to come from the area where guns are relatively common = it's legal.

In the case of races, it would break the sense of "we are on Golarion" if everything was legal to use without limitations. I know it sucks not to be able to play what you want, and waiting long for an opportunity to get are rarer boon. But it's important to see the bigger picture as well. This needs to be fun for everyone. And for some people, that means having consistent lore and characters that match it.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Eldirial wrote:
...they continue to demand developer explanation of "why" they should buy books, etc.

My response is such cases will always be "you shouldn't."

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

MisterSlanky wrote:
John Compton wrote:
I agree that the Additional Resources can sometimes be difficult to navigate and suggests that so much is banned, but I suspect rewriting it from a strictly permissive approach (i.e. listing what is allowed) would triple the document's already considerable length.
John - this is a really good point. I really get why the additional resources are presented the way that they are, but as a long term player, even I struggle with trying to determine legality without being able to Ctrl-F what it is I'm looking for. Trying to differentiate between permitted and listed in an exclusionary list vs. trying to differentiate what's been reviewed is sometimes more work than it's work. I'm interested and excited in seeing what the new task force comes up with regarding this, because it's a very real frustration for a lot of players both long and short term.

Archives of nethys. Look for funny white X. Not perfect, but as I'm not doing brain surgery, close enough for state work.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Archives of nethys. Look for funny white X. Not perfect, but as I'm not doing brain surgery, close enough for state work.

This is what I wind up doing. Or I use Hero Labs. But, considering the number of errors I've found over time, I usually want to confirm on more unusual character builds, which isn't always easy.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I trust Nethys more than HeroLab for PFS legality questions, but you still need to doublecheck the AR page to be sure.

Community & Digital Content Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Locking this one as well.

Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Subtractional resources... why is so much Official pathfinder content banned from PFS? All Messageboards