Robe of Arcane Heritage brings the effective sorcerer levels up, raising the effective druid level.
Boon companion take the effective druid level up to a maximum of the character level.
From the way these work the robe would happen 'first', so both will still not bring the final effective druid level above the character level. Combing the two, however, could allow to sorc to multiclass a little without the animal companion falling behind.
The Key distinctions are Character Level vs. Class Level
The Robe alters Class level but Not Character Level.
Boon Companion is Capped by Character level not Class level.
So it doesn't really matter how much the Robe boosts his effective Sorcerer Level If his Character Level is 10 Boon Companion can not bring the animal companion above an effective druid level of 10.
From the way these work the robe would happen 'first', so both will still not bring the final effective druid level above the character level.Even if the robe would happen 'first' the effective sorcerer level can bring the final effective druid level above the character level since there are no limitation in the Sylvan description nor in the robe description.
a sorcerer level 10 would calculate his effective druid level like this:
10+4-3 = 11.
but he is still only Character level 10 and that is where Boon Companion caps out
So his effective druid level for Animal Companion can not go above 10.
You cannot get your companion level above your character level.
Edit: With boon companion*. Sorry, thought that part was obvious.
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.... Yes, You can... you all seem not to be able to read here. Boon Companion is a nonfactor here. Regardless his level will become above his character level from the Robes.
And He could anyway BECAUSE unless otherwise stated effects stack in the most beneficial way.
So Boon Companion + Robes would = Companion of level +4 ( Because Boon companion cannot make your level above Character level , basically cancelling out the -3)
No
See edit.
Words are but foul breath and foul breath is but foul wind, so therefore I will depart unkissed.
Also, listen to your own advice. You fail to refute the argument of the various posters ahead of you who all make far more compelling arguments.
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I do not in any way fail to refute the claims by the other posters. Their arguments are no more compelling than mine, it is simply your own personal preference.
When speaking on the Rules of the game it comes down to reading and interpretation. I am stating it bluntly without flowery language.
As a poster before stated, Class level and Character level are indeed different.
At no point did I say or even insinuate you can push your Effective Druid level past your character level of 10. What I said was in response to the usage of one, the other and finally both.
Lets do some common math here. Sylvan makes your Effective Druid level Equal to Sorcerer level -3. So your level at 10.. would be 7. Boon Companion has the ability to give you up to 4 levels to your Effective Druid Level for the purposes of Animal Companion. This cannot go above your character level. As such Your Effective Druid level becomes.. 10 as the extra +1 is lost to the Clause. Let us remove this feat and start back. The Sorcerer gains the Robes, which among other things, counts the Sorcerer's Class level as 4 levels Higher for the purposes of Bloodline Powers, which this Animal Companion classifies as. As Such it has no caveat restricting it to Character level and thus all 4 levels apply.. making it Effective Druid level 11.
Ah, we are in agreement than. Your last post was unclear and seemed to insinuate that you could get your companion 4 levels above character level (I was boggled how you got to that number). My apologies for the nat 1 on reading comprehension.
I suppose a very novel reading of the rules can get such a result. I can understand how you reached that conclusion.
I would argue that RAI there is no way Paizo would want you to get an animal companion that high above your level, and that the description of the item in question is very poorly worded. But I can prove neither, as it is only my own personally common sense telling me no. Strictly RAW I believe you're technically correct, but I would never allow the two to stack (I've seen enough of those shenanigans in 3.5, and want to see none of it ever again).
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It matters not personal opinions and is not common sense as what is written is what is. As a Matter of fact there are a Few ways to gain abilities above whatever level there is and doing so with animal companions is no where near new or special. otherwise things like Horse Master would not exist. In practice a Suped up AC is the LEAST of the things that can be worried about and oftentimes just makes the creature less expendable in the long run... considering the Table does not go past Level 20.
The Hunter and in some way the Ranger has shown that while formidable.. powerful AC's arent changing anything.
The Item in no way is poor worded. It does exactly what it is meant to. It would give you your level 15th ability at 11th REGARDLESS of if your were Sylvan or not. It folloew the same recipe as all the +4 ( or +5) to an ability items.
I think the difference here is also "effective level" vs. "character level". I'll have to look for it, but I read in a thread not too long ago that dealt with something different. "Character Level" is immutable and never changes, other than leveling up. "Effective Level" fluctuates. Boon Companion is based on a max of "Character Level", not "effective level". Even though the Robe gives an "effective level" that is 4 times higher it still isn't changing the "character level", which trumps all. This is the impression I was left with, anyways.
Yes, that's why I said my opinion on RAW and wording quality is irrelevant.
I would never allow it because I believe that RAI it isn't supposed to work and also because it's way too powerful. We can argue this all day, but it's completely pointless and impossible to prove either way, so I won't even bother.
RAW you're right. I just think RAW has made a mistake in this case.
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What!? Someone figured out a way to make a broken combo through an awkward and out of context reading of RAW!? No way!
Congrats - you can make characters who can go sit in the corner with my dead character who receives no penalties from the condition. (both of which no GM in their right mind would allow)
The fact that the item stacks with boon companion. In 3.5 I've seen an animal companion 4 levels above character level, and it's always broken. Always. I will never allow such nonsense again.
I think RAI they don't stack, but there is no way to prove any claims on RAI without brining in a developer, so I see no point in arguing. It's an oversight either in wording or meaning. At the very least there should be a line specifying it doesn't stack with boon companion.
False. I made no such claim. I specified animal companions.
Please refrain from being condescending, as I have been perfectly civil so far (and even agree with your side on a strict RAW basis).
You cannot argue against my personal opinion. It's my opinion, and I am forcing it on nobody else, very clearly calling out that there is no way to prove it.
Items and feats should give you a benefit. If the character spent a feat on Boon Companion, then that should not make the Robe much less useful; and that would be sad.
I'd let it work. An Animal Companion +4 at the level where you get the robe is not going to break the world.
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Items and feats should give you a benefit. If the character spent a feat on Boon Companion, then that should not make the Robe much less useful; and that would be sad.
So if a character takes improved critical and then later finds a keen weapon, should they stack because otherwise it would be sad?
Not that this line of argument proves anything one way or the other with the OP, but the argument is flawed.
Keen states it doesn't stack with IC in it's description. That's not a very strong argument.
Keen states it doesn't stack with IC in it's description. That's not a very strong argument.
Yeah...that's kind of my point.
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This is my interpretation:
Feats do not just get "applied" and become otherwise inert. If you have a feat that applies to "all creatures except goblins" and another feat that turns you into a goblin, the first feat won't function anymore once you are a goblin.
With this in mind, Boon Companion reads thus:
The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level.
So, if you applied Boon Companion first, the following would happen.
- Sylvan gives you an animal companion of CL - 3.
- Boon Companion increases your animal companion level by 4, to a maximum of your character level. This increases your animal companion to CL.
- Robes of Arcane Heritage treats you as a sorcerer of CL + 4. This increases your animal companion level to CL + 4.
- Boon Companion has now increased your animal companion level to above your character level. Thus, Boon Companion no longer applies, dropping your animal companion back to CL + 1.
Thus, you end up with CL + 1. Nowhere in the rules does it say that you can ignore all of a feat's rules and special conditions after you apply it. In fact, multiple examples state just the opposite, as if you take STR drain that puts you below STR 13, you don't get to still apply Power Attack before the STR drain.
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Felyndiira is correct. Here is a quote from James Jacobs to support his rationale:
Boon Companion takes your companion up to your level. If anything else raises that level, then Boon Companion's benefit steadily decreases until it just shuts off (if the level of your companion is equal to or above your character level).
The Boon Companion shuts off when you don the robes, but the Robes themselves get your AC to 11th level as a 10th level Sylvan sorcerer.
Don't forget about Huntmaster: Human (adds a level to AC, with a restricted list, but small cats are on there...)
By my reading, this combo sorta looks like it would work, though I would understand a GM ruling differently...
With Huntmaster, assuming this feat/magic item combo worked, you would have +5 levels.