My apologies for the conclusion I came to. Having not looked at your Gunslinger guide, I misunderstood.
Beat me to the 1k by mere seconds!
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My apologies for the conclusion I came to. Having not looked at your Gunslinger guide, I misunderstood.
Beat me to the 1k by mere seconds!
It's all good, I never want to make people feel like they have to purchase something to enjoy my guides entirely, but at the same time I am getting into writing for third parties, and if something I've written is relevant, I'd like to include it. Not like it's entirely centered, just mentioned as something for people who'd like to check out my writing.
And yeah, I REALLY wanted the 1k post.
BTW, the strike out text didn't transfer to the guide.
Here is a question that I do not recall seeing answered (or even asked) anywhere:
Many/most composite blasts do damage of two types, with half being one type and half another type. If the damage roll is an odd number, how is that last point of damage allocated to a damage type?
I wanted to paste my own take of a whip kinitecist.
Air/Air/Aether Hobgoblin(Though race doesn't matter so much) Reach Controller/Switch Hitter
This guy is for when you don't have the party wizard handy. or someone else who would take haste. The elements are chosen in a way that you can get everything you need as soon as possible, so that you can be exerting control over the field and dealing all your melee damage by level 7. Your first air simple blast can be whatever you choose, as you'll have both at level 7. I, however, recommend using lightning mostly once you get the whip, as your lower iteratives will hit more often.
1st - Toughness, Extended Range
2nd - Air's Reach
3rd - Weapon Focus, Thundering Infusion
4th - Air Cushion
5th - Weapon Finesse, Kinetic Blade
While the point of the class may be melee, before level 6 you're essentially spending burn to limit your range. Because of this, I choose to focus on the ranged first, and it sets the foundation for this kinetecist to later be able to launch a blast at high range if desired. Kinetic blade is taken at level 5 as the latest opportunity without also delaying its usefulness.
6th - Celerity
7th - Combat Reflexes, Kinetic Whip(because you also took air second)
8th - Wings of Air
9th - Lunge, Magnetic Infusion
10th - Kinetic Form
11th - Step Up, Wall Infusion
12th - Ride the Blast
Celerity at 6 over wings of air? Well, yes. This build wants to get all of its iterative attacks as soon as possible, and there's no party wizard in this group to hand it to him. Thus, you must be self-sufficient. As this build goes past 7 the whip-control aspect gets better and better, and when it hits level 12 you get ride the blast, which will put you right where you want to be. Positioning is always important in a reach/reflexes build, so this is very important for you.
13th - Following Step, Snake Infusion
14th - Suffocate
15th - Step up and Strike
16th - Expanded Defense(Aether)
17th - Elemental Focus(Electricity), Disintegrating Infusion
18th - Telekinetic Invisibility
19th - Greater Elemental Focus(Electricity), Grappling Infusion
20th - Spell Deflection
At this point you're just building to make you better at what you already do, as well as throw in additional "save or suck/die" things. I would also like to point out that with this build, VMC wizard (School/subschool: Enhancement) is also a good choice. If you decide to take it, the 5 feats you take, in order, are Toughness, Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Lunge, Weapon Focus. Your role with this build will essentially be to make as large a zone as possible of "don't even think about it, punk", and it's a build that doesn't rely on other party members buffing you in order to get it done.
In the third block of text, "force choke" should be strike through.
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@Johnny_Devo: While it's not exactly formatted like the others (different level breaks for discussion), I'm fine with including it, it's been added to the guide.
In the third block of text, "force choke" should be strike through.
Odd, it generally keeps text formatting, added back to the description.
@Johnny_Devo: While it's not exactly formatted like the others (different level breaks for discussion), I'm fine with including it, it's been added to the guide.
Huh. Didnt realize that the break points were important. Those points just seemed important for pointing out different decisions.
How does using a quick runner's shirt let you gather energy and full attack?
This shirt is made of light, gossamer-thin fabric embroidered with arrangements of winged feet.
Once per day as a swift action, the wearer can take an additional move action to move on his turn.
My understanding is that the quick runner's shirt can only be used for movement; that it can't be combined with a standard action for a full attack nor can it be used to gather energy. Is this not how it works? Can it actually be used for other types of move actions? I've always known the shirt was good, but I never put the same value in it others did. If it's possible to get other types of move actions out of it, then it just became a lot more valuable in my opinion.
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Boots of speed should still be really valuable for any non-aerokineticist who chooses to go melee. For a melee kineticist, you'd think it'd be green or even blue. Even Aerokineticist can get some use out of them as it's better to use the boots, instead of taking burn, if it's just a small encounter or a solo encounter; save the burn for the big fights when everyone wants Celerity.
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You might want to put a separate entry for the clear spindle ioun stone + wayfinder combo. The clear spindle gives protection from possession and mental control as per protection from evil. So for the low-low price of 4,500 gp (and a 75% chance) you can become immune to Charm and Dominate spells, or possession from creatures like Shadow Demons or ghosts. Also, if you fail the 75% roll, buy another Wayfinder, not another ioun stone.
[Edit] Decided to go through the item list and just tack on any comments I see here.
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How does using a quick runner's shirt let you gather energy and full attack?
My understanding is that the quick runner's shirt can only be used for movement; that it can't be combined with a standard action for a full attack nor can it be used to gather energy. Is this not how it works? Can it actually be used for other types of move actions? I've always known the shirt was good, but I never put the same value in it others did. If it's possible to get other types of move actions out of it, then it just became a lot more valuable in my opinion.This shirt is made of light, gossamer-thin fabric embroidered with arrangements of winged feet.
Once per day as a swift action, the wearer can take an additional move action to move on his turn.
Much like other moments in life, I was excited by the thought of something being awesome, and lost my ability to read, which happens far more often than I would care to admit. It's still great, I'll just have to change that.
Question about Kinetic blast and damage reduction. Passages from the Core Rulebook FAQ and the Kineticist entry on blasts.
Damage Reduction: How does DR interact with magical effects that deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage?
Although the Bestiary definition of Damage Reduction (page 299) says "The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities," that's actually just referring to damage that isn't specifically called out as being of a particular type, such as fire damage or piercing damage. In other words, DR doesn't protect against "typeless damage" from magical attacks.
However, if a magical attack specifically mentions that it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, DR affects that damage normally, as if it were from a physical weapon. (Otherwise the magical attack might as well not have a damage type, as it would only interface with B/P/S damage in a very few corner cases, such as whether or not an ooze splits from that attack.)
For example, the ice storm spell deals 3d6 points of bludgeoning damage and 2d6 points of cold damage. If you cast ice storm at a group of zombies, the zombie's DR 5/slashing protects them against 5 points of the spell's bludgeoning damage. Their DR doesn't help them against the spell's cold damage because DR doesn't apply to energy attacks.
All damage from a kinetic blast is treated as magic for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction.
I'm not sure how those two different statements are supposed to interact. Is the latter only to say that blasts would overcome DR/magic, specifically? (which implies they could hit incorporeal creatures, too) So my earth blasts would overcome DR/magic, DR/B or P or S, as well as DR/Magic,[B/P/S]? This should probably be obvious, but figuring out DR interactions has always been a thorn in my side.
And I tried to come up with a joke about DR and thorns doing piercing damage, but I don't think anyone'll be upset I dropped it.
Here is a question that I do not recall seeing answered (or even asked) anywhere:
Many/most composite blasts do damage of two types, with half being one type and half another type. If the damage roll is an odd number, how is that last point of damage allocated to a damage type?
Generally speaking you round down.
Question about Kinetic blast and damage reduction. Passages from the Core Rulebook FAQ and the Kineticist entry on blasts.
Damage Reduction: How does DR interact with magical effects that deal bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage?
Although the Bestiary definition of Damage Reduction (page 299) says "The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities," that's actually just referring to damage that isn't specifically called out as being of a particular type, such as fire damage or piercing damage. In other words, DR doesn't protect against "typeless damage" from magical attacks.
However, if a magical attack specifically mentions that it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, DR affects that damage normally, as if it were from a physical weapon. (Otherwise the magical attack might as well not have a damage type, as it would only interface with B/P/S damage in a very few corner cases, such as whether or not an ooze splits from that attack.)
For example, the ice storm spell deals 3d6 points of bludgeoning damage and 2d6 points of cold damage. If you cast ice storm at a group of zombies, the zombie's DR 5/slashing protects them against 5 points of the spell's bludgeoning damage. Their DR doesn't help them against the spell's cold damage because DR doesn't apply to energy attacks.All damage from a kinetic blast is treated as magic for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction.I'm not sure how those two different statements are supposed to interact. Is the latter only to say that blasts would overcome DR/magic, specifically? (which implies they could hit incorporeal creatures, too) So my earth blasts would overcome DR/magic, DR/B or P or S, as well as DR/Magic,[B/P/S]? This should probably be obvious, but figuring out DR interactions has always been a thorn in my side....
When a weapon gains one of the qualifiers to overcome DR, it always applies.
So if it's treated as magic for the purpose over overcoming DR, then anytime "magic" is one of the necessary components to overcoming DR, it will work for it.
So, assuming a geokinetic has the rare metal infusion, he can overcome DR/magic, DR/B/P/S DR/Silver/Adamantine/Cold Iron and any combination of those.
So he'll overcome DR/Magic, Cold Iron, Bludgeoning or DR/Adamantine, Slashing, or DR/Silver etc.
When it comes to figuring out DR, just think of anything that overcomes the DR as one 'component' in a formula. Either you have the component, or you don't, and if you have all of the components, then you succeed.
Technically, being treated as magic for purposes of bypassing DR isn't the same as being a magic weapon. Depending on abilities/defenses/etc, it could matter.
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Technically, being treated as magic for purposes of bypassing DR isn't the same as being a magic weapon. Depending on abilities/defenses/etc, it could matter.
This is even more relevant when creatures that have DR/Magic are often considered to have their strikes counted as magic when attacking.
Since all physical blast are 'magic', a bludgeoning physical blast from a geokineticist could get through a lich's DR of bludgeoning and magic. If it was like some weird lich that also needed silver, rare-metal could help break through that too.
Yet another reason I'd say earth is my favorite element.
It's also worth noting that magic weapons with a +x, I'm not sure the value atm, bypass b/p/s dr. If your +5, you bypass adamantine. There's a few steps between. Which makes me wonder if our +1 per die for melee blasts counts as an enhancement bonus. And or if anything can add an enhancement bonus to our blasts.
It doesn't. It isn't listed as an enhancement bonus. It is a very specific "thing" mechanically.
I think what was confusing me was how people talk about magic weapons overcoming DR, when it's specifically the different levels of enhancement bonus letting that happen, not just the fact that the weapon's magic.
Thanks for the help folks!
DR Type Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent
Cold iron / silver +3
Adamantine* +4
Alignment-based +5
It's also worth noting that Elemental Overflow is not an enhancement bonus, but rather a stackable untyped bonus to attack and damage, and eventually size bonuses to your ability scores.
The cool thing about the darkness and greater darkness infusion is that every square is considered to be the center of the effect, so you are shooting 20ft radius cylinders of darkness with every shot, or some cool thematic things with kinetic blade/whip, heck depending on your interpretation of conductive you might be able so send darkness cylinders like 1/4 mile long. Conductive weapons might be a bit better now too with 3 new possible energy composites(negative/fire, negative/lighting, negative/cold).
Also was it a typo for the void defense to not get better with levels?
The wood one looks like a lot of fun too, but I'm a hair disappointed that there isn't a double wood composite blast, though having 4 seasonal blasts is pretty cool.
Void defense is not a typo; it improves with burn, not with level (the ones that improve with both level and burn either are either measured in points of damage, which needs to scale by level to stay relevant, or are replicable with items, so a little scaling by level helps them stay in pace with the items they replace; it just so happens that this includes everything except emptiness).
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Undead can't accept burn, so you need to pay the bill or use buffer. If you're into a minor bit of homebrew, you could probably make a void chirurgeon pretty easily by shifting chirurgeon around a little to work with void healer (to get the double capacity buffer), or go a bit further for an undead void chirurgeon and say that your void chirurgeon can also take overwhelming soul, in which case it doubles the mental prowess pool instead of buffer size.
here is a thread Mark that brings up a good question. Any input?
Pushing should work like it does for other things with a center. Pulling technically has slightly different wording in that it pulls them towards "you" because explaining for lots of different shapes probably wouldn't fit. Making it the "reverse" of pushing seems reasonable to me and is what I've been doing with the chaokineticist in my home game.
Pushing should work like it does for other things with a center. Pulling technically has slightly different wording in that it pulls them towards "you" because explaining for lots of different shapes probably wouldn't fit. Making it the "reverse" of pushing seems reasonable to me and is what I've been doing with the chaokineticist in my home game.
So it wouldn't work with singularity?
What about fragmentation on the secondary targets, where the fragments have a distinct direction of 'pushing' outward with the shrapnel pieces instead of being an aoe like cloud or deadly earth? So a pushing would push them outward and a pulling would suck them in towards the center.
And a pushing/pulling snake would work off the direction it snaked from, correct?
Hey something I'd like to see in your guide is in the Archetype section you list all the archetypes with a color, but I'm not aware of anywhere that you list the base class with a color. I think it'd be nice if in the archetype section you had a 1 line with normal as the color you'd rate it for an archetype.
So, origins is out, and chaos seems to be a pretty awesome element, at least as a secondary. Negative admixture does do damage as a composite energy blast, so fire/chaos is much more viable than fire/fire. Getting a real composite with your first expanded element is critically important, and fire/chaos can at least fall back on two different energy type simple blasts.
Some of the chaos infusions are pretty weak. Enervating at first seems awesome, 1 negative level whenever you hit with a negative energy blast, but its level 7, 4 burn, with fort negates. Its just so much weaker than the spell that even being aoe doesn't help.
Singularity is really good. Level 4, 3 burn, semi-persistent aoe. Target a grid intersection, and first turn is 5 ft burst, second 10, third 15. 1/4 damage (1/2 energy) though. But its interesting in that it looks like you can overlap them. So if you can catch the enemy in a chokepoint, you can do a ton of damage.
Darkness and Greater Darkness seem to be better in theory than might be in practice, at least for PCs. Unless your entire party can counter the vision condition, creating darkness effects can be really counterproductive.
Basic chaokinesis is solid. Playing a light sensitive race, no problem. 50% boosted carrying capacity, and +4 to jump checks.
Solid set of wild talents too. Darkvision then See in darkness, flame jet style flight, no breath at level 2 is nice, suffocate(which I consider one of the best wild talents), and a really nice 9th (though I doubt it will come up much as chaos/x/chaos seems a bit weak so you pretty much would be working with a gravity/x/y tri-element, which seems viable) in gravity master.
Edit: Do note that mark clarified that negative admixture only works with universal infusions, so that makes tri-energy pretty much unviable, since the lack of substance infusions really hurts.
You forgot the murder elementals! How could your forget the MURDER ELEMENTALS!?
I am particularly fond of setting up a wall where the enemy is standing, then setting a pulling singularity in front of it so it sucks people out again, and then I blast them back into both effects with pushing infusion. Rinse and repeat.
That damage REALLY adds up!
I am particularly fond of setting up a wall where the enemy is standing, then setting a pulling singularity in front of it so it sucks people out again, and then I blast them back into both effects with pushing infusion. Rinse and repeat.
That damage REALLY adds up!
That's why I'm looking forward to my (super late) potential of laying down some swift infusions with standard infusions and dropping a grappling wall with an entangling deadly earth. If they both succeed then you can't break both in your single round and you're still stuck taking 1/2 damage from 2 aoe for full damage total which can reapply or reinforce their grasp on you. If both reapply then I can move on to blast or cloud another target while you continue to fail at getting out of my aoe entrapment.
Void defense is not a typo; it improves with burn, not with level (the ones that improve with both level and burn either are either measured in points of damage, which needs to scale by level to stay relevant, or are replicable with items, so a little scaling by level helps them stay in pace with the items they replace; it just so happens that this includes everything except emptiness).
If I may, what are your thoughts on Searing Flesh? It seems really poor in comparison to the other defenses, and not worth the burn to me.
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I hope that the following information can be useful: I've exhamined and rated every elemental defense, including the two new for Void and Wood, considering every defense both with and without burn points and taking in consideration wild talents that have each elemental defense as a prerequisite, in an attempt to find out what is the best defense.
Totals are expressed in a range from 1 to 10, which is the average value based on the following three criteria:
no burn, is the defense as it is with no burn point allocated;
with burn, a rating that considers the bonus gained for each point of burn invested and how much is useful the defense at capped values;
burn burst, this rating is for the "burst" a kineticist gets for the round when using a wild talent of the same element.
Each of these paramethers are ranked with stars(*), from 1 to 5.
no burn ** bonus is too small and situational.
with burn *** can shut down archers and the like. What is good here, is the max cap (75%), which is very high making a kineticist virtually immune to ranged physical attacks
burn burst *** great bonus, can even deflect other kinetic blasts. GMs might be tempted to metagame and stop focusing on you while it lasts which can be good for you or bad for your teammates
Wild talents with Enveloping Winds as a prerequisite
Aerial Evasion ***** evasion paired with kineticist' excellent reflexes means immunity to AoE
Engulfing Winds ** losing the defense bonus for a wind wall is not a good trade, unless when encountering a large number of archers or the like (which doesn't happen often). It is Burn free though
Other considerations
Enveloping Winds is very helpful for melee kineticist, but in any other cases most of the kineticists won't find useful to invest Burn in it.
no burn ***** DR that scales with level is always good, also enemies with adamantine or +5 weapons are very rare
bonus per burn ** as a single defense it may be good, but too much HP are lost in effort to resist more only against physical attacks. Good news, it also useful against other physical-attacking kineticists
burn burst *** DR against all but adamantine is already enough most of the times
Wild talents with Flesh of Stone as a prerequisite
Jagged Flesh ** very effective in those encounters with multiple-attacking monsters with no DR, but not always worth the point of burn it costs
Other considerations
damage reduction is a good way to mitigate the loss of HP by burn, but remember that your kineticist may be damaged by energy attacks also, so beware putting too much burn in this defense especially late in high level games. The best thing about FoS is that is great on its own without burn.
no burn ***** temp HP that regenerates in minutes? Yes please. An ability that prevents triggering secondary effects which don't go over those hp? Awesome!!!
bonus per burn **** investing two points in it means no HP loss, with a small HP pool that heals over time and elemental overflow bonuses without hindrances! This is the most suited defense to invest burn in the morning up to elemental overflow desired bonus
burn burst **** temp HP immediately heals a bit
Wild talents with Force Ward as a prerequisite
Force Barrier ** area is not great along with the short duration renders it difficult to use. In most situations your kineticist won't be using it
Telekinetic Globe ** telekinetic sphere is a good spell, but: first, to avoid concentrating every turn a burn is required. Second, Force barrier wild talent is a prerequisite. Third, telekinetic hand can lift more.
Other considerations
Note that there is not hard cap for burning. Gaining temp HP from it for each burn, translates in pumping this defense with Burn, up to elemental overflow max bonus (plus one, Force Ward do it better with an even number of burn points)
no burn * damage is too low, cannot bypass even Fire Resistance 5. Incinerate arrows only after they have hit
bonus per burn *** increased damage per burn, up to 7 times, which translates to double kineticist level of fire damage. This makes monsters to die while attacking and weapons to break down. The price to be paid is high though
burn burst **** damage is increased again. This serves perfectly as a deterrent for monsters that wants to attack you in melee
Wild talents with Searing Flesh as a prerequisite
Flame Shield *** extra damage which applies to all non-reach melee attack and damage halved by cold-based attacks along with evasion for those attacks is sweet.
Heat Wave *** this is the best defense the fire element has to offer, along with some debuffing. This has unlimited duration, but a kineticist using this must remember to switch it off after every encounter to avoid hindering your party with heat
Other considerations
fire is not a natural defensive element for the kineticist. It is easy though for GMs to metagame monster combat, knowing how much damage is done with searing flesh, which can be good or bad thing so be prepared to talk about it. Fire also is the only element at the moment that has a wild talent usable as an Immediate Action and costing burn, comboing well with searing flesh burst.
no burn **** saves money and equipment slots. Any kineticist will always benefit from the shield bonus. However, it's replaceable by equipment at higher levels and kineticist are not really gold-starving
bonus per burn *** even more AC! the really good thing about it, is that a kineticist may interchange from armor to shield and benefit from burn point in excess. Beware, to keep on pair with magical equipment bonuses burn must used
burn burst * having both armor and shield bonus are not needed, the equipment should be doing this, and your kineticist' AC should not rely on taking burn every round of combat
Wild talents with Shroud of Water as a prerequisite
Cold Snap *** a good debuffer with solid area and unlimited duration. As with Heat Wave, remember to switch it off, and stay away from your party members
Shimmering Mirage ***** concealment bonus is low and does not scale, but it is always on. Concealment can be used also for Stealth skill
Other considerations
This defense can save your kineticist money from bracers of armors, ring of force shield or simply magic armors and shields. The armor or shield bonus is higher than the magical equipment counterpart when investing burn, but losing HP for some more AC may not be the right investment. The real winner here is Shimmering image
no burn * bonuses are low and too circumstancial, but negative energy resistance is rare to find and the bonus to will saves helps kineticists a bit. Bonuses does not scale
bonus per burn ** the good thing is that there is no cap for burn
burn burst *** bonus to will saves against all mind effects is really good
Wild talents with Emptiness as a prerequisite
No Breath **** always in effect and does not cost a single point of burn! Your kineticist is now immune to any suffocation effect and cloud or inhaled smoke effects and survive in outer space.
Other considerations
Emptiness bonuses are too small and in most cases unnecessary. No Breath is the gold nugget, proving to be powerful and fun both in and out of combat.
no burn ** having higher AC is always a good thing. This defense begins with a good bonus, but does not scale with kineticist level, forcing burn usage on higher levels. Good news are it is an enhancement bonus, stacking with any existing racial natural armor and rasing AC even more at lower levels
bonus per burn ** the only way to increase that enhancement bonus is taking burn. Question is: is worth losing HP per level for each burn to increase by 1 the natural armor, which could be instead by increased with an amulet of natural armor? Unarmed kineticists will love this defense
burn burst *** burst is OK, but situational
Wild talents with Flesh of Wood as a prerequisite
Thorn Flesh ** very effective in those encounters with multiple-attacking monsters with no DR, but most of the time not worth the point of burn it costs
Other considerations
thorn flesh with jagged flesh and searing flesh can make up for a good retalation-build. Also for 1 to 4 burns, this defense saves your kineticist from buying the Amulet of natural armor
I take this opportunity to say thanks to everyone for their participation in this thread and support, first of all to N.Jolly for the efforts made so far and the great guide made.
Searing flesh
from lv 1-3 you only do 1 damage accepting 7 burn and it still does 1 damage.
from lv 4-7 you do 1 damage and can make it reach 8. Which isn't enough to break hardness of most weapons.
from lv 8-11 you do 2 damage and can reach 16. So if you take 56 - 77 damage you can maybe overcome hardness, depends on if you cut the damage in half since it's energy damage.
I feel not only is it bad it scales super poorly with Burn.
Now if it was 1 point of damage +1 per four levels then it could bump up to workable. But as it you'll never get it to be useful.
Much like other moments in life, I was excited by the thought of something being awesome, and lost my ability to read, which happens far more often than I would care to admit. It's still great, I'll just have to change that.How does using a quick runner's shirt let you gather energy and full attack?
My understanding is that the quick runner's shirt can only be used for movement; that it can't be combined with a standard action for a full attack nor can it be used to gather energy. Is this not how it works? Can it actually be used for other types of move actions? I've always known the shirt was good, but I never put the same value in it others did. If it's possible to get other types of move actions out of it, then it just became a lot more valuable in my opinion.This shirt is made of light, gossamer-thin fabric embroidered with arrangements of winged feet.
Once per day as a swift action, the wearer can take an additional move action to move on his turn.
yeah being able to charge, blast, and move in the same round is pretty nice.
Searing flesh
from lv 1-3 you only do 1 damage accepting 7 burn and it still does 1 damage.
from lv 4-7 you do 1 damage and can make it reach 8. Which isn't enough to break hardness of most weapons.
from lv 8-11 you do 2 damage and can reach 16. So if you take 56 - 77 damage you can maybe overcome hardness, depends on if you cut the damage in half since it's energy damage.I feel not only is it bad it scales super poorly with Burn.
Now if it was 1 point of damage +1 per four levels then it could bump up to workable. But as it you'll never get it to be useful.
Level 1-7: You deal 1 point of damage per hit, and each point of burn increases damage with a 1:1 ratio to a maximum 8 points of damage per hit. This requires a con score of at least 18 to fully charge and remains the same minimum cons core for the rest of your career.
Level 8-11*: You deal 2 points of damage per hit, and each point of burn increases damage with a 1:2 ratio to a maximum 16 points of damage per hit.
Level 12-15*: You deal 3 points of damage per hit, and each point of burn increases damage with a 1:3 ratio to a maximum of 24 points of damage per hit.
Level 16-19*: You deal 4 points of damage per hit, and each point of burn increases damage with a 1:4 ratio to a maximum of 32 points of damage per hit.
Level 20*: You deal 5 points of damage per hit, and each point of burn increases damage with a 1:5 ration to a maximum of 40 points of damage per hit.
*From level 11 onward, the pyrokineticist could take Flame Shield in order to add half his kineticist level (minimum 5, maximum 10) to the damage dealt on a hit by a non-reach melee attack.
From levels 8-11 is the first point you could actually damage melee weapons, and even then, only weapons with a hardness of 7 or lower (half damage of 8, metal weapons have a hardness of 10, wood has a hardness of 5). However, it should be noted that as your level, and damage, increases, so too does the hardness of the melee weapons, and their hitpoints as more and more enemies use magical weapons. You'll still be able to damage them, and very possibly eventually break them.
For example, a regular longsword has hardness 10 and 5 hp, whereas a +5 longsword has hardness 20 and 55 hp. Contrarywise, a +5 club has hardness 15 and 55 hp. This means that even at level 20, a pyrokineticist will never be able to even damage a +5 longsword, but he could, conceivably, destroy a +5 club given enough time hits.
Personally, I think the pyrokineticist needs a wild talent specifically for his kinetic defense. Something like...
Flesh of the Inferno
Element(s) fire Type utility (su) Level 5 Burn 0Your searing flesh kinetic defense becomes an inferno. The flames of your searing flesh are halved before being applied to hardness, and the damage dealt is applied to the weapons before they hit. If the damage dealt is enough to destroy the weapon or incoming projectile before it would hit you, you take no damage and it is treated as a miss.
This would let a high level pyrokineticist do things like incinerate the arrows of low-level archers, or even belt bullets and weapons from non-magical weapons and the like. Very thematic, very badass, and it would make the pyrokinetic's kinetic defense something to truly fear.
[Edit] By the way, Mark, if you're ever looking for a new talent for the pyrokineticist, you and Paizo absolutely, 100%, have my permission to use this talent with no credit or anything necessary for me. *hint hint* *wink wink*
Level 1-7: You deal 1 point of damage per hit, and each point of burn increases damage with a 1:1 ratio to a maximum 8 points of damage per hit. This requires a con score of at least 18 to fully charge and remains the same minimum cons core for the rest of your career.Searing flesh
from lv 1-3 you only do 1 damage accepting 7 burn and it still does 1 damage.
from lv 4-7 you do 1 damage and can make it reach 8. Which isn't enough to break hardness of most weapons.
from lv 8-11 you do 2 damage and can reach 16. So if you take 56 - 77 damage you can maybe overcome hardness, depends on if you cut the damage in half since it's energy damage.I feel not only is it bad it scales super poorly with Burn.
Now if it was 1 point of damage +1 per four levels then it could bump up to workable. But as it you'll never get it to be useful.
This part is incorrect let's read the ability. "By accepting 1 point of burn, you can increase this damage by 1 point per 4 kineticist levels you possess until the next time your burn is removed." at lv1-3 you don't have 4 kineticist levels, so it gives you 0, because it doesn't have a (min 1) in it.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32
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With all this talk of pyrokineticist defense wild talents, I have some sincere questions:
How often is the pyrokineticist getting attacked by weapons rather than natural attacks? Even at low levels, if you're getting hit, I feel like there's a decent chance that you get to toast some zombies or hostile wildlife that just attacked you. Even in an area with humanoid populations, there will probably be a beasty or two that can't or won't use a sword.
Second, it seems odd to me that people want better defenses for a pyrokineticist, when ostensibly you're playing one because you want to play a style with heavy offense. Your defense isn't great, but I would think this is the choice for the kineticist who doesn't want to get hit at all, but relies more on reliable and intense damage rather than distance like an air-focused kineticist. I guess this really isn't a question yet. :-P
The question here is, I suppose: Why do y'all wanna see more defensive boosts for the pyro? Aside from just wanting it all for your favorite elements, that is. Even with a focus on increasing or augmenting the pyro's offense-as-defense theme, is there a build or play style that y'all feel is lacking for the pyro that would make you choose retaliatory defense options instead of the pyro's already extensive ranged and AoE offensive options?
if it was a little bit better I think it'd work to make a grappling pyrokineticist
Look at it this way: Compared to the others, which would you be more likely to actually use burn with?
I hope that the following information can be useful: I've exhamined and rated every elemental defense, including the two new for Void and Wood, considering every defense both with and without burn points and taking in consideration wild talents that have each elemental defense as a prerequisite, in an attempt to find out what is the best defense.
This is great. The only think I don't agree on is mixing jagged flesh, thorn flesh, and searing flesh together. That's 2d6+4 20 2d6+22 if you get hit, and only at level 15, if you spend talents to get the defenses and feats to get the extra talents(jagged/thron). But if you don't get hit my non-reach melee, you just screwed yourself.
stuffabout wood defence.
take note, that amulet of natural armor, and barkskin are both enhancement bonuses to natural ac, so neither will stack with this.
so your "instead of taking burn buy amulet" comment doesnt actually apply
I know they don't stack, as I wrote just before the part you quoted. What I were trying to say, in a bad way, is "buy an amulet instead of using FoW at all".
Sure, FoW can even surpass the amulet bonus, but at the price of too many HPs, so in most cases is not worth the effort.
This is great. The only think I don't agree on is mixing jagged flesh, thorn flesh, and searing flesh together. That's 2d6+4 20 2d6+22 if you get hit, and only at level 15, if you spend talents to get the defenses and feats to get the extra talents(jagged/thron). But if you don't get hit my non-reach melee, you just screwed yourself.
Thanks.
I don't like Thorn Flesh/Jagged Flesh at all, I've suggested the retaliation build because I saw it in play and it was quite effective against monsters (DR from earth was mitigating all damage the character was taking, while inflicting a good amount of damage).But you are right, is not a worthwhile investment both in terms of wild talents and burn to be taken.
With all this talk of pyrokineticist defense wild talents, I have some sincere questions:
How often is the pyrokineticist getting attacked by weapons rather than natural attacks? Even at low levels, if you're getting hit, I feel like there's a decent chance that you get to toast some zombies or hostile wildlife that just attacked you. Even in an area with humanoid populations, there will probably be a beasty or two that can't or won't use a sword.
Second, it seems odd to me that people want better defenses for a pyrokineticist, when ostensibly you're playing one because you want to play a style with heavy offense. Your defense isn't great, but I would think this is the choice for the kineticist who doesn't want to get hit at all, but relies more on reliable and intense damage rather than distance like an air-focused kineticist. I guess this really isn't a question yet. :-P
The question here is, I suppose: Why do y'all wanna see more defensive boosts for the pyro? Aside from just wanting it all for your favorite elements, that is. Even with a focus on increasing or augmenting the pyro's offense-as-defense theme, is there a build or play style that y'all feel is lacking for the pyro that would make you choose retaliatory defense options instead of the pyro's already extensive ranged and AoE offensive options?
Honestly? I just really like the idea of a high level kineticist just incinerating the attacks of muggles before they even get to him. It seems like a highly thematic thing for a pyrokineticist who, basically, walks around wrapped in flames. I imagine it would look something like this clip from Metal Gear Solid V's opening.
Even just a wild talent that lets the damage be applied to weapons before they hit would be great. I mean, at 12th level a pyrokineticist could, at this point, pump 5 burn into his defense (18 damage per hit), which gets halved to 9 damage. This means the common rabble shooting at him with bows will see their arrows get incinerated before they even touch him.
I just kind of want to see the pyrokinetic's kinetic defense beefed up a little, even if it means taking a wild talent to do so. This kind of defense would keep it in theme of making creatures not want to hit the pyrokineticist, without repercussions.
Imagine going up against a guy like this as a PC. You should have a +3 weapon at this point, so you've increased the hardness by +6, and it has +30 more HP. Even better if you have an adamantine (1/3 more hp, hardness 20) or mithral (hardness 15). A +3 longsword has hardness 16 and 35 hp; one made of mithral has hardness 21 and 35 hp, while one made of adamantine has hardness 26 and 36 hp (or 46, depending on how it's figured).
A pyrokineticist would with my above theoretical wild talent would be unable to damage the adamantine longsword, barely scratch the mithral longsword, deals 8 points of damage to the longsword. Even an arrow fired from a +3 longbow would survive to hit (arrow would have hardness 11 and 32 hp) so it's not like it will shut down PC or NPC archers with magic weapons. It would just give serious pause the melee attackers.
[Edit] Again, keep in mind, this is a kineticist who is spending, nearly, all of his daily burn on bumping his kinetic defense. Starting with an 18 con, this pyrokineticist should (without purchasing books or genie/wish shenanigans) have somewhere in the realm of 24-26 Con, meaning a maximum amount of 11 burn per day. So he's got 4 left to make it through all of his encounters.
With all this talk of pyrokineticist defense wild talents, I have some sincere questions:
How often is the pyrokineticist getting attacked by weapons rather than natural attacks? Even at low levels, if you're getting hit, I feel like there's a decent chance that you get to toast some zombies or hostile wildlife that just attacked you. Even in an area with humanoid populations, there will probably be a beasty or two that can't or won't use a sword.
Second, it seems odd to me that people want better defenses for a pyrokineticist, when ostensibly you're playing one because you want to play a style with heavy offense. Your defense isn't great, but I would think this is the choice for the kineticist who doesn't want to get hit at all, but relies more on reliable and intense damage rather than distance like an air-focused kineticist. I guess this really isn't a question yet. :-P
The question here is, I suppose: Why do y'all wanna see more defensive boosts for the pyro? Aside from just wanting it all for your favorite elements, that is. Even with a focus on increasing or augmenting the pyro's offense-as-defense theme, is there a build or play style that y'all feel is lacking for the pyro that would make you choose retaliatory defense options instead of the pyro's already extensive ranged and AoE offensive options?Honestly? I just really like the idea of a high level kineticist just incinerating the attacks of muggles before they even get to him. It seems like a highly thematic thing for a pyrokineticist who, basically, walks around wrapped in flames. I imagine it would look something like this clip from Metal Gear Solid V's opening.
Even just a wild talent that lets the damage be applied to weapons before they hit would be great. I mean, at 12th level a pyrokineticist could, at this point, pump 5 burn into his defense (18 damage per hit), which gets halved to 9 damage. This means the common rabble shooting at him with bows will...
Find a way to get access to windwall, and thematically you have the same effect. Theme is all well and good, but there are often multiple ways to do something. And those ways don't require new and possibly odd rules and mechanics interactions beyond the vacuum we envision them in.
Not to mention damaging possible loot is hardly ever a good idea ;)
That brings a question to mind, sorry if slightly off topic. Does a bow with an enhancement bonus convey the extra hardness and hp to arrows fired from it?