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The only classes I want to see now are Ultimate Prestige, where they take prestige classes and make them base classes. So we can build Arcane Tricksters, Theurges, Dragon Disciples, Lorenasters, Shadowdancers, and tons of others.I'd rather see prestige classes turned into archetypes.
Some can be, some can't be.
The Battle Herald in theory can be (of the Cavalier), although thematically I kinda feel like the BH staying a Prestige Class makes sense - you're a high-ranking officer like a Captain, Corporal, Major, or even General. Not being that until lv6 makes sense - before then (as a Cavalier), you're a Sargent or Lieutenant at best.
The Rage Prophet basically needs to be its own Class. It's whole shtick is so involved that no single class could really replicate it, barring MAYBE the Warpriest; if the Warpriest traded out Sacred Weapon for Rage, Improved Rage, and Greater Rage, traded out Bonus Combat Feats for a Rage Power every 3rd level, and traded out Sacred Armor for an ability that let you cast Spells while Raging, then I could see it working out.
The Stalwart Defender might be doable as an Archetype, but again it's so involved with being an Anti-Barbarian that it might have to end up being an Alternate Class of the Barbarian, honestly. And at that point, why bother making it an Alternate, and just make it a straight-up separate Class altogether.
The Master Spy should be the Vigilante, hands down. So, the Master Spy should be a Base Class.
The Shadow Dancer, therefore, should be an Archetype of the Vigilante. Trading out the Master of Disguise aspect of the Master Spy and subbing in TONS of abilities focused around shadows, like Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Meld, summoning Shadow creatures, etc. would fit fine as an Archetype.
The Holy Vindicator could really go either way. Honestly, maybe the Holy Vindicator is how you make a Chaotic Good Paladin - it's a Blood Knight both in theme AND in practice (pun intended). Obviously swap out Auras for more Chaos and Battle based ones (more like the Antipaladin), and replace Lay on Hands & Mercies with Stigmata and effects that activate when someone is hit with your Stigmata.
The Master Chymist is... well, it's kinda already covered by the Vivisectionist and/or Beastmorph archetypes.
If they make the Vigilante into a Spontaneous-Alchemy-based Master Spy like I've said elsewhere, then the Master Chymist is just ACHING to be an Archetype for that - you retain the Alchemy, and the whole Jekyll & Hyde thing is exactly what Dual Identities could be mutated into.
The Horizon Walker could just as easily be an archetype of the Ranger, really. Replace Spellcasting and Favored Enemy with Terrain Mastery/Dominance and more instances of Favored Terrain and... you're pretty much good to go right there. Give it Endurance instead of Track at lv1, and that's pretty much everything the Prestige Class has to offer.
The Mystic Theurge pretty much HAS to be its own Class, but I did show how it COULD be an archetype of the Master-Spy-made-Vigilante - if the Vigilante has Spontaneous Alchemy, you just replace the Extracts Known with a spell list of Arcane and Divine Spells Known that have to be kept balanced at even levels, and you just cast them spontaneously through the same spell slots. Replace several/all of the Diguise-based abilities with abilities that work based on the nature of the spells you cast (Arcane or Divine), and you've got the Theurge.
I'd still prefer it as a Base Class, but since "cast both Divine AND Arcane spells" is its entire bag of tricks, it's easy to place into any caster class as an Archetype, honestly.
The Arcane Trickster SHOULD probably be an Archetype, and... honestly I don't think it should be Arcane. Bear with me, but I do think it should probably be a Psychic class.
The Mesmerist could easily be a Trickster, or, once again, if the Vigilante class were based on the Master Spy with Alchemy, it could trade out its Alchemy for the Mesmerist spell list, and it could prepare Psychic Spells Known & cast Psychic Spells the same way an Arcanist prepares & casts Arcane spells.
Then again, the Trickster could also honestly be its own Class entirely. It's pretty substantially-different than the Mesmerist, and it's really one of the more-unique Prestige Classes out there.
A Hybrid Class of the Rogue/Mesmerist would probably yield a pretty-perfect Trickster.
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The Loremaster and Pathfinder Chronicler are... yeah.
They're kinda just... there.
I guess the Chronicler could be made into a... Bard?... archetype.
And the Loremaster is kinda... well, let's just give some of its tricks to the Arcanist and call it a day. The Arcanist kinda already fills its thematic role in a more-badass way than the Loremaster does anyway.
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Oh! I forgot to mention those! The New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press (did I mention it has 14 out of 14 5-star reviews? :) also has a nature-based, spontaneous caster, the shaman (and yes, the New Paths shaman came out more than a year before the Paizo shaman :) AND it has the skin-Changer class
And just like that, my 1st party purity is gone.
Edit: skin-changer is rad, but it's mostly a wild shape variant ranger. What I'm looking for is more of a hybrid form monstrosity with a Bloody Roar vibe. All the more reason to try homebrewing the Druid/Barbarian ACG style hybrid that's been sitting on my to-do list.
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Ok, fine, if there's only ONE more class to be added... and to make it 40, a nice round number, I could see an Engineer/Tinkerer/Artificer class. Basically, there's a room for a class that build gadgets that mimic spells, as well as large mech-like armors, vehicles and other steampunk-like contraptions.
I think an Occultist archetype would work as an Artificer. It's already heavily tied to objects. Haven't had a look at the final version yet, but from the playtest it looked like you could trade the magic circle drawing stuff for crafting abilities and it would work pretty well.
I think an Occultist archetype would work as an Artificer. It's already heavily tied to objects. Haven't had a look at the final version yet, but from the playtest it looked like you could trade the magic circle drawing stuff for crafting abilities and it would work pretty well.
Not really... Occultist has no link to crafting what so ever. I mean, you could homebrew an archetype but it would change the flavour and mechanics of the class so much that you may as well have made a new class.
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I think an Occultist archetype would work as an Artificer. It's already heavily tied to objects. Haven't had a look at the final version yet, but from the playtest it looked like you could trade the magic circle drawing stuff for crafting abilities and it would work pretty well.Not really... Occultist has no link to crafting what so ever. I mean, you could homebrew an archetype but it would change the flavour and mechanics of the class so much that you may as well have made a new class.
This seems to be a thing for you, but see: I'm not the only one. 3.5 Artificer was pretty bland, and didn't really have any class features to speak of besides "I just can craft anything I want, ever, super cheaply, and also use it." If we break down the mechanics of Occultist, take away the name and flavor and "psychic" magic and just look at what it does, it does feel like an "Artificer" class. Maybe not the 3.5 Eberron class, but that's not the sole proprietor of the tag "Artificer."
If someone came up to you and asked for you to come up with a name for this class, what would you say?
- Items (magical or otherwise) linked to schools of magic and imbued with power or attuned.
- Ability to pass these around as buffs for party members or keep them and "Voltron" up.
- Some magical ability, but directly tied to the magic items; it has to use the implements as foci or else make relatively difficult concentration checks.
- Gets 1/2 their class level as a bonus to Use Magic Device
- And [an archetype, replacing circle skills with magic item creation stuff] that makes it good at creating magic items.
The flavor as written might be a block, and the magic circles don't really correspond, but I don't see why it'd be too difficult to imagine this as an Artificer.
I hope so. It's become subject to the Too Much is Too Much Rule from TFOS. ;)
I still think we need an archetype of something that focuses on holy lightning. Looking through any divine spell lists, I noticed a serious lack of electricity spells even though it's often associated with the divine either thematically or literally (for example, I'm not a huge fan of the Dark Souls games, but they had an entire school of magic revolving around it).
To quote Tales of the Abyss' Jade Curtiss: "I, who stand in the full light of the heavens, command thee, who opens the gates of hell. Strike, divine lightning! This ends now! INDIGNATION!"
The flavor as written might be a block, and the magic circles don't really correspond, but I don't see why it'd be too difficult to imagine this as an Artificer.
The same reason why some people can't imagine the Ninja class as anything other than oriental.
I just want a 1-20 Hellknight and a Full-BAB Shapeshifter.
I'd like to see a divine blaster for something other than blasting undead.
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I just want a 1-20 Hellknight and a Full-BAB Shapeshifter.
I like the 15-level Hellknight PrC, a lot. The two 10-level ones ... blecch.
I just want a 1-20 Hellknight and a Full-BAB Shapeshifter.
The Feral Hunter is close. 3/4 BAB.
The flavor as written might be a block, and the magic circles don't really correspond, but I don't see why it'd be too difficult to imagine this as an Artificer.The same reason why some people can't imagine the Ninja class as anything other than oriental.
I guess so. I've actually had more players play the Ninja alternate as an "Arcane Trickster" with shuriken reimagined as throwing daggers more than I've had players actually go all out with the Eastern weapons and aesthetic. Samurai are also a bit more common in my groups than Cavaliers, since they can be damn fortresses, and most of the time we just call it a Cavalier. Hell, I have one player who hates the name "Kineticist" and is just calling her character an Elementalist.
Name of the class doesn't really matter.
This seems to be a thing for you, but see: I'm not the only one. 3.5 Artificer was pretty bland, and didn't really have any class features to speak of besides "I just can craft anything I want, ever, super cheaply, and also use it." If we break down the mechanics of Occultist, take away the name and flavor and "psychic" magic and just look at what it does, it does feel like an "Artificer" class. Maybe not the 3.5 Eberron class, but that's not the sole proprietor of the tag "Artificer."
It also had a homunculus minion and the ability to alter objects and constructs (including yourself if you're the correct race) instanteously through infusions.
If someone came up to you and asked for you to come up with a name for this class, what would you say?
- Items (magical or otherwise) linked to schools of magic and imbued with power or attuned.
- Ability to pass these around as buffs for party members or keep them and "Voltron" up.
- Some magical ability, but directly tied to the magic items; it has to use the implements as foci or else make relatively difficult concentration checks.
- Gets 1/2 their class level as a bonus to Use Magic Device
- And [an archetype, replacing circle skills with magic item creation stuff] that makes it good at creating magic items.
The flavor as written might be a block, and the magic circles don't really correspond, but I don't see why it'd be too difficult to imagine this as an Artificer.
Acolyte probably.
Definitely not artificer, doesn't even get the ability to craft a thing till 8th level. Also, probably remove aura sight for something.
The same reason why some people can't imagine the Ninja class as anything other than oriental.
... Yeah, no. I reflavour everything, for godsake I use dwarves as centaurian ants in my game.
This is simply a case of people associating occultist with artificer because they both have a focus on objects and UMD, but otherwise they don't match up. An easier archetype for being an artificer would probably be an alchemist or wizard to be honest, though personally I just use the vizier, so far the best artificer I've seen for PF.
All said, You can use occultist as a crafter, it's a spellcaster so all you have to do is take the feats. But it isn't really an artificer class anymore than sorcerer is.
I'd like to see a divine blaster for something other than blasting undead.
We could combine your idea and mine to make a divine lightning blaster!
I just want a 1-20 Hellknight and a Full-BAB Shapeshifter.The Feral Hunter is close. 3/4 BAB.
The idea was no spells and full-BAB, but that's about as close as I've seen.
I'd like to see a system in which you can make your own class on the fly by point buy. D&D lat 2nd Edition had Player's Option for that, and although it needed some cleaning up, the basic idea was good. Unfortunately 3rd Edition just swept it under the rug.
I'd like to see a system in which you can make your own class on the fly by point buy. D&D lat 2nd Edition had Player's Option for that, and although it needed some cleaning up, the basic idea was good. Unfortunately 3rd Edition just swept it under the rug.
I disagree, I mean, the option for that is on the 3rd edition SRD.
I feel like stating up a shifter class now, but i've made so many at this point i need to consider publishing. XD
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I feel like stating up a shifter class now, but i've made so many at this point i need to consider publishing. XD
Maybe we all can push for Paizo to publish a vigilante option as a full shape shifter warlock. Alter self at Lvl 1, beast shape a the next talent.... Talk about a solid secret identity.
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I disagree, I mean, the option for that is on the 3rd edition SRD.I'd like to see a system in which you can make your own class on the fly by point buy. D&D lat 2nd Edition had Player's Option for that, and although it needed some cleaning up, the basic idea was good. Unfortunately 3rd Edition just swept it under the rug.
Really? I looked through there extensively and didn't see any significant option for this (although they made a rudimentary start at it with the simplified classes that have the same names as the NPC classes). Must be hiding under the rug somewhere . , , ,
I disagree, I mean, the option for that is on the 3rd edition SRD.I'd like to see a system in which you can make your own class on the fly by point buy. D&D lat 2nd Edition had Player's Option for that, and although it needed some cleaning up, the basic idea was good. Unfortunately 3rd Edition just swept it under the rug.
Really? I looked through there extensively and didn't see any significant option for this (although they made a rudimentary start at it with the simplified classes that have the same names as the NPC classes). Must be hiding under the rug somewhere . , , ,
There are rules for making a Monstrous CHARACTER with Point-Buy.
And someone MADE a system for writing up your own class which is fairly balanced - not perfect, but a good springboard nonetheless.
But there is no official rule for building Classes, especially on the fly.
Obviously we need the oozelord class. We have serious lack of ooze based classes!
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Obviously we need the oozelord class. We have serious lack of ooze based classes!
You make be joking, but I agree with the sentiment here at least as far as needed archetypes. The lack of a swarm based archetypes also greatly disturbs me. To this day I get mildly upset when I look over Hive Totem and the short description doesn't say something like, "Turns yo ass into a f*~%ing swarm of pissed off bees."
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You make be joking, but I agree with the sentiment here at least as far as needed archetypes. The lack of a swarm based archetypes also greatly disturbs me. To this day I get mildly upset when I look over Hive Totem and the short description doesn't say something like, "Turns yo ass into a f+#%ing swarm of pissed off bees."Obviously we need the oozelord class. We have serious lack of ooze based classes!
Honestly... I would have preferred an ooze based class rather than vigilantes.
But yeah there are no ooze or swarm based archetypes or alternate companion rules and it makes me a very sad boggard
You make be joking, but I agree with the sentiment here at least as far as needed archetypes. The lack of a swarm based archetypes also greatly disturbs me. To this day I get mildly upset when I look over Hive Totem and the short description doesn't say something like, "Turns yo ass into a f+#%ing swarm of pissed off bees."Obviously we need the oozelord class. We have serious lack of ooze based classes!
Honestly... I would have preferred an ooze based class rather than vigilantes.
But yeah there are no ooze or swarm based archetypes or alternate companion rules and it makes me a very sad boggard
Doesn't the Alchemist already have Discoveries, and maybe even an Archetype, that basically lets it play Pokemon with Ochre Jellies and Gelatinous Cubes?
Doesn't the Alchemist already have Discoveries, and maybe even an Archetype, that basically lets it play Pokemon with Ochre Jellies and Gelatinous Cubes?
YOu can get bottled ooze and there are rules on creating artificial oozes but (correct me if I'm wrong) one is super temporary and the other is incredibly expensive and either way you have no control over the ooze. There is no archetype as far as i know and if things go wrong you can easily get killed by your own ooze.
An alchemist or druid archetype with an ooze companion would be awesome
Really? I looked through there extensively and didn't see any significant option for this (although they made a rudimentary start at it with the simplified classes that have the same names as the NPC classes). Must be hiding under the rug somewhere . , , ,
I was refering to those generic classes, though it seems I was incorrect about them being point buy. Still, make your own class on the fly.
Oh! I forgot to mention those! The New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press (did I mention it has 14 out of 14 5-star reviews? :) also has a nature-based, spontaneous caster, the shaman (and yes, the New Paths shaman came out more than a year before the Paizo shaman :) AND it has the skin-Changer class
Hey, I found out they have that on amazon where I am at. Thanks for mentioning it again.
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Class I'd love to see made official is a Gunslinger/Alchemist hybrid. It seems so fitting, and yet its not a great multiclass concept. In our Skulls and Shackles game, the DM had designed a class like this called the Grenadier, and it's hilariously fun to play.
It's basically a Full BAB, 4th level infusion alchemist, who has a number of unique deeds fueled by Ingenuity. You gain gun training as well, and lose out on poison usage and your mutagen, although you can pick up mutagen through discoveries.
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Class I'd love to see made official is a Gunslinger/Alchemist hybrid. It seems so fitting, and yet its not a great multiclass concept. In our Skulls and Shackles game, the DM had designed a class like this called the Grenadier, and it's hilariously fun to play.
It's basically a Full BAB, 4th level infusion alchemist, who has a number of unique deeds fueled by Ingenuity. You gain gun training as well, and lose out on poison usage and your mutagen, although you can pick up mutagen through discoveries.
I have been jonesing for Gene Starwind for YEARS now...
Obviously we need the oozelord class. We have serious lack of ooze based classes!
Doesn't Cave Druid do close to exactly what you want? I hear in some guides and on these boards that people have even made killer builds with these, and I think that they may even be PFS legal (although the really good stuff is only coming online just before the character has to retire).
Obviously we need the oozelord class. We have serious lack of ooze based classes!
Doesn't Cave Druid do close to exactly what you want? I hear in some guides and on these boards that people have even made killer builds with these, and I think that they may even be PFS legal (although the really good stuff is only coming online just before the character has to retire).
Not really. I know from experience because Puna'chong Sr. has been trying to get me to homebrew something up for him so he can be an ooze druid. Cave doesn't do a whole lot for you until you're up into higher levels, where from my experience most gameplay doesn't happen, and it's kind of sucky to have your thing come online then while most classes have been effectively rocking their schtick for 4-6 levels now. Having an ooze companion day one, with more ooze tricks would be cool; not sure if it'd be a base class, but I also think that having a character that's all about controlling swarms would be fun too. Something focused on fungi, oozes, swarms, and other stuff from the get-go.
Anti-druid/blighter like how we have an Anti-paladin. Deranged Hermit, all squirrels get +1/+1 type stuff.
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Hey, I found out they have that on amazon where I am at. Thanks for mentioning it again.
Oh! I forgot to mention those! The New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press (did I mention it has 14 out of 14 5-star reviews? :) also has a nature-based, spontaneous caster, the shaman (and yes, the New Paths shaman came out more than a year before the Paizo shaman :) AND it has the skin-Changer class
Excellent!
I echo the sentiment of a lot of the class ideas proposed, but there's one that hasn't (at least directly) been stated that I'd love to see Paizo come up with:
A nice, solid, T3 martial.
The only classes I want to see now are Ultimate Prestige, where they take prestige classes and make them base classes. So we can build Arcane Tricksters, Theurges, Dragon Disciples, Lorenasters, Shadowdancers, and tons of others.I'd rather see prestige classes turned into archetypes.Some can be, some can't be.
The Battle Herald in theory can be (of the Cavalier), although thematically I kinda feel like the BH staying a Prestige Class makes sense - you're a high-ranking officer like a Captain, Corporal, Major, or even General. Not being that until lv6 makes sense - before then (as a Cavalier), you're a Sargent or Lieutenant at best.
The Rage Prophet basically needs to be its own Class. It's whole shtick is so involved that no single class could really replicate it, barring MAYBE the Warpriest; if the Warpriest traded out Sacred Weapon for Rage, Improved Rage, and Greater Rage, traded out Bonus Combat Feats for a Rage Power every 3rd level, and traded out Sacred Armor for an ability that let you cast Spells while Raging, then I could see it working out.
The Stalwart Defender might be doable as an Archetype, but again it's so involved with being an Anti-Barbarian that it might have to end up being an Alternate Class of the Barbarian, honestly. And at that point, why bother making it an Alternate, and just make it a straight-up separate Class altogether.
The Master Spy should be the Vigilante, hands down. So, the Master Spy should be a Base Class.
The Shadow Dancer, therefore, should be an Archetype of the Vigilante. Trading out the Master of Disguise aspect of the Master Spy and subbing in TONS of abilities focused around shadows, like Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Meld, summoning Shadow creatures, etc. would fit fine as an Archetype.
The Holy Vindicator could really go either way. Honestly, maybe the Holy Vindicator is how you make a Chaotic Good Paladin - it's a Blood Knight both in theme AND in... etc etc etc
Actually they can be turned into full 20 level Base Classes - check out Prestige Archetypes and Warrior Prestige Archetypes from Purple Duck Games.
I echo the sentiment of a lot of the class ideas proposed, but there's one that hasn't (at least directly) been stated that I'd love to see Paizo come up with:
A nice, solid, T3 martial.
So you're apparently unaware of the Warrior of the Holy Light Paladin or the Skirmisher/Guide Ranger.
Or of the Invulnerable Rager Barbarian.
Or the Slayer.
I echo the sentiment of a lot of the class ideas proposed, but there's one that hasn't (at least directly) been stated that I'd love to see Paizo come up with:
A nice, solid, T3 martial.
So you're apparently unaware of the Warrior of the Holy Light Paladin or the Skirmisher/Guide Ranger.
Or of the Invulnerable Rager Barbarian.
Or the Slayer.
I am pretty sure that none of those make it to T3. They all might be solid, but they don't have the sheer breadth of options that are associated with T3. Take the Barbarian. It is damn good at what it does, but it still only does 1 thing well - moving up to something, and wrecking it's face. It has all the tools to do it's one job reliably, but stick the barbarian in a campaign revolving around a murder mystery and they are going to be a 5th wheel most of the time. That isn't generally the case for T3s.
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Something that should have existed a long time ago... D6, 1/2 BAB divine caster....
I would like to see a full BAB progression class with lots of hitpoints... extra feats, extra weapon training (to make them UNMATCHED in melee), and HUGE bonuses to CMB/CMD...
Also, some abilities to counter casters (to balance things out)...
Kinda like a Fighter, only with less suck.
I would like to see a full BAB progression class with lots of hitpoints... extra feats, extra weapon training (to make them UNMATCHED in melee), and HUGE bonuses to CMB/CMD...
Also, some abilities to counter casters (to balance things out)...
Kinda like a Fighter, only with less suck.
Sounds like you want a Lore Warden/Barbarian gestalt.
Sounds like you want a Lore Warden/Barbarian gestalt.I would like to see a full BAB progression class with lots of hitpoints... extra feats, extra weapon training (to make them UNMATCHED in melee), and HUGE bonuses to CMB/CMD...
Also, some abilities to counter casters (to balance things out)...
Kinda like a Fighter, only with less suck.
Yeah I guess, I just don't like the rage powers for some reason (I do like the idea of more skills though).
I don't know why I dislike barbarians so much... maybe it's the limited use aspect.
I'm a fan of 'always on, passive abilities'. Use per day bugs me.
Ooh, add fast heal to the non-suck Fighter as well, give them actual staying power in a fight!
I mean, if you want something balanced against casters, without having casting, it's gotta have some CRAZY stuff.
-A non-caster shapeshifter class that gains special benefits while transformed.
-A spontaneous cha based caster with druid spell list.
-A gadget based class with bombs and guns.
-A d10, full BA, 6+Int, unarmored(cha based AC) warrior class that was raised in the wild and is focused on one terrain(like Tarzan or Jungle Girl)
-A d6, 1/2 BA wis based divine caster.
-A d8, 2/3 BA, 4+int skills, 6th level cha caster class that focuses on sorcerer bloodline powers.
-A non-caster healer class who's powers come from the positive energy plane, gets lay on hands and channel energy.
-A "dragonrider/dragonmaster" class with 4th level arcane spells that it gains only while near it's dragon.
-A d10, full BA, non-caster "beastmaster" class with magical beast companion.
-A monster class that gains many monster traits and abilities.
-A d10, full BA psychic based class.
-A non-caster telepath based class.
-A non-caster class that is completely focused on bardic music and has a long list of abilities it can choose.
-A martial class that creates it's weapon from it's soul, mind, life force, blood, latent magic, etc.
-A martial class that uses hexes.
I would buy a book with all the spells in it, another with all the feats and traits.
As would I, but they would have to re-release that every time new spells and feats came out...
Of course, in the digital age, a PDF document would work just as well, with paid customers getting updated version for free...
I would buy a book with all the spells in it, another with all the feats and traits.
That would seem to be rather problematic buy considering how often new options are added. Until the game dies you can't have a "definitive" list of any of those things. Could I interest you in going to d20pfsrd or Archive of Nethys on your phone instead?