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Just stopping by for the dot.


Is it a deal breaker if I've read the modules? I'm running a heavily modified Kingmaker set in Azlant at the moment, but Kingmaker is probably my favorite AP. I have some really fun concepts but I figure it's better to ask before I start going in depth with them.


Le Quatrième Voile wrote:

Wyssal: My bad, I'm usually such a good copy pasta chef

JDPhipps: I don't remember reading that the Gardeners worship Norgorber. I can't remember any explicit connections between the two, but it sounds reasonable that some amongst their rank might worship him. The only alignment ban for our game is on CE, and our Isarn certainly has more than a little influence by the Reaper of Reputation. Savvy readers may have already discovered clues.

The feats you bring up that have Power Attack as prerequisites are both STR based feats, mechanically and thematically, so we won't allow Piranha Strike to fill in. You can certainly use the feats normally though.

The connection largely stems from the fact that pretty much every Gray Gardener that's been written up as an NPC is an Inquisitor or Norgorber; it's not to say the entire organization is connected to them, but it seems to be something that's hinted at. Also, a lot of his archetypes seem perfectly tailored for a Gray Gardener character.

That's fair on the feats, just figured I'd ask. Power Attack and Cornugon Smash only need 13 Strength so it isn't terrible.


Every time I've tried to ask my questions my Internet dies...

I have two questions for you. I'm still interested in my Gray Gardener defector, but I was wondering for a bit about deity choices. Gray Gardeners often worship Norgorber and I was wondering if you'd be fine with that. You didn't mention anything about alignment so I wanted to ask; the character works as LE or TN, but I wanted to ask before I started working on it. Norgorber fits thematically but also he has some excellent traits and abilities you can get that fit very well for this character concept.

My other question is if you'd allow a slight change to the Cornugon Smash/Dreadful Carnage feats? My character is built to mostly work as a Dexterity-based combatant with a lot of social abilities on top, but I was really interested in an Intimidate build for combat. However, you really need to be Strength-based for that. Would you consider allowing Piranha Strike to act as a prerequisite for Cornugon Smash/Dreadful Carnage and use Dexterity instead of Strength for the requirements? It effectively works out the same, just using different ability scores.

Once I know this I'll get started on building.


Posting in with a character concept I want to run by the GM before I get to building.

I'm thinking of building a Swashbuckler (Rondolero Swashbuckler)/Paladin (Chosen One). She's from a minor noble house that is tangentially connected to the Lotheed family, making her Martella's cousin. She'll start as a Swashbuckler at Level 1 before later gaining holy powers through the visitation of her divine emissary. She also has a personal stake in the debate of women being able to inherit titles as she's the first child of her family, and the vote would enable her to become the heir to her family's holdings.

Mostly, I want to make sure that the relation to Martella is okay. I was considering being her sister but the Noble Scion ability for her house... isn't stellar.

Mechanically, she's a dextrous falcata duelist. Since it technically works with the archetype I may go for two-weapon fighting with the buckler for shield bash, but I'm not sure.


Le Quatrième Voile wrote:

@JDPhipps Grey Gardeners mechanically seem very cool, but they are one of our big antagonists in this game. Our understanding of the Grey Gardeners as an organization makes us think that don't really have 'former' members, and that anyone fleeing their order would be marked for death. Renard suggested that a double-agent scenario might work, but that character seems even closer to losing his head. I don't know if that was what you had in mind, but to my thinking, these are the only ways it would work. And both make for a level of lethality even higher than the already high level of lethality.

Yeah, one of those was more what I was going for. I was originally thinking he had fled and was marked for death, but I actually really like the double agent idea. A guy who joins the Grey Gardeners as a double agent to try to use his position to help people who are bettering Galt? Sign me up, man. I have no issue with playing something that I know up front has a strong possibility of death, but at least with a double agent I can do my best to keep that cover up as long as possible.


I'm interested. Given that we're in Galt (and Isarn, no less) would a former Gray Gardener be a character that might work in this game? I've had a character like that I've wanted to play for a while.


I'm not sure if this is already on the agenda, but I would greatly appreciate some changes in font color. I know their are changes in the size of font and link color, but I think some of the previously colored text (like the names for accounts and aliases, stuff like that) could stand to be a different color. Maybe a blue or a dark purple, like before? I think it might help with the 'new layout gives me a headache' problem.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

From my understanding, the missing sidebars and such are coming back, they're just absent for the time being. That's good to know! Overall, I like the redesign of the site. It looks nice and sleek, and once all the navigation issues are fixed I'm sure it'll be great.

I would prefer a little more color rather than the grayscale for names and such, I think that would help. I preferred the soft blue rather than these harsher colors, to be honest. Some mixture of the two would probably be fine, though. I just feel like I'm getting a bit of a headache on the site right now.

Also, as a note for the developers, the sidebar DOES show up on mobile browsers, at least for me. Chrome on my phone does show the sidebar. Just thought that might be helpful to know.


I'll second the Crimson Templar; it works incredibly well when it comes to dealing with evil outsiders and has fluff to match. That on top of a Demonslayer Ranger makes for a character that gets insane to-hit and damage bonuses against evil outsiders, and has the fluff to match it.


Holiday did slow me down! No internet access for a few days and then Thanksgiving meant I took longer than I wanted, but I'm putting the finishing touches on right now. After that, I just need an alias and I should be ready to go.


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I haven't had any log out issues for a few days on Chrome, until just now. I opened up a tab and it was showing me as a guest again. Just wanted to let you know that while it seemed to be fixed for me on Chrome, the issue has popped up again.


I think this GIF is in order...


The Faceless GM wrote:

As JD should remember since he was there, in the first game I GMed, the party managed to skip actually fighting three bosses in a row since they were mostly lower level spell casters (two clerics and a shadow demon I intentionally gimped to make it fightable by having it possessing a commoner at the time).

So I had the next boss be a troll. And when they tried to set a blanket on fire and throw it on him so he didn't have regen, I ruled that the skill check necessary to do so was far too high for anyone in the party to make. And then they learned that the cleric the troll was acting as the muscle for had cast protection from fire on him anyway, so they spent most of the fight dealing with the fact that he was regenerating. I'm not a nice GM when I'm in a bad mood.

I actually wasn't there for that one, remember? I was building a Paladin if Iomedae but I never ended up getting into that game before it ended. I do know that story though, I remember you bringing it up. The first game I actually played with you as the GM was our ill-fated attempt at using all the WoD splatbooks in one game. That was fun, though.

For the record, I totally deserved to have it blow up in my face the second time. I knew it wouldn't work and I did it anyway. But for that one fleeting moment, when I thought maybe it would work again... I felt so alive.


Doomed Hero wrote:
You can load bandoleers up with alchemical weapons, put them in the sack, and "reload" by pulling a fresh bandoleer out when the one you are wearing runs out.

Maybe... don't do that. Our wonderful GM here might be reminded of the time I annihilated a manticore in Book 2 of Skulls and Shackles by strapping a bag full of alchemist fire to a ballista bolt. If I were you, I might not remind him of that incident. The second time I tried it, it had less than favorable results. It was still worth it, don't get me wrong... but only being conscious because of my fire resistance wasn't the funnest thing in the world.


Aww, oh well. I knew I was taking my chances submitting an evil character. Best of luck to the rest of you.


I ended up deciding on a bloodrager, so I'll probably whip him up tomorrow.


I believe Loup is playing a Fighter? I'm not certain.


I promise I'm still trucking away at a character for this, I'm just having trouble coming up with something. Is there anything you guys think would really fill out the party, that we need? I'm happy to play pretty much anything, especially since nothing is jumping out at me immediately. Even just a class, or something like that, would be awesome. That, or just a role you guys think needs to be filled.

I'll work from there.


Actually, screw the question on Snake Style. I wouldn't have the room and I'm happy enough with my vague plans for the future. However, Ally Shield is still a very real possibility if possible.


Awesome! I'll get his character profile up and ready to go. I've given a lot of thought to the direction of the character, but I think I'll go with one of my personal favorites and build to be a very, very scary man. I do have a question for you, though. Would you possibly be willing to allow me to use Snake Style without using Unarmed Strikes? Thematically, the whole feat chain feels incredibly fitting; he's an incredibly perceptive person who unnerves his opponents into making mistakes for him to capitalize on.

I'm also wondering if you would allow his Soul-Piercing Gaze to use Ally Shield to guard himself with an enemy? By RAW, abilities like Solo Tactics don't allow you to force 'teammates' to take the hit for you, but I believe this is likely because Betrayal feats are already pushing the limits in your party. However, since he's only using it on enemies, I thought maybe you'd be willing to let that slide?

Let me know your thoughts on both of those questions. They don't affect my build much at Level 1, but especially Snake Style could affect the direction I take the character in the very near future.


So, I'm here to sell a Lawful Evil character.

The character in question is a former recruit for the Gray Gardeners of Galt, who had a falling out with his fellows when he realized that they had little concern for the actual guilt or innocence of those they executed. He left the organization, but discovered later on that they were trying to hunt him down in order to keep their secret (the fact that they're worshipers of Norgorber) from being revealed. While he did lay low in Brevoy for a while, he believed the relative lawlessness of the Stolen Lands would both be a good place to hide and that he might be able to make his mark upon it.

The character is inclined to work with the party for several reasons:

  • He needs allies. With the Gray Gardeners potentially still hunting for him, having loyal companions is about the best defense he can realistically hope for. He figures an adventuring party will work nicely for that.

  • He's not psychotic. He's a follower of the Reaper of Reputations, not Father Skinsaw. So, while he certainly would engage in some clandestine activity once the party has built a kingdom (he'd be very fitting for the Spymaster, for once) it would be to strengthen the party's power control over their lands and not to undermine them.

  • He's a team player. While his methods differ, his goals are essentially that of the party in purging the Stolen Land and establishing a settlement there. He sees no reason to betray them because they help each other; they provide a front to keep his cover which protects him from the Gray Gardeners, while he allows them to keep his hands clean by being willing to take care of problems that might make more good-aligned party members think twice. Obviously, this will require some OOC discussion to make sure he doesn't cross any lines, but I'm up for that.

    He'll be a Sanctified Slayer inquisitor going into the Gray Gardener PrC. Let me know if that works for you, otherwise I'll come up with something else. I can answer any questions you have about the idea too, if you want.


  • How problematic would it be if I'm running a Kingmaker game? I like this adventure, and an Elder Mythos version sounds fun.


    So, before I start building this, I just want to make sure... how powerful do you expect us to be, exactly? I only ask because doing the math for this character later on, I realized he'll end up somewhere between 600-700 damage per full attack by the late game, possibly more, and his ability to use Litany of Righteousness from Crimson Templar would let me double that in a round. I just want to be clear that this wouldn't be considered 'too powerful' for you, because most of that damage is independent of his secondary class; it all comes from Demonslayer Ranger and Crimson Templar (mostly).

    If that's fine, I'll start writing up the backstory.


    Just to be clear, if a prestige class of some sort doesn't actually advance abilities from either class, it wouldn't affect anything? I was planning on having the other half of my gestalt go for Crimson Templar. At the moment, I think I maybe actually make cleric the other half of my gestalt, actually. My other thought is the Reliquarian Occultist.


    Interested. I have a Demonslayer Ranger who goes into Crimson Templar that I've been interested in trying out, and gestalt just makes that build even more fun. I use a set of Mythic changes to keep it from getting to crazy, which was originally cribbed from the GM running WotR for a friend of mine. I can send it to you if you want, just for some inspiration on what you might want to end up changing.

    I'd have to figure out my other class, though. Maybe Barbarian? I'm going for a follower of Ragathiel, so Rage would make sense...


    I generally like ABP with the simple caveat of enchantments stacking rather than overlapping with the bonuses. Canceling out weapon enchantments is probably the only thing I don't like about that system by RAW.

    I'm still trying to think of a character for this. I may wait to see what everyone else has and just build to fit the team.


    Thinking on a submission for a familiar, just not sure yet. I'll give it a good night's sleep and try tomorrow.


    Rare enough that a wayfinder is considered to basically be the badge of a member of the Pathfinders on Golarion. That's not to say non-Pathfinders don't have them, but the typically assumption is that if you have one you're a member of the Society. I don't know of any notable NPCs on Golarion who are not Pathfinders (or ex-Pathfinders, the descendants of Pathfinders, etc.) who have one.


    I was considering a Hexcrafter magus... although, I wasn't really toying with Serpentfolk. Perhaps an undead of some sort that has forged an alliance and joined the coven of a necromancer? I don't know how our wonderful GM feels about templates, but Graveknight would be a neat one to try out in a game like this. Or a vampire, perhaps? I was also toying with an Antipaladin/Swashbuckler but I kind of want to try that with a normal paladin more than the antipaladin, to be honest. If he's not cool with templates I could just grab a ghoul or a dhampir I guess.


    If PoW is allowed, I will likely build a Harbinger. They're neat.


    Jereru wrote:
    JDPhipps wrote:
    Jereru wrote:
    That he wants Shielded Gauntlet Style (purely for flavour, yes, because it sucks) or cheaper weapon enhancements than Amulet of Mighty Fists.
    Shield Gauntlet Style certainly does not suck, thank you very much. It's certainly sub-optimal if you're playing a character that could just... use a shield, but other characters can get plenty of use out of it. I didn't really ask for your opinion on my build, but thanks for giving it anyway. That is the reason, although my character wouldn't be starting with it.
    I'm sorry that you took it personally; I was talking about the feat, not about your build (which I haven't had a look at). I've also taken feats that suck sometimes, just because they fitted the concept or because they were tax feats, but that doesn't really make them better feats. I wish all feats were balanced, but sadly they aren't. Once more, my apologies, but notice my opinion wasn't even expressed to you.

    The first feat in the chain is admittedly lack luster, but Shield Gauntlet Attack and Master can be pretty good. The benefits of Shield Gauntlet Style are also dependent on whether or not a GM allows it to be enchanted as a shield; since shields can also be enchanted as weapons, if you can do this is becomes an (admittedly sort of feat intensive) amazing boost to your AC. If not though, the first feat is kinda... less than stellar, but the other two can be pretty good.


    Jereru wrote:
    That he wants Shielded Gauntlet Style (purely for flavour, yes, because it sucks) or cheaper weapon enhancements than Amulet of Mighty Fists.

    Shield Gauntlet Style certainly does not suck, thank you very much. It's certainly sub-optimal if you're playing a character that could just... use a shield, but other characters can get plenty of use out of it. I didn't really ask for your opinion on my build, but thanks for giving it anyway. That is the reason, although my character wouldn't be starting with it.


    Hey there, this is a friend of Loup Blanc. He sent me a text to let you know his computer is currently busted, and he's not sure when (or if) he'll be able to get it fixed. He's looking for other means of posting, but if those don't pan out he'll likely be MIA for a while until he can find a way to get online and post.


    Hey there, this is a friend of Loup Blanc. He sent me a text to let you know his computer is currently busted, and he's not sure when (or if) he'll be able to get it fixed. He's looking for other means of posting, but if those don't pan out he'll likely be MIA for a while until he can find a way to get online and post.


    Hey there, this is a friend of Loup Blanc. He sent me a text to let you know his computer is currently busted, and he's not sure when (or if) he'll be able to get it fixed. He's looking for other means of posting, but if those don't pan out he'll likely be MIA for a while until he can find a way to get online and post.


    Hey there, this is a friend of Loup Blanc. He sent me a text to let you know his computer is currently busted, and he's not sure when (or if) he'll be able to get it fixed. He's looking for other means of posting, but if those don't pan out he'll likely be MIA for a while until he can find a way to get online and post.


    Hey there, this is a friend of Loup Blanc. He sent me a text to let you know his computer is currently busted, and he's not sure when (or if) he'll be able to get it fixed. He's looking for other means of posting, but if those don't pan out he'll likely be MIA for a while until he can find a way to get online and post.


    Hey there, this is a friend of Loup Blanc. He sent me a text to let you know his computer is currently busted, and he's not sure when (or if) he'll be able to get it fixed. He's looking for other means of posting, but if those don't pan out he'll likely be MIA for a while until he can find a way to get online and post.


    Hey there, this is a friend of Loup Blanc. He sent me a text to let you know his computer is currently busted, and he's not sure when (or if) he'll be able to get it fixed. He's looking for other means of posting, but if those don't pan out he'll likely be MIA for a while until he can find a way to get online and post.


    Hey there, this is a friend of Loup Blanc. He sent me a text to let you know his computer is currently busted, and he's not sure when (or if) he'll be able to get it fixed. He's looking for other means of posting, but if those don't pan out he'll likely be MIA for a while until he can find a way to get online and post.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Hey there, this is a friend of Loup Blanc. He sent me a text to let you know his computer is currently busted, and he's not sure when (or if) he'll be able to get it fixed. He's looking for other means of posting, but if those don't pan out he'll likely be MIA for a while until he can find a way to get online and post.


    I can choose Ilnerik, although I was looking at a different open Pathfinder, which is Marcus Farabellus. However, unless you're just asking that so I'm not overlapping with someone else, it sounds like you might have had an idea about it? If so, I'm onboard with that. I did like the story I was working on to explain why my character had Ilnerik's Wayfinder, so I think I'll stick with it. Brawlers can't complain about +2 Dexterity, after all. Yeah, Ilnerik will work just fine for me.

    I wasn't super interested in the monk for this game because the character as I imagine him wouldn't really have much of a focus on Wisdom nor would the other supernatural monk abilities really fit him. I was considering UMonk because of how easy it would be to qualify for Dragon Style, but I have a different combat style in mind anyway.

    Out of curiosity, would you say a gauntlet would gain the brawler's increased unarmed damage? It states they count as an unarmed strike.


    Hey Shadow, I know this is the... fourth time I've switched my character concept, but I was having trouble making the Medium build come together. However, I have an idea for a Brawler/Kineticist. I'll build it either way, but would you allow the Brawler to use Flurry like the UMonk and swap his Close Weapon Mastery for Style Strike? If not that's fine, I'll put the build together regardless, but I was curious. I just need to decide which one he'll start as...


    Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
    Jon, The Evil DM wrote:

    It's worth noting that many sources say that while good deities rarely like to cooperate with the evil ones at all, one of the few they WILL deal with is Asmodeus. They're always suspicious of his motives and likely look over the conditions for his help with a fine-toothed comb, but the simple reason is because Asmodeus can be trusted. Asmodeus is dependable, he will adhere to his word, he'll follow the plan. Asmodeus worked with the other gods to seal Rovagug away, after all. He does what he says he'll do, you just have to make sure what he says is what you want. Canonically, he's only ever (maybe) lied once in the history of the universe.

    You should always go with the devil you know, after all.

    You seem to forget that just because he has a plan doesn't mean that the contractees are on board with said plan. Twisting and turning words into something that the contractee thought meant one thing, when the contractor meant something completely different, is precisely why those deities aren't all giddy-giddy with Asmodeus.

    Sure, he may have played a part in sealing Rovagug away, but I imagine that came with strings attached that the other deities relented in accepting, but only did so because the end of everything in existence was at stake. In other words, Asmodeus had them by the jewels, and you can bet dollars to doughnuts that he extorted that as much as he could from that little ordeal. (I also could argue that he could've sealed him away by himself, but he would've just let the other deities die first and become a divine dictator if he could do that, meaning that was highly unlikely.)

    True, but my point was more that they'll cooperate with him at all. You have to be careful, but it isn't as if Asmodeus will straight up break a deal he makes with you. I don't think the other clerics trust him necessarily, but they're willing to work with him more so than a cleric of Lamashtu. The Asmodean is predictable, he'll do what he says (just perhaps not in the way you thought he meant). If you can be relatively sure that you and the Asmodean are on the same side on something, you can trust him to actually stick to his word.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    It's worth noting that many sources say that while good deities rarely like to cooperate with the evil ones at all, one of the few they WILL deal with is Asmodeus. They're always suspicious of his motives and likely look over the conditions for his help with a fine-toothed comb, but the simple reason is because Asmodeus can be trusted. Asmodeus is dependable, he will adhere to his word, he'll follow the plan. Asmodeus worked with the other gods to seal Rovagug away, after all. He does what he says he'll do, you just have to make sure what he says is what you want. Canonically, he's only ever (maybe) lied once in the history of the universe.

    You should always go with the devil you know, after all.


    So, I have an idea I want to run by you. I'm interested in a Relic Channeler Medium, who hails from Taldor/Cheliax, or one of their colonies. Basically, anywhere that descended from the ancient Azlanti after Earthfall. He carries ancient artifacts of Azlant that he knows basically nothing at all about, but they carry immense value in his family and he has been fascinated with Azlant since he was a child. However, since spirits are actual dead people that could actually know something about Azlant, I wanted to make sure this was cool with you before I started building.


    Storyteller Shadow wrote:
    JDPhipps wrote:
    Doomed Hero wrote:
    Storyteller Shadow wrote:
    Diomedes Wayfair wrote:
    Just so you know, Shadow, my wife grumbled at me yesterday, "Are you STILL working on that Pathfinder character?! You're putting way too much work in." HA!
    Heh, my wife wants to know who the hell runs that many games when I could be out making money. :-)

    My girlfriends ask me about the games I'm in all the time. They love the stories.

    Grumblejack is the unanimous favorite. (He's been dubbed Evil Shrek)

    I got my girlfriend into DnD and she always asks about my games on Paizo. I feel so blessed. I think she just likes to hear the horrible things I have planned for my players.

    I'm still toying with new ideas, but right now a Bloodrager is on the table for me. I might go looking to see what other people are building so I can fill a gap, however.

    My wife is long over the stories, I just don't kill enough PCs for her taste. When I do and they get Resurrected it really pisses her off. If she ran a game people would leave the table weeping after each session...

    She doesn't want me to kill too many PCs. After all, she usually is once when I play at a table, so that's a dangerous precedent to set. I can't say I leave people weeping, but evidently a session was scary enough to have someone be reduced to a fetal position, so there's that.


    Doomed Hero wrote:
    Storyteller Shadow wrote:
    Diomedes Wayfair wrote:
    Just so you know, Shadow, my wife grumbled at me yesterday, "Are you STILL working on that Pathfinder character?! You're putting way too much work in." HA!
    Heh, my wife wants to know who the hell runs that many games when I could be out making money. :-)

    My girlfriends ask me about the games I'm in all the time. They love the stories.

    Grumblejack is the unanimous favorite. (He's been dubbed Evil Shrek)

    I got my girlfriend into DnD and she always asks about my games on Paizo. I feel so blessed. I think she just likes to hear the horrible things I have planned for my players.

    I'm still toying with new ideas, but right now a Bloodrager is on the table for me. I might go looking to see what other people are building so I can fill a gap, however.


    I've heard a couple places that this AP is looking as though it will contain a lot of underwater combat, and while I do love the ridiculous build I've come up with, throwing weapons coated in poison won't work to well underwater. I basically will be incapable of attacking with them at all, which puts a lot of my build into the 'useless' category for those fights. So, I think I may save that build for another day. I'll have to think on stuff for this game instead. Maybe a Hexcrafter Magus with Student of War?

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