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So I am currently working on a setting to take place in my own version of the Darklands/Underdark/What-have-you and I don't want to use any of the existing Darkland races purely because I feel like the same underground races get old after awhile and I like it when people are guessing as to what could show up instead of assuming they will fight Trogs, and Drow, and various short angry greyskinned people.

I actually have quite a bit of work done on the setting but I would like to add two or three more sentient races. All my current intelligent beings are either original things I have made before that I have adapted in or are inspired by various works of fiction from Marvel comics to The Wizard of Oz and several things in between.

What I actually want help with is I want to do is to have 2-3 races being existing PC races that have the typical subterranean treatment. Just like Elves-> Drow, Dwarves->Duergar, Lizardfolk->Troglodytes, Gnomes->Svirfneblin and so on. But i can't decide what races should get that treatment and I am looking for interesting suggestions to spark some creativity. What races would you like to see a Darklands version of? Any PC race or any humanoid/Monstrous humanoid that isn't too crazy that you think would make a really weird or cool addition if Subterranean-ified

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I don't get people who complain about the number of races in Pathfinder. Its not like you are forced to have them in your campaign. If someone wants to play something exotic in a campaign where that race logically doesn't belong then it is up to the GM to put the book down.

The more 0-HD races the better. That way when you start a campaign in an atypical setting(as in anything that is not the same boring stereotypical pseudo-Europe) you can have cool races that accentuate the setting.

Myth Lord wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Myth Lord wrote:
But i'm still not 100% sure what some alignments stand for, in my eyes for example all good-alignment creatures are creatures that are like the little pony's, they can't do harm to other creatures, only those who are evil.
That's a strange viewpoint... I mean, people only just gave you the example of the Wakandagi which might kill you if you fish too much in it's river.

Yes an evil deed, overfishing is never good. :-p

But can Good natured creatures in Pathfinder kill for sport? Or would they never do that unless they are templated?

Good natured creatures hunt evil( or beings they perceive as evil) beings for sport. If they hunted non-evil beings for sport then they wouldn't be good

Last one. Can someone post the stats and give a little info on the Astomoi?

Astomoi and the Reptoids were a surprise for me that I really like

How is the Reptoid art and how are they described? Are they evil?

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Wannabe Demon Lord wrote:

The Hodag's presence in Bestiary 3, and a couple of other things, has led to it becoming one of my default monsters in most of my fictional settings. To the point that I even have an anthropomorphic female one in the main cast of my Monster Girl series. If Hell freezes over and my writing career ever gets off the ground, you can expect a lot more Hodags to enter the realm of fiction.

I wish we had creatures that cool in Florida where I live. All we have is the Skunk Ape, which is admittedly really rather generic, as well as the handful of Seminole creatures that I'm aware of, most of which are unheard of by the general public. One, miraculously, made it into the book though: the Fastachee, which I'm fairly certain is Pathfinder's first Floridian monster.

If only Paizo would take a monster from my home state and throw a Gowrow into the mix. Nothing says fun like a terrestrial, cave dwelling, tusked, whip tailed, crocodile/lizard thingy.

Dragon78 wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

Thank you very much Dragon

So I noticed the Reptoids are shapeshifters... That makes a lot of thematic sense

Can someone put up their PC stats?

Myth Lord wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Movie plot spoiler:
I can confirm for you Gray Goo and Living Mirage are in fact from Campaign Settings, Numeria and Osirion respectively

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Myth Lord wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

If you are including grays shouldn't you include the reptoids too? As far as conspiracies and pop-culture go about non human intelligent beings messing with modern humans the reptoids are right after grays as far as importance

Atavar wrote:

WARNING: Abundant spoilers ahead....

** spoiler omitted **...

So was the reptoid a 0-HD race or no? Someone else said they were but you don't have them listed. Playable Reptoids> Greys :P

I just want to know what the player races are. I will wait to see the rest.

Also yeah awhile back i said I wanted the greys to be a pc race. I doubt they will however

Next is 52- Harpies and 32- Stealth. Hmm intersting.

Btw I really love your Darfellan city. Very well done.

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(Dang you had a curse as your origin too. I need to think outside the box next time.)

Nephila- The Golden Spire

LN Metropolis

Government: Sepivalc 7th Lord of the Spire

20,500: 40% driders, 30% grippli, 25% Vanara, 5% other

Once the Driders who would come to found Nephila dwelled deep among the roots of the great trees of the great Western jungle. Carving burrows with their great hairy bodies, lined with their webs throughout the floor of the jungle the driders dominated ruled the ground. But despite their dominance of the floor, great tribes of Grippli and Vanara roamed the trees above, where the driders' couldn't traverse. The roaming tribes of the trees would often sneak down and steal food and valuables from the driders in daring raids only to retreat back to the trees to the frustration of the driders.

After a truly daring thief stole the golden scepter of the lord of driders himself, The lord cried out to the great spider god to give his people the means to ascend to the tree tops. The god granted his wish changing the driders' large ungainly bodies into sleek elegant forms and gifted them with strong golden webs, However as payment the god cursed the driders to never set foot on the ground again. The driders quickly conquered the roaming tribes and founded their great capital Nephila.

Nephila can be seen for miles upon miles around to any who can see above the canopy. The driders originally built the city downwards from the tallest tree in the jungle, they have since erected a great pillar in the center reaching twice as far s the original tree. The great golden webs support a great number of wooden landings where many driders dwell, while the grippli and Vanara and lower class driders remain in a great under city in the branches below the canopy.

While the Driders quickly conquered much of the jungle , they desired to extend their reach further. Using a combination of ingenuity, strong webbing, and a little magic driders have crafted web constructs allowing them glide upon the currents of the wind allowing them to sweep down unto towns normally outside their reach. The driders' have also constructed large, magicked balloons of webbing to carry their vanara and grippli soldiers to act as a ground force when they invade towns. Often the driders will send in their ground troops to secure an area before sweeping down to grab valuables before ascending back to the sky.

The Grippli and Vanaras conquered by the Driders were inducted into the society near the lower rungs yet the Driders do not mistreat them. They work as valued members of the city willing to work for the prosperity of Nephila alongside all others. Nephila is also home to a small number of slaves brought back from their flying raids who work for the most powerful members of the society.

Despite it's power and wealth, the current lord of the Driders is deeply concerned because an overzealous raiding party has recently killed a great sylph priest and the sylphs now threaten to turn the sky against the driders and scatter their city with a great storm if demands are not met.

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My votes were:

Thought Eater- Its a flying, psionic, platypus-skeleton aberration. I had to pick it.

Deep Merfolk- Awesome aquatic humanoid or generic blue multi armed woman. No contest

Su- You turned a rather stupid looking mythical beast into something horrifying. Its amazing.

Roiling Oil- Ooze beats leshy anytime.

So its so close Halloween and I was thinking lets get in the mood by turning our favorite horror monster into a pc race.

Pick your favorite movie monster and just turn it into something playable with 20 or less race points. It doesn't have to be a monster that is normally humanoid or a size that would normally be playable. be creative. No werewolves, vampires, Frankenstein's monster, or generic undead.

umm I got driders and flying..... hmmm

I can see what direction this will go

I've used a Moray Eel as an animal companion before. Its not the biggest deal in the world especially since a giant mantis shrimp would probably have a land speed and all you need to do is keep em wet.

My dream would be a Deep One hybrid Verminous hunter with a Mantis Shrimp companion

Milo v3 wrote:
The dire mantis shrimp can be both awesome and boat-destroying, and a vermin companion. Since animal companion stats are weaker versions of the normal creature... though I doubt they'll put in any vermin companions.

Yeah I doubt they will ever touch on Vermin companions ever again but I can get my hopes up. There just weren't that many decent options for someone who wanted to run a verminous hunter but didn't want to use scorpion or mantis

I picked the robot simply because I know plenty of people don't want to see a robot.

I will be very sad if the Mantis shrimp can't be used as a vermin companion.

Kerney wrote:

Ah sorry if I seem misleading I'm not talking about settings in general. Especially since I agree with you that most of those settings are great ( I never really liked Star Trek) but I was really trying to get at that in RPGs people have a tendency to fall back on the base races and the typical stereotypes associated with them and the best settings ive played in were using nonbase races and had spent a lot of time developing cultures and people and places. I'm NOT saying you have to have 38 races to have an interesting setting. What I'm saying is that people tend to use the same races in the same ways over and over again and they aren't slightly creative.

I would much rather be in a setting that is a high fantasy Australia-ish setting with MAd Max-esque Ifrit raiders and Nagaji slaver-monks than Mining, drinking dwarves and tree huggy, philosophy Elves in Not-Europe. You do NOT need weird races but when I see homebrewed RPG settings most fall back on base race stereotypes and don't get creative.

Also I hate people who make "unique" characters by saying I'm a *insert race* *insert class* but i see that with base races too. Do i play mostly non base races? Yes. But I always come up with a background that would be interesting if you swapped the race with human. Those who use weird race as a crutch are going to be uncreative regardless in my opinion

You do have a nice taste in fiction my friend.

Well at least you can't call the plant zombies/skeletons evil since necromancy isnt involved :P

I'm trying to think through the guilds and races and trying to think of anything else that would be a good candidate for pc rases. I want to say Gorgons but I no they are way too powerful. The minotaurs are fairly important to the Boros if I remember correctly and trolls are important to Golgari. Actually the golgari have those insect men too. I suppose we already have merfolk for the simic. YOu could always do alternate racial traits for the 3 different types of Elves since technically I think they are considered different in universe.

I know you said you aren't going to do class stuff probably but coming up with 2-3 archetypes for each guild sounds like fun to me. Izzet alchemists and rakdos bards and Boros cavaliers and Simic wizards and the like.

Man I love Ravnica.

Though as a big Golgari fan I gotta say: Why make them evil? They feed the poor, keep the streets clean, dispose of the waste of society, and take in the donwtrodden and outcast. I know their ranks are filled with undead, giant insects, trolls, fungus monsters, plant zombies, gorgons, and basically dark elves but I would not call them evil as far as their actions go.

Also are there any other races you are going to stat up?

Personally I think the more races the better. Anyone who has seen my posts are probably aware of that.

All the people I know who don't like having a ton of race options tend to hold the opinion that rarer races are crutches for people who can't make a character interesting without a weird race. These same people tend to be fine with stereotypical dwarves, elves, and human adventurer tropes for whatever class people pick who have put limited effort into their characters.

If you made your own setting that only uses the core races without adding one or two other playable races (even ones that are more commonly playable like goblins) I think you are completely unoriginal. Elves and Dwarves have been done to death.

The two most interesting worlds I've played in have had mostly non standard races.
One had : Humans, Elves(more like the nuts discworld elves than standard thankfully), Dhampir, Catfolk, Vishkanyas, Hobgoblins, and Gripplis

The other had: Humans, Syrinx, Monkey Goblin, Ghorans(He really liked ISB races I guess), Nagaji, Ifrit, Ratfolk, and nerfed Kasathas and Trox

They had spent a lot of time really developing their world and really encouraged people to use the non humans. Two of the most well made fantasy settings i've experienced. Unfortunately several other people I know tend to do the same old pseudo-europe Elf dwarf human stuff when they try to make a setting.
Why can't people just be creative with their setting and story telling?

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Crystal Frasier wrote:

Ironically, a 0-HD version of lizardfolk was my original pitch for my new race. This was probably one of the most collaborative books we've done in a long time, and we all bounced ideas off each other. There were several ideas that went back and forth before we settled on ganzi, including a termite people (which was a little too close to the new race Adam originally wanted to include) and a 0-HD version of aranea. Still hope we can do those other three in the future.

.... I...... I ....


Seriously all three of those sound amazing

Also just curious were you going to go normal lizardfolk route or something more akin to like a skink, monitor, chameleon, gecko, marine iguana, thorny devil, frilled lizard ect.?

Luthorne wrote:
Lord-of-Boggards wrote:
Samy wrote:

Anuli has aasimars, ganzi and lizardfolk, and so on.

So lizardfolk... are we going to ever get a real PC racial write up for lizardfolk? I know the flumph said they didn't want to put too many new racial things in, and that Anuli already got ganzi in the write up but dang I'm holding out that one day we will get a proper stats for Lizardfolk!

As an aside I really need to get this book. Also so sad the flumph couldn't add a new race for Arcadia. I'm curious as to what he had in mind.

The Advanced Race Guide's PC racial write up for lizardfolk doesn't count?

I honestly don't count that. Its not really a racial writeup just an example of the race builder that says lizards have claws teeth and can swim. Its really disappointing for what I consider something of a staple fantasy race

Samy wrote:

Anuli has aasimars, ganzi and lizardfolk, and so on.

So lizardfolk... are we going to ever get a real PC racial write up for lizardfolk? I know the flumph said they didn't want to put too many new racial things in, and that Anuli already got ganzi in the write up but dang I'm holding out that one day we will get a proper stats for Lizardfolk!

As an aside I really need to get this book. Also so sad the flumph couldn't add a new race for Arcadia. I'm curious as to what he had in mind.

Yeah Kobolds are like playing on Expert mode. They aren't very good

It says new animal companions but I have a sad sad feeling that there will be no new Vermin companions :'(

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And I like scifi monsters,cryptids, new types of old monsters(Giants, dragons, ect.), re-imagining old monsters, and completely new monsters. And Oozes.mmmmmm oozes

But I don't want those things and have everything else excluded. I want people who want their fey to get fey. People who want their outsiders to get outsiders. People who want their Duckbunnies to get Duckbunnies. People who want their obscure myths to get obscure myths(I too would like things like the Cherufe). The bestiary is supposed to be inclusive of a wide range of monster that appeal to a lot of people.

If you didn't constantly criticize other people's wants like aliens and new dragon types people would probably be more receptive to your suggestions of more obscure mythical creatures.

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Gisher wrote:
Myth Lord wrote:
Why? The D&D Brain Moles were terrible. I hope they turn out extremely different.
I'm sure you do.

Brain Moles:

Not directly related to a mythical creature
You can pronounce their name
More than 50 people in the world have heard of them

They don't fit any of the criteria for Myth Lord to like them

ariddrake wrote:
I am really glad that the anunnaki are in Bestiary 5. I hope Pathfinder appropriated what I looked up on them.. some really weird stuff lol. I want to create some Campaign that involves them and the Greys. I really like how pathfinder takes weird urban legends and stuff and creates a cool backstory and stats, I want to see more of that. Example: Jersey Devil, Mothman, anunnaki, Greys, etc...

Sewer Gators anyone?

Adam Daigle wrote:
Undead in Pathfinder are almost universally evil-aligned, so an undead player race is already at a disadvantage in most parties. The closest thing to that kind of flavor is dhampir.

Having a race usually being evil and still being a PC race isn't exactly new for Pathfinder... No offense but that seems like an easy way out for an answer.

Pathfinder has rules for having PC races be differing types but they seem a bit underutilized

The Golux wrote:
Even though I already made homebrew versions, it'd be nice to see Cynocephali, Monopods, Blemmyes, and a reprint of the Panotti from Murder's Mark. Weird humanoidish races from strange exotic lands!

Now that would be neat. Blemmyes/Anthropophage are a lot more disturbing to me after reading a certain novel...

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nighttree wrote:
Uggghhh....November is FAR TO LONG to wait to hear about the playable Darkfolk....I'm going to implode long before then....

I feel the same except for the Deep One Hybrids in my case

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Dragon78 wrote:
There might be more than one sasquatch like 0HD race in the book.

I really hope that isn't the case... Rather have them all be as different as possible ;)

Nice to hear! I put my trust in you for making the Deep Ones different!

Also glad to hear there are a number of aliens beyond the grays

Anyone else a little sad that grays aren't a pc race? I love those little probing scamps. Also I just have such a great love of more pc races.

Sorry Dragon I think there will only be one kind of each.

But a new aquatic race makes me very excited! Especially since it is Deep One related. Hopefully 2 more new races. I like the idea of new darkfolk and orang-pendak but I didn't really want the Ghorans to get in :'(

Use a duckbunny

Awesome thanks for the info. And hey even a little bit of Darklands stuff is still great in my book. Though i guess it would be in your book...

Keep up the good work!

I just want to point out how awesome James Jacobs is for reading through the message boards and responding to so many posts!

I second GinoA's comment. I love me some Darklands.

chbgraphicarts wrote:

Doesn't the Alchemist already have Discoveries, and maybe even an Archetype, that basically lets it play Pokemon with Ochre Jellies and Gelatinous Cubes?

YOu can get bottled ooze and there are rules on creating artificial oozes but (correct me if I'm wrong) one is super temporary and the other is incredibly expensive and either way you have no control over the ooze. There is no archetype as far as i know and if things go wrong you can easily get killed by your own ooze.

An alchemist or druid archetype with an ooze companion would be awesome

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chaoseffect wrote:
Lord-of-Boggards wrote:

Obviously we need the oozelord class. We have serious lack of ooze based classes!

You make be joking, but I agree with the sentiment here at least as far as needed archetypes. The lack of a swarm based archetypes also greatly disturbs me. To this day I get mildly upset when I look over Hive Totem and the short description doesn't say something like, "Turns yo ass into a f+#%ing swarm of pissed off bees."

Honestly... I would have preferred an ooze based class rather than vigilantes.

But yeah there are no ooze or swarm based archetypes or alternate companion rules and it makes me a very sad boggard

Obviously we need the oozelord class. We have serious lack of ooze based classes!

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So I was browsing through the gelatinous ooze section of Dungeon Denizens Revisited and I found the following paragraph in the section about gelatinous cubes in Golarion:

"Perhaps the strangest story of all comes from beneath
Golarion. Recently, reports have surfaced of a huge vault
located in Orv, the deepest level of the Darklands. These
accounts describe a gelatinous cube of truly mountainous
proportions, worshiped as a god by an aberrant race of
half-ooze humanoids who placate it with a never-ending
tribute of food and slaves captured from neighboring
vaults. Normal-sized gelatinous cubes are said to cleave
like icebergs from the sides of this thing and wander
aimlessly through the tunnels of the Darklands. Thus far,
these statements remain unconfirmed on the surface, and
a Pathfinder expedition to investigate these disturbing
claims, led by famed venture-captain Rixmir Thal, has not
been heard from in months."

I find this really interesting. I would say I hope to someday have some more info on this but considering how old DDR is I assume that this paragraph has since been forgotten. Of course I would really want those half-ooze humanoids to be a 0-HD race...

I absolutely love distant worlds and I'm really hoping one day to get more about the cool planets in Golarion's solar system! very excellent work! You hit all sorts of pulp fiction stuff i like!

Did you ever play a Final Fantasy game set in Ivalice? Cause when I heard bunny people I instantly thought of vieras! I actually like Vieras, Bangaas and the other races in Ivalice a lot

OOO point me to where it says about dog races I want to know

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I may not want certain monsters very much (Like Fey) but that doesn't mean i hope they aren't included in this book. I really hope they are included because I know some people really like that sort of thing and I hope that there is something for everyone in Bestiary 5.

So while you may not want more 0-HD races or aliens and robots or Giant plants or whatever it is you aren't into I think people should be glad of everything that gets in because SOMEBODY probably really wants the monsters you don't and with 300 monsters I think there will be enough monster you like to make up for ones you dont

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I like the way you think Dragon! Now that you say it I would love if they added a Coyote race. That way one day when they detail Arcadia we can have mesa top cities of magical trickster coyotes!

Also I had almost put molemen on my post. I keep thinking of the Moloids from Marvel comics. They kinda look like they would be some kind of neutral and intelligent goblinoid if you ported something like them to pathfinder

But now that you mentioned it my personal list for races should also include Aberrations, oozes(They don't do enough with oozes), and undead(I would love a ghoul-like race)

And i would love a playable centaur like race! And I love the sci-fi stuff so more aliens would always be great... and pretty much everything you listed...

I feel like if they did another dragonish race they would make it pretty unique

I'm not a big fey person but I hope they have at least one new fey for you in this bestiary.

They really need to just play with the typing more. some more monstrous humanoids really wouldn't hurt.

Still I think even a handful of new races would make both of us happy!

Dragon78 wrote:
I am sure you guys will get aasimar/tiefling variants for those guys eventually. But I am still waiting for law and chaos based plane touched races.

I always found it weird that there are always Good and Evil touched races but almost never Chaos and Law based races. But hey lots of possibilities for new races with a new bestiary.

Personally hoping for 0-HD : Insect race, some sort of reptilian race(Crocfolk,geckofolk, turtlefolk), a new aquatic races, and my ultimate dream would be a fungus race but thats never going to happen.

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