| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The problem some of you are having with trying to point out the warpriest's negatives is that you are overlooking the fact it is built as a hybrid and like practically all hybrids is not strong in one thing as another class but has things that other class does not have. I am playing two different warpriests currently and they do enough damage while also being able to tank and heal.
Yes, other classes can do that and perhaps even better but the warpriest is solid. Not everything has to be about power gaming.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! (say it again y'all!)
I'm just saying that I don't know a niche for it to fill where something else can't do that.
I feel like there's an odd disconnect between sitting around posting potent concept-builds that other classes can't duplicate due to feats and/or spells and/or abilities, and watching people argue theoretical generalizations about how the Warpriest has no niche. The uber-companion AoO-and-Maneuver machine I posted at the top doesn't really work for a Ranger, Druid, Inquisitor or Fighter for various reasons. It's a build I'd toyed with but couldn't really bring together until the Warpriest came along with a combination of feat mechanics and casting that made it possible, with the ability to grant a wolf a pair of primary claw attacks as a bonus.
I've spent a lot of down-time at work sketching out novel build ideas, many of which quickly derail due to a lack of feats or BAB prerequisites. The Warpriest can pair a lot of these concepts with powerful support spells and abilities, which opens up a huge niche as far as my notebook full of optimized-within-a-concept builds goes.
There seems to be alot of hate for the warpriest, but other than the low skill points (Should be 4+Int I think) it's really quite a good and flavorful class. It may not be a powergamer's dream, but a 6 lvl divine caster with bonus combat feats and excellent weapon and armor proficiencies?? Yes please!
Out of curiosity, I wasn't in on the playtest and don't know about the changes made to the class. I keep hearing that the playtest Warpriest had a "pseudo full BAB" ability which was later removed. How did that ability work and do people feel it was a mistake to remove it?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you for posting these. Seeing what people are doing with stuff I wrote makes me a happy designer. :D
Without the ability to use a swift action (dazed) or speak (paralyzed), how would you use quicken still surmount affliction? Was that supposed to be quicken silent surmount affliction for the paralysis cure at least?
Sorry about misreading you yesterday, chbgraphicarts. Mentioning FCBs (rather than just race) sooner might have sorted it faster though.
It's also not apparent to me looking at the section on Warpriest spellcasting whether they need a holy symbol.
Which kind of makes you wonder how even clerics do some things. Your spell might well not require a somatic component or even speech if you use the right metamagic feats, but you still have to present your holy symbol right? At least for any spell that lists it as a component, which seems to be most of the cleric list.
Have the Holy Symbol carved/built into your weapon/armor/shield. Boom. Done.
That's how I've always dealt with it as a DM.
I think the biggest thing that the warpriest has going for them is their sacred weapon among everything else. This gives you a chance to use low damaging gimmicky weapons. I've once made a halfling slinger warpriest which seems good on paper (never got to test it out)
That said I prefer the other warpriest build I made. You unfortunately need to be human or have access to the human. Get martial versatility for your weapon focus and all your hidden weapons (yes this is a hidden weapon build) under light blades gets your sacred weapon damage and these are normally the low damage ones.
Then you build up to get the betrayer feat. Unfortunately Cult leader (take this for the sneak attack obviously) trades out channel energy or you'd get to use authoritative vestments so get the more expensive magical item. Enjoy your sneak attacking psycho with tons of damage and can make use of fighter feats.
I think an even bigger benefit of the Warpriest is the ability to use Fervor to cast buff/healing spells on yourself as a swift action.
I think an even bigger benefit of the Warpriest is the ability to use Fervor to cast buff/healing spells on yourself as a swift action.I think the biggest thing that the warpriest has going for them is their sacred weapon among everything else. This gives you a chance to use low damaging gimmicky weapons. I've once made a halfling slinger warpriest which seems good on paper (never got to test it out)
That said I prefer the other warpriest build I made. You unfortunately need to be human or have access to the human. Get martial versatility for your weapon focus and all your hidden weapons (yes this is a hidden weapon build) under light blades gets your sacred weapon damage and these are normally the low damage ones.
Then you build up to get the betrayer feat. Unfortunately Cult leader (take this for the sneak attack obviously) trades out channel energy or you'd get to use authoritative vestments so get the more expensive magical item. Enjoy your sneak attacking psycho with tons of damage and can make use of fighter feats.
Yeah, the ability to go Super Saiyan again and again every round is really the cornerstone ability of the Warpriest.
Sacred Weapon's default damage increase is kinda icing on the cake, and the initial draw for a lot of builds, but take away Fervor (or the ability to swift-cast spells on yourself) and the Warpriest loses a LOT of its power.
Blessings are one of those things that can be extremely powerful if you find the right ones and really put them to work. The minor Air blessing removes all range penalties and AoO's from ranged attacks, and the major one grants short-term flight. Combined with Quicken Blessing, an archer (which Warpriest does very well) can take flight and activate flawless long-range shots in a single round. Repose allows stagger with a touch, which means also with a conductive weapon; with Quickened Blessing: Gentle Rest you can make two no-save staggers in one round, putting a target to sleep - even after a full-attack. The major Travel blessing can be a teleport-pounce.
Thank you for posting these. Seeing what people are doing with stuff I wrote makes me a happy designer. :D
I will be playing a Mantis Zealot Warpriest in my next campaign. Already have a Red Mantis Assassin miniature painted and flocked for it.
Thank you for posting these. Seeing what people are doing with stuff I wrote makes me a happy designer. :D
:3
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pharasmin Spirit-Knight
Warpriest of Pharasma
Traits: Fate's Favored, Reactionary
Blessings: Healing and Repose
Human:
STR 15/17+
DEX 14+
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 8
1. Focus Weapon: Scimitar / Toughness / Quickdraw
3. +WP: Point Blank Shot / Rapid Shot
5. Combat Reflexes
6. +WP: Weapon Specialization: Scimitar / WPFCB: Power Attack
7. Weapon Focus: Chakram
9. Snap Shot / WP: Improved Snap Shot
11. Quicken Blessing: Gentle Rest
12. +WPFCB: Improved Critical: Scimitar / +WP: Pin Down
The Spirit Knight fights in spirals, whether with slashing scimitar strikes or thrown chakram. Wearing heavy armor, they can defend with a quickdraw light shield without diminishing their offense. While their primary focus is wielding a scimitar in two hands, they are more than capable of throwing a barrage of buffed missiles when it suits them. By level 9 they gain the ability to threaten with a chakram at 15 feet, and can ready their scimitar with one hand while making chakram AoO's with the other. By level 12 they have the ability to neutralize a 5-foot step or withdrawal by AoO, including 15-foot chakram AoO.
Wielding a Conductive weapon, the Spirit-Knight can channel Gentle Rest stagger through weapon strikes and eventually put a foe to sleep following an attack by a combination of Conductive and Quicken Blessing: Gentle Rest.
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! (say it again y'all!)
Honestly I'm surprised this took until the second page.
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! (say it again y'all!)Honestly I'm surprised this took until the second page.
Good God, y'all...
It would have sounded really mean-spirited coming from me, so I let it go.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm right here, sorry!
While I'm here can I use the restroom?... never mind, I'll just stand over here, don't mind me... are these the best magazines you have? No don't get up, these will do, I guess.
Isn't uh, the whole point of Guided Hand that it has to be used with your deity's favored weapon? So that constrains god choices pretty hard.
Guided Hand isn't necessarily all that impressive for a Warpriest since the features it affects are somewhat secondary. If you really want to profit from a wisdom-based Warpriest, use an offensive Blessing or a Variant Channeling with a save that's really ugly to fail. Channel Ray + Variant Negative Channeling: Rulership is a brutal daze-ray. The minor Charm Blessing is awesome defense, and the major Charm Blessing pulls little swift-action commands. It makes for a pretty unique exercise in casual domination...
Warpriest of Cayden: "Hey there goons! None of you feel like attacking me."
Pack o' Goons: "...OK."
Warpriest of Cayden: "Although, you there - the beefy goon - I'm actually gonna gonna go ahead and stab you a couple times with this rapier. After I'm done, please just sort of stand there and think about what you've learned."
Beefy Goon: "...OK."
For a wisdom-based theme...
Tyrrhenus, Hand of Glory
Warpriest of Sarenrae
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Lineage: Instrument of Agony
Blessings: Glory and Sun
Aasimar (Middle Aged); Deathless Spirit, Immortal Spark
:Middle Aged adjusted, (Lesser Age Resistence from Immortal Spark)
STR 14:13(14)
DEX 12:11(12)
CON 14:13(14)
INT 12:13
WIS 16/18:19+
CHA 7/9:10
1. Focus Weapon: Scimitar / Toughness
3. +WP: Power Attack / Angelic Blood
5. Channel Smite
6. +WP: Weapon Specialization: Scimitar
7. Guided Hand
9. +WP: Improved Critical: Scimitar / Persistent Spell
10. (Retrain Toughness: Angel Wings)
11. Quicken Blessing: Glorious Presence
12. +WP: Critical Focus
13. Quicken Blessing: Blinding Strike
15. +WP: Blinding Critical
Glorious Presence grants a Sanctuary effect with a DC that scales with level, and that only ends against targets you attack. Once you have it as a Quickened Blessing you can easily reapply it after attacking or after it fails, and you can grant it to allies with less effort. Archon's Aura and/or Aura of Doom work well with Quickened Glorious Presence, since you can approach a group of enemies, wreck their saves by AoO effect, attack one, and then put up Sanctuary and laugh as they try to break it with their crippled saves.
Quickened Blinding Strike lets you casually toss around blind while fighting, and is great for crippling a foe who you gave up Sanctuary against.
Persistent Instrument of Agony can be dropped on a target as a free action with an attack, and can take a foe who you gave up Sanctuary against right out of the fight.
It's not like a ranged Warpriest needs to have a longbow deity. They just need to take Longbow as their Focused Weapon. Even if a Warpriest does go Guided Hand, they're hardly ruined by not having archery blessings.
As far as feats go, a Cleric can't get Point-Blank Master at all and has to wait until 9 for Manyshot and 12 for Improved Snap Shot. Warpriest can get Manyshot by 6 and Point-Blank Master by 9, or if they prefer they can ignore Point-Blank Master, grab Improved Snap Shot by 9, and grab Pin Down by 12 (another one the Cleric can't get). Sacred Weapon on a bow is very powerful, since if they don't need enhancement they can stack on things like Fire or Frost or Holy which multiply like crazy with archery. Fervor also means that they can buff much more efficiently. And besides everything else, they also have the feats left over for efficient switch-hitting in heavy armor if they don't want to get stuck having to try to dance around or withdraw.
A ranged warpriest probably wants 17+ dex for manyshot; you're not going to get much benefit out of guided hand in that case. Hence my suggestion of Shelyn for air/charm long range fire a while back.
With the air blessing you don't need point blank master BTW.
In general it's the fervor quickening that is a warpriests defining feature. Other divine classes can snag blessings, others are better at spellcasting or channelling, feats are good but not a definng feature, but there's no direct equivalent to fervor.
I would say from building experience that a generous string of "You have full BAB and Fighter level for prerequisites" bonus feats is easily as much a defining feature, considering just how many builds go from impossible to possible because of them. Or at least, from possible now to possible in another half dozen levels....
I would say from building experience that a generous string of "You have full BAB and Fighter level for prerequisites" bonus feats is easily as much a defining feature, considering just how many builds go from impossible to possible because of them. Or at least, from possible now to possible in another half dozen levels....
This is something I noticed while building several Warpriest builds - while the SF does get access to Style feats more easily than the Warpriest, the Warpriest makes out like a g%!$!!n bandit considering it can take the Weapon Focus tree, Weapon Versatility, Point-Blank Master, and any other Fighter-exclusive feat.
The Warpriest can produce builds that the Cleric, Paladin, and even Inquisitor can't because of that ability alone.
It can get really interesting when you start to pick up the 'too feat-intensive to use' stuff that just seems bizarre on a 3/4 BAB semi-Cleric character.
That's basically the gist of most of the stuff I've been posting, like the wolf-priest with the scythe who can drag targets into a vicious Greater Drag + Paired Opportunist dogpile with his ridiculously buffed wolf and any nearby allies without actually giving up any attacks. Or the scimitar-wielder who can fire off buffed chakrams at targets, then AoO with them at 15ft, and then dance around with 5ft-steps between full scimitar attacks slapping Pin Down AoOs against the 5ft-steps of enemies trying to catch up.
There are an awful lot of things you can do with combat feats when they're there to use, even if you're just using them to free up your other feats for everything from metamagic to racial stuff.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Out of curiosity, I wasn't in on the playtest and don't know about the changes made to the class. I keep hearing that the playtest Warpriest had a "pseudo full BAB" ability which was later removed. How did that ability work and do people feel it was a mistake to remove it?
At one point in the playtest the Warpriest had full BAB while wielding their deital favoured weapon, an ability which some felt defined the class as better for combat than the cleric. There was some disappointment when the ability had been removed in the final version.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Out of curiosity, I wasn't in on the playtest and don't know about the changes made to the class. I keep hearing that the playtest Warpriest had a "pseudo full BAB" ability which was later removed. How did that ability work and do people feel it was a mistake to remove it?At one point in the playtest the Warpriest had full BAB while wielding their deital favoured weapon, an ability which some felt defined the class as better for combat than the cleric. There was some disappointment when the ability had been removed in the final version.
The field was fairly split.
On the Paizo forums, people generally decrying "ABSOLUTELY RUINED!" and called the class nigh-useless, though after several months of play it's shown to STILL be extremely effective and churn out as much or potentially more damage than many full-BAB classes like the Paladin.
On Reddit and Giant in the Playgrounds, however, the decision was generally lauded, since Sacred Weapon was seen as freakishly powerful, and an easily-broken ability (just add Weapon Focus to any weapon, and boom - good to go). Since Warpriests were never NOT going to have a Sacred Weapon, either their Deity's or just their favorite weapon with Weapon Focus, the class was effectively a Full-BAB Class with 6th-level spells, access to Fighter-exclusive Feats, the ability to cast spells on yourself as a SWIFT ACTION, an automatic increase to weapon damage, and the ability to add Enchantment Bonuses or Enchantment Abilities to your Sacred Weapon for several rounds a day.
During the Playtest, Warpriests absolutely TORE UP battlefields and were easily the most powerful class presented, but whether or not that meant they were "broken" or not was a matter of opinion and personal taste. Given that Warpriests have proven to be extremely solid frontline combatants even WITH "only" a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, maybe removing the Full-BAB clause from the Warpriest was the right move.
Removing the full BAB clause from Sacred Fist, however, who DOESN'T gain the fighter-exclusive Feats until 1-2 at level 12, and who can't apply Enchantment Bonuses or Abilities to its Unarmed Strike, may have been unnecessary.
I get this and give it respect. My own personal beef with it though is why not a straight fighter then?
Fighters can't go "Kaio-Ken!" every round. Warpriests can. Warpriests also have significantly more Feats available to them by view of being both a spellcaster and by being able to Channel.
Or perhaps grabbing war sighted battle oracles for their 8-10 feats worth of stuff over the levels AND being able to swap out your feats on the fly for those situational chains.
There IS something to be said for how hilariously powerful the Oracle is IN GENERAL, and a Warsighted Oracle is very fun archetype.
But even taking a Battle Mystery Warsighted Oracle is painfully lacking in the Feats department, since you have give up all but 2 of your Revelations (and one of those remaining 2 is at lv19, so... yeah).
Even if you take Weapon Training at lv3 to gain Weapon Focus, and automatically gain Improved Critical and Greater Weapon Specialization at lv12, that's pretty much it.
Martial Versatility is a very strong and useful ability, yes. But isn't very useful for making specific builds. It's much-more useful for adapting to a fight on-the-fly, but on a 3/4 BAB class carries with it some serious drawbacks.
Martial Versatility nets you 3 Feats per use by level 11, so by lv12, you've got effectively 6 Bonus Feats, yes; but you need to meet the requirements for those Feats, meaning you can't even gain Critical Focus at all, you can't take things like Improved Two-Weapon Fighting until lv9 or later, and you can't ever take Fighter-exclusive feats.
Warpriests gain 7 Bonus Feats by lv12, they count as full BAB for the purposes of those Feats, AND as a Fighter of their equivalent level.
As an Oracle, you do get 9th-level spell progression, yes, which means that the class is playing on God Mode generally, but you can't cast buff spells on yourself at swift-action speed.
On the flipside, the Warpriest's action-economy is significantly better. Being able to swift-cast or use Sacred Weapon once every turn means you can Buff and make a Full Round Action like a Charge or Full Attack.
And then there's the fact that you get scaling damage with the Warpriest that you don't get with the Oracle.
...At one point in the playtest the Warpriest had full BAB while wielding their deital favoured weapon, an ability which some felt defined the class as better for combat than the cleric. There was some disappointment when the ability had been removed in the final version.The field was fairly split.
On the Paizo forums, people generally decrying "ABSOLUTELY RUINED!" and called the class nigh-useless, though after several months of play it's shown to STILL be extremely effective and churn out as much or potentially more damage than many full-BAB classes like the Paladin.
On Reddit and Giant in the Playgrounds, however, the decision was generally lauded, since Sacred Weapon was seen as freakishly powerful, and an easily-broken ability (just add Weapon Focus to any weapon, and boom - good to go). Since Warpriests were never NOT going to have a Sacred Weapon, either their Deity's or just their favorite weapon with Weapon Focus, the class was effectively a Full-BAB Class with 6th-level spells, access to Fighter-exclusive Feats, the ability to cast spells on yourself as a SWIFT ACTION, an automatic increase to weapon damage, and the ability to add Enchantment Bonuses or Enchantment Abilities to your Sacred Weapon for several rounds a day.
During the Playtest, Warpriests absolutely TORE UP battlefields and were easily the most powerful class presented, but whether or not that meant they were "broken" or not was a matter of opinion and personal taste. Given that Warpriests have proven to be extremely solid frontline combatants even WITH "only" a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, maybe removing the Full-BAB clause from the Warpriest was the right move.
Thus my use of the qualifier "some". I didn't have interest in the class, so I don't have strong feelings either way. Although, I would probably allow a player to archetype trading the weapon self buff in exchange for counting as Full BAB with their deity's favoured weapon only. I prefer passive abilities to a glut of active ones. I've never had a player express interest in the class either though.
My first warpriest. The idea for the character was a Dwarf that could had a shield in one hand and was able to use the Dwarven racial weapon Dorn-dergar (chain flail) in one hand at some point. You start using the flail as a 2 handed weapon.
1st: combat reflexes
3rd: power attack, pushing assault
5th: two weapon fighting
6th: dorn dergar master
7th: darting viper
Rest is up to you. You could start taking shield feats later on to make better use of the two weapon fighting. I had a lot of fun in my campaign with this build. I went war and good for blessings, took Angradd as the deity.
Champion of the Faith - Katana, One-Handed
Race: Half-Elf (Ancestral Arms)
Highest Stat: Dexterity
Secondary Stats: Wisdom, Charisma
Tertiary Stat: Constitution
Dump Stats: Strength, Intelligence
Blessings: Good, Luck
Race Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Katana
CL2 Sws1 ???*, Weapon Finesse
CL1 Wrp1 Weapon Focus
CL3 Wrp2 ???
CL4 Wrp3
CL5 Wrp4 ???
CL6 Wrp5 Weapon Specialization
CL7 Wrp6 ???, ???**, ???***
CL8 Wrp7
CL9 Wrp8 ???
CL10 Wrp9 Critical Focus
CL11 Wrp10 Quick Draw
CL12 Wrp11
* Retrain to Slashing Grace at lv2
** Retrain to Improved Critical at lv8
*** Retrain to Piercing Critical at lv11
---
Carry several Katanas with you; When you score a Critical Hit, leave them embedded in the enemy with Piercing Critical and Quick Draw a new one to Keep on going.