Warpriest, what is it good for? Post your build ideas...


Advice

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The problem some of you are having with trying to point out the warpriest's negatives is that you are overlooking the fact it is built as a hybrid and like practically all hybrids is not strong in one thing as another class but has things that other class does not have. I am playing two different warpriests currently and they do enough damage while also being able to tank and heal.

Yes, other classes can do that and perhaps even better but the warpriest is solid. Not everything has to be about power gaming.


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ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! (say it again y'all!)


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
I'm just saying that I don't know a niche for it to fill where something else can't do that.

I feel like there's an odd disconnect between sitting around posting potent concept-builds that other classes can't duplicate due to feats and/or spells and/or abilities, and watching people argue theoretical generalizations about how the Warpriest has no niche. The uber-companion AoO-and-Maneuver machine I posted at the top doesn't really work for a Ranger, Druid, Inquisitor or Fighter for various reasons. It's a build I'd toyed with but couldn't really bring together until the Warpriest came along with a combination of feat mechanics and casting that made it possible, with the ability to grant a wolf a pair of primary claw attacks as a bonus.

I've spent a lot of down-time at work sketching out novel build ideas, many of which quickly derail due to a lack of feats or BAB prerequisites. The Warpriest can pair a lot of these concepts with powerful support spells and abilities, which opens up a huge niche as far as my notebook full of optimized-within-a-concept builds goes.


Saldiven wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Get Improved Crit and Crit Focus as soon as you can. (Sadly, that would be levels 11 & 12 for a single class Warpriest.)

The Warpriest gets to treat his level as being his BAB or Fighter level when selecting bonus combat Feats, so the Warpriest could take Improved Critical with the 9th level Bonus Feat, unless he took something else instead.

I have a TWF Kukri wielding Warpriest right now. Works ok. Sacred Weapon and Fervor casting Divine Favor (with Fates Favored trait) helps to mitigate the TWF penalty and 3/4 BAB, as well as the +2 to-hit bonus from the Nobility blessing. (Worships Raziel to have Destruction and Nobility as his blessings, so bonuses to hit and damage.)

Ooh.

So that would mean level 9 for Improved Crit, but still level 12 for Crit Focus. Still pretty narly. If you were really in a hurry to get a bonus to crit confirmation, you might be a Halfling and take Low Blow, or be a human and take Racial Heritage. I seem to recall there being 1 or 2 Traits that improve your chances for confirming crits like Anatomist maybe?

So now you take Seize the Moment and Paired Opportunist, and you have an Attack of Opportunity Party.


There seems to be alot of hate for the warpriest, but other than the low skill points (Should be 4+Int I think) it's really quite a good and flavorful class. It may not be a powergamer's dream, but a 6 lvl divine caster with bonus combat feats and excellent weapon and armor proficiencies?? Yes please!


Out of curiosity, I wasn't in on the playtest and don't know about the changes made to the class. I keep hearing that the playtest Warpriest had a "pseudo full BAB" ability which was later removed. How did that ability work and do people feel it was a mistake to remove it?


I think the biggest thing that the warpriest has going for them is their sacred weapon among everything else. This gives you a chance to use low damaging gimmicky weapons. I've once made a halfling slinger warpriest which seems good on paper (never got to test it out)

That said I prefer the other warpriest build I made. You unfortunately need to be human or have access to the human. Get martial versatility for your weapon focus and all your hidden weapons (yes this is a hidden weapon build) under light blades gets your sacred weapon damage and these are normally the low damage ones.

Then you build up to get the betrayer feat. Unfortunately Cult leader (take this for the sneak attack obviously) trades out channel energy or you'd get to use authoritative vestments so get the more expensive magical item. Enjoy your sneak attacking psycho with tons of damage and can make use of fighter feats.


avr wrote:

Without the ability to use a swift action (dazed) or speak (paralyzed), how would you use quicken still surmount affliction? Was that supposed to be quicken silent surmount affliction for the paralysis cure at least?

Sorry about misreading you yesterday, chbgraphicarts. Mentioning FCBs (rather than just race) sooner might have sorted it faster though.

It's also not apparent to me looking at the section on Warpriest spellcasting whether they need a holy symbol.

Which kind of makes you wonder how even clerics do some things. Your spell might well not require a somatic component or even speech if you use the right metamagic feats, but you still have to present your holy symbol right? At least for any spell that lists it as a component, which seems to be most of the cleric list.

President, Jon Brazer Enterprises

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Secret Wizard wrote:
Finesse Sacred Fist Warpriest of Irori
Secret Wizard wrote:
TWF Mantis Zealot Warpriest of Achaekek

Thank you for posting these. Seeing what people are doing with stuff I wrote makes me a happy designer. :D


sunbeam wrote:
avr wrote:

Without the ability to use a swift action (dazed) or speak (paralyzed), how would you use quicken still surmount affliction? Was that supposed to be quicken silent surmount affliction for the paralysis cure at least?

Sorry about misreading you yesterday, chbgraphicarts. Mentioning FCBs (rather than just race) sooner might have sorted it faster though.

It's also not apparent to me looking at the section on Warpriest spellcasting whether they need a holy symbol.

Which kind of makes you wonder how even clerics do some things. Your spell might well not require a somatic component or even speech if you use the right metamagic feats, but you still have to present your holy symbol right? At least for any spell that lists it as a component, which seems to be most of the cleric list.

Have the Holy Symbol carved/built into your weapon/armor/shield. Boom. Done.

That's how I've always dealt with it as a DM.


Omnitricks wrote:

I think the biggest thing that the warpriest has going for them is their sacred weapon among everything else. This gives you a chance to use low damaging gimmicky weapons. I've once made a halfling slinger warpriest which seems good on paper (never got to test it out)

That said I prefer the other warpriest build I made. You unfortunately need to be human or have access to the human. Get martial versatility for your weapon focus and all your hidden weapons (yes this is a hidden weapon build) under light blades gets your sacred weapon damage and these are normally the low damage ones.

Then you build up to get the betrayer feat. Unfortunately Cult leader (take this for the sneak attack obviously) trades out channel energy or you'd get to use authoritative vestments so get the more expensive magical item. Enjoy your sneak attacking psycho with tons of damage and can make use of fighter feats.

I think an even bigger benefit of the Warpriest is the ability to use Fervor to cast buff/healing spells on yourself as a swift action.


HeHateMe wrote:
Omnitricks wrote:

I think the biggest thing that the warpriest has going for them is their sacred weapon among everything else. This gives you a chance to use low damaging gimmicky weapons. I've once made a halfling slinger warpriest which seems good on paper (never got to test it out)

That said I prefer the other warpriest build I made. You unfortunately need to be human or have access to the human. Get martial versatility for your weapon focus and all your hidden weapons (yes this is a hidden weapon build) under light blades gets your sacred weapon damage and these are normally the low damage ones.

Then you build up to get the betrayer feat. Unfortunately Cult leader (take this for the sneak attack obviously) trades out channel energy or you'd get to use authoritative vestments so get the more expensive magical item. Enjoy your sneak attacking psycho with tons of damage and can make use of fighter feats.

I think an even bigger benefit of the Warpriest is the ability to use Fervor to cast buff/healing spells on yourself as a swift action.

Yeah, the ability to go Super Saiyan again and again every round is really the cornerstone ability of the Warpriest.

Sacred Weapon's default damage increase is kinda icing on the cake, and the initial draw for a lot of builds, but take away Fervor (or the ability to swift-cast spells on yourself) and the Warpriest loses a LOT of its power.


Blessings are one of those things that can be extremely powerful if you find the right ones and really put them to work. The minor Air blessing removes all range penalties and AoO's from ranged attacks, and the major one grants short-term flight. Combined with Quicken Blessing, an archer (which Warpriest does very well) can take flight and activate flawless long-range shots in a single round. Repose allows stagger with a touch, which means also with a conductive weapon; with Quickened Blessing: Gentle Rest you can make two no-save staggers in one round, putting a target to sleep - even after a full-attack. The major Travel blessing can be a teleport-pounce.


-archer wp with 13 dex, full wisdom and str and guided hand (loses manyshot sadly) (halforc)

-dual dagger wielding wp of pharasma (human dual stat +ioun stone of +2dex to qualify for itwf)

-whip wp

-wp/titan huge bastardsword vital striking, gr weapon of the chosen


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Finesse Sacred Fist Warpriest of Irori
Secret Wizard wrote:
TWF Mantis Zealot Warpriest of Achaekek
Thank you for posting these. Seeing what people are doing with stuff I wrote makes me a happy designer. :D

I will be playing a Mantis Zealot Warpriest in my next campaign. Already have a Red Mantis Assassin miniature painted and flocked for it.


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Finesse Sacred Fist Warpriest of Irori
Secret Wizard wrote:
TWF Mantis Zealot Warpriest of Achaekek
Thank you for posting these. Seeing what people are doing with stuff I wrote makes me a happy designer. :D

:3


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Pharasmin Spirit-Knight
Warpriest of Pharasma
Traits: Fate's Favored, Reactionary
Blessings: Healing and Repose

Human:
STR 15/17+
DEX 14+
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 8

1. Focus Weapon: Scimitar / Toughness / Quickdraw
3. +WP: Point Blank Shot / Rapid Shot
5. Combat Reflexes
6. +WP: Weapon Specialization: Scimitar / WPFCB: Power Attack
7. Weapon Focus: Chakram
9. Snap Shot / WP: Improved Snap Shot
11. Quicken Blessing: Gentle Rest
12. +WPFCB: Improved Critical: Scimitar / +WP: Pin Down

The Spirit Knight fights in spirals, whether with slashing scimitar strikes or thrown chakram. Wearing heavy armor, they can defend with a quickdraw light shield without diminishing their offense. While their primary focus is wielding a scimitar in two hands, they are more than capable of throwing a barrage of buffed missiles when it suits them. By level 9 they gain the ability to threaten with a chakram at 15 feet, and can ready their scimitar with one hand while making chakram AoO's with the other. By level 12 they have the ability to neutralize a 5-foot step or withdrawal by AoO, including 15-foot chakram AoO.

Wielding a Conductive weapon, the Spirit-Knight can channel Gentle Rest stagger through weapon strikes and eventually put a foe to sleep following an attack by a combination of Conductive and Quicken Blessing: Gentle Rest.


Zurias wrote:
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! (say it again y'all!)

Honestly I'm surprised this took until the second page.


Johnny_Devo wrote:
Zurias wrote:
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! (say it again y'all!)
Honestly I'm surprised this took until the second page.

Good God, y'all...


It would have sounded really mean-spirited coming from me, so I let it go.


Thaaaats right, get it all out...


What elephant? I don't see an elephant in the room.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
What elephant? I don't see an elephant in the room.

Stop lying Dumbo.

I know you ate all my acid.


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I'm right here, sorry!

While I'm here can I use the restroom?... never mind, I'll just stand over here, don't mind me... are these the best magazines you have? No don't get up, these will do, I guess.


human archer warpriest (wisdom based)

str 16
dex 13
con 11
int 10
wis 18
chr 7

traits: deadeye bowman, fate's favored

lvl1: wf longbow, point blank shot, precise shot
lvl3: rapid*, feat
lvl4: retrain rapid to specialization, retrain feat to channel smite
lvl5: guided hand
lvl6: clustered shots, rapid shot
lvl7: deadly aim
lvl9: gr wf, open feat
lvl11: quicken blessing (destruction, summoning, travel, air)
lvl12: gr weapon spec, open feat

2 open feats to pick whatever you like (imp initiative, combat stamina if it's in play, play as a half orc for better saves and darkvision, etc)

so plently of good blessing to pick, i favor destruction for the damage and because i don't like summons that much, but whatever floats your boat.

you can pick any god you like, although i prefer someone with a melee favored weapon so that you can do a bit switch hitting since you actually have strength to support a twohander (your belt should be +str one either way)

at lvl12, you look at something like:
+7 stat, +9 bab, +2gwf, +3 gmw, -3 deadly, -2rapid, +1 pbs, +1haste, +4 divine something, +1 bracers
damage: +5 str, +4gspec, +3gmw, +4divine, +6deadly, +1pbs
or close to:

+23/+23/+23/+18 1d10+23 19-20/x3 at round 1 with minimal effort (1lvl 1 spell +1 round from boots of haste)

round 2 and onwards you could start pilling up stuff like:
+3d6 damage for each hit from sacred
+6 damage from destruction
higher level spells
etc
to really start pilling on that damage

gmw gives you enough passive ench bonuses to your weapon for free, and you should keep a quiver with durable "special material" arrows for DR purposes, but if something bad happens, you can always just add a +3 to your +1 adaptive longbow from sacred weapon, and along with good blessing you are probably covered for DR purposes

emphasis on the wisdom instead of dex will cost you the extra damage from manyshot, but will give you higher resources for you to spam (spells, fervor, dcs, etc). you'll be in your fullpalte, archering like a baws.


Isn't uh, the whole point of Guided Hand that it has to be used with your deity's favored weapon? So that constrains god choices pretty hard.


Exguardi wrote:
Isn't uh, the whole point of Guided Hand that it has to be used with your deity's favored weapon? So that constrains god choices pretty hard.

yeah my bad, still, it doesn't really make a differance:

when switch hitting you should have a two hander so the sacred damage weapon damage doesn't mean anything for starters.

the only thing is that it's going to restrict your blessings a bit, but seeing as you can use both short and longbow for the same damage, and there are 15 deities with a bow as a favorite weapon, you should be covered for all blessings

p.s.
we've houseruled a few of the traits, so if you are going with deadeye bowman as a trait and sticking to golarion religions, you need to be a warpriest of erastil to get that trait. since i don't like erastil's blessings, i would personally just change the trait and take something with travel/air so that i can circumvent cover


Exguardi wrote:
Isn't uh, the whole point of Guided Hand that it has to be used with your deity's favored weapon? So that constrains god choices pretty hard.

There are still some interesting choices available in Paizo published material, though I don't know if all of them are PFS legal.

Eiseth is a LE queen of the Erinyes, but you could play a LN Warpriest. This one offers Destruction and War as an option.

Erastil is another option, but those Blessing options aren't super impressive.

There are seven others that offer Longbow as the favored weapon. General Susumu offers Nobility for a +2 to hit Blessing, but is also LE. Hshurha is NE, allowing a true Neutral Warpries, and has Destruction. Isph-Aun-Vuln is CE, but offers Air, which is good for missile weapon wielding Warpriests. Kroina is good aligned, but has unimpressive domains. Shamira is CE, but offers Nobility. Skode is good aligned, but the domains aren't great. The same can be said for Ylimancha.

So, if your DM doesn't mind a LN worshipper of a LE deity, there are options that provide Destruction and the Longbow favored weapon.


Guided Hand isn't necessarily all that impressive for a Warpriest since the features it affects are somewhat secondary. If you really want to profit from a wisdom-based Warpriest, use an offensive Blessing or a Variant Channeling with a save that's really ugly to fail. Channel Ray + Variant Negative Channeling: Rulership is a brutal daze-ray. The minor Charm Blessing is awesome defense, and the major Charm Blessing pulls little swift-action commands. It makes for a pretty unique exercise in casual domination...

Warpriest of Cayden: "Hey there goons! None of you feel like attacking me."
Pack o' Goons: "...OK."
Warpriest of Cayden: "Although, you there - the beefy goon - I'm actually gonna gonna go ahead and stab you a couple times with this rapier. After I'm done, please just sort of stand there and think about what you've learned."
Beefy Goon: "...OK."


For a wisdom-based theme...

Tyrrhenus, Hand of Glory
Warpriest of Sarenrae

Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Lineage: Instrument of Agony
Blessings: Glory and Sun

Aasimar (Middle Aged); Deathless Spirit, Immortal Spark
:Middle Aged adjusted, (Lesser Age Resistence from Immortal Spark)
STR 14:13(14)
DEX 12:11(12)
CON 14:13(14)
INT 12:13
WIS 16/18:19+
CHA 7/9:10

1. Focus Weapon: Scimitar / Toughness
3. +WP: Power Attack / Angelic Blood
5. Channel Smite
6. +WP: Weapon Specialization: Scimitar
7. Guided Hand
9. +WP: Improved Critical: Scimitar / Persistent Spell
10. (Retrain Toughness: Angel Wings)
11. Quicken Blessing: Glorious Presence
12. +WP: Critical Focus
13. Quicken Blessing: Blinding Strike
15. +WP: Blinding Critical

Glorious Presence grants a Sanctuary effect with a DC that scales with level, and that only ends against targets you attack. Once you have it as a Quickened Blessing you can easily reapply it after attacking or after it fails, and you can grant it to allies with less effort. Archon's Aura and/or Aura of Doom work well with Quickened Glorious Presence, since you can approach a group of enemies, wreck their saves by AoO effect, attack one, and then put up Sanctuary and laugh as they try to break it with their crippled saves.

Quickened Blinding Strike lets you casually toss around blind while fighting, and is great for crippling a foe who you gave up Sanctuary against.

Persistent Instrument of Agony can be dropped on a target as a free action with an attack, and can take a foe who you gave up Sanctuary against right out of the fight.


Exguardi wrote:
Isn't uh, the whole point of Guided Hand that it has to be used with your deity's favored weapon? So that constrains god choices pretty hard.

Another reason why I I have trouble with warpriest. If we are going archery as mentioned above on why are not using general susumu? War/tactics and glory/hero rims with favors weapon of longbow is a DREAM! Your makin the whole group better, better spell list, and more. Your only problem is lack of desirable channeling. Someone could say the cleric needs time to get online with his build, no he doesn't. Grant initiative reroll to the barb at level one and he takes care of things and the damage and accuracy difference is negligible. It's not until high single digits that warpriest martial ability overtakes cleric but then spells start trumping martial. I mean at level 8 your granting rerolls on initiative, have An extra feat from domain, granting heroism to group and can summon multiple lantern archons. Side note: and an inquisitor has bane plus skills and still could have either tactics or heroism. Warpriest in range is suffering.

Bottom line: In the ranged department a cleric or inquisitor isn't constrained as they have between the general and Erastil all they ever need and more.


It's not like a ranged Warpriest needs to have a longbow deity. They just need to take Longbow as their Focused Weapon. Even if a Warpriest does go Guided Hand, they're hardly ruined by not having archery blessings.

As far as feats go, a Cleric can't get Point-Blank Master at all and has to wait until 9 for Manyshot and 12 for Improved Snap Shot. Warpriest can get Manyshot by 6 and Point-Blank Master by 9, or if they prefer they can ignore Point-Blank Master, grab Improved Snap Shot by 9, and grab Pin Down by 12 (another one the Cleric can't get). Sacred Weapon on a bow is very powerful, since if they don't need enhancement they can stack on things like Fire or Frost or Holy which multiply like crazy with archery. Fervor also means that they can buff much more efficiently. And besides everything else, they also have the feats left over for efficient switch-hitting in heavy armor if they don't want to get stuck having to try to dance around or withdraw.


A ranged warpriest probably wants 17+ dex for manyshot; you're not going to get much benefit out of guided hand in that case. Hence my suggestion of Shelyn for air/charm long range fire a while back.

With the air blessing you don't need point blank master BTW.

In general it's the fervor quickening that is a warpriests defining feature. Other divine classes can snag blessings, others are better at spellcasting or channelling, feats are good but not a definng feature, but there's no direct equivalent to fervor.


I would say from building experience that a generous string of "You have full BAB and Fighter level for prerequisites" bonus feats is easily as much a defining feature, considering just how many builds go from impossible to possible because of them. Or at least, from possible now to possible in another half dozen levels....


BadBird wrote:
I would say from building experience that a generous string of "You have full BAB and Fighter level for prerequisites" bonus feats is easily as much a defining feature, considering just how many builds go from impossible to possible because of them. Or at least, from possible now to possible in another half dozen levels....

This is something I noticed while building several Warpriest builds - while the SF does get access to Style feats more easily than the Warpriest, the Warpriest makes out like a g~@%&%n bandit considering it can take the Weapon Focus tree, Weapon Versatility, Point-Blank Master, and any other Fighter-exclusive feat.

The Warpriest can produce builds that the Cleric, Paladin, and even Inquisitor can't because of that ability alone.


It can get really interesting when you start to pick up the 'too feat-intensive to use' stuff that just seems bizarre on a 3/4 BAB semi-Cleric character.

That's basically the gist of most of the stuff I've been posting, like the wolf-priest with the scythe who can drag targets into a vicious Greater Drag + Paired Opportunist dogpile with his ridiculously buffed wolf and any nearby allies without actually giving up any attacks. Or the scimitar-wielder who can fire off buffed chakrams at targets, then AoO with them at 15ft, and then dance around with 5ft-steps between full scimitar attacks slapping Pin Down AoOs against the 5ft-steps of enemies trying to catch up.

There are an awful lot of things you can do with combat feats when they're there to use, even if you're just using them to free up your other feats for everything from metamagic to racial stuff.


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HeHateMe wrote:
Out of curiosity, I wasn't in on the playtest and don't know about the changes made to the class. I keep hearing that the playtest Warpriest had a "pseudo full BAB" ability which was later removed. How did that ability work and do people feel it was a mistake to remove it?

At one point in the playtest the Warpriest had full BAB while wielding their deital favoured weapon, an ability which some felt defined the class as better for combat than the cleric. There was some disappointment when the ability had been removed in the final version.


BadBird wrote:

It can get really interesting when you start to pick up the 'too feat-intensive to use' stuff that just seems bizarre on a 3/4 BAB semi-Cleric character.

That's basically the gist of most of the stuff I've been posting, like the wolf-priest with the scythe who can drag targets into a vicious Greater Drag + Paired Opportunist dogpile with his ridiculously buffed wolf and any nearby allies without actually giving up any attacks. Or the scimitar-wielder who can fire off buffed chakrams at targets, then AoO with them at 15ft, and then dance around with 5ft-steps between full scimitar attacks slapping Pin Down AoOs against the 5ft-steps of enemies trying to catch up.

There are an awful lot of things you can do with combat feats when they're there to use, even if you're just using them to free up your other feats for everything from metamagic to racial stuff.

I get this and give it respect. My own personal beef with it though is why not a straight fighter then? Or perhaps grabbing war sighted battle oracles for their 8-10 feats worth of stuff over the levels AND being able to swap out your feats on the fly for those situational chains. The hypothetical battle oracle even has better skills for goodness sake. I believe someone above said it right fervor is the defining feature of warpriest and should be the focus.


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Scythia wrote:
HeHateMe wrote:
Out of curiosity, I wasn't in on the playtest and don't know about the changes made to the class. I keep hearing that the playtest Warpriest had a "pseudo full BAB" ability which was later removed. How did that ability work and do people feel it was a mistake to remove it?
At one point in the playtest the Warpriest had full BAB while wielding their deital favoured weapon, an ability which some felt defined the class as better for combat than the cleric. There was some disappointment when the ability had been removed in the final version.

The field was fairly split.

On the Paizo forums, people generally decrying "ABSOLUTELY RUINED!" and called the class nigh-useless, though after several months of play it's shown to STILL be extremely effective and churn out as much or potentially more damage than many full-BAB classes like the Paladin.

On Reddit and Giant in the Playgrounds, however, the decision was generally lauded, since Sacred Weapon was seen as freakishly powerful, and an easily-broken ability (just add Weapon Focus to any weapon, and boom - good to go). Since Warpriests were never NOT going to have a Sacred Weapon, either their Deity's or just their favorite weapon with Weapon Focus, the class was effectively a Full-BAB Class with 6th-level spells, access to Fighter-exclusive Feats, the ability to cast spells on yourself as a SWIFT ACTION, an automatic increase to weapon damage, and the ability to add Enchantment Bonuses or Enchantment Abilities to your Sacred Weapon for several rounds a day.

During the Playtest, Warpriests absolutely TORE UP battlefields and were easily the most powerful class presented, but whether or not that meant they were "broken" or not was a matter of opinion and personal taste. Given that Warpriests have proven to be extremely solid frontline combatants even WITH "only" a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, maybe removing the Full-BAB clause from the Warpriest was the right move.

Removing the full BAB clause from Sacred Fist, however, who DOESN'T gain the fighter-exclusive Feats until 1-2 at level 12, and who can't apply Enchantment Bonuses or Abilities to its Unarmed Strike, may have been unnecessary.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Warpriest is the only class I ever felt might make a reasonable approximation of a Cassiline brother.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
I get this and give it respect. My own personal beef with it though is why not a straight fighter then?

Fighters can't go "Kaio-Ken!" every round. Warpriests can. Warpriests also have significantly more Feats available to them by view of being both a spellcaster and by being able to Channel.

cont. wrote:
Or perhaps grabbing war sighted battle oracles for their 8-10 feats worth of stuff over the levels AND being able to swap out your feats on the fly for those situational chains.

There IS something to be said for how hilariously powerful the Oracle is IN GENERAL, and a Warsighted Oracle is very fun archetype.

But even taking a Battle Mystery Warsighted Oracle is painfully lacking in the Feats department, since you have give up all but 2 of your Revelations (and one of those remaining 2 is at lv19, so... yeah).

Even if you take Weapon Training at lv3 to gain Weapon Focus, and automatically gain Improved Critical and Greater Weapon Specialization at lv12, that's pretty much it.

Martial Versatility is a very strong and useful ability, yes. But isn't very useful for making specific builds. It's much-more useful for adapting to a fight on-the-fly, but on a 3/4 BAB class carries with it some serious drawbacks.

Martial Versatility nets you 3 Feats per use by level 11, so by lv12, you've got effectively 6 Bonus Feats, yes; but you need to meet the requirements for those Feats, meaning you can't even gain Critical Focus at all, you can't take things like Improved Two-Weapon Fighting until lv9 or later, and you can't ever take Fighter-exclusive feats.

Warpriests gain 7 Bonus Feats by lv12, they count as full BAB for the purposes of those Feats, AND as a Fighter of their equivalent level.

As an Oracle, you do get 9th-level spell progression, yes, which means that the class is playing on God Mode generally, but you can't cast buff spells on yourself at swift-action speed.

On the flipside, the Warpriest's action-economy is significantly better. Being able to swift-cast or use Sacred Weapon once every turn means you can Buff and make a Full Round Action like a Charge or Full Attack.

And then there's the fact that you get scaling damage with the Warpriest that you don't get with the Oracle.


chbgraphicarts wrote:
Scythia wrote:
HeHateMe wrote:
...
At one point in the playtest the Warpriest had full BAB while wielding their deital favoured weapon, an ability which some felt defined the class as better for combat than the cleric. There was some disappointment when the ability had been removed in the final version.

The field was fairly split.

On the Paizo forums, people generally decrying "ABSOLUTELY RUINED!" and called the class nigh-useless, though after several months of play it's shown to STILL be extremely effective and churn out as much or potentially more damage than many full-BAB classes like the Paladin.

On Reddit and Giant in the Playgrounds, however, the decision was generally lauded, since Sacred Weapon was seen as freakishly powerful, and an easily-broken ability (just add Weapon Focus to any weapon, and boom - good to go). Since Warpriests were never NOT going to have a Sacred Weapon, either their Deity's or just their favorite weapon with Weapon Focus, the class was effectively a Full-BAB Class with 6th-level spells, access to Fighter-exclusive Feats, the ability to cast spells on yourself as a SWIFT ACTION, an automatic increase to weapon damage, and the ability to add Enchantment Bonuses or Enchantment Abilities to your Sacred Weapon for several rounds a day.

During the Playtest, Warpriests absolutely TORE UP battlefields and were easily the most powerful class presented, but whether or not that meant they were "broken" or not was a matter of opinion and personal taste. Given that Warpriests have proven to be extremely solid frontline combatants even WITH "only" a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, maybe removing the Full-BAB clause from the Warpriest was the right move.

Thus my use of the qualifier "some". I didn't have interest in the class, so I don't have strong feelings either way. Although, I would probably allow a player to archetype trading the weapon self buff in exchange for counting as Full BAB with their deity's favoured weapon only. I prefer passive abilities to a glut of active ones. I've never had a player express interest in the class either though.


Here is a build I threw together that uses Warpriest and Natural Attacks. A Pathfinder Society Character.

St 16 or 14
In 12
Wis 14
Dex 14 or 16
Con 13
Cr 10

1Ranger1: Weapon Focus Claws, Simple and Martial weapons, Medium, and Light armor, Shields, Freebooter, Tengu, Claws

I like the extra 2 hit points you get from taking a level in Ranger first. This is a PFS Character, and things like low-level Magic Wands will be readily available. A Wand of Lead Blades, a Wand of Magic Fang, later a Wand of Strong Jaw. Plus, this character will be able to use Wands of Cure Light Wounds and serve as the party healer in a pinch.

2R1Warpriest1: Weapon Focus Bite, Minor Blessings: Destruction, Earth, Heavy Armor, Aura, Spells, Sacred Weapon,

2 Claws and the Bite do 1d6 each, and when this character runs into creatures with DR, he might pump himself up with spells like Weapon Against Evil and Magic Fang

3R1W1Witch1: White Haired Witch, Weapon Focus Hair

Add another attack/round that also does 1d6. The White Hair has a sort of Grab Ability, so it will be worthwhile to get Armor Spikes. Every successful Grapple Attack will then do an extra 1d6 + bonuses.

4R1W1Wi1Monk1: Master of Many Styles, Snake Style, Monk Stuff, Ability Score+1

5R1W1Wi1M2: Snake Fang, Evasion, Combat Reflexes

So, this adds an extra 4 or 5, maybe even 6 attacks/round, and that makes it just too sweet. When this character's Warpriest levels brings the Sacred Damage up past 1d6, she will just take Weapon Focus Unarmed and Do Sacred Weapon Damage with the Unarmed Strikes, too. Since this character now has Evasion, she should stick to Light Armor. I like Mithril, Spiked, Agile, Breastplates.

6R1W2Wi1M2: Fervor 1d6
7R1W3Wi1M2: Improved Grapple, Weapon Focus Gore

I'm only guessing, but by like level 7, this character should be able to afford a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and add Gore to her repertoire of Natural Attacks.

8R1W4Wi1M2: Sacred Weapon +1, Channel Energy, Destruction +2, Level 2 Spells

Remember that the Destruction bonus applies to the Gore, the Hair, the Bite, both Claws, the Unarmed Strikes, and the Armor Spike Damage.

9R1W5Wi1M2: Fervor 2d6, Sacred Weapon 1d8, Weapon Focus Unarmed
10R1W6Wi1M2: Hamatula Strike

So, Hamatua Strike lets you make a Grapple check with every hit with a piercing weapon, including Gore, Bite, and Claws. If you have Snake Style, like this Warpriest does, this includes Unarmed Strikes. It doesn't include the Hair, but White Hair grants Grapple checks anyway, sort of like Grab. So every one of those attacks gets bonus Armor Spike Damage.

The base damage for all the Natural Attacks is 1d8, or 3d6 if she pumps herself with a Wand of Strong Jaw.

11RF1W6Wi1M2Alchemist1: Bombs, Extra Bombs, Extracts, Mutagens, Alchemy, Weapon Focus, Armor Spikes

So, now the Armor Spikes do 1d8 damage, 2d6 with Lead Blades. I'm not sure which mutagen to take The Strength bonus goes to every one of those attacks, and we are talking about at least 9 attacks already. And it adds +2 to all the attack rolls, including the Grapple Mods for all those Armor Spike Attacks from Hamatula Strike. But since at least 4 of those attacks are Attacks of Opportunity, that triggers when the Warpriest is missed in Combat, the Dex Mutagen's +2 to AC doesn't go amiss, and adds 2 more Attacks of Opportunity/round potential via Combat Reflexes.

The Shield Extract is very nice for someone who wants a high AC but needs both arms and can't use a shield.

In general, if this character is wearing robust Armor and has a decent Dex, she might as well take mutagens and extracts while in melee combat. If the attacks of opportunity she provokes miss, then she gets attacks of opportunity in return! She might somewhere take a 3rd level in Monk and take Drunken Master, so she will no longer provoke attacks of oportunity for Drinking. Or she might take the Potion Glutton Feat and drink potions as Swift Actions. She might acquire a Wand of Shield.

12R1W6Wi1M2A2: King Crab Tumor Familiar

A Crab Familiar adds +2 to Grapple Checks. And I have an idea for the Tumor's Fast Healing 5. Use Share Spells or have the Familiar Drink a Potion of Shield Other. Now it takes half your damage, and it's lower hp is offset by its Fast Healing 5.


My first warpriest. The idea for the character was a Dwarf that could had a shield in one hand and was able to use the Dwarven racial weapon Dorn-dergar (chain flail) in one hand at some point. You start using the flail as a 2 handed weapon.

1st: combat reflexes
3rd: power attack, pushing assault
5th: two weapon fighting
6th: dorn dergar master
7th: darting viper

Rest is up to you. You could start taking shield feats later on to make better use of the two weapon fighting. I had a lot of fun in my campaign with this build. I went war and good for blessings, took Angradd as the deity.


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I was quite surprised to see that neither this nor the warpriest guide has any mention of a warpriest cleave build, so I thought I'd put one here. I know it's generally regarded as a suboptimal feat, but with the right setup, it can be deadly.

Why Warpriest, You Ask?

1. Warpriests can gain the enormous number of feats required to pull it off with maximum effectiveness.

2. Warpriests, (unlike Cavaliers, Investigators, Paladins, Rangers, Rogues, and Slayers) don't have a large incentive to focus their attacks on a single opponent.

3. Warpriests (non-Sacred Fists), unlike the vast majority of Pathfinder classes, don't have an enormous incentive to full-attack. They're 3/4 BAB and use their buffs to compensate, but their iteratives are still delayed. They also don't have abilities like pounce, flurry, or spell combat, nor do they have easy access to natural weapons, Str-based TWF, or Dex-based TWF. This was mentioned earlier in the context of Vital Strike, but Cleave works better.

Anyway,

Warpriest Cleave Build:

Half-Orc (Sacred Tattoo, Skilled)
Traits: Accelerated Drinker, Fates Favored
Ability Scores (20 pt buy):
Str 16+2, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 7

1: Toughness (retrained after 4th level to Racial Heritage (dwarf)), Weapon Focus (your favorite reach weapon)
2:
3: Cleave, Power Attack
4:
5: Goblin Cleaver
6: Great Cleave, Lunge
7: Orc Hewer
8:
9: Cleaving Finish, Improved Cleaving Finish
10:
11: Furious Focus
12: Cleave Through, Giant Killer


I left alignment, deity, and blessings entirely open, so those can be personalized to each character.
I went half-orc for the sacred tattoo, but human is a great alternative if you want to speed up your feat progression and grab another feat at level 9, such as Quicken Blessing or Greater Weapon Focus.
Int and Cha are flexible - you can go with 7/12, 8/10, 10/8, or 12/7. Or you can go 7/8 or 8/7 and bump up dex, or 7/7 and bump up Con or Wis. I chose the higher Int because I like skills (same reason I grabbed the Skilled trait).

So, what do people think?


Avoron,

I have a few.

Half Orcs can take Surprise Followthrough feats, letting you take 5' Steps while Cleaving. That's worth looking into.

It seems to me that Second Chance Feats might be worth looking into, in case you miss.

The Sacred Weapon Ability replaces normal Weapon Damage, so its benefit really takes off when you use a small weapon that normally does low damage but for your blessing. For that reason, I'd expect to see a lot of 2-weapon fighting with Warpriest. I myself created a character that can more than 15 attacks/round.

That being said, Cleaving is a neat tactical trick, and you're right that a Warpriest guide isn't really complete without a Cleaving Warpriest.

So how about incorporating Reach weapons into your Cleave? A few levels in Fighter with the Phalanx Soldier Archetype, and you use a Pole Arm (with Reach) in 1 hand and a Shield in the other. You can Shield Bash creatures adjacent to you skewer creatures 10' away from you with your Lucerne Hammer. You could use a Scorpion Whip or a Dwarven Dorn Dergar, maybe with Armor Spikes. With Lunge, too, your reach could be very far, indeed.

With Cleave you already are taking Power Attack. Maybe also work in a Bull Rushing or Sundering build. Shield Slam bridges Shield Bashing and Sundering. Maybe get Spiked Destroyer for 1 more attack Get Greater Bull Rush and Paired Opportunist, and you also have an Attack of Opportunity build.


Champion of the Faith - Katana, One-Handed

Race: Half-Elf (Ancestral Arms)
Highest Stat: Dexterity
Secondary Stats: Wisdom, Charisma
Tertiary Stat: Constitution
Dump Stats: Strength, Intelligence
Blessings: Good, Luck

Race Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Katana
CL2 Sws1 ???*, Weapon Finesse
CL1 Wrp1 Weapon Focus
CL3 Wrp2 ???
CL4 Wrp3
CL5 Wrp4 ???
CL6 Wrp5 Weapon Specialization
CL7 Wrp6 ???, ???**, ???***
CL8 Wrp7
CL9 Wrp8 ???
CL10 Wrp9 Critical Focus
CL11 Wrp10 Quick Draw
CL12 Wrp11

* Retrain to Slashing Grace at lv2
** Retrain to Improved Critical at lv8
*** Retrain to Piercing Critical at lv11

---

Carry several Katanas with you; When you score a Critical Hit, leave them embedded in the enemy with Piercing Critical and Quick Draw a new one to Keep on going.


Thanks for the suggestions, Scott.

Are you sure you're thinking of Surprise Follow-Through? That sounds to me like Cleave Through, a dwarf feat that I put in the build for level 12. Surprise Follow-Through and Improved Surprise Follow-Through deny your opponents their Dex bonus to AC. I considered putting those in the build, but their isn't really space. Still a nice option for after level 12, or a bit earlier if you go human.

I didn't make it very clear, but the build already uses a reach weapon wielded in two hands, hence the Weapon Focus (your favorite reach weapon). It also already has Lunge. And it can use Accelerated Drinker to drink potions of Enlarge Person at the start of battles, or better still, potions of Contingent Action, which work spectacularly for cleavers.

Three levels of Phalanx Fighter would be a big hit to spellcasting, enough so that it might be better to just go phalanx fighter with a 3 level dip in warpriest for the 2 bonus feats, nice Will save bonus, and swift action Divine Favor (especially when you consider that the Phalanx Fighter would have to sheathe and redraw their weapon whenever they want to cast a non-fervored spell). Using a shield as well as a reach weapon gives a nice AC boost, but restricts you to 1x Str and 1x Power Attack to damage. And there's no real reason to shield bash, when you can use armor spikes just as well without spending a feat.

Shield Slamming is always a fun tactic, and I like the idea of a shield bash warpriest, but even apart from the previously mentioned Phalanx Fighter issues, I'm not sure it combines very well with Cleave. The simple quantity of feats you've mentioned means it would basically have to be an entirely different build, and I'm not sure there's room for enough cleaving feats to make the tactic worthwhile. You also need Dex 15 for Shield Slam, which is a good deal higher than this build has currently.


Avoron wrote:
Are you sure you're thinking of Surprise Follow-Through?

I was, but I recalled incorrectly about what Surprise Follow-Through did. Sorry about that.

Avoron wrote:
I didn't make it very clear, but the build already uses a reach weapon

Okay, we're on the same page then.

Avoron wrote:
It also already has Lunge. And it can use Accelerated Drinker to drink potions of Enlarge Person at the start of battles, or better still, potions of Contingent Action, which work spectacularly for cleavers.

And all of those things stack with your reach weapon. Excellent!

Avoron wrote:
Shield Slamming is always a fun tactic, and I like the idea of a shield bash warpriest, but even apart from the previously mentioned Phalanx Fighter issues, I'm not sure it combines very well with Cleave. The simple quantity of feats you've mentioned means it would basically have to be an entirely different build, and I'm not sure there's room for enough cleaving feats to make the tactic worthwhile.

You would be combining Shield Bashing with your Reach Attacks even with just the Improved Shield Bash Feat. The Other Stuff surrounding a Shield Slam build would get filled in later. Combining Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush, and Paired Opportunist in your your build does require a VERY heavy expenditure in Feats, and when I first thought of it, it was for a Fighter that I would then take a few levels in Warpriest or Inquisitor for later. I'd characterize it as worthwhile, but it does require carrying the character in a very unusual direction.

Avoron wrote:
You also need Dex 15 for Shield Slam, which is a good deal higher than this build has currently.

Now that is a sticky wicket. I usually knock that wicket off by getting Shield Slam via 2 levels in Ranger and taking Shield Slam as a Combat Style Feat, but a lot of players are uncomfortable with dipping a few levels here and a few levels there, which is something I do extensively. If you would look at my Warpriest build above, you'll see that it's almost nothing but dips. And it is fair to say that I like to give my Martial Characters high Dexterity, and since I like Attack of Opportunity Builds, that is just lovely, but you don't necessarily want that for a Cleave Build.


A bit of thread necro here but I got an idea for divine commander for consideration.

Any paladin or inquisitor can cast litany of righteousness if of sufficient level
Any samsaran divine caster can appropriate litany of righteousness with mystic past life (MPL)
Any paladin or cleric gets a good aura
Any divine hunter can get an animal companion with a celestial template
Any Aasimar can get an animal companion with a celestial template
So any Aasimar cleric can get a good aura and a an AC with a celestial template, but would be sadly out of Litany of righteousness.

Only a paladin gets aura and a mount with the celestial template and cast and cast litany of righteousness but all the criteria only on level 11

A Samsaran (MPL) divine commander warpriest could cast litany of righteousness at Level 7 with BOTH himself and his AC having an aura of good (at level 6).

I wondered if there is a good build around that trick, since divine commanders where somewhat absent from this thread

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