Venture-Agent, Ohio—Columbus
|
what is the bare minimum that needs to be on a paper to count as a "character sheet"?
I would say anything that you have to make a choice for should be on there. Nothing that can be calculated based on those choices would be required to be written down.
So let's see...race, class(s) and levels in each, deity, gender, alignment, faction, any alternate racial traits, ability scores, class option choices, skill ranks, feats, traits, all equipment, hit points (since that depends on your FCB choices).
I'm assuming you're asking because you want to fulfill the PFS requirement of a physical character sheet but you use an electronic tool of some kind to play from (Herolab, spreadsheet, etc).
As long as you can justify the things that Herolab (or whatever you're using) says using what's on the physical sheet, then you should be set.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
I'd say that a reasonable minimum is a sheet that a GM can grab and read and understand without any special preparation.
I agree with the requirement for a physical sheet; I don't own a tablet and if someone shoves one on herolab my way, I'll have to spend quite some time finding out how to read it. That's not acceptable.
The ordinary sheet provided by Paizo is fine although some much better models exist.
I prefer skills to be fully calculated, so that if I (for example; cam up yesterday) have to judge secret sense motive checks for people, I can look at their sheets and see what their skill modifier is, without giving away what's going on.
Clarity about choices made (what archetype, feat selection etc.), and convenience of the GM, should be the measures of a good sheet.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
| 33 people marked this as a favorite. |
Please don't press for an answer to this question. Right now, it's open to interpretation. If you can't work it out at the table, and insist on getting campaign leadership to take a stance, you probably won't like the answer.
|
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Please don't press for an answer to this question. Right now, it's open to interpretation. If you can't work it out at the table, and insist on getting campaign leadership to take a stance, you probably won't like the answer.
Seriously this. It's never worked out before if you press campaign leadership for this answer.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
a couple things I have encountered... not sure if they are "RAW", but both sort of worked... When I saw the title of this thread I had flash backs to both these games...
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Hmm... I wonder if I should start showing up with my character sheet in Hebrew. It would be good practice for me.
|
|
Lots of people like to play using only electronic sheets, often off herolab or something similar. There was a ruling a while back saying you had to bring a paper copy.The equivalent of a full statblock, I would've thought.
I'm interested to know what provoked the question in the first place.
If someone is using Hero Lab, printing out the PDF from the POR file should be trivial.
-Skeld
Edit: If that were the case, why would the player care what was on the HL-generated character sheet? It's a handful of mouseclicks and done.
|
|
ugh, looks like I need everything. Man this really stinks. I don't want to have to fill in a sheet like every other session I play since I'd need to redo it if I buy anything that changes anything on my sheet. such a hassle but I guess it's unavoidable :( man, this has me seriously considering quitting just to not have to fill out a paper sheet all the time for every character.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
ugh, looks like I need everything. Man this really stinks. I don't want to have to fill in a sheet like every other session I play since I'd need to redo it if I buy anything that changes anything on my sheet. such a hassle but I guess it's unavoidable :( man, this has me seriously considering quitting just to not have to fill out a paper sheet all the time for every character.
I use Hero Lab and generally only reprint when I level or get a significant item such as an attribute booster. Other than that, either the ITS shows it or I can mark it with pen. Charges on wands, ammo, etc is tracked via the ITS.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
The DM needs to be able to check the sheet. Thats the entire point of requiring a paper one in the first place: so the DM can look at it. Having it in hebrew (how do you have AC if there are no vowels?) prevents that.
Nevermind AC. How do you take an AoO?
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
This would be cool if I were the table Judge. Whatever works for you - and heck, with some of the writing I've tried to read I would think it WAS in Hebrew. (even some of my own writing... late on a Sunday, after a Con...)Hmm... I wonder if I should start showing up with my character sheet in Hebrew. It would be good practice for me.a couple things I have encountered... not sure if they are "RAW", but both sort of worked... When I saw the title of this thread I had flash backs to both these games...
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
The bigger problem would be if *I* could read it :) My Hebrew isn't very good.
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The DM needs to be able to check the sheet. Thats the entire point of requiring a paper one in the first place: so the DM can look at it. Having it in hebrew (how do you have AC if there are no vowels?) prevents that.Nevermind AC. How do you take an AoO?
אוו
|
|
Pen or pencil Cross off/erase. Write in. Done.
You only need to replace your sheet every 4 levels or so when its gotten worn through and smudged.
4 levels? I'm still on my original character sheet for my level 9 character, but then I am pretty delicate with my character sheet.
As long as it's legible and not coated in a layer of sweet and sour sauce, it's fine with me.
|
Pen or pencil Cross off/erase. Write in. Done.
You only need to replace your sheet every 4 levels or so when its gotten worn through and smudged.
4 levels? I'm still on my original character sheet for my level 9 character, but then I am pretty delicate with my character sheet.
As long as it's legible and not coated in a layer of sweet and sour sauce, it's fine with me.
I guess I'm an easier GM than you. Either that, or I like sweet and sour sauce more. I only want legible, though I may insist they just put it down in front of me so I don't have to touch it if it's sticky.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
While running intro games at a local ComicCon...I was setting up my first table, expecting a group of total newbies, and someone shows up excited to see there is a Pathfinder table at the ComicCon. I was much relieved that I did not have a total table of newbies, until I asked him what he's played before and he says he doesn't know the names, but he has the sheets ("receipts" he called them)... and he pulls two chronicles out of his wallet with the sheet of notebook paper that is his character sheet. Nothing besides the judges info is filled out on the CRs, and when presented with a fresh new PC sheet to fill in, he says he likes his "personal" sheet (which has only a dozen or so lines of smudged pencil that I couldn't read on it) - afterword I did give him a folder to put his PC in, but I think he just put the pages back in his wallet (Folded up all together).
that game sort of went down hill from there...I did actually get him to start to put his character on a standard PC sheet by the end of the first game, but he had lost it before the second (though he still had every other paper I had given him, including the ITS - which was un-used...)
What kind of character has no piece of equipment over 25 gold? (I guess maybe a monk, or a mage with a bonded weapon...)
I've run a table at a con where the player pulled out four small pieces of paper as his character sheet. He was playing a summoner, and he had a hard time finding information about his PC. These days, I would have sent him to HQ to get a pre-gen.
|
|
I agree that we probably don't want this question "formally" answered, but I think it is a very interesting question (I have a personal interest).
As a GM, I would answer with this guideline - you need to have enough information on your sheet so that any standard and reasonable game question should be 'answerable' with little to no hesitation. Examples of standard and reasonable game questions would be "Please make a stealth roll", or "Please make a perception check", or "Please give me a fort save".
If your sheet is written very minimally but does not negatively impact the flow of game play, then I don't think I'd have a problem with it. This feels reasonable.
|
My pet peeve is people who do not count their boni together beforehand but instead start this tedious 1+2+3 when I ask for a ranged attack roll. Wish it was just beginners who do that.
And I wish folk would start with the roll. First see whether it is a natural 20 or 1 and then go from there. At least with attacks and saves because of crits/fumbles .
|
|
Roll. Then math. I don't know why people want to add up a bunch of numbers for a total, then get another number... and apparently add that same series of numbers to the d20 again. If you have a 16 on the die and their AC is 20 and I know you're a melee fighter I'm just calling it a hit.
But does that take into account people who haven't optimized for melee/don't have masterwork/max strength/power attack/etc?
I'll admit I've fallen into the category of 'adding after the roll' on occasion when I'm exhausted.
Generally speaking, though, I have an idea of what my numbers are at, and then what they are at with a -4 on my -1... since he usually fights defensively acting as tank or is playing up so hard that it's necessary.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Plus, of course, all of your Chronicles and your Inventory Tracking Sheet. Those are all officially part of your character sheet and must be present in paper format to play a FtF game.
small caveat: The DM has the right to ask for a paper version. They do not have to.
|
|
True. Many don't, but that's a risk I choose not to take. Besides, my memory is so bad I can't remember anything without the notes anyway...
Plus, sometimes I'll be sitting at a table beating my head against the wall trying to figure out something and glancing through the gear sometimes gives me insight on how to handle a given encounter/situation.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Note: In my (limited) experience, if you use HeroLab or several of the other alternatives, they frequently offer an option to print out just a statblock, which looks very similar to the statblocks for monsters in the various Bestiaries.
Any experienced GM probably will have little problem reading that.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have to say, the standard sheet that comes bundled with the GtOP does a rather poor job after about level 5. By then you're often adding five or more different boni to your attack roll, and they change every other round as buffs and debuffs come and go.
|
I would say that for me, the minimum would have the stuff that a pregen statblock would have... preferably legible, and with all bonuses pre-calculated (at least for the standard attacks... I can't stand it when a player re-adds their BaB, Strength Bonus, Weapon focus, etc., on EVERY attack. I have been known to pull out a note card, and note their calculations for them mid-game).
But, as has been said... things that depend on player choices should be noted, so that there is not dispute over what the character can do.
OP - with hero-lab, you could just print the the exportable stat block rather than the character sheet... tends to be a lot more consise.