what is the bare minimum that needs to be on a paper to count as a "character sheet"


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1/5

I don't have Hero-lab, nor do I intend on getting it. But Thanks to everyone for their answers. It unfortunately solidified that I need "everything" on paper.


Chess Pwn wrote:
I don't have Hero-lab, nor do I intend on getting it. But Thanks to everyone for their answers. It unfortunately solidified that I need "everything" on paper.

What did you have?

If you only wanted a minimal character sheet, were you planning on having the other stuff elsewhere? Or just winging it?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

I still use the sheet from the back of the CRB. Pencil and paper all the way. I find the sheet works fine, even into the teen levels. I also keep my sheet in the plastic binder inserts to keep it as undamaged as possible throughout its career. This works pretty well: my level 16 barbarian has had the same sheet since level 1.

When I get higher level, and have variable attack bonuses, I use the extra weapon lines to fill in that info. For example, a character with BAB 4+ and power attack will have a "weapon" named Power Attack that has -2 hit and +4 damage (+6 if that character uses a two handed weapon). I repeat this for the most common self buffs that character uses. So when I attack, I can quickly add the modifiers up as I roll, which makes combat math a snap.

In addition, I always have some disposable/erasable secondary "work sheet" where I can track buffs, debuffs, take notes, etc. Since my sheets are in those plastic sleeves, those sleeves + dry erase markers effectively turn them into this "work sheet."

Silver Crusade 4/5

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Maybe it's just me, but I've always considered filling out my character sheet more a labor of love rather than a chore. But then again, i am an accountant. :-)

1/5

thejeff wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
I don't have Hero-lab, nor do I intend on getting it. But Thanks to everyone for their answers. It unfortunately solidified that I need "everything" on paper.

What did you have?

If you only wanted a minimal character sheet, were you planning on having the other stuff elsewhere? Or just winging it?

I have a spreadsheet that his my character info on it, and cells that trigger effect, like [rage][0 or 1] if [1] str +4. I have all my effects and common buffs made to apply any changes to any stat. This way hardly no in-game calculations need to be made. And I don't have to keep track of how much does this buff give and remember to add it when needed.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Chess Pwn wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
I don't have Hero-lab, nor do I intend on getting it. But Thanks to everyone for their answers. It unfortunately solidified that I need "everything" on paper.

What did you have?

If you only wanted a minimal character sheet, were you planning on having the other stuff elsewhere? Or just winging it?

I have a spreadsheet that his my character info on it, and cells that trigger effect, like [rage][0 or 1] if [1] str +4. I have all my effects and common buffs made to apply any changes to any stat. This way hardly no in-game calculations need to be made. And I don't have to keep track of how much does this buff give and remember to add it when needed.

Why not have that--which is awesome, btw--as well as a physical sheet? Just fill out or print off a standard character sheet to show gms, if the ones in your area prefer that, then use your laptop for all those calculations.

Silver Crusade 4/5

You definitely need a paper copy, in case the laptop dies. I've seen it happen.

1/5

Walter Sheppard wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
I don't have Hero-lab, nor do I intend on getting it. But Thanks to everyone for their answers. It unfortunately solidified that I need "everything" on paper.

What did you have?

If you only wanted a minimal character sheet, were you planning on having the other stuff elsewhere? Or just winging it?

I have a spreadsheet that his my character info on it, and cells that trigger effect, like [rage][0 or 1] if [1] str +4. I have all my effects and common buffs made to apply any changes to any stat. This way hardly no in-game calculations need to be made. And I don't have to keep track of how much does this buff give and remember to add it when needed.
Why not have that--which is awesome, btw--as well as a physical sheet? Just fill out or print off a standard character sheet to show gms, if the ones in your area prefer that, then use your laptop for all those calculations.

I definitely plan to continue using my spreadsheet. But I was informed of the rule that you need a paper copy to be legal to play. Thus I was wanting to see what info I needed for that paper copy, since I wasn't fond of the idea of having to write out everything I already had on my sheet. But alas it seems EVERYTHING is required to be written on the sheet.

Silver Crusade 3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Chess Pwn wrote:
But alas it seems EVERYTHING is required to be written on the sheet.

Really, the bare minimum will provide for two things: (1) the ability for you to run the character if your machine goes kaput in the middle of the game; (2) allow the GM to look over your character if they decide to audit—without them needing to handle your expensive piece of equipment nor interpreting your spreadsheet.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Plus, GMs are by PFS guidelines not supposed to be handling other people's electronic equipment(ie, tablets/phones). There's a few threads and discussions about it, which generally boil down to liability reasons.

Dark Archive 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Plus, GMs are by PFS guidelines not supposed to be handling other people's electronic equipment(ie, tablets/phones). There's a few threads and discussions about it, which generally boil down to liability reasons.

That misstates the case a bit.

The campaign does not wish to ever get involved in a "that GM broke my expensive electronics while they were looking at my character sheet" conversations. For those GMs who are not willing to handle others' electronics for whatever reason, a minimum standard needed to exist and that standard is paper.

This standard seems a little dicey to me because we are 100% in favor of continuing to use watermarked PDF for additional resources rule item access, but a ruling was demanded, so a ruling we received.

Shadow Lodge *

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I've been very happy using printouts of the PDF from the Character Folio as my character sheet. It's long enough (15 pages) that you actually have room to write out all the conditionals.

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I also go with everything there is space for on the character sheet from the CRB should be listed. Feats and such need not have all the text, but at least the names of them, and hopefully a very short indication of what they do. Don't forget your traits and any alternate racial traits. Simply put: anything that has a mechanical effect on the game, whether than be numerical or otherwise.

Off topic:

Muser wrote:
My pet peeve is people who do not count their boni together beforehand but instead start this tedious 1+2+3 when I ask for a ranged attack roll. . .
Ascalaphus wrote:
. . . By then you're often adding five or more different boni to your attack roll, and they change every other round as buffs and debuffs come and go.

The plural of bonus is bonuses.

The Exchange 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mike Lindner wrote:

I also go with everything there is space for on the character sheet from the CRB should be listed. Feats and such need not have all the text, but at least the names of them, and hopefully a very short indication of what they do. Don't forget your traits and any alternate racial traits. Simply put: anything that has a mechanical effect on the game, whether than be numerical or otherwise.

Off topic:

Muser wrote:
My pet peeve is people who do not count their boni together beforehand but instead start this tedious 1+2+3 when I ask for a ranged attack roll. . .
Ascalaphus wrote:
. . . By then you're often adding five or more different boni to your attack roll, and they change every other round as buffs and debuffs come and go.
The plural of bonus is bonuses.

I'm totally using boni from now on :P

Scarab Sages 4/5 **

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Chess Pwn wrote:

I have a spreadsheet that his my character info on it, and cells that trigger effect, like [rage][0 or 1] if [1] str +4. I have all my effects and common buffs made to apply any changes to any stat. This way hardly no in-game calculations need to be made. And I don't have to keep track of how much does this buff give and remember to add it when
....
I definitely plan to continue using my spreadsheet. But I was informed of the rule that you need a paper copy to be legal to play. Thus I was wanting to see what info I needed for that paper copy, since I wasn't fond of the idea of having to write out everything I already had on my sheet. But alas it seems EVERYTHING is required to be written on the sheet.

Sounds like you've made a cool spreadsheet that works well for your character. A couple of my players have as well. Some people really like working in Excel and flexing their Tech skills. It's a good way to add to the hobby (that's where things like HeroLab come from!)

I think you could create a second worksheet in Excel for your character that is more GM friendly - it just summarizes your characters stats and abilities. It could just call out information from your main sheet (that you mostly tinker with). You can use the standard character sheet in the CRB, or a pregen sheet as a guide for format and what info you might need to show.

For Example, you could list class features (like Rage, Uncanny Dodge) and not list descriptions of these features- instead list sources and page numbers.

Similarly, I don't think your character sheet (for the GM) needs to math out variable things like your to-hit when raging. Just be able to show your GM that you have Rage, and the Power Attack feat. The Summary sheet should be simple.

I think you should be able to (with some work, I admit) create a summary sheet you can show a GM, or print up for a GM, as needed. You wouldn't need to re-do the summary every game - anymore than you need to update your own special spreadsheet every game.

You just need to be able to show all the details you'd expect on a normal character sheet to a GM in a reasonably understandable format. Your special code sheet might not meet that criteria, but I think if you've created that, you can create a cool summary sheet as well.

Best of luck to you.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Regarding Grandpoobah's post, and speaking as a former Excel freak, you can probably just setup a tab in yoru existing spreadsheet that mostly just uses links to your in-play spreadsheet tab, and puts it into a format like a pregen or monster stat block.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mike Lindner wrote:

I also go with everything there is space for on the character sheet from the CRB should be listed. Feats and such need not have all the text, but at least the names of them, and hopefully a very short indication of what they do. Don't forget your traits and any alternate racial traits. Simply put: anything that has a mechanical effect on the game, whether than be numerical or otherwise.

Off topic:

Muser wrote:
My pet peeve is people who do not count their boni together beforehand but instead start this tedious 1+2+3 when I ask for a ranged attack roll. . .
Ascalaphus wrote:
. . . By then you're often adding five or more different boni to your attack roll, and they change every other round as buffs and debuffs come and go.
The plural of bonus is bonuses.

Apparently in English it is. In Dutch it can be either 'bonussen' (dutchified) or 'boni' (like the original Latin).

I learn something new every day.

5/5

grandpoobah wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:

I have a spreadsheet that his my character info on it, and cells that trigger effect, like [rage][0 or 1] if [1] str +4. I have all my effects and common buffs made to apply any changes to any stat. This way hardly no in-game calculations need to be made. And I don't have to keep track of how much does this buff give and remember to add it when
....
I definitely plan to continue using my spreadsheet. But I was informed of the rule that you need a paper copy to be legal to play. Thus I was wanting to see what info I needed for that paper copy, since I wasn't fond of the idea of having to write out everything I already had on my sheet. But alas it seems EVERYTHING is required to be written on the sheet.

Sounds like you've made a cool spreadsheet that works well for your character. A couple of my players have as well. Some people really like working in Excel and flexing their Tech skills. It's a good way to add to the hobby (that's where things like HeroLab come from!)

I think you could create a second worksheet in Excel for your character that is more GM friendly - it just summarizes your characters stats and abilities. It could just call out information from your main sheet (that you mostly tinker with). You can use the standard character sheet in the CRB, or a pregen sheet as a guide for format and what info you might need to show.

For Example, you could list class features (like Rage, Uncanny Dodge) and not list descriptions of these features- instead list sources and page numbers.

Similarly, I don't think your character sheet (for the GM) needs to math out variable things like your to-hit when raging. Just be able to show your GM that you have Rage, and the Power Attack feat. The Summary sheet should be simple.

I think you should be able to (with some work, I admit) create a summary sheet you can show a GM, or print up for a GM, as needed. You wouldn't need to re-do the summary every game - anymore than you need to update your own special spreadsheet...

Yup, a print out of the spreadsheet is fine as long as an average GM can find the common stuff on it: skills, feats, saves, etc. You don't need to write everything out on a piece of paper if you can get the same information by printing your spreadsheet.

I created Excel spreadsheets for two of my characters before I started using Hero Lab and I continue to use the spreadsheets for those characters even now as they do more than Hero Lab.

For anyone that is using Hero Lab I heartily recommend producing printable versions using custom output with AncientOne's sheet. This is downloadable right from within Hero Lab. I find it to be much more readable compared to the default PDF output. I like to open the result in Chrome and rearrange some things like put the consumable resources on the first page and set the skills to an alternate format. I then "print" it to a PDF saved to Google Drive, which makes it easier to print a hard copy later since I don't have a printer at home.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Chess Pwn wrote:


I have a spreadsheet that his my character info on it, and cells that trigger effect, like [rage][0 or 1] if [1] str +4. I have all my effects and common buffs made to apply any changes to any stat. This way hardly no in-game calculations need to be made. And I don't have to keep track of how much does this buff give and remember to add it when needed.

Wow, you have already have done a lot of the work. I assume you have your computer with you so you can enter information into it during play.

Just add a new tab that you list all your stuff and other stats. You can pattern it after a character sheet. The setup would be a little time but once you have it done once it should be pretty easy to update for new stuff and use again. You can them just print the tab with the basic information and use the other tab for you game time.

This is a pretty good chance that an spreadsheet already exists that you can modify to use with yours.

Dark Archive 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

I'll keep filing bug reports on HeroLab's output to statblock format until it's producing things I find are good enough. PFRPG statblock format is my preference at this point.

Might have something to do with the amount of stat blocks I've looked at though.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

One of the most common things I've seen in our Lodge are fillable character sheets. Just a PDF file of a blank character sheet, and you type in the information. It's a lot easier than writing it all out, it can be printed and stored, and all the GMs I've met accept it as a valid source. Easy to find online; just type in 'Pathfinder fillable character sheet' or something similar. Also, it's nice for people who's handwriting is illegible *cough*mostofourGMs*cough* or who don't want smudgy pencil marks everywhere.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Ascalaphus wrote:
Mike Lindner wrote:

I also go with everything there is space for on the character sheet from the CRB should be listed. Feats and such need not have all the text, but at least the names of them, and hopefully a very short indication of what they do. Don't forget your traits and any alternate racial traits. Simply put: anything that has a mechanical effect on the game, whether than be numerical or otherwise.

Off topic:

Muser wrote:
My pet peeve is people who do not count their boni together beforehand but instead start this tedious 1+2+3 when I ask for a ranged attack roll. . .
Ascalaphus wrote:
. . . By then you're often adding five or more different boni to your attack roll, and they change every other round as buffs and debuffs come and go.
The plural of bonus is bonuses.

Apparently in English it is. In Dutch it can be either 'bonussen' (dutchified) or 'boni' (like the original Latin).

I learn something new every day.

I've always used "boni". And "meese".


Muser wrote:


I've always used "boni". And "meese".

Goose: Geese -> Moose: Meese

Mouse: Mice -> House: Hice

English is weird.

But I actually use "meeses".

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Phoenyx Aurelian wrote:
One of the most common things I've seen in our Lodge are fillable character sheets. Just a PDF file of a blank character sheet, and you type in the information. It's a lot easier than writing it all out, it can be printed and stored, and all the GMs I've met accept it as a valid source. Easy to find online; just type in 'Pathfinder fillable character sheet' or something similar. Also, it's nice for people who's handwriting is illegible *cough*mostofourGMs*cough* or who don't want smudgy pencil marks everywhere.

This is my preferred method. I redo the PDF for every adventure.

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