Advanced Class Guide errata is up!


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Scarab Sages Venture-Agent, Washington—Ballard aka WiseWolfOfYoitsu

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@Mark With the changes made to Pummeling Style, are you guys planning to re-write the flavor text for the feats? It no longer fits the Falcon Punch flavor text it's written with.

Original:
"You collect all your power into a single vicious and debilitating punch."

Errata:
“Your unarmed strikes weave together in an effortless combo, focusing on the spots you’ve weakened with the last hit.”


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have a question still about the Skald's Rage powers:

"If the rage power's effects depend on the skald's ability modifier (such as lesser spirit totem), affected allies use the skald's ability modifier instead of their own for the purposes of this effect."

So I get that if I grant Lesser Spirit Totem to my allies they use my Cha mod instead of their own for the attacks and damage. But do they use their own BAB? It doesn't say that they use mine, only my ability mod.


In my opinion I'd use their BAB. Description is quite precise stating everything that's using the skald's statistics instead of the allies' one.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Just an FYI on something that (intentionally) did not make the errata. Per Mark, Investigators cannot use spell-trigger items, and that is intentional. I know many people in PFS, myself included, were confused about this one and ruling the other way. Now we have something mostly official.


*checks errata*

Huzzah! Huzzah! Divine Protection is nerfed!

Grand Lodge 2/5

Alexander S. Modeus wrote:

*checks errata*

Huzzah! Huzzah! Divine Protection is nerfed!

Divine Protection wasn't PFS legal. (of course now it probably will be but it won't matter because no one will ever take it)

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Robert Hetherington wrote:

Double: You can use a double weapon to fight as if fighting with two weapons.

Slashin Grace: You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons

Doesn't work.

But would it work in turns where you only used it as a dagger (and so weren't fighting with two weapons)?

Silver Crusade

Robert Hetherington wrote:
Mr Oger wrote:

Hello, i need some help with my "heavy wounded" character.

He is swash1/fighter(two weapon warrior) 2 with two weapon slashing grace falcatas. Right now even with slashing grace retrain he is useless because of 7 str. What can i do to him? May i totaly rebuild him?
Wait until Monday when the new Guide to Organized Play comes out with more comprehensive retraining rules.

Still nothing there...

I guess he is dead now.
The proud son of Gorum just got an arrow in the...

Sovereign Court 3/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The day is not done. Second posts don't usually occur until after 3pm PST.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

The folks in charge of the blog are juggling many projects right now, but I know the blog is on its way.


Andoran Sentinel wrote:
Protoman wrote:

Yea I know no one was commenting about the action economy. I'm just grumpy that they only fixed the most easy-to-fix issue about the archetype.

Movie and comic Cap mostly uses unarmed (in "Captain Andoran: The Winter Rider" anyways) which I appreciate. Only shield bashing occasionally as it seems slower than his fists or kicks. Him releasing to throw shield or catching and restrapping it was way faster than 6 seconds though.

I'll grant you that but it wasn't less then a second (swift/free action) it was at least a move action (1-3 seconds). It's not a waste of an archetype though, as melkiador said, because this is not a ranged focus class. Sure I'm going to be throwing my shield until I get within punching distance but when I'm within punching distance I'm punching.

Oh definitely! I built my Captain Andoran character to be very-punchy! lol

Brawling armor. Pummeling Style as one of his regular feats rather than via martial flexibility. Combat Expertise and Power Attack to qualify for majority of the Improved Maneuver feats for more melee (and eventual thrown shield) options in combat.
I still got Quick Draw and light quickdraw throwing shield so that a ranged weapon option is always at hand and can immediately be utilized. I saw that movie around 8 times and I'm pretty sure during the stealth-invading-ship scene in beginning of the movie he was strapping that shield back in a second at most once he catches the shield on the move.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
claudekennilol wrote:
Alexander S. Modeus wrote:

*checks errata*

Huzzah! Huzzah! Divine Protection is nerfed!

Divine Protection wasn't PFS legal. (of course now it probably will be but it won't matter because no one will ever take it)

Swashbucklers might take that feat, now that the feat provides a special benefit to them.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Designer

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:


The week before Gen Con. What a good time for this kind of sorting out.
well they did say they wanted it out before gen con so that they could sort it out some before the con. so hopefully they will spend a few days at the start of next week answering some of these questions maybe?
I've been spending part of my weekend gathering them, anyway; I'm hoping we of the PDT can discuss them before Gencon (no promises, we are uber-swamped as you might expect, but I'll try). Honestly, I'm just glad it wasn't right before Gencon because it gives at least a little time.
yeah, I've been super impressed by how much you've done already. and I totally understand that you guys are busy for the con, we have the errata, that's good for sure, anything more is super bonus
I just want to do more, even though I know I might not be able to. I've been in the situation of waiting for errata, or for clarifications, as a player, and I know how it feels. Thank you for your patience, and I'll see what I can stir up!

In response to myself here: Thanks to all the great people here at the office who put up with the frenzied whirlwind of activity I needed to cause in order to get all this ready with awesomeness and grace, despite having their own frenzied whirlwind of pre-Gencon activity to handle, somehow I did manage to get a series of four clarifications up on the FAQ, quickly enough to be ready before Gencon. I am seriously surprised that we managed to do this (though my weekend searches through the forum helped). Anyways, here's a link (it goes to the first alphabetically, and you can scroll down and look for red ones).

5/5 5/55/55/5

Oh nice...

Since a buckler isn't occupying a hand, dervish dancers can get in on that too.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Designer

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Oh nice...

Since a buckler isn't occupying a hand, dervish dancers can get in on that too.

I believe that dervish dance has specific wording against all shields, which Slashing Grace does not. In any case, this FAQ does not apply to Dervish Dance.

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Oh nice...

Since a buckler isn't occupying a hand, dervish dancers can get in on that too.

I believe that dervish dance has specific wording against all shields, which Slashing Grace does not. In any case, this FAQ does not apply to Dervish Dance.

Dervish Dance prohibits carrying a shield in your off hand. It's a weird wording.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Oh nice...

Since a buckler isn't occupying a hand, dervish dancers can get in on that too.

I believe that dervish dance has specific wording against all shields, which Slashing Grace does not. In any case, this FAQ does not apply to Dervish Dance.

=\

Can a Magus still benefit from Dervish Dance during Spell Combat?

The way the FAQ reads, it appears not.

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Oh nice...

Since a buckler isn't occupying a hand, dervish dancers can get in on that too.

I believe that dervish dance has specific wording against all shields, which Slashing Grace does not. In any case, this FAQ does not apply to Dervish Dance.

Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.

It has wording against shields being in the off hand, which the errata says bucklers are not. The buckler being in the off hand for one feat but not in the off hand for another is headache inducing. I can't decide if I've had too many shots or not nearly enough...

The rules actually working like this sometimes are why people try really weird rules arguments...

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
In response to myself here: Thanks to all the great people here at the office who put up with the frenzied whirlwind of activity I needed to cause in order to get all this ready with awesomeness and grace, despite having their own frenzied whirlwind of pre-Gencon activity to handle, somehow I did manage to get a series of four clarifications up on the FAQ, quickly enough to be ready before Gencon. I am seriously surprised that we managed to do this (though my weekend searches through the forum helped). Anyways, here's a link (it goes to the first alphabetically, and you can scroll down and look for red ones).

This is great. Thanks, Mark! (And everyone else who got it together!)

3/5 5/5

Dervish dance remains the most effective way to get Dex to Damage for a Magus, although Fencing grace isn't too bad, with either a human, a Kensai magus, or someone willing to dip swashbuckler or fighter. Either way Dex to damage is available as early as 3rd level without inordinate dipping.


Nefreet wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Oh nice...

Since a buckler isn't occupying a hand, dervish dancers can get in on that too.

I believe that dervish dance has specific wording against all shields, which Slashing Grace does not. In any case, this FAQ does not apply to Dervish Dance or any other abilities or alter them in any way from the way they have worked.

=\

Can a Magus still benefit from Dervish Dance during Spell Combat?

The way the FAQ reads, it appears not.

Consensus points to no, the off-hand is considered occupied by the spell effect.

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Dervish dance remains the most effective way to get Dex to Damage for a Magus, although Fencing grace isn't too bad, with either a human, a Kensai magus, or someone willing to dip swashbuckler or fighter. Either way Dex to damage is available as early as 3rd level without inordinate dipping.

If you planned on dipping anyway, 3 levels of Unchained Rogue wouldn't kill you.

But the way things are shaping up it's a matter of time before that effect gets the "Dex to damage with one unoccupied hand only" treatment too.


Totes McScrotes wrote:

If you planned on dipping anyway, 3 levels of Unchained Rogue wouldn't kill you.

But the way things are shaping up it's a matter of time before that effect gets the "Dex to damage with one unoccupied hand only" treatment too.

That would be awkward since they FAQ'd rather recently that unchained rogues would get 1.5xDex modifier if they hold a finessable two handed weapon.

Sovereign Court 5/5

Totes McScrotes wrote:

Can a Magus still benefit from Dervish Dance during Spell Combat?

The way the FAQ reads, it appears not.

Consensus points to no, the off-hand is considered occupied by the spell effect.

Dervish dance isn't stopped by all things in the off hand, only weapons and shields

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Kigvan wrote:
Totes McScrotes wrote:

Can a Magus still benefit from Dervish Dance during Spell Combat?

The way the FAQ reads, it appears not.

Consensus points to no, the off-hand is considered occupied by the spell effect.

Dervish dance isn't stopped by all things in the off hand, only weapons and shields

So, would a weapon-like spell being cast count as a weapon for Dervish Dance?

3/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Totes McScrotes wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Oh nice...

Since a buckler isn't occupying a hand, dervish dancers can get in on that too.

I believe that dervish dance has specific wording against all shields, which Slashing Grace does not. In any case, this FAQ does not apply to Dervish Dance or any other abilities or alter them in any way from the way they have worked.

=\

Can a Magus still benefit from Dervish Dance during Spell Combat?

The way the FAQ reads, it appears not.

Consensus points to no, the off-hand is considered occupied by the spell effect.

FAQs mean what they say and ONLY what they say. This FAQ does not have any relevance on any feat other than slashing grace. The design team has always operated on that assumption. Don't try to make precedent based on analogies.

Quote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Dervish dance remains the most effective way to get Dex to Damage for a Magus, although Fencing grace isn't too bad, with either a human, a Kensai magus, or someone willing to dip swashbuckler or fighter. Either way Dex to damage is available as early as 3rd level without inordinate dipping.
If you planned on dipping anyway, 3 levels of Unchained Rogue wouldn't kill you.

Really? You think taking 3 levels of Rogue is going to make for a viable Magus, when you only have 11 effective levels to work with in PFS? How does having 2nd level spells at 7th level work?


So... lemme get this right: the errata to Slashing Grace invalidates the example that the original text cited (i.e. Longsword)?

Edit: eh, nvm was looking at wrong page.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Sir Baltazar wrote:
So... lemme get this right: the errata to Slashing Grace invalidates the example that the original text cited (i.e. Longsword)?

Could you be more specific, please? I'm not sure I understand.

The feat's interaction with longswords hasn't changed, if that's what you mean. A character with Slashing Grace (longsword) still uses Str for attacks and Dex for damage, unless she also has the Swashbuckler's/Champion's Finesse class feature.

EDIT: Glad that's sorted out. ^_^

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:


The week before Gen Con. What a good time for this kind of sorting out.
well they did say they wanted it out before gen con so that they could sort it out some before the con. so hopefully they will spend a few days at the start of next week answering some of these questions maybe?
I've been spending part of my weekend gathering them, anyway; I'm hoping we of the PDT can discuss them before Gencon (no promises, we are uber-swamped as you might expect, but I'll try). Honestly, I'm just glad it wasn't right before Gencon because it gives at least a little time.
yeah, I've been super impressed by how much you've done already. and I totally understand that you guys are busy for the con, we have the errata, that's good for sure, anything more is super bonus
I just want to do more, even though I know I might not be able to. I've been in the situation of waiting for errata, or for clarifications, as a player, and I know how it feels. Thank you for your patience, and I'll see what I can stir up!
In response to myself here: Thanks to all the great people here at the office who put up with the frenzied whirlwind of activity I needed to cause in order to get all this ready with awesomeness and grace, despite having their own frenzied whirlwind of pre-Gencon activity to handle, somehow I did manage to get a series of four clarifications up on the FAQ, quickly enough to be ready before Gencon. I am seriously surprised that we managed to do this (though my weekend searches through the forum helped). Anyways, here's a link (it goes to the first alphabetically, and you can scroll down and look for red ones).

Whaaaaaat. this one killed another character, kensai master of many styles daring champion (main idea - samurai without armor). wtf, paizo D:

Grand Lodge

Mr Oger wrote:
Whaaaaaat. this one killed another character, kensai master of many styles daring champion (main idea - samurai without armor). wtf, paizo D:

The new FAQs did? If so how? I'm honestly curious.


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Really? You think taking 3 levels of Rogue is going to make for a viable Magus, when you only have 11 effective levels to work with in PFS? How does having 2nd level spells at 7th level work?

Let me ask my Bloodrager, Paladin or Ranger.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Totes McScrotes wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Really? You think taking 3 levels of Rogue is going to make for a viable Magus, when you only have 11 effective levels to work with in PFS? How does having 2nd level spells at 7th level work?
Let me ask my Bloodrager, Paladin or Ranger.

You go ahead and ask your full BAB dippable classes...

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Joe Ducey wrote:
Mr Oger wrote:
Whaaaaaat. this one killed another character, kensai master of many styles daring champion (main idea - samurai without armor). wtf, paizo D:
The new FAQs did? If so how? I'm honestly curious.

I assume, that he used spell combat to increase his number of attacks and action ecconomy, which no longer works with slashing grace (and kensei are quite often dex based...).


Contingent Action... :(

Have they fixed the Warpriest's Kit errata error yet?


claudekennilol wrote:
Totes McScrotes wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Really? You think taking 3 levels of Rogue is going to make for a viable Magus, when you only have 11 effective levels to work with in PFS? How does having 2nd level spells at 7th level work?
Let me ask my Bloodrager, Paladin or Ranger.
You go ahead and ask your full BAB dippable classes...

Bloodrager couldn't hear me over the crappy saves. And all 3 lose class abilities when you dip, way harder than anyone but the Bladebound or Kensai.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Totes McScrotes wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Totes McScrotes wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Really? You think taking 3 levels of Rogue is going to make for a viable Magus, when you only have 11 effective levels to work with in PFS? How does having 2nd level spells at 7th level work?
Let me ask my Bloodrager, Paladin or Ranger.
You go ahead and ask your full BAB dippable classes...
Bloodrager couldn't hear me over the crappy saves. And all 3 lose class abilities when you dip, way harder than anyone but the Bladebound or Kensai.

Really, that's your argument? Players dip paladin all the time for charisma to saves or ranger for combat styles. Bloodragers get dipped for rage and arcane abilities. What do people dip magus for. Oh right. Nothing.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Paladin of Baha who? wrote:
FAQs mean what they say and ONLY what they say. This FAQ does not have any relevance on any feat other than slashing grace. The design team has always operated on that assumption. Don't try to make precedent based on analogies.

Like it or not, it answers the ambiguous questions of "is a buckler in your off hand" and "is a spell in your other hand a weapon". Those answers are going to be hard to compartmentalize into just this one feat.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Really? You think taking 3 levels of Rogue is going to make for a viable Magus, when you only have 11 effective levels to work with in PFS? How does having 2nd level spells at 7th level work?

Really well, actually. At least it hasn't been a problem for my Magus with 4 levels of Monk.

Grand Lodge

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Mr Oger wrote:
Whaaaaaat. this one killed another character, kensai master of many styles daring champion (main idea - samurai without armor). wtf, paizo D:
The new FAQs did? If so how? I'm honestly curious.
I assume, that he used spell combat to increase his number of attacks and action ecconomy, which no longer works with slashing grace (and kensei are quite often dex based...).

With everything going on I missed the part about spell combat. (Though the magus can still kick it old school and get an agile weapon enchant)

3/5 5/5

Ok, granted, magi with significant dips in other classes can work. However, they are VERY different characters from the single-class slashing grace magus pre-errata. A person may not be interested in playing that kind of character, as opposed to an agile swordfighter who used magic.

Classes with 4 levels of casting ate balanced around that. Magi are not.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Paladin of Baha who? wrote:
FAQs mean what they say and ONLY what they say. This FAQ does not have any relevance on any feat other than slashing grace. The design team has always operated on that assumption. Don't try to make precedent based on analogies.

Like it or not, it answers the ambiguous questions of "is a buckler in your off hand" and "is a spell in your other hand a weapon". Those answers are going to be hard to compartmentalize into just this one feat.

It answers the first, but the errata'd slashing grace uses the word "occupied". What this FAQ does is indicate that spell casting occupies your free hand. If it were the touch spell acting as a weapon that mattered, then slashing grace would work with a spell that didn't involve an attack roll, such as true strike or Shield.


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Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:


It answers the first, but the errata'd slashing grace uses the word "occupied". What this FAQ does is indicate that spell casting occupies your free hand. If it were the touch spell acting as a weapon that mattered, then slashing grace would work with a spell that didn't involve an attack roll, such as true strike or Shield.

It's also important to note that Spell Combat states that it "functions much like two-weapon fighting, where the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast". The fact of your off-hand being occupied is pretty implicit.

5/5

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Magus use spells other than shocking grasp?

Edit: Hey, I'm beating myself!

Edit Edit: Sigh, phrasing.

Silver Crusade

A Dead Horse wrote:

Magus use spells other than shocking grasp?

Edit: Hey, I'm beating myself!

Edit Edit: Sigh, phrasing.

Get your implements of beating at Tamec's Blunt Emporium really low pricing, financing available.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Could not one use Still Spell, to remove the "occupying" effect of a spell?

Liberty's Edge 4/5

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claudekennilol wrote:
Totes McScrotes wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Totes McScrotes wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Really? You think taking 3 levels of Rogue is going to make for a viable Magus, when you only have 11 effective levels to work with in PFS? How does having 2nd level spells at 7th level work?
Let me ask my Bloodrager, Paladin or Ranger.
You go ahead and ask your full BAB dippable classes...
Bloodrager couldn't hear me over the crappy saves. And all 3 lose class abilities when you dip, way harder than anyone but the Bladebound or Kensai.
Really, that's your argument? Players dip paladin all the time for charisma to saves or ranger for combat styles. Bloodragers get dipped for rage and arcane abilities. What do people dip magus for. Oh right. Nothing.

I love me those blanket statements that are incorrect.

Fighter (Lore Warden) 8, Magus (Kensai) 4

3/5 5/5

That's more of a fighter with a magus dip, albeit a big one.

Grand Lodge

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
That's more of a fighter with a magus dip, albeit a big one.

Which I believe is exactly his point.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Joe Ducey wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
That's more of a fighter with a magus dip, albeit a big one.
Which I believe is exactly his point.

Yep. Bruno is a fairly high Int PC, Str-based Fighter, but with 16 Int, and he (I) ran across some nice wands in an adventure, so dipped into Magus, since it had the spells on those high CL wands, so he can use them, while still using his favored weapon.

Indeed, his levels of Kensai Magus synergized so well with his existing Fighter levels that he was able to retrain something like 4 feats, so going from improvised trip & disarm, against non-adjacent foes, to having Improved & Greater Trip, and Improved Disarm, so able to use at any range with his primary weapon, his whip.

I wish I had started dipping Magus earlier, but he still gets some use out of his spells, and is still obscene on the combat maneuvers...

The Exchange

Divine Protection went from ridiculously overpowered to why would anyone in their right mind waste a feat on this?

Silver Crusade

I have a swashbuckler that hasnt been locked-in yet that might take Divine Protection now. My bloodrager might have to grab it too.

It's like the Irrepressible trait (which is way too good for a trait), except it works on illusions and fears, too. Would have really liked that extra bonus vs. illusions on my sorc when her party got shadow evocation'd.

Being able to apply the bonus after the roll with Charmed Life is really nice, too, as it keeps you from wasting uses.

Will saves are a big deal. Iron Will is good enough to take on some feat-rich, save-starved characters, and this is better against all but a few things like channel negative energy and corrupting touch saves.

The Exchange

Hrothdane wrote:
I have a swashbuckler that hasnt been locked-in yet that might take Divine Protection now. My bloodrager might have to grab it too.

You realize it has been relegated to a 1 use / day now, right?

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