Advanced Class Guide errata is up!


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3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Everybody remember the errata retraining rules:

If a feat is changed, you keep the new version, ignoring any new prerequisites, or replace the feat for free.

Also:

Guide to Organized Play v 6.0 page 28 wrote:
If a class, prestige class, or a class feature-dependent ability score is altered: You may rebuild your character to its current XP, maintaining the same equipment.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

My psychic searcher oracle, Bobbi, got a boost! She now gets to base her inspiration pool off her charisma instead of her wisdom. I had resigned myself to having an inspiration pool of 1 for most of my career, so this is a happy change for me.

I also got happy news for my Spirit Guide Oracle as far as the life link off of the life spirit. The life link change is a good one.

BTW, this change could make a wisdom-based Oradin (someone who self-heals and automatically heals others while still getting to fight in melee) possible by multi-classing Inquisitor or Warpriest with Shaman.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Joseph Kellogg wrote:

Everybody remember the errata retraining rules:

If a feat is changed, you keep the new version, ignoring any new prerequisites, or replace the feat for free.

Also:

Guide to Organized Play v 6.0 page 28 wrote:
If a class, prestige class, or a class feature-dependent ability score is altered: You may rebuild your character to its current XP, maintaining the same equipment.

So my friend has an arcanist archetype he can no longer use because his charisma isn't high enough.

Does this mean he can retrain the archetype for free?

Grand Lodge 2/5

Hmm wrote:
Joseph Kellogg wrote:

Everybody remember the errata retraining rules:

If a feat is changed, you keep the new version, ignoring any new prerequisites, or replace the feat for free.

Also:

Guide to Organized Play v 6.0 page 28 wrote:
If a class, prestige class, or a class feature-dependent ability score is altered: You may rebuild your character to its current XP, maintaining the same equipment.

So my friend has an arcanist archetype he can no longer use because his charisma isn't high enough.

Does this mean he can retrain the archetype for free?

What arcanist archetype has a charisma requirement?

2/5

Andoran Sentinel wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Andoran Sentinel wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Shield Champion Brawlers are actually proficient with shields as weapons now.
Excellent

Action-economy stuff

Making no comments on their actions (though I tend to agree) just simply mentioning that they actually have proficiency now.
Watching the movies and reading the comics a certain hero who fights unarmed with a shield and throws the shield, doesn't throw the shield every time. He uses it as a melee weapon most of the time. Also, in the movies it takes him 6 - 10 seconds for him to reset the shield after he throws it.

Yea I know no one was commenting about the action economy. I'm just grumpy that they only fixed the most easy-to-fix issue about the archetype.

Movie and comic Cap mostly uses unarmed (in "Captain Andoran: The Winter Rider" anyways) which I appreciate. Only shield bashing occasionally as it seems slower than his fists or kicks. Him releasing to throw shield or catching and restrapping it was way faster than 6 seconds though.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Hmm wrote:
Joseph Kellogg wrote:

Everybody remember the errata retraining rules:

If a feat is changed, you keep the new version, ignoring any new prerequisites, or replace the feat for free.

Also:

Guide to Organized Play v 6.0 page 28 wrote:
If a class, prestige class, or a class feature-dependent ability score is altered: You may rebuild your character to its current XP, maintaining the same equipment.

So my friend has an arcanist archetype he can no longer use because his charisma isn't high enough.

Does this mean he can retrain the archetype for free?

I don't know about archetypes, but if you're talking about the exploits that now require Charisma where they didn't before, then he can retrain the character in full (not just the archetype), except for equipment. So that includes rejiggering stats or even race to get more Charisma, or abandoning the concept entirely and going for something else (again, with the same equipment).


Joe Ducey wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Andoran Sentinel wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Shield Champion Brawlers are actually proficient with shields as weapons now.
Excellent

Action-economy stuff

Making no comments on their actions (though I tend to agree) just simply mentioning that they actually have proficiency now.

The thing is that if you aren't going to throw the shield, the archetype now has very little point. The base brawler is now very adequate at fighting with shields on his own.

Scarab Sages 2/5

Sidenote:

Page 5 wrote:

In the Steadfast Personality entry, change the

Benefits entry to “Use your Charisma modifier on saves
against mind-affecting effects”.
Page 6 wrote:

In the Steadfast Personality feat, change

the Benefit section to “Benefit: Add your Charisma
modifier instead of your Wisdom bonus on Will saves.
If you have a Wisdom penalty, you must apply both your
Wisdom penalty and your Charisma modifier.”

Will saves, or Will saves against Mind-affecting effects?

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cao Phen wrote:

Sidenote:

Page 5 wrote:

In the Steadfast Personality entry, change the

Benefits entry to “Use your Charisma modifier on saves
against mind-affecting effects”.
Page 6 wrote:

In the Steadfast Personality feat, change

the Benefit section to “Benefit: Add your Charisma
modifier instead of your Wisdom bonus on Will saves.
If you have a Wisdom penalty, you must apply both your
Wisdom penalty and your Charisma modifier.”
Will saves, or Will saves against Mind-affecting effects?

It seems to be just Will Saves. Looks to me like this was a compromise with the complete nerf of Divine Protection to make Steadfast Personality better, but not tremendously overpowered by forcing the Wisdom penalty to still apply.

The Exchange 2/5

Posted a question about changes to Surprise Maneuvers over on the product thread -- looking for insight/input on this one for us sneak attacking combat maneuver fans:

Product Thread post

Thanks all,

-Goh

EDIT: Fixed url

2/5

With the change to Slashing Grace, that devestates the use of the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency Sawtooth Sabre.

Is that feat also game to retrain for free since you can't use Slashing Grash and a sawtooth sabre in the offhand?

Liberty's Edge 2/5

The change to the Bolt Ace archetype for the Gunslinger includes starting with a masterwork crossbow of the player's choice, and they start out proficient with all crossbows now. Also, there is no language specifying that you can't sell the free masterwork crossbow so theoretically, you could start with a masterwork repeating hand crossbow, which costs 1100 gp, and sell it for 550 gp.

Seems like this probably wasn't intended to work this way, but as written in the errata, this appears to be the case.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Free items from class features or prestige are worth 0 gold for purposes of reselling.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Rory wrote:

With the change to Slashing Grace, that devestates the use of the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency Sawtooth Sabre.

Is that feat also game to retrain for free since you can't use Slashing Grash and a sawtooth sabre in the offhand?

In general I'd say no.

Liberty's Edge 2/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Free items from class features or prestige are worth 0 gold for purposes of reselling.

Ah, okay. It was weird because there was specific language about the starting gun for the gunslinger being worthless if sold since it was battered, etc. Didn't realize there was a general rule about it since it hasn't come up for me before.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Andrew Christian wrote:
Rory wrote:

With the change to Slashing Grace, that devestates the use of the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency Sawtooth Sabre.

Is that feat also game to retrain for free since you can't use Slashing Grash and a sawtooth sabre in the offhand?

In general I'd say no.

Suggestions?

4/5 5/55/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis

claudekennilol wrote:
Hmm wrote:
Joseph Kellogg wrote:

Everybody remember the errata retraining rules:

If a feat is changed, you keep the new version, ignoring any new prerequisites, or replace the feat for free.

Also:

Guide to Organized Play v 6.0 page 28 wrote:
If a class, prestige class, or a class feature-dependent ability score is altered: You may rebuild your character to its current XP, maintaining the same equipment.

So my friend has an arcanist archetype he can no longer use because his charisma isn't high enough.

Does this mean he can retrain the archetype for free?

What arcanist archetype has a charisma requirement?

Occultist has an indirect one.

It isn't a case of no longer being able to use it. It is a matter of there being significantly less ways to refill the Arcane Pool.

At the start everything looks alright. It is as you climb levels that things start falling apart.

Occultist 7 can use Summon Monster 4, using 4 points from their Arcane Spell Reserve. Assuming a 10 Charisma, their starting reserve for the day would be 3 + 7 = 10, but they only fill it to 3 + 7/2 = 6, missing 4 points when they start the day. At 7th level, their highest spell level is 3. Consuming one of their highest spell slots is not enough to fill the reserve. With the errata, they only get to do this a number of times equal to their Charisma Mod (min 1), so they need a 14 Charisma to be able to completely fill their reserve.

I really wish it had been something like 3 + Charisma Mod rather than Charisma Mod (min 1) since at least that way there would be a difference in this between an Arcanist with a 7 Charisma and a 12 Charisma.

Extra Reservoir might partially fix this if you interpret is as adding to both the maximum and the amount gained daily when spells are prepared.

Consume Magic Item used to be a way to fix this, but now it also can only be used a number of times equal to their Charisma Mod (min 1) which really hampers things.

I still have to digest exactly what this errata means for my character.

2/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Andrew Christian wrote:
Rory wrote:

With the change to Slashing Grace, that devestates the use of the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency Sawtooth Sabre.

Is that feat also game to retrain for free since you can't use Slashing Grash and a sawtooth sabre in the offhand?

In general I'd say no.

In general, I'd agree with you.

However, due to the change to Slashing Grace, they are mutually exclusive. That's a drastic penalty to apply to the player in my group. I'm not apt to make him pay to retrain something that was changed due to the errata unless I am absolutely forced to do so.

3/5

Most of this seems ok.

I'm disappointed about the lack of clarification on the Bloodrager / Dragon Disciple interaction on bloodlines. But then that might be a more appropriate errata for the Dragon Disciple.

I'm also disappointed about the limitation on Rogue Talents that Slayers can take.


BretI wrote:


Occultist has an indirect one.

It isn't a case of no longer being able to use it. It is a matter of there being significantly less ways to refill the Arcane Pool.

At the start everything looks alright. It is as you climb levels that things start falling apart.

Occultist 7 can use Summon Monster 4, using 4 points from their Arcane Spell Reserve. Assuming a 10 Charisma, their starting reserve for the day would be 3 + 7 = 10, but they only fill it to 3 + 7/2 = 6, missing 4 points when they start the day. At 7th level, their highest spell level is 3. Consuming one of their highest spell slots is not enough to fill the reserve. With the errata, they only get to do this a number of times equal to their Charisma Mod (min 1), so they need a 14 Charisma to be able to completely fill their reserve.

I really wish it had been something like 3 + Charisma Mod rather than Charisma Mod (min 1) since at least that way there would be a difference in this between an Arcanist with a 7 Charisma and a 12 Charisma.

Extra Reservoir might partially fix this if you interpret is as adding to both the maximum and the amount gained daily when spells are prepared.

Consume Magic Item used to be a way to fix this, but now it also can only be used a number of times equal to their Charisma Mod (min 1) which really hampers things.

I still have to digest exactly what this errata means for my character.

I just created an Arcanist myself. But have the archetype that allows me to specialize in a Wizards school. I believe I am ok with this change as my Charisma is relatively high (18).

3/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Free items from class features or prestige are worth 0 gold for purposes of reselling.

Really? Where is that specified?

The only thing I've seen that addresses selling class-specific starting equipment is:

Additional Resources, Ultimate Combat wrote:
Gunslinger: A gunslinger's starting gun (granted by the gunsmith class feature) is worth 22 gp if sold (the average of 4d10).

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/55/5 ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
James Wygle wrote:
DrParty06 wrote:
Slashing Grace allows light weapons, but can only be used if other hands are unoccupied.
This one has me kind of upset, because last time I played my swashbuckler (a couple of months ago) I spent 10 PP to retrain from Dervish Dance to Slashing Grace (Quick Draw to Weapon Focus to qualify) so that I could use a freaking buckler, and now even if I get a free retrain back, I don't automatically get that prestige back.

I did this exact same thing, but I also bought a Swordmaster's Flair, which is now unusable with Slashing Grace.

5/5

TimD wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Free items from class features or prestige are worth 0 gold for purposes of reselling.

Really? Where is that specified?

The only thing I've seen that addresses selling class-specific starting equipment is:

Additional Resources, Ultimate Combat wrote:
Gunslinger: A gunslinger's starting gun (granted by the gunsmith class feature) is worth 22 gp if sold (the average of 4d10).

HERE

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks, Kevin.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Azara Emberkin wrote:
James Wygle wrote:
DrParty06 wrote:
Slashing Grace allows light weapons, but can only be used if other hands are unoccupied.
This one has me kind of upset, because last time I played my swashbuckler (a couple of months ago) I spent 10 PP to retrain from Dervish Dance to Slashing Grace (Quick Draw to Weapon Focus to qualify) so that I could use a freaking buckler, and now even if I get a free retrain back, I don't automatically get that prestige back.
I did this exact same thing, but I also bought a Swordmaster's Flair, which is now unusable with Slashing Grace.

It think you only have to grasp it to activate it. So Blue scarf and Green glove still work. Red sash seems problematic, and I haven't looked at the hankerchief

3/5

Kevin Ingle wrote:
TimD wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Free items from class features or prestige are worth 0 gold for purposes of reselling.

Really? Where is that specified?

The only thing I've seen that addresses selling class-specific starting equipment is:

Additional Resources, Ultimate Combat wrote:
Gunslinger: A gunslinger's starting gun (granted by the gunsmith class feature) is worth 22 gp if sold (the average of 4d10).
HERE

Random board post from 2012, that explains why I couldn't find it in the Guide...

Thanks!

-TimD

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/55/5 ***

These garish tokens usually take the form of a colorful clothing accessories. So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand, she can spend 1 panache point to gain the use of a specific ability associated with the token. Once per day, the bearer can use the token to gain the full benefit of the token without spending panache. Non-swashbucklers can use the tokens, but unless they have another way of gaining panache, they can use the ability only once per day. A character can benefit from only one token at a time; holding a second token provides no additional benefit. There are four types of tokens, each offering a different benefit.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Yes, it has to be in hand to activate. It does not have to REMAIN in hand while the ability is active.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/55/5 ***

"So long as" has a specific meaning.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Azara Emberkin wrote:
These garish tokens usually take the form of a colorful clothing accessories. So long as a token is grasped in the user’s off hand, she can spend 1 panache point to gain the use of a specific ability associated with the token. Once per day, the bearer can use the token to gain the full benefit of the token without spending panache. Non-swashbucklers can use the tokens, but unless they have another way of gaining panache, they can use the ability only once per day. A character can benefit from only one token at a time; holding a second token provides no additional benefit. There are four types of tokens, each offering a different benefit.

you have to grasp it, not wield it. So you don't have to draw it, you just have to be able to lay your hand on it and not have your hand occupied.

You only have to grasp it to activate it. It doesn't say anything about the effect ending if you release it.

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Azara Emberkin wrote:
"So long as" has a specific meaning.

So does "can spend 1 panache point to gain".

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Also, further on it mentions that holding two has no additional benefit. The intention seems clear you must hold it for it to work, not just to activate it.

Otherwise everyone would be dropping the token as a free action the moment after it was activated.

1/5

The change to Slashing Grace is going to make my wife's character a bit more awesome, actually. She's playing a catfolk 'cat burger' in a Reign of Winter AP, and she uses her claws for big sneak damage.

So - here's a question. Natural weapons (such as the catfolk claws) are considered "light" weapons. The change to Slashing Grace now adds light weapons to the feat. However, you still have to choose "one type" of weapon for the feat to work with.

My question is - is choosing "Natural Attacks" sufficient? Or must one select the specific natural attack, such as "Bite", or "Claw"?

Grand Lodge 4/5

You'd pick "Claw" or "Bite".

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

I concur.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Azara Emberkin wrote:

Also, further on it mentions that holding two has no additional benefit. The intention seems clear you must hold it for it to work, not just to activate it.

Otherwise everyone would be dropping the token as a free action the moment after it was activated.

I don't agree that that is the intention. Nor does dropping the token matter when you already have one benefit in place.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Tabletop Giant wrote:


The change to Slashing Grace is going to make my wife's character a bit more awesome, actually. She's playing a catfolk 'cat burger' in a Reign of Winter AP, and she uses her claws for big sneak damage.

So - here's a question. Natural weapons (such as the catfolk claws) are considered "light" weapons. The change to Slashing Grace now adds light weapons to the feat. However, you still have to choose "one type" of weapon for the feat to work with.

My question is - is choosing "Natural Attacks" sufficient? Or must one select the specific natural attack, such as "Bite", or "Claw"?

It will only work with ONE of her natural attacks AT A TIME. If she selected Slashing Grace (claw), she would only benefit from that feat if she attacks with ONLY ONE claw.


The Fourth Horseman wrote:
I'm disappointed about the lack of clarification on the Bloodrager / Dragon Disciple interaction on bloodlines. But then that might be a more appropriate errata for the Dragon Disciple.

Given their utter lack of enthusiasm for prestige classes and the potential for abuse out of dragon disciple, I think they deliberately ignored it.

1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Fox wrote:
It will only work with ONE of her natural attacks AT A TIME. If she selected Slashing Grace (claw), she would only benefit from that feat if she attacks with ONLY ONE claw.

Oh boo.

I think I'll join the disgruntled rabble now, and cross that feat off the list.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

The Fox wrote:
Tabletop Giant wrote:


The change to Slashing Grace is going to make my wife's character a bit more awesome, actually. She's playing a catfolk 'cat burger' in a Reign of Winter AP, and she uses her claws for big sneak damage.

So - here's a question. Natural weapons (such as the catfolk claws) are considered "light" weapons. The change to Slashing Grace now adds light weapons to the feat. However, you still have to choose "one type" of weapon for the feat to work with.

My question is - is choosing "Natural Attacks" sufficient? Or must one select the specific natural attack, such as "Bite", or "Claw"?

It will only work with ONE of her natural attacks AT A TIME. If she selected Slashing Grace (claw), she would only benefit from that feat if she attacks with ONLY ONE claw.

Whoa, what? What are you basing that on? It's certainky not the case for things like Weapon Focus, so what makes Slashing Grace different?

Silver Crusade 1/5 Contributor

Joseph Kellogg wrote:
The Fox wrote:
Tabletop Giant wrote:


The change to Slashing Grace is going to make my wife's character a bit more awesome, actually. She's playing a catfolk 'cat burger' in a Reign of Winter AP, and she uses her claws for big sneak damage.

So - here's a question. Natural weapons (such as the catfolk claws) are considered "light" weapons. The change to Slashing Grace now adds light weapons to the feat. However, you still have to choose "one type" of weapon for the feat to work with.

My question is - is choosing "Natural Attacks" sufficient? Or must one select the specific natural attack, such as "Bite", or "Claw"?

It will only work with ONE of her natural attacks AT A TIME. If she selected Slashing Grace (claw), she would only benefit from that feat if she attacks with ONLY ONE claw.
Whoa, what? What are you basing that on? It's certainky not the case for things like Weapon Focus, so what makes Slashing Grace different?

Probably the text added in the errata document we're discussing. ^_^

Silver Crusade 3/5

Joseph Kellogg wrote:
The Fox wrote:
Tabletop Giant wrote:


The change to Slashing Grace is going to make my wife's character a bit more awesome, actually. She's playing a catfolk 'cat burger' in a Reign of Winter AP, and she uses her claws for big sneak damage.

So - here's a question. Natural weapons (such as the catfolk claws) are considered "light" weapons. The change to Slashing Grace now adds light weapons to the feat. However, you still have to choose "one type" of weapon for the feat to work with.

My question is - is choosing "Natural Attacks" sufficient? Or must one select the specific natural attack, such as "Bite", or "Claw"?

It will only work with ONE of her natural attacks AT A TIME. If she selected Slashing Grace (claw), she would only benefit from that feat if she attacks with ONLY ONE claw.
Whoa, what? What are you basing that on? It's certainky not the case for things like Weapon Focus, so what makes Slashing Grace different?
Slashing Grace errata wrote:
You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

1/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Welp, 'Agile' property applied to her Amulet of Mighty Fists, then.

5/5 5/55/55/5

So...is it me or should we be seeing all of the swashbucklers at service at the temple of saranrae this weekend? Are we back to the rapier not being a viable swashbuckler weapon?

Silver Crusade 1/5 Contributor

BigNorseWolf wrote:

So...is it me or should we be seeing all of the swashbucklers at service at the temple of saranrae this weekend? Are we back to the rapier not being a viable swashbuckler weapon?

Rapier still works - Fencing Grace isn't affected by the change.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Kind of goofy that Slashing Grace no longer works at all for a Picaroon, since they seemed to be pretty much made for each other.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Melkiador wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Andoran Sentinel wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Shield Champion Brawlers are actually proficient with shields as weapons now.
Excellent

Action-economy stuff

Making no comments on their actions (though I tend to agree) just simply mentioning that they actually have proficiency now.
The thing is that if you aren't going to throw the shield, the archetype now has very little point. The base brawler is now very adequate at fighting with shields on his own.

True, but until the errata they were only proficient with shields as weapons (from the close weapon fighter group)

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So...is it me or should we be seeing all of the swashbucklers at service at the temple of saranrae this weekend?

Problem is that you can't use a Buckler with Dervish Dance, either.

Silver Crusade Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs

Kalindlara wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

So...is it me or should we be seeing all of the swashbucklers at service at the temple of saranrae this weekend? Are we back to the rapier not being a viable swashbuckler weapon?

Rapier still works - Fencing Grace isn't affected by the change.

Fencing Grace was the clue that slashing grace was going to be changed since fencing grace's wording matches the errata to slashing grace and they both match dervish dance now. I always assumed it was going to be changed.

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