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To back up for a minute: while I see there's lots of interest for access to new races, I think that removing races from the list is problematic, because it encourages the "race to second level". This makes (some) people feel that they have to do things like the infamous "planetouched marathon" to legally keep the race they want, burning X scenarios as quickly as possible just to make a deadline.
So, I pose the question: Is it necessary to remove old races to make room for new ones? In my experience, there is a certain (large?) subset of players who want to play the exotic races, but that is based on the player, not the number of exotic races available. Giving those players more choices doesn't necessarily make them take up more space at your table or increase the Star Wars Cantina feel.
Either way, I would love if the process for removing races didn't encourage players to burn through scenarios quickly just to get a race, whether it's an announced deadline like aasimar/tiefling or an assumed one like PaizonCon.
You keep seeing this as a problem where I see it as a potential boon.
A bunch of people get together (who might not normally have) to marathon some low level mods in order to grandfather in a character concept they likely wanted to play but hadn't gotten around to yet. Marathoning mods can be exciting, fun and a refreshing change of pace from a standard PFS game. If the end result is a bunch of people got together and had fun playing PFS, then I submit this is actually a benefit to PFS, not a detriment.
Now it has been mentioned that this is bad because it does not (or should not) represent a typical PFS game. While it is true it is not a good representation, neither are BoneKeep, Emerald Spire, Quests, We Be Goblin, Assault on the Wound and a dozen other non-standard adventures. The only time such adventures become a problem for PFS is when people don't understand their non-standard nature. So the solution to this problem is the same, i.e. make sure everyone understands this is non-standard.
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*Raises a mug.* Here's to us, and those like us...I do. I am the GM. I come to PFS to play.Do people not have home campaigns? What makes these races interesting to the in PFS campaign?
Uh, yeah. I GM a home game AP and play in one as well. Both campaigns have been going for nearly two years. Number of characters I have played in that time for the one I play in? One.
So yes, I like to bring other concepts, builds and such to life through PFS.
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The non-humanoid but class dependent races like Wyrwood, Wyvaran, and Ghoran. They'd probably be abused heavily, but I find them interesting. I guess I'd be happy if they became regular race boons like the elemental geniekin.
Why are Changelings so popular? Flavor wise they just don't appeal to me (I don't like Hags and the baby-hag angle is off putting)and I don't see a lot of amazing mechanical reasons.
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You keep seeing this as a problem where I see it as a potential boon.This makes (some) people feel that they have to do things like the infamous "planetouched marathon" to legally keep the race they want, burning X scenarios as quickly as possible just to make a deadline.
Sure, as long as you only look at your own experience. I'm guessing you're not the one trying to schedule tables of those same scenarios later on, or having new players join those games and thinking that the "rush" method is what PFS is all about. But then, I was a coordinator before I was even a PFS GM, so I tend to think lodge-wide by default.
The only time such adventures become a problem for PFS is when people don't understand their non-standard nature. So the solution to this problem is the same, i.e. make sure everyone understands this is non-standard.
Alas, the players most interested in rushing through things, often don't spend as much time worrying about stuff like that. So it is an issue.
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You keep seeing this as a problem where I see it as a potential boon.This makes (some) people feel that they have to do things like the infamous "planetouched marathon" to legally keep the race they want, burning X scenarios as quickly as possible just to make a deadline.
Sure, as long as you only look at your own experience. I'm guessing you're not the one trying to schedule tables of those same scenarios later on, or having new players join those games and thinking that the "rush" method is what PFS is all about. But then, I was a coordinator before I was even a PFS GM, so I tend to think lodge-wide by default.
The only time such adventures become a problem for PFS is when people don't understand their non-standard nature. So the solution to this problem is the same, i.e. make sure everyone understands this is non-standard.Alas, the players most interested in rushing through things, often don't spend as much time worrying about stuff like that. So it is an issue.
I have been coordinating organized play in my area since Living Greyhawk. Sometimes I have shared the duties with others, sometimes not. So far I just haven't experienced the problems you have, so I am not 100% sure why you are having them. It appears you have some rogue GMs who don't want to coordinate with you and are not very good at organizing themselves. That is a problem, but not one preventing "rush" gaming would prevent. You would be curing a symptom rather than a disease. My only suggestion would be to try to work with them better and perhaps keep a more open mind as to what they want out of PFS. And as far as everything you personally organize, make it clear to everyone you organize for, what these events represent. Otherwise you are going to end up with a divided community, and that doesn't help anyone.
Having thought about it more I would like to have a large race added. Maybe only as a charity boon, but they are in shorter supply then the small/tiny races.
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Why are Changelings so popular? Flavor wise they just don't appeal to me (I don't like Hags and the baby-hag angle is off putting)and I don't see a lot of amazing mechanical reasons.
Let's see...
You grow up thinking you're normal and then when you hit puberty you find that everything you thought you knew was wrong. Now your body and your mind begin to betray you.
As you discover who you really are, you court the possibility of rejection from your family and friends, since you don't *really* belong to them after all.
You feel an inexorable pull towards an evil that is rooted in your very being...but you resist, holding true to your ideals, whether or not you still have the support of those around you.
No...can't fathom why that would appeal to me at all. :)
One thing that is very important to remember when you are thinking about changelings is that *by definition* they are the ones who resisted the call. They became the person they wanted to be, not the person they were destined to be by biology. That intrinsic integrity to the race is another large part of the appeal.
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I do. I am the GM. I come to PFS to play.Do people not have home campaigns? What makes these races interesting to the in PFS campaign?
Interesting. As the current GM for my home group I get to play LOTS of characters and builds, but I can understand the desire to PLAY your OWN character.
Uh, yeah. I GM a home game AP and play in one as well. Both campaigns have been going for nearly two years. Number of characters I have played in that time for the one I play in? One.
So yes, I like to bring other concepts, builds and such to life through PFS.
Cool, again I can get behind that.
Another vote for Kobolds. They have been working with the PF Society since season three, I would think some would be getting into the field.
oh, and again
The PFS backstory is definitely a selling point for me (not that anyone has to sell anything to me :)
You grow up thinking you're normal and then when you hit puberty you find that everything you thought you knew was wrong. Now your body and your mind begin to betray you.
One thing that is very important to remember when you are thinking about changelings is that *by definition* they are the ones who resisted the call. They became the person they wanted to be, not the person they were destined to be by biology. That intrinsic integrity to the race is another large part of the appeal.
Cool. I can get behind both of these detailed back-stories.
...I also would like to see the Changling. The mismatched eyes are so cool....
This not so much. Heterochromia exists in humans. One half of a character's eyes being blue while the other half is something else could exist in half-elves, half-orcs (no pun intended EDIT: Yes it was) and any of the core races. To me this is backstory or personal trait for a particular character. Not to make light of RL struggles, but the iconic shaman is a core race. I don't know what home-games restrictions exist, exploring other options include nine other core race options (8 if you drop the RL option :). Again these are excellent characters and I hope you get to build them & play them.
I am not trying to convince anyone that a race shouldn't be allowed. I am only trying to understand why folks think they should be in the PFS campaign.
Sorry for the derail, back to your wish lists :)
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As long as we are wishing.
I would like to see a PFS only race as well. Something not only unique to Pathfinder Society but caused by the Decemvirate or the Grand Lodge. Intentionally or not.
Perhaps...
- ...sitting on thousands of artifacts has caused some magical alteration in an existing race Ook!.
- ...this collection of magic power creates an attractive curiosity to a race from some other world.
- ...all those clerics performing prestige point resurrections got overwhelmed and in their exhaustion put something back together wrong.
- ...a faction head wanted to increase the faction's political power by increasing its numbers. Altering an existing humanoid she then trains all her clutches to said faction's goals.
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First let me pile on the Kobold and Goblin fan wagon.
Second, a nod toward Gripply & Catfolk.
Lastly let me dare to suggest PC Playable versions of the Gnoll & Minotaur. (I have ideas!)
Contributor
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Why are Changelings so popular? Flavor wise they just don't appeal to me (I don't like Hags and the baby-hag angle is off putting)and I don't see a lot of amazing mechanical reasons.Let's see...
You grow up thinking you're normal and then when you hit puberty you find that everything you thought you knew was wrong. Now your body and your mind begin to betray you.
As you discover who you really are, you court the possibility of rejection from your family and friends, since you don't *really* belong to them after all.
You feel an inexorable pull towards an evil that is rooted in your very being...but you resist, holding true to your ideals, whether or not you still have the support of those around you.
No...can't fathom why that would appeal to me at all. :)
** spoiler omitted **
One thing that is very important to remember when you are thinking about changelings is that *by definition* they are the ones who resisted the call. They became the person they wanted to be, not the person they were destined to be by biology. That intrinsic integrity to the race is another large part of the appeal.
This. <3
(Although, I don't necessarily think all changelings are post-call. Many are probably still struggling with it as they begin their adventures. ^_^)
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I have little patience for all these puns.Don't be so small minded.I want more short races! There are already so few of them that it would be nice to have more. :)So you're saying that they're in short supply?
*dodges tomatoes*
All these people are so short tempered. Makes me mad, sad, and vertically challenged.
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Perhaps part of the consideration should also be if there are miniatures available for the race. I think Wayangs would be more popular if people could find minis for them.
(Why won't Paizo sell me a Wayang mini?)
Not just minis. Try finding Wayang artwork for character inspiration.
I suppose I would like to see Kobolds, but I'm really fine with the way special races are already handled. There's already so many interesting race/class combinations I'll never have a chance to play them all.
*grumble grumble* I suppose I have until Gen Con to play my 7th level GM Credit Kitsune, my 6th level GM/Dragon's Demand credit Tengu, and a character concept for a Nagaji. Thankfully I've played my Wayang Witch through about half of Emerald Spire.
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First, I'm completely fine with traditionally evil races staying out of Society. Asmodites and the occasional Rovagug follower provide enough of a foil as they are. Now more adventures with or involving the Sewer Dragons or Nightsoil Marauders, that I can dig.
Second, I want cutebolds to stay on the interwebs and not in my table! *shakes fist* *yells at cloud*
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Why are Changelings so popular? Flavor wise they just don't appeal to me (I don't like Hags and the baby-hag angle is off putting)and I don't see a lot of amazing mechanical reasons.Let's see...
You grow up thinking you're normal and then when you hit puberty you find that everything you thought you knew was wrong. Now your body and your mind begin to betray you.
As you discover who you really are, you court the possibility of rejection from your family and friends, since you don't *really* belong to them after all.
You feel an inexorable pull towards an evil that is rooted in your very being...but you resist, holding true to your ideals, whether or not you still have the support of those around you.
No...can't fathom why that would appeal to me at all. :)
** spoiler omitted **
One thing that is very important to remember when you are thinking about changelings is that *by definition* they are the ones who resisted the call. They became the person they wanted to be, not the person they were destined to be by biology. That intrinsic integrity to the race is another large part of the appeal.
Very interesting point of view!
If you leave the common manga misconception of Kitsune on the side, they can fill this role too actually, at least to some point.In japanese folklore, the fox spirits are not really a good thing, more tricksters and a bit on the evil side often.
The Kitsune i play try never to show their Kitsune form, or only in grave danger when they need to byte someone.
They love to fool people even more with their realistic likeness.
There are definately several ways that can be played out.
To a certain degree, this is true for halflings and half-elves and half-orcs, in my eyes. You need to take some feats for it though or magical devices.
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As long as we are wishing.
I would like to see a PFS only race as well. Something not only unique to Pathfinder Society but caused by the Decemvirate or the Grand Lodge. Intentionally or not.
In honor of James Jacobs and recent changes...And tied to the year of the Demon. Sarkonian living gods reborn.
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In honor of James Jacobs and recent changes...??
Sarkonian Living God's were
The jj comment is irony because he is not a fan of the class in question.
I'll put my two cents worth here on Kobolds. The idea of a physically fragile character trying to prove to herself that she is truly kin to a mighty dragon really appeals to me. Also, a character that has always lived with hundreds more like herself might have some rather interesting issues dealing with a complete lack of any of her species around.
I suppose I just like the idea of a traveling kobold because it really seems to represent the struggle that we all have with feeling like we fit in somewhere.
...So. That's my overly sentimental answer to your question.
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Unfortunately, with the publication of each intelligent race in the bestiaries, it become less reasonable to have a human-centric campaign. The world that is being described to us fights against that world view. I didn't like having Aasimars and Tieflings around until I accepted how active and well developed the planar beings are in the campaign materials. Now, I just see their presence as part of the eternal struggle of the world we play in.
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I want Aasimar back! I made a wonderful one, but didn't play it before the axe!
As for 'new' races, Gripoli would be fun. Cat folk. Rat folk. Dragonborn.
And as was brought up by our local game today... Mike why aren't you milking the racial boon cash cow dry. For 10 dollars you can download a boon sheet to play whatever race you want. Attach it to the website so only people who actually pay for them can get credit for runs. Boom you're rich(er).