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On the TV show, he appears to be neither, but a garden variety modern human who became immortal only 4000 years ago (post-Cro-Magnon), as a result of exposure to energy from a meteorite shower.
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On the TV show, he appears to be neither, but a garden variety modern human who became immortal only 4000 years ago (post-Cro-Magnon), as a result of exposure to energy from a meteorite shower.
Actually, the immortality seems to have more to do with 'soul sucking' Hawkman & Hawkgirl when he kills them each time they re-incarnate. The meteor shower was just the triggering event which began the process.
Which kinda begs the question... why DIDN'T they ever try killing themselves? Hawkgirl suggested it in one episode (of Flash) and Hawkman was dismissive... but if Savage's immortality is tied to killing them, then they should have been able to kill him off by just committing suicide a few times... and then have been free to re-incarnate and live on without him.
Speaking of making sense...have they discussed the math on the previous lifetimes, and what that might suggest about souls other than the Hawks'?
This whole mess started 4000 years ago, and Carter says they've been reincarnated 206 times. That averages 19.4 years per lifetime. So, have they been killed as small children -- a lot -- before remembering their past lives?
Or is he counting the reincarnations as just the period of time between "waking up" -- presumably as adults, at least most of the time -- and being killed? If that's the case, it's not necessary they ever have died as children, because their short (average 19 years) "lives" don't begin until adulthood.
But if that's the case, they'd have to be hopping into adult bodies at least part of the time, presumably displacing other souls in the process.
He could feel it in his bones.
All 206 bones in his body.
;-)
Or he just didn't recognize his son when the last time he looked at him he was a kid and now he was over 50.
You assume he kept the same name. I got the impression that he was hiding from Savage.
I'm curious how this show will go. Honestly, they need to have ANOTHER hook besides Hawk vs. Savage or it's going to get VERY dull VERY fast. I hope the next episode they do something that seriously screws with time and they have to spend the next 5 seasons trying to fix things or something... because a hunt for one guy and constantly failing is going to suck.
So... The captain knows Savage's origins in Egypt (?)... Why not go there earlier and kill him while he's a teenager or something?
sigh
This series will be filled to the brim with time-travel plot holes, won't it?
I hate time travel...
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I think they need to cull the cast and the writers need to rethink their approach to the story. Nine full time protagonists is way too many and Savage isn't compelling enough to make me care about their conflicts with him. It doesn't help that most of them are mediocre actors and have very little chemistry with each other.
I absolutely love the fact that they have a large ensemble cast. Its the primary draw of the show for me, and I disagree that they don't have chemistry.
So far, I think they are managing to juggle the 9 protagonists quite well... Though some of them are not as interesting as others (cough... Heat Wave... cough).
No... Seriously... Why is Heat Wave here? He isn't particularly skilled or clever. He's just a guy with a flame thrower! He brings nothing to the show that Captain Cold couldn't do better.
I wish they made battles more interesting, though... I'm already tired of seeing Firestorm flying and shooting generic flames at generic minions. :/. Same goes for Cap Cold, Heat Wave and, to a lesser extent, Atom.
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He can't contribute to something that doesn't exist.
That's debatable...
Isn't he cheap Ant Man?
Maybe Mr. Hawk will be in lots of flashbacks?
Or maybe they'll steal a younger version of him with time travel?
Or maybe they'll steal a newer version of him with time travel?
Or maybe they'll steal an older version of him with time travel?
Or maybe they'll freeze his character and force his actor to take acting lessons or go on a quest for a Circlet of Persuasion/Charisma +6?
Sadly, I think they got rid of the wrong Hawk... I really liked Carter MUCH more then Kendra. The whole 'new hero learning the ropes thing is very tired... I actually LIKED that Carter was around with full experience and full memories and powers.
For me, I would love to see them trim it a bit. Were it up to me, I'd ditch
White Canary
Heat Wave
Mrs. Hawk
I REALLY like Prof Stein, Capt. Cold, Rip Hunter, Atom and Carter... and I guesswe need another 'half' for Firestorm, though i'm really not liking this kid much.
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my favorite part of episode 2 was
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If we're speaking hypothetically, this is what I'd like to see.
Cisco joins the cast. He'll be missed on Flash but I think Earth2 Wells and Caitlin can cover the 'hang out in the base and do science stuff' angle well enough without him. It turns out Cisco is the real incarnation of Hawkguy and he's meant to be with Kendra. Hurray! This has the added benefit of Carter going away for good (minus flashbacks maybe).
Younger Firestorm goes home. He's a high school student right? He has homework to do or something. He can show up on occasion for special episodes when Firestorm action is appropriate. Stein remains a regular but stays on the ship and does science stuff.
Something happens so Rip is stuck on the ship. Maybe he's crippled. Maybe it's some kind of time travel silliness. Either way he spends the bulk of his time on the ship doing research and science stuff with Stein.
Heatwave dies. Sorry Heatwave we already have the 'criminal mastermind' and 'merciless thug' archetypes covered by Captain Cold and Canary. You're redundant.
That leaves Kendra, Canary, Atom, and Cold as the show's front line superheroes. Stein, Rip, and Cisco stay on the ship as their supporting cast. We've still got a pretty big ensemble cast but hopefully it'll make room for some better focused stories.
If we're speaking hypothetically, this is what I'd like to see.
Cisco joins the cast. He'll be missed on Flash but I think Earth2 Wells and Caitlin can cover the 'hang out in the base and do science stuff' angle well enough without him. It turns Cisco is the real incarnation of Hawkguy and he's meant to be with Kendra. Hurray! This has the added benefit of Carter going away for good (minus flashbacks maybe).
Younger Firestorm goes home. He's a high school student right? He has homework to do or something. He can show up on occasion for special episodes when Firestorm action is appropriate. Stein remains a regular but stays on the ship and does science stuff.
Something happens so Rip is stuck on the ship. Maybe he's crippled. Maybe it's some kind of time travel silliness. Either way he spends the bulk of his time on the ship doing research and science stuff with Stein.
Heatwave dies. Sorry Heatwave we already have the 'criminal mastermind' and 'merciless thug' archetypes covered by Captain Cold and Canary. You're redundant.
That leaves Kendra, Canary, Atom, and Cold as the show's front line superheroes. Stein, Rip, and Cisco stay on the ship as their supporting cast. We've still got a pretty big ensemble cast but hopefully it'll make room for some better focused stories.
can't get rid of Heatwave, killing him would break up the comedic duo of Captain Cold and Heatwave
So you want a show with nothing but white guys?
Of the cast presented so far... yeah.
There are a lot of interesting minorities and/or women in the DCU, but these aren't them.
And, point of order, Raymond Palmer, aka The Atom, predates Ted Kord, Tony Stark, and Hank Pym. Palmer shows up doing superhero stuff in October 1961, then Hank Pym is introduced doing weird exploring adventures in January of 1962. Tony comes along in 1963, and Ted in 1966.
It's true Atom was around longer... but the complaint is that he uses a battle suit that shoots laser blasts. Which... admittedly is pretty far from the comic Atom.
Still, I like Brandon Routh in the roll and his general... giddiness to being a superhero. So whatever his methods, I hope he sticks around.
The ice dude needs someone to talk to, usually that's the fire dude. The fire dude's job is to be the target of exposition. Also the reason he's not that bright; people are always explaining stuff to him.
Also, the ice dude is of mixed race, so it would be 4 1/2 white dudes. :-P
The ice dude needs someone to talk to, usually that's the fire dude. The fire dude's job is to be the target of exposition. Also the reason he's not that bright; people are always explaining stuff to him.
Also, the ice dude is of mixed race, so it would be 4 1/2 white dudes. :-P
I haven't noticed him talk to mick all that much really... he seems to converse with White Canary and new Firestorm more...
He seems to serve the purpose of just having another 'bad guy' to back up Cold's ambitions.... Like if there was only ONE bad guy wanting to do bad things... the hero types would stop him, but with that little bit of backup... that seems to make a difference..
Though Canary isn't all that 'good' either. It just doesn't seem that interesting of role to play.
HOPEFULLY they'll get beyond the 'I'm a bad guy... I like to burn stuff... Grrrrr' mentality and give him a little depth. Cold COULD have been a one note character too, but they've done awesome things with him!!
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Need Heatwave, without Heatwave Cold would spend the entire show sullen and snarky.
Heatwave is his friend, and a good friend at that. He knows Snart's background and his personality. He knows what's behind the snark and how to interpret it.
Captain Cold is a fairly complex character but Heatwave helps you recognize it. Heatwave is pretty simple as characters go, but he knows his partner and shed's insight on him that can otherwise be missed
So you want a show with nothing but white guys?
I think he wants a show with better characters and actors portraying them.
I'm fine with Sara, but Kendra is boring, Carter was an unlikable prick, Heat Wave is a one-note character, and Jackson is just awkward.
The only reason he's there is because otherwise they wouldn't have Firestorm's, well, firepower. And they really don't need it between Heat Wave (who is at least more amusing than Jackson) and Atom.
They may have been better off taking the kid playing Wally over on Flash and making him the new Firestorm instead. Same backstory and all, except without being West's kid (deadbeat junkie mom, thrillseeker, absent father). Would have been a lot more interesting, and a lot better acted.
And he'd probably be on board with jaunting through time and fighting bad guys rather than reluctantly coming along at best and then contributing NOTHING character-wise.
Jackson is literally just a young, strong body Stein can utilize for throwing fireballs. He brings no insight or interesting character bits to the table whatsoever.
Wow.
You do realize that the biggest issue with the New 52 Wally (the black one and the basis for the shows version) is his backstory, right?
I could not possibly care less about the New 52, or the comics in general for that matter in regards to the shows we're talking about.
I don't see a problem with his backstory whatsoever. He's a kid from a broken home with a need for speed.
This is a cliche, yes, but an infinitely more interesting one than "Injured Athlete whose scholarship was ruined #2840334".
I find it really interesting that all the folks harping on 'bad acting' keep identifying the source as the obvious minorities or women.
Especially since there not acting badly.
Don't try to pull the race card here, it's just silly. Blame the writers if you must for giving such bland material to the "obvious minorities and women".
Kendra has spent most of the series either whining or unconscious (so 5 episodes that I've seen, counting her debut in Flash/Arrow). Damsels in distress aren't interesting, and it makes no sense that Hunter picked THIS Kendra of all of them to be on his strike team (why not pick up the one a few years down the road, when she's unlocked her memories and fighting ability?)
Jackson has been given NOTHING to work with, and seems to struggle with how seriously he's supposed to be taking the material. His dialogue just sounds really stilted, and it doesn't help he's barely been given anything to help him stand out from his obvious cliche.
They're weak links in the ensemble.
Both have the potential to improve. I WANT to see Kendra take off and smack a motherf@*$er in the face with a taser mace, and it would be nice if Jackson became interesting in some way, shape, or form, but if we're talking about characters that can be cut RIGHT NOW, those two are it (assuming Carter isn't coming back, because screw that guy).
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(assuming Carter isn't coming back, because screw that guy).
I have no opinion on most of this conversation, but this last bit can't be said enough. Wow, I hated that guy so much, it was like flames, flames from the side of my face...
Kendra at least seems to be picking up some of the sass and spunk she had back in her introduction as a barista. Jackson, kind of boring, still. Everyone is kind of one-note, though. Stein, boring, full of himself, often overconfident and wrong. Ray, naïve and enthusiastic. Heat Wave, likes fighting and starting fires. Cold, always looking for the next angle.
Sara and Kendra benefit from being the least two-dimensional, really. Sara's got the benefit of a lot more character development on other shows, and Kendra's still finding her note, so she's at least not 'one-note' *yet.* (She may well become so, if her memories re-integrate and she becomes a fond of glowing eyed historical knowledge and supreme confidence and whatever, like some modern day magical negro trope. Hopefully they don't tap that well.)
At this point I think Carter is dead but the actor will be around for flashbacks. I am happy with this.
I like Kendra's character when she was on the Flash, but so far they have not used her well here. I would love a character that is exploring her past and taking to heart the advice that Cisco gave her, but so far there hasn't been much of it.
Jackson has potential, but so far he is drastically underused. It would be really cool if they get into the part where he wanted to go to college but couldn't, and now he literally mind melds with a professor. I like that they have not made him an idiot, as shown in the 1 scene where he actually got to do something (go fix the spaceship). I feel like they can really grow him into the link between the jocks (Captain Cold, Heatwave) and the nerds, if they let his character get some confidence. It could be a great character arc, if they give him enough screen time to actually do it.
Heatwave seems to exist only as a foil. I think he is necessary, but hope they actually do something with him eventually.
I think Sara has been awesome. Stein and Captain Cold steal the show. Palmer is fun.
That fixing the time ship thing was a huge missed opportunity. The scenes basically consisted of:
Rip: "You're a mechanic, right? Go fix it, chop chop."
Jackson: "Dude I work on cars, not stuff that won't be invented for HUNDREDS OF YEARS."
Rip: "I SAID CHOP CHOP."
*Cuts away for several minutes*
Jackson: "Okay I fixed it off screen."
Captain Cold/Heatwave: "Help us steal something."
Jackson: "Wait what why would I-"
Captain Cold/Heatwave: "Don't be a pussy, let's go."
Jackson: "Okay..."
The guy's a follower, is the main problem. A cohort. Useful skills, but little personality and ZERO agency.
You're obviously watching a different show because none of that reflects what'sbeen on the show.
Especially since there's only been five elisodes of the show and Kendra was on four episodes of Flash and one of Arrow.
That's the weird part...before she learned she was Hawkgirl, she was confident, strong-willed, and pretty cool. After, the combination of being thrown into an unfamiliar situation and being browbeaten by her abusive time-stalker boyfriend pretty much ruined that.
Seriously, what has she accomplished so far on Legends?