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*snip*
Perhaps his plan for the seventh movie was to focus on the rebuilding of the Jedi order, except now they wouldn't only sit down to negotiate trade disputes and watch political proceedings, they'd also use the Force to become actuaries...Yikes! Somebody woke up on the wrong side of Christmas.
Well, HNY anyway!
:D
I worked all night Xmas, and all night NYE. So, there wasn't much waking involved. :P
I just don't like or trust Lucas's stories post RotJ at all.
Happy New Year to you as well.
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I won't lie, it was nice to have the first Star Wars movie in ages that didn't have lightsabers falling out of every corner of every scene... something Lucas has long since given up on.
A New Hope: Three total sabers, one duel, one non-duel practical application, one training bit, one "turn it on and wave it around like a schmuck."
Empire Strikes Back: Two total sabers, one "real" duel, one non-duel utility use to get at Tauntan guts, one hacking open an AT-AT's underside, one illusory duel on Dagoba.
Return of the Jedi: Two total sabers, one sail barge fight, one hacking of a Speeder bike on Endor, one duel.
The Phantom Menace/Attack of the Clones/RotS: Sabers! SABERS EVERYWHERE! Kiddie-sized sabers! Double-bladed sabers! YODA GETS A SABER! AND YOU GET A SABER! AND YOU! AND YOU! ALL SABERS ALL THE TIME!
The Force Awakens: Two total sabers (one fairly crude), one of which is swung around willy-nilly for a variety of reasons including temper tantrums, the other of which is used inexpertly by one young protagonist and rather well by the other.
Rogue One: One saber. Used in one scene. And man oh man, is it an impressive scene.
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Thinking back on Vader in this movie. It is obvious that the Imperial High Command sees him as their easiest way to get to the Emperor's ear, as Krennic grovels for Vader to put in a good word. The military level personnel seem to just accept that Vader is a force to be reckoned with. I'm sure most of the Moffs and the Emperor's council see him closer to what he is, but probably view him as Palpatine's personal problem solver. Barring Tarkin, who from his novel knows he is Anakin but doesn't know enough about Jedism to understand the Sith connection, I doubt anybody else really sees the mentor / student dynamic. So what we have is an enigmatic force of destruction, who most important people see as a confidant of the Emperor, while also being the Emperor's personal killing hand.
Even with his couple of scenes and few additional references, it brings all the high command scenes in the original trilogy a new reference point. We understand a bit more how these admirals and moffs feel about Vader, why they treat him with fear (except for Tarkin because badass), and we've (finally) seen him in some melee combat (on film) to reinforce that fear. However brief his appearance was in the film, I think Rogue One helped redeem some of the ill will that Anakin earned in episodes 2 and 3.
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The Phantom Menace/Attack of the Clones/RotS: Sabers! SABERS EVERYWHERE! Kiddie-sized sabers! Double-bladed sabers! YODA GETS A SABER! AND YOU GET A SABER! AND YOU! AND YOU! ALL SABERS ALL THE TIME!
Being pedantic: TPM has only 3 sabers also... Qui-gon, Obi-wan and Maul. Sure, the other Jedi are on screen, but none of them are waving anything around. And I would argue the 3-way duel at the end of that movie is the best in the entire series!
What rumors of a Kenobi film?
Ewan McGregor is keen to do it and Lucasfilm seem open to the idea, so I think it will probably happen. There is a rumour though that Kenobi is "off-limits" until after Episode IX. Given his brief vocal appearance in Ep VII, it might be that we may hear more from him in VIII and IX.
Actually, they could just have him show up as a Force Ghost. If the adjusted ending to VI shows that the Jedi can choose which age to appear as after death, they could just have him choose to appear as a younger Obi-Wan.
In all honesty, the only real EU character I would absolutely LOVE to become canon is Revan. He was almost in an episode of Clone Wars, which would have been amazing.
I don't see any real reason why Disney don't just declare THE OLD REPUBLIC era canon. It might boost take-up for the MMORPG and might spur re-releases of the first two KotOR games. The chances of either a new TV show or movie exploring that era seem remote (there's a rumour that a new STAR WARS animated series, either after REBELS or on simultaneously, will instead target the post-Episode VI timeframe), so there's no real danger of a continuity clash.
I just don't like or trust Lucas's stories post RotJ at all.
Neither, apparently does Disney. They promptly threw is planned sequel trilogy directly into the trash.
And I would argue the 3-way duel at the end of that movie is the best in the entire series!
Ugh.
Agreement will not be forthcoming here.
I found it emotionally dead (gee, I wonder if the guy we've never heard of and who Obi-Wan never mentions ONCE in the years ahead is going to live? Oh, and let's kill off the bad guy right away, really make sure his impact is minimal, can't forget that!) and lacking in any sense of visceral character- ditto for that glowstick rave-dance at the end of RotS.
The saber scene in Rogue One wasn't terribly flashy in terms of choreography, and it was definitely one-sided, but it had more emotional and dramatic impact than.... really, any Star Wars action sequence since Empire.
The Phantom Menace/Attack of the Clones/RotS: Sabers! SABERS EVERYWHERE! Kiddie-sized sabers! Double-bladed sabers! YODA GETS A SABER! AND YOU GET A SABER! AND YOU! AND YOU! ALL SABERS ALL THE TIME!Being pedantic: TPM has only 3 sabers also... Qui-gon, Obi-wan and Maul. Sure, the other Jedi are on screen, but none of them are waving anything around. And I would argue the 3-way duel at the end of that movie is the best in the entire series!
Except for the gigantic plot holes in that scene, of which there are at least 3 that I can remember, having not seen the movie in many, many years.
1) Obi-wan gets cut off in that "air lock" system. Except... they used super speed to get away from droids in that very first fight. Why didn't he use it there? It seems like the perfect time to use it.
2) What the f~** are they fighting in? Is it some sort of generator/powerstation? If so, why were the Naboo worried about the Trade Federation? If you're capable of generating that much energy, you should be able to make a shield, fire giant lasers, etc. A couple droids on a ship would be nothing. They live on this lush, green world, so food isn't the issue and with that much energy capacity, everything should be solvable.
3) Why didn't Darth Maul cut Obi-wan in half when he flipped over him with no lightsaber? He hangs over him for a good half-second doing a flip, completely vulnerable to one easy swing of a lightsaber. In fact, 2 movies later, Obi-wan does this exact thing to Anakin when he tries the same maneuver.
The only good thing about that fight was the song. It's possible to listen to the song without watching that fight.
It's been reported that George Lucas did really like this movie. Unlike The Force Awakens which he was less enthusiastic about.I heard Lucas was pissy because they tossed his new trilogy idea in the trash.
I've actually heard they ONLY SAID that so the fans that hated Lucas's stuff would go and see the movie.
In fact, I've heard that there was a LOT of shadows and illusion in that regards...and overall Disney wanted Lucas to remain mum about it or say things like he did purely to encourage those who had an instilled hate of Lucas to go.
In truth, I've heard that TFA was actually HEAVILY reliant on Lucas's storyline (which in itself explains some things, like having StarKiller base...yet another deathstar/droid controls ship/trench run type thing again...as Lucas believes in a circular cycle). However, Disney rewrote several areas (for example, Lucas's storyline had it with kids and young teens, Disney increased the ages dramatically. However, if you will, imagine Finn as a young recruit still being instilled with training to be the perfect soldier...Rey as a teen girl having only missed her parents a few years...overall, I think Disney made the right call as them being older works out better).
The main beef Lucas had was actually them moving the age ranges for the kids to be older. Of interesting note...Lucas's storyline was about the KIDS of the OT heroes...and as it is stated...Kids.
Also, after seeing TFA...Lucas simply stated he liked it. He didn't expound on that (and Disney really didn't want him to...they didn't want fans making ANY connection between Lucas and the ST...no matter how strongly that connection might be).
I think there are some differences due to rewrites, but I think if we saw Lucas's storyline of what he handed Disney...we'd see some very strong similarities in the story and plot between his ideas and what Disney rewrote of it into TFA.
PS: He and Kathleen Kennedy are actually still very close in many ways and still have a great respect for each other. Anything she's doing is NOT out of spite for Lucas...but she probably DOES have a good grasp of the current climate of the public. Hence, while she would respect Lucas's ideas, there's no way in heck she'd let many in the fandom know that considering that their response if they knew how closely TFA hewed to Lucas's treatment would be immediate and outright rejection without having even seen it. Hence, the need to distance themselves from Lucas in the media, even while they had meals and other things with him in their normal lives (and even invited him to the Rogue One set and such afterwards).
I shudder to think what it might have been.It's been reported that George Lucas did really like this movie. Unlike The Force Awakens which he was less enthusiastic about.I heard Lucas was pissy because they tossed his new trilogy idea in the trash.His ideas were generally good. His writing, not so much.
I, as well as a great many others, were saddened when Disney scrapped the entire EU. However, they DID bring back Thrawn, as well as some ideas. I for one wish they would bring back Mara Jade in some fashion.
Given that he managed to make Jedi seem boring, I'm not sure I can agree with you.
Perhaps his plan for the seventh movie was to focus on the rebuilding of the Jedi order, except now they wouldn't only sit down to negotiate trade disputes and watch political proceedings, they'd also use the Force to become actuaries...
His seventh movie was on the children of the heroes of the OT and also dealt with his cyclic operatic idea where the same things that occur in the PT happen in the OT and also happen in the ST (for example, the drone control ship and the Death star parallel of the first films, the land battles of Hoth and Geonosis and the arm sliced off in the second films, and the turning of a character from good to evil, and evil to good in the third).
At least from what I've gathered from rumors of it.
I shudder to think what it might have been.It's been reported that George Lucas did really like this movie. Unlike The Force Awakens which he was less enthusiastic about.I heard Lucas was pissy because they tossed his new trilogy idea in the trash.His ideas were generally good. His writing, not so much.
I, as well as a great many others, were saddened when Disney scrapped the entire EU. However, they DID bring back Thrawn, as well as some ideas. I for one wish they would bring back Mara Jade in some fashion.
Given that he managed to make Jedi seem boring, I'm not sure I can agree with you.
Perhaps his plan for the seventh movie was to focus on the rebuilding of the Jedi order, except now they wouldn't only sit down to negotiate trade disputes and watch political proceedings, they'd also use the Force to become actuaries...
His seventh movie was on the children of the heroes of the OT and also dealt with his cyclic operatic idea where the same things that occur in the PT happen in the OT and also happen in the ST (for example, the drone control ship and the Death star parallel of the first films, the land battles of Hoth and Geonosis and the arm sliced off in the second films, and the turning of a character from good to evil, and evil to good in the third).
At least from what I've gathered from rumors of it.
I can see some very broad overall similarities, and as such the cyclical explanation is what worries me about Lucas. I wouldn't want to see a grating comic relief character or immaculate conception by magic bacteria again. I definitely wouldn't want to see another stalker style romance or another rage fueled Jedi massacre followed by an amazingly foolish wedding. I really don't want to see another weak deus ex machina used to sweep away characters like so many dead leaves in order to set up the conditions of an already existing chronologically later story.
I can see some very broad overall similarities, and as such the cyclical explanation is what worries me about Lucas. I wouldn't want to see a grating comic relief character or immaculate conception by magic bacteria again. I definitely wouldn't want to see another stalker style romance or another rage fueled Jedi massacre followed by an amazingly foolish wedding. I really don't want to see another weak deus ex machina used to sweep away characters like so many dead leaves in order to set up the conditions of an already existing chronologically later story.I shudder to think what it might have been.It's been reported that George Lucas did really like this movie. Unlike The Force Awakens which he was less enthusiastic about.I heard Lucas was pissy because they tossed his new trilogy idea in the trash.His ideas were generally good. His writing, not so much.
I, as well as a great many others, were saddened when Disney scrapped the entire EU. However, they DID bring back Thrawn, as well as some ideas. I for one wish they would bring back Mara Jade in some fashion.
Given that he managed to make Jedi seem boring, I'm not sure I can agree with you.
Perhaps his plan for the seventh movie was to focus on the rebuilding of the Jedi order, except now they wouldn't only sit down to negotiate trade disputes and watch political proceedings, they'd also use the Force to become actuaries...
His seventh movie was on the children of the heroes of the OT and also dealt with his cyclic operatic idea where the same things that occur in the PT happen in the OT and also happen in the ST (for example, the drone control ship and the Death star parallel of the first films, the land battles of Hoth and Geonosis and the arm sliced off in the second films, and the turning of a character from good to evil, and evil to good in the third).
At least from what I've gathered from rumors of it.
You probably don't have to worry about that too much, even if they are using Lucas's storyline.
For the OT, Lucas had a VERY GOOD editor, his wife (ex-wife afterwards). She was probably the reason why the original Star Wars was so good, she did a LOT of cutting and editing about to ensure a good movie. Lucas didn't have total control. She continued to do the edits on the rest of the OT, but in addition, Lucas also had other writers to help out on ESB and RotJ.
This time around, Lucas may have done the treatments, but it's going to be someone else writing the scripts, and even with Kennedy on board, it's been Abrahms who is producing this next one, and thus far the ST has been with his oversight.
This means that they are probably using Lucas's story, but they are rewriting things that they may not like or find too absurd (for example, if Lucas tried to use a midichlorian explanation today, Abrahms and Kennedy probably would overrule that and not include it, same as they did with the ages of the heroes that Lucas had in mind. They made the characters older and more mature which fits the storyline better). Much like Lucas had other writers to correct his course in the OT, as well as a dang good editor to cut and paste as needed, he has that even more fold for the ST.
I'd say they are probably going to keep the best of Lucas's story ideas, but cut the things that go wonkers when he has total control (aka...the OT vs. the PT). Unlike the PT and even the OT where he was involved the entire way, he only submitted the story treatments, he has no more input after that (well, mostly, he suggested some things to RO and they did major reshoots after that, the director basically worships Lucas...so no idea how much Lucas's visit did or did not influence the reshoots. On the otherhand, I don't see anything like that happening with the ST yet). It's up to them to tailor them to the modern audiences (and the SW lines, even when it was the OT before RotJ was out was always being tailored to a degree). In that light, except for the actual story's, Disney and co will tailor and modify it so that it sells the best that they figure it can to modern day audiences.
Of course, if you hated how they did much of the storyline of TFA, it may be that one doesn't feel they are cutting and changing enough. On the otherhand, it seems it's the bestselling SW to date, so it could be that they are going to be fine and doing a great job.
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It's been reported that George Lucas did really like this movie. Unlike The Force Awakens which he was less enthusiastic about.I heard Lucas was pissy because they tossed his new trilogy idea in the trash.I've actually heard they ONLY SAID that so the fans that hated Lucas's stuff would go and see the movie.
In fact, I've heard that there was a LOT of shadows and illusion in that regards...and overall Disney wanted Lucas to remain mum about it or say things like he did purely to encourage those who had an instilled hate of Lucas to go.
In truth, I've heard that TFA was actually HEAVILY reliant on Lucas's storyline
Except everything Lucas has said in the past 18 months or so contradicts this. In fact, when talking about, he sounds annoyed and pissed off.
I'm going to believe George Lucas (especially when he sounds sincere in his annoyance with Disney, since he called them "white slavers") more than random internet rumors.
It's been reported that George Lucas did really like this movie. Unlike The Force Awakens which he was less enthusiastic about.I heard Lucas was pissy because they tossed his new trilogy idea in the trash.I've actually heard they ONLY SAID that so the fans that hated Lucas's stuff would go and see the movie.
In fact, I've heard that there was a LOT of shadows and illusion in that regards...and overall Disney wanted Lucas to remain mum about it or say things like he did purely to encourage those who had an instilled hate of Lucas to go.
In truth, I've heard that TFA was actually HEAVILY reliant on Lucas's storyline
Except everything Lucas has said in the past 18 months or so contradicts this. In fact, when talking about, he sounds annoyed and pissed off.
I'm going to believe George Lucas (especially when he sounds sincere in his annoyance with Disney, since he called them "white slavers") more than random internet rumors.
You should hear what they've actually said. The media is portraying one thing, but if you actually LOOK in the corners you'll see that Abrahms words will actually back up what I've stated. Same with the director of Rogue One.
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IIRC there are direct quotes from Lucas indicating his...dislike of the new movies.
Personally I think the underlying story and setting for the prequels was fine. It was just executed very poorly, with bad direction to actors, bad dialog, and cheesy comic relief. The awesomeness that was Clone Wars series shows that the overall plot could have worked with better directors and scripting.
You should hear what they've actually said. The media is portraying one thing, but if you actually LOOK in the corners you'll see that Abrahms words will actually back up what I've stated. Same with the director of Rogue One.It's been reported that George Lucas did really like this movie. Unlike The Force Awakens which he was less enthusiastic about.I heard Lucas was pissy because they tossed his new trilogy idea in the trash.I've actually heard they ONLY SAID that so the fans that hated Lucas's stuff would go and see the movie.
In fact, I've heard that there was a LOT of shadows and illusion in that regards...and overall Disney wanted Lucas to remain mum about it or say things like he did purely to encourage those who had an instilled hate of Lucas to go.
In truth, I've heard that TFA was actually HEAVILY reliant on Lucas's storyline
Except everything Lucas has said in the past 18 months or so contradicts this. In fact, when talking about, he sounds annoyed and pissed off.
I'm going to believe George Lucas (especially when he sounds sincere in his annoyance with Disney, since he called them "white slavers") more than random internet rumors.
Every Google search I do on the topic is nothing but story after story about how Lucas' ideas were thrown out.
I would agree that they did end up using Lucas' ideas, because they basically copied ANH. They didn't use his ideas for an Episode 7, because they used his ideas for Episode 4.
Do you have any verifiable sources?
As I said, that's the illusion you're supposed to believe.
They didn't WANT Lucas to appear involved in any way because of how much HATE people had for him (despite him creating the entire thing to begin with, ironically). Even if they use his stories, it was poison to their brand.
However, when you realize that Kennedy has been a LONG time associate of Lucas, and Abrahms basically worships the ground he walks on (though he didn't care for the prequels as much, he adores the OT)...and you see a few of the comments that came out accidentally (such as when Abrahms stated they actually DID use Lucas's story, but changed a few things, which is where the changes in the characters ages came out), or when Lucas actually said he saw it, but had a simple...he liked it (which isn't noted as much by many...and soon after Disney had him trying to distance himself from the series again)...you start to see the real picture.
If there are problems with TFA, I wouldn't say it's because of Abrahms, but it might be due to adhering closer to the story treatment that Lucas presented than many would think.
Anyways, people can think what they want. In time it will probably come out just how close to Lucas's original treatments TFA came, as well as the rest of the trilogy.
What should prove interesting, is now that Carrie Fisher has passed, what they do with that particular story portion. With Han out of the picture, it should be interesting to see how they rewrite it.
THAT at least will probably be completely original, as that will most likely be the part that differs most strongly from Lucas's donation.
Anyways, I know you seem to be having problems with finding anything about the story treatments, but the actual storylines (brief ideas really) have had brief mentions and appearances.
Here's ONE of them to start you on your way....
Kasdan never saw Lucas's story treatments, Mark Hammill had a hint
PS: I should make it abundantly clear, these were story TREATMENTS, nothing close to full scripts. I don't think Lucas ever submitted a full on script to Disney. It is thought that the portions that deviate the most from ANH and Lucas's treatments were actually started by Arndt when he was on, and then Kasdan and Abrahms further expounded some of the elements Arndt was unwilling to (such as separating the two droids, R2's getting the Jedi temple plans originally from ANH when he was plugged into the Death Star Computer, and telling R2 about having a part of the map which woke R2 up in TFA and such stuff). The basic storyline about the kids of the Skywalker line and blowing up Death Star III...you probably shouldn't be blaming Abrahms as much for that...though I think he's willing to take the blame instead of getting Lucas (as I said, even if they use his stuff, they see fans approach to him as poison right now...so they would NOT admit or even come close to showing it) anywhere close to being seen as being involved.
(Kasdan and Abrahms also brought a bigger focus on the older characters from the OT rather than having them more in the background and having the new characters take more limelight as the treatments and original writings were going to be doing, if I recall right. Also, from what I understand, the names of two characters were changed to Rey and Finn [I'd have to look it up again, but I think someone mentioned their original names were Kira and Sam?], and they changed them from both being white).
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In the meantime.
I think they are ignoring all that acid blood flying all over the place.
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Are tinfoil hats now a requirement in this thread?
As I said, that's the illusion you're supposed to believe.
They didn't WANT Lucas to appear involved in any way because of how much HATE people had for him (despite him creating the entire thing to begin with, ironically). Even if they use his stories, it was poison to their brand.
It wasn't poison, since the prequels have actually seen a resurgence in affection. In the past 2 years there's actually been a significant increase in fan appreciation of the new trilogy with sites like this one going up, claiming George Lucas is a genius. In fact, if one were really a conspiracy theorist, one one surmise that Disney started paying millenial bloggers to talk up the prequels in an effort to make more money off their investment. I mean, owning the prequels is no good if people aren't going to buy anniversary edition dvd's.
There are roughly 2 generations of kids now that grew up liking the prequels more than the OT. Throwing them under the bus doesn't make business sense.
Your conspiracy theory is garbage.
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I have pointed this out before, the Ghost clearly makes it out of the Battle of Scarif.
Which could very well mean Star Wars Rebels may continue past the events of A New Hope.
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This strikes me as callous vandals tarnishing masterful engineering, but I am leaving this here for my traitorous friend Freehold.
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I was just glad to see Y-Wings being presented as effective for a change... I've always loved them.
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And I would argue the 3-way duel at the end of that movie is the best in the entire series!Ugh.
Agreement will not be forthcoming here.
I found it emotionally dead (gee, I wonder if the guy we've never heard of and who Obi-Wan never mentions ONCE in the years ahead is going to live? Oh, and let's kill off the bad guy right away, really make sure his impact is minimal, can't forget that!) and lacking in any sense of visceral character- ditto for that glowstick rave-dance at the end of RotS.
The saber scene in Rogue One wasn't terribly flashy in terms of choreography, and it was definitely one-sided, but it had more emotional and dramatic impact than.... really, any Star Wars action sequence since Empire.
I really appreciate the fight scene at the end of PM. It's a micro view of the differences in philosophy between Sith and Jedi, and also a micro view of acceptance(Qui Gon) vs striving (Obi Wan). I found the entire fight scene to be very "mystical" if that's the right term.
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I was just glad to see Y-Wings being presented as effective for a change... I've always loved them.
here, if nowhere else, we agree.
What rumors of a Kenobi film?Ewan McGregor is keen to do it and Lucasfilm seem open to the idea, so I think it will probably happen. There is a rumour though that Kenobi is "off-limits" until after Episode IX. Given his brief vocal appearance in Ep VII, it might be that we may hear more from him in VIII and IX.
Actually, they could just have him show up as a Force Ghost. If the adjusted ending to VI shows that the Jedi can choose which age to appear as after death, they could just have him choose to appear as a younger Obi-Wan.
In all honesty, the only real EU character I would absolutely LOVE to become canon is Revan. He was almost in an episode of Clone Wars, which would have been amazing.I don't see any real reason why Disney don't just declare THE OLD REPUBLIC era canon. It might boost take-up for the MMORPG and might spur re-releases of the first two KotOR games. The chances of either a new TV show or movie exploring that era seem remote (there's a rumour that a new STAR WARS animated series, either after REBELS or on simultaneously, will instead target the post-Episode VI timeframe), so there's no real danger of a continuity clash.
being technical, they did - the hammerhead that showed up was from kotor originally, iirc.
...
I really appreciate the fight scene at the end of PM. It's a micro view of the differences in philosophy between Sith and Jedi, and also a micro view of acceptance(Qui Gon) vs striving (Obi Wan). I found the entire fight scene to be very "mystical" if that's the right term.
So you didn't feel it was like this.
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So you didn't feel it was like this....
I really appreciate the fight scene at the end of PM. It's a micro view of the differences in philosophy between Sith and Jedi, and also a micro view of acceptance(Qui Gon) vs striving (Obi Wan). I found the entire fight scene to be very "mystical" if that's the right term.
/shrug I'm not the guy that will watch a movie and take apart an obviously choreographed fight scene. I'm the guy that tries his best to see what the movie (Writer/Director/whatever) is intending me to see.
It's my belief that the fight scene intends us to see/understand 1) The difference between Obi Wan and Qui Gon's approach and 2) The Sith vs Jedi philosophy.
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the hammerhead that showed up was from kotor originally, iirc.
The player actually starts the game on a Hammerhead Cruiser, the game's tutorial level takes place on it.
Here we see one that has clearly had its Wheaties for breakfast in action.
@Baron I was diving pretty deep into a Wiki this morning looking for info on Tarkin and I came across COMPNOR as an organization (and I guess a philosophy?) Is that Canon now with Rogue One/Rebels canonizing the ISB?
(Forgive me, I haven't read the Tarkin novel...its on my list.)
the hammerhead that showed up was from kotor originally, iirc.The player actually starts the game on a Hammerhead Cruiser, the game's tutorial level takes place on it.
I thought so!!!
This strikes me as callous vandals tarnishing masterful engineering, but I am leaving this here for mytraitorousfriend Freehold.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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IIRC there are direct quotes from Lucas indicating his...dislike of the new movies.
Personally I think the underlying story and setting for the prequels was fine. It was just executed very poorly, with bad direction to actors, bad dialog, and cheesy comic relief. The awesomeness that was Clone Wars series shows that the overall plot could have worked with better directors and scripting.
Except for the giant tangent in Ep1 on Tattoine. They would have been better off making Anakin already a young padawan (14-15 - make him hitting on the queen not weird) and had 2 Jedi sent to Naboo in the opening scene. (Qui Gon & Anakin's master)
Then they could have done something that Hollywood does well consistently - a buddy relationship between Obi Won & Anakin. (start out disliking/rivalry - grow to be friends) Then have both of their masters killed near the end, and Obi Won take him on as his apprentice. Would also explain his insubordination later.
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@Baron I was diving pretty deep into a Wiki this morning looking for info on Tarkin and I came across COMPNOR as an organization (and I guess a philosophy?) Is that Canon now with Rogue One/Rebels canonizing the ISB?
(Forgive me, I haven't read the Tarkin novel...its on my list.)
"We rule through might and fear - fear of the chaos that would ensue should the Imperial government falter. Who better than the most educated, well-trained, highly civilized elite to lead the lesser beings who know nothing about maintaining culture and organization?"
- Imperial Advisor Ars Dangor
The Commission for the Preservation of the New Order is the Galaxy wide organization and the sanctioned political tool of The Galactic Empire dedicated to upholding the ideals of The Emperor's New Order.
It does appear in Tarkin and Catalyst. It is first mentioned by name in West End Games' Imperial Sourcebook (1989), although a Galaxy wide Imperial Political body was alluded to as early as the original radio dramas (see Lord Tion).
The ISB (though not COMPNOR as a whole) actually has been Canon since The Clone Wars series, as then Admiral Wullf Yularen would later become a Deputy Director of the ISB by the events of A New Hope.
A real world analoge would be the Third Reich's Nazi party or the Commumist Party of China.
I can address this further if you like, as I actually had a hand in writing about COMPNOR during the West End Games era.
:)
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They didn't WANT Lucas to appear involved in any way because of how much HATE people had for him (despite him creating the entire thing to begin with, ironically). Even if they use his stories, it was poison to their brand.
I think HATE for Lucas is a bit much... I mean, who really has that kind of extra time and emotional energy to hate the guy (internet blowhards don't really count)? As many issues as the prequels had -- I liked them, but I know they aren't perfect -- if someone grew to HATE Lucas because of them, that means they probably LOVED the original stuff (a bit too much) and would go see anything Star Wars related, whether Lucas was involved or not.
I just don't see anyone in a Disney/Lucasfilm boardroom actually having this kind of discussion. He's not a Hollywood pariah like Mel Gibson. Lucas isn't poison to the brand outside of a few fringe cases. I'd argue that Abrams probably pissed off more sci-fi geeks with Star Trek: Into Darkness than anything Lucas did with Star Wars... still, we flocked to TFA in droves!
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Except for the gigantic plot holes in that scene, of which there are at least 3 that I can remember, having not seen the movie in many, many years.
1) Obi-wan gets cut off in that "air lock" system. Except... they used super speed to get away from droids in that very first fight. Why didn't he use it there? It seems like the perfect time to use it.
I think a simple explanation is fatigue... he just had to force leap up a couple levels -- this after intensely fighting Maul for a couple minutes. In game terms, he was low on "Force Power" or maybe Force Sprint was on cooldown. Doesn't seem like a big plot hole.
2) What the f@+@ are they fighting in? Is it some sort of generator/powerstation? If so, why were the Naboo worried about the Trade Federation? If you're capable of generating that much energy, you should be able to make a shield, fire giant lasers, etc. A couple droids on a ship would be nothing. They live on this lush, green world, so food isn't the issue and with that much energy capacity, everything should be solvable.
Well, I loved the setting because it evokes such an iconic Star Wars feel -- from the OT movies to games like Dark Forces, there's all kinds of chambers, devices and things that are massive in scale and of not-so-clear function. This is a space opera with laser swords and space magic in the distant future (past)... you might be applying too much logic here.
3) Why didn't Darth Maul cut Obi-wan in half when he flipped over him with no lightsaber? He hangs over him for a good half-second doing a flip, completely vulnerable to one easy swing of a lightsaber. In fact, 2 movies later, Obi-wan does this exact thing to Anakin when he tries the same maneuver.
Watch any boxing/UFC/fencing/etc fight and ask the same thing... "why didn't he just punch him in the face right there? he was wide open!" Perhaps he missed a cue, was looking for another opening and reacted late, Obi-wan had an effective feint, was off-balance, blinked at the wrong time, or a hundred other split-second reaction decisions that could have been right or wrong. You see it in sports all the time... its easy to armchair quarterback.
Obi-wan is clearly the better fighter (obviously, he wins in the end). Maul made a couple of poor decisions or missed a couple opportunities. Sometimes that's all the difference. You could argue the same on Obi-wan vs Anakin. Anakin pulls the flip move and Obi-wan was ready... he'd seen it (done it) before.
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All the flaws I point out with the fight in TPM are real and observable.
All apologies for those flaws are pure speculation.
This is why you can never trust Disney.
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Finally saw Plinket's take on the two new Star Wars. I kinda disagree with him on Rogue One... he's not wrong, but it was enjoyable anyways. It's not a strong movie and really can only exist as part of the Star Wars universe... but seeing as it's the 8th movie in the franchise (plus several TV shows) I'm okay with that.
He had some good points about TFA. Like his concept that would have been really cool is if the FO and New Republic switched places. Instead of the FO building Starkiller base, the NR builds it as a deterrence against FO incursions. Then, Leia being the badass rebel she is, breaks with the NR. Then all hell breaks loose when the FO takes it over.
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I finally got around to seeing this movie today. It was f!@&ing glorious.
We saw it last Friday (back when our toddler was off with Grandma contracting whatever infectious mess we're all saddled with - a parting gift from 2016!)... and yes, it is quite, quite awesome.
Indeed, I gotta admit: I liked it far more than Force Awakens. It's not that Force Awakens was bad, it's just that it had a lot of issues that Rogue One didn't. That said, I think it is a movie that would benefit from a Director's Cut, as there are clearly a few things that were intended to be important or explored, but weren't.
Most notably: Jyn carried around a kaibur crystal necklace around the entire movie. It's what got the attention of blind-dude in the first instance. It gets brought out as they're descending down to Scariff, with a quote about how "the hearts of the strongest stars are made of kaibur" or some such. To me at least, the degree of emphasis it got was way, way more than something of mere sentimental value, and there was some intention to have it be more significant in the events... but it wasn't. Maybe this was because they decided late in the day that a macguffin wasn't needed, maybe it's because having it in the story added too much run time for cinematic release... either way, I'm curious as to what the story would be like with it in.
Regarding the Force Awakens: It was good.
It wasn't great, but it was good, and profoundly better than the Prequels (though I did love the opening scene of Phantom Menace for the badass Jedi moment).
It had... a few problems that, for me, made it fall short both the OT and Rogue One, however:
- Who or what is the First Order? I'm aware that this whole cross-media craze is popular with marketing executives, but it has no place in a movie which is supposed to establish the plot for the sequels. Having an undefined villain is a bad idea.
- Who are the Resistance and who are they resisting? Without defining what the First Order is, or what is going on in the galaxy, the plight of the Resistance is hard to care about or for.
- Why is finding Luke Skywalker such a big deal? Seriously. Other than sentimental attachment by a handful of people, the act of finding him had no real impact on the plot of the movie. Indeed, Kylo Ren (and his superior, Snoke) was willing to spend resources and risk exposure (which happened) to find Luke. This suggests that, somehow, finding Luke was so massively important that they'd risk their grand plan to destroy the New Republic to do so. But it's never explained why.
- On that topic... who is Snoke? Supreme Commander of the First Order? Well, we don't know what that is, so that tells us nothing.
- What was the superweapon for? Blowing up some planets? Well, the death stars did that pretty well already, and they're a fraction the size (and thus cost). But that aside, what is the agenda of the First Order? We don't know, so the point of building a planet-weapon is unknown.
- What the hell is up with the superweapon? Seriously. The death star was just a really big gun - not anything new except in scale. Starkiller Base was a planet (which indicates it had a core?) which got turned into a superweapon (somehow) by the First Order (whoever they are) in complete secret (somehow), that eats suns (a first as far as I'm aware) to fire a beam of energy that is faster and slower than light (simultaneously!), that can pinpoint planets in another solar system (somehow), and then split the beam up at the end (somehow) to hit multiple targets, and then have those explosions be instantly visible from another solar system light-years away (somehow). If you wanted a self-guided, hyperspace-capable, planet-busting torpedo launcher, just build one and forget the sun-eating-shenanigans. Inventing multiple "technologies" that have never been seen before (or anything like them) to go "Surprise! We have an even bigger superweapon than A New Hope or Return of the Jedi!" is a bit lame.
- What was the purpose of the monster scene with Han & company? Don't get me wrong, it was a fun scene and all, but given the movie was achingly lacking in exposition as to what is going on in the New Republic (i.e. context), I struggle to understand why goofy fun with tentacle monsters made the cut, when a Tarkin-esque interchange explaining who the First Order is and what their agenda is would have made it a lot easier to immerse the audience in the action and drama.
- As much as I love the original trilogy (I grew up on them, and they are the main reason I have a degree in space engineering), I can't say I agree with the decision to have the original cast have as heavy a presence as they do. They introduced the Poe Dameron character, yet he is incredibly underused - his role in the story being quickly subverted by Han Solo. I would have preferred a last hurrah and passing of the torch, which could have also served the story better than the aforementioned monster scene.