Silly caster think's she's a fighter


Advice

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BadBird wrote:

If you want a non-transformation option, a Witch with the Strength Patron gets Divine Favor & Power, Righteous Might, and eventually Giant Form. Divine Power and Fate's Favored is a pretty huge asset for melee, particularly since a Witch doesn't normally get Haste. Enlarge Person or Alter Self may not be the most thrilling polymorph spells, but they're still easy and cheap options.

I like this a lot, starts to come online much earlier too.

- Torger


Like I said there are so many options :) more or less comes down to what you wan really. It's not impractical to merge 80% of the material here into the same build. Have you thought about your prefered race? That may effect the decision as some things will work better with some races.


Torger Miltenberger wrote:
BadBird wrote:

If you want a non-transformation option, a Witch with the Strength Patron gets Divine Favor & Power, Righteous Might, and eventually Giant Form. Divine Power and Fate's Favored is a pretty huge asset for melee, particularly since a Witch doesn't normally get Haste. Enlarge Person or Alter Self may not be the most thrilling polymorph spells, but they're still easy and cheap options.

I like this a lot, starts to come online much earlier too.

- Torger

I would imagine that a witch would work well with a reach build. If the enemy stays at a distance, you pile on the hexes and spells, and when they decide they have to take you out they get to experience the AoO's from your reach weapon.


I still think Samsaran would be an amazing racial choice if you don't want to be a Scarred Witch Doctor. Again, it lets you pick extra spells from another class.


Blade Adept Arcanist is your best bet, I think. With Spellstrike, high DEX and all the accuracy/AC boosts from Arcana/Exploits, you should be pretty viable, if a bit fragile.


There was a feat that allows your spiritual weapon to make iterative attacks and what not. A different direction for this would be a caster that is a "blade master" that uses those spiritual weapons instead of a weapon actually in hand.

The feat is available early on and so is the spell. Everything could be "online" at level 3, and it only improves from there.

EDIT:

Spiritual Guardian, requires being a shaman. So I imagine not quite what you wanted sorry.


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Orcish Rapunzel - If you try the Scarred Witch Doctor I suggest taking the Prehensile Hair hex. This will let you use Constitution for spells, hex DCs, attack rolls, and damage. Buff up your Con as much as possible and you should do OK. Grappling might be surprisingly viable if you wear a Belt of Anaconda's Coils and take the Final Embrace feat (which grants the Grab ability). Hex Strike can also let you apply the Evil Eye to foes via unarmed strikes or even your hair with Feral Combat Training. If you've got +8 to grapple checks from Improved Grapple, the belt, and Grab and then give your foe -4 AC/CMD via Evil Eye that's a pretty big swing in CMB vs CMD. It seems counterintuitive to grapple with a low BAB PC, but I think it could work. Getting all the right feats in order without multiclassing would be the trick. At worst I guess you could use the reach of the hair to hang back and rely on AoOs for extra damage.

Mounted Sorcerer - A human Sylvan Sorcerer might be able to swing the feats for Mounted Combat. Whether or not you want to be a lady from Niger it wouldn't hurt your combat effectiveness to ride on a tiger. Since you can share True Strike your companion should be able to hit stuff or perform combat maneuvers pretty much as needed. I guess a big bad Wolf who trips enemies to give you +4 to hit against them might not be bad, especially if you took Paired Opportunists so that you both got a +4 bonus on any AoOs which might be triggered by the enemy falling down or standing up. If you feel pretty good about your HP and defenses Broken Wing Gambit with Paired Opportunists could be a nice combo too.

Flank Bonuses - If you'd rather flank with your companion than ride on it then the Outflank feat and Menacing weapons or amulets could be helpful. I'd consider staying adjacent and having the animal defend you with Bodyguard though. At worst you should be viable in melee against mooks, allowing you to save your big spells for big monsters.

The Exchange

My suggestion is an Arcanist with the occultist archetype. The Occultist Arcanist is a standard action summoner whose summons last 1 minute per level. This summon can obviously help in melee combat. If you focus on buffs, your DCs do not need to be high, and you can skimp a bit on Int, although the build probably shouldn't dump Cha. Using defensive spells like mirror image should help you not get killed. The full realization of this build would of course be the transformation spell.

Silver Crusade

I'd like to add a comment about the Mounted Sorcerer option, should that appeal to the reader. There's a way to do this that only requires two feats (Boon Companion & Paired opportunists) yet is extremely effective. Seriously, this mounted combination is really powerful.

If your goal is to find the most flavorful way to be a single-classed arcane melee type, only you know what is most flavorful to you.

Probably the two most mechanically effective (aka optimized, aka powerful) approaches are the aforementioned Scarred Witch Doctor, and the above 'polearm pet' [will someone please come up with a better name for this approach?] mounted sorcerer suggestion. I can testify that both are highly effective in challenging situations.


I wonder if it would be possible to have a normal animal companion and then have a build where you could enlarge them and mount them as you saw fit.


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Thanks for all the options guys, it's been super helpful, I have a few build ideas I'm toying around with now. When I narrow it down a bit I'll post a preliminary build and see what people think.

Right now I'm going back and forth between a Transformation spell focused, orc bloodline, blood arcanist and a Scarred Witchdoctor with the strength patron.

Do feel free to keep throwing new options at me in the meantime if you think of any.

- Torger


Quote:
I wonder if it would be possible to have a normal animal companion and then have a build where you could enlarge them and mount them as you saw fit.

Animal Ally feat.

Boon companion feat.

I'd couple this with UMD and scrolls to get the Druid spells you need. I'm sure there are enough good Wizard spells to make it work, too.


Inlaa wrote:
Quote:
I wonder if it would be possible to have a normal animal companion and then have a build where you could enlarge them and mount them as you saw fit.

Animal Ally feat.

Boon companion feat.

I'd couple this with UMD and scrolls to get the Druid spells you need. I'm sure there are enough good Wizard spells to make it work, too.

To clarify I was meaning something more like a sylvan bloodline sorc that already had tr animal and then just changed its size to make it rideable. For example a wolf gets turned into a warg.


Well, not sure on that. But you could definitely ride the dog, wolf, or even the dire rat (with the right feat) as a small-sized character. Halfling wizard riding a wolf into battle is 100% legit with that stuff.


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I appreciate all the serious advise that should be engaged in (though I seriously cannot think of a way to top (half?) Orc Scarred Witch Doctor.
But why am I the only one thinking of this?

Anyway, would recommend getting a bite whichever you go with. Fill out attack options when not just polymorphing into a different creature.


Personally, I think you should be angling for archery. Gravity bow and that sort of thing is obvious, of course.

Beyond that, divine favor is a really useful spell that responds well to optimization. A ring of Spell Knowledge (Divine Favor) Costs 1500gp and lets you cast it as a 2nd level sorcerer spell. From there, Fate's Favored, and that trait that lets you increase caster level of a spell by one. At lvl 4, it's a +2 luck bonus, +3 once you level up to 5th.

The Exchange

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How about a Blade Adept Magus w/ a longsword? With 25 points, you have enough stat points to make it work, such as the following starting stats (elf):

Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 18
Wis: 9
Cha: 7

This will give you a black blade, a nice boon. You can also select the very powerful Magus arcana, Arcane Accuracy, which gives you your Int bonus as an insight bonus (at least +4) to attack rolls. You can use spellstrike to do additional damage. Use mage armor continuously and wear a magical mithral buckler for some additional AC, as well as Mirror Image for a significant miss chance. Use Dimensional Slide for unprecedented mobility.

This is much better than the Blood Magus.


Think you're getting your Arcanist and Magus wires crossed there, Mystic Madness.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Blade Adept Arcanist is your best bet, I think. With Spellstrike, high DEX and all the accuracy/AC boosts from Arcana/Exploits, you should be pretty viable, if a bit fragile.

This.

I would be interested in seeing the average damage a Lvl 20 Blade Adept could manage.

Sczarni

Torger Miltenberger wrote:
Ipslore the Red wrote:
Here it is.

Awesome, thanks much. 6th level is pretty high, but then it probably should be. Definitely something to work towards.

- Torger

It's a pity though that the spell has a mere 1 round duration for a 6th level spell slot. Even extended, that's a hefty price for your slots. Worse if you happen to miss the attack.


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Ok so here's what I've come up with so far

The Concept:
1/2 Orc Scarred Witchdoctor with the strength Patron. This Character serves three functions

1) Buff up a for a round or two and head into melee with a Falchion. Preferred buffs involve an increase to size category and all the reach funness that comes with that.

2) Cast Summon spells, feel like I don't need to elaborate on why this is good.

3) Serve as a backup healer with the healing and major healing hexes.

and as a bonus 4) fire off utility spells as required and battlefield control spells that don't involve saves.

I've statted out to level 15 because I wanted to see if the character would still be viable come high level.

The Attribute Scores:
25 point buy, after level increases and enhancement items

STR: 26
DEX: 18
CON: 20
INT: 7
WIS: 10
CHA: 11

INT getting dumped over Charisma was a roleplaying decision. I'm well aware that dumping charisma would be the smarter play.

The Feats and Hexes:
Feats
Lvl 1 - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Lvl 3 - Augment Summoning
Lvl 5 - Arcane Strike
Lvl 7 - Power Attack
Lvl 9 - Quicken Spell
Lvl 11 - Ability Focus (Retribution Hex)
Lvl 13 - ????
Lvl 15 - ????

Hexes
Lvl 2 - Fortune
Lvl 4 - Soothsayer
Lvl 6 - Healing
Lvl 8 - Flight
Lvl 10 - Retribution
Lvl 12 - Major Healing
Lvl 14 - ????
I specificly avoided save hexes on the ground that I'm not paying all that much attention to my casting stat. It's ok, but not amazing.

The Gear:
This is quick and dirty gear purchasing. I know there's ways I could better spend my money I just wanted to get it done quickly. Also you may note there's one custom item, when my OP stated none. My DMs pretty cool with which bonus goes in which slot so I know that one will fly, but wholly unique items won't.

Falchion +5
Ring of Protection +5
Cloak of Minor Displacement
Garment of Resistance +5
Belt of Physical Perfection +4
Headband of Wisdom +4

The Buffs:
The following buffs have a long duration and are assumed to be on.
Mage Armor
False Life
Heroism
Fortune Hex

One Round of buffing, expending a 7th level and an 8th level spell slot
Giant Form I (Troll)
Quickened Divine Power

Second Round of Buffs
Retribution Hex if I suspect the opponent has a vulnerable will save
Scarshield for 7 points of natural armor if I suspect the opponent has a strong will save
Plus some other quickened buff I've yet to decide on.

The Combat Stats:
After one round of buffing my combat stats look like this

Initiative: +3
Hit points: 182 + 17 temporary

I get a reroll on the first d20 I roll and on a d20 of my choice in the second round.

Offense
Falchion, Power attacking and Arcane Striking
+30/+30/+25, 2d4+41, 18-20/x2

Defense
AC: 25
20% Miss Chance
Regeneration 5

Saves
Fort: +20
Ref: +16
Will: +19
I took the Sacred Tattoo alternate racial trait incase anyone is really doing the math

A second round of buffing adds either +7 to AC or forces the opponent a DC 23 Will save or suffer half the damage they deal.

The Problems:
My buff plan is only really doable once or twice per day so if I want to melee minor encounters I'll be relying on lesser buffs.

Without a round to apply scarshield my AC is pretty garbage.

Honestly I'm pretty happy with the results overall. There's still a few blank spots that I'd be interested to hear advice on and am still interested in any cool ideas that haven't been considered yet.

Once again, thanks to everyone for contributing.

- Torger


Mystic Madness wrote:

How about a Blade Adept Magus w/ a longsword? With 25 points, you have enough stat points to make it work, such as the following starting stats (elf):

Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 18
Wis: 9
Cha: 7

This will give you a black blade, a nice boon. You can also select the very powerful Magus arcana, Arcane Accuracy, which gives you your Int bonus as an insight bonus (at least +4) to attack rolls. You can use spellstrike to do additional damage. Use mage armor continuously and wear a magical mithral buckler for some additional AC, as well as Mirror Image for a significant miss chance. Use Dimensional Slide for unprecedented mobility.

This is much better than the Blood Magus.

That does indeed look like a solid way to go, but I was thinking half-orc for this character from the get go and not taking the opportunity to use the scarred witch doctor or orc bloodline without feeling a little dirty is too good to pass up.

- Torger

The Exchange

kestral287 wrote:
Think you're getting your Arcanist and Magus wires crossed there, Mystic Madness.

Lol, yeah that last sentence should be "blood arcanist."

The Blade Adept Arcanist has a number of very nice Magus abilities that are easily fueled by the Consume Spells feature, a weakness of the Magus with its limited arcane pool. I guess I got excited about the build.


Blade Adept is somewhat of a trap option, IMO. You don't get exploits till 5th level, and the exploits that allow you to enchant your weapon are very damaging to your action economy. Aside from that, you're basically a caster with the saved money from a weapon you'll be very bad at using. Sure you'll be able to buff, but in that case, your best bet lies in Transmutation, which very often eschews weapons entirely.

The Exchange

Torger Miltenberger wrote:


That does indeed look like a solid way to go, but I was thinking half-orc for this character from the get go and not taking the opportunity to use the scarred witch doctor or orc bloodline without feeling a little dirty is too good to pass up.

- Torger

I can certainly respect that.


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I know GMs vary enormously in the way they run games so I don't know your case, but are you really looking at a situation where, outside of surprises, core 1min/level buffs aren't usually going to be pre-cast once they last a considerable amount of time?

For example, the Ironskin spell is more or less on par with the Witch Doctor's natural AC buff ability, but by simply spending a few level 2 spells at mid level or higher, you can start Ironskin up when you're walking into trouble and then keep it going. Unless you're dealing with a GM who likes repeated surprise attacks in between long, pointless crawls, I would think that spells like that should be reaching 'almost always on' status. Even with a high level slot you can't afford to waste like Giant Form, it will last 13 minutes by the time you can cast it. Still, I suppose some GMs (or parties...) basically either make it extremely difficult to pre-cast or just flat out don't permit it, so it comes down to your situation.

As good as Augment Summoning is, I'm not sure a solid but pedestrian improvement on summons is the way you want to go with two of your precious, precious feats. In the end a summon is a throw-away ally whose contribution is, first and foremost, to live and die. A little more attack, damage and hp is handy on a summon, but it's still the 'help'.

In contrast, Spell Focus/ Augment Summon/ Arcane Strike are three feats plus a swift action that could instead be leveraged for enormous benefit in melee by using the Intimidating Prowess & Cornugon Smash -> Hurtful combo, or by using Hex Strike: Evil Eye.

Hurtful is just a straight-up almost-guaranteed extra full ab strike per round, even on a charge or single attack. As a huge side benefit, foes are shaken. Really, I'd probably go for Cornugon Smash eventually whatever else you do.

Hex Strike: Evil Eye allows you to add a nasty, versatile debuff to an unarmed strike with a swift action - even if they save, it still lasts 1 round. All other attacks would use your normal weapon; you simply punch once per round when your target is big enough to warrant a debuff. With a Brawling Haramaki you can make unarmed strike quite effective for cheap; since you presumably don't need an Amulet of Natural Armor, throwing another fun feature like Cruel onto your unarmed strike is also very cost-effective; and since you're only using unarmed strike once per round, a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes +1 is a third fairly cheap option.

The Exchange

Kaouse wrote:
Blade Adept is somewhat of a trap option, IMO. You don't get exploits till 5th level, and the exploits that allow you to enchant your weapon are very damaging to your action economy. Aside from that, you're basically a caster with the saved money from a weapon you'll be very bad at using. Sure you'll be able to buff, but in that case, your best bet lies in Transmutation, which very often eschews weapons entirely.

Keep in mind that we are, by definition, describing a suboptimal build that is hindered by the guidelines set by the OP. There is no question that there are more powerful multi-class or slower spell-progression (Magus) builds for melee or ranged combat.

The major weakness of the Blade Adept Arcanist is actually the lack of the weapon enchantment ability of the ordinary Magus. The ability to add keen is critical (pun intended) to use of the spellstrike ability. This can be mitigated by use of the keen weapon spell, a 10-minute per level buff that can easily be doubled in duration with a 3,000 gp rod. A scimitar is also probably preferable to the longsword now that I think about it, although the longsword is more suited thematically to an elf.

Arcane accuracy is a swift action, so I'm not sure how that screws up action economy. You are correct that this build winds up slowly, but that is true of ANY arcane caster build.

As far as transmutation is concerned, the main reason this is the "best bet" is because of the low BAB of the arcane classes and thus the lack of iterative attacks, meaning that a form with multiple natural attacks has an advantage. There are, of course, forms that allow use of weapons, such as undead anatomy or giant form. When used in conjunction with the transformation spell, which increases BAB, these spells will even out. The OP expressed a preference for a weapon-using build, so that is what I suggested.


BadBird wrote:

I know GMs vary enormously in the way they run games so I don't know your case, but are you really looking at a situation where, outside of surprises, core 1min/level buffs aren't usually going to be pre-cast once they last a considerable amount of time?

For example, the Ironskin spell is more or less on par with the Witch Doctor's natural AC buff ability, but by simply spending a few level 2 spells at mid level or higher, you can start Ironskin up when you're walking into trouble and then keep it going. Unless you're dealing with a GM who likes repeated surprise attacks in between long, pointless crawls, I would think that spells like that should be reaching 'almost always on' status. Even with a high level slot you can't afford to waste like Giant Form, it will last 13 minutes by the time you can cast it. Still, I suppose some GMs (or parties...) basically either make it extremely difficult to pre-cast or just flat out don't permit it, so it comes down to your situation.

As good as Augment Summoning is, I'm not sure a solid but pedestrian improvement on summons is the way you want to go with two of your precious, precious feats. In the end a summon is a throw-away ally whose contribution is, first and foremost, to live and die. A little more attack, damage and hp is handy on a summon, but it's still the 'help'.

In contrast, Spell Focus/ Augment Summon/ Arcane Strike are three feats plus a swift action that could instead be leveraged for enormous benefit in melee by using the Intimidating Prowess & Cornugon Smash -> Hurtful combo, or by using Hex Strike: Evil Eye.

Hurtful is just a straight-up almost-guaranteed extra full ab strike per round, even on a charge or single attack. As a huge side benefit, foes are shaken. Really, I'd probably go for Cornugon Smash eventually whatever else you do.

Hex Strike: Evil Eye allows you to add a nasty, versatile debuff to an unarmed strike with a swift action - even if they save, it still lasts 1 round. All other attacks would use your normal weapon; you simply punch once per round when your target is big enough to warrant a debuff. With a Brawling Haramaki you can make unarmed strike quite effective for cheap; since you presumably don't need an Amulet of Natural Armor, throwing another fun feature like Cruel onto your unarmed strike is also very cost-effective; and since you're only using unarmed strike once per round, a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes +1 is a third fairly cheap option.

I suspect my table includes higher than average amounts of unexpected combat. I'll definitely be trying to make use of 1min/level buffs pre combat but I can't 100% say I'll be able to rely on them so I prefer to concentrate on planning for the worst case scenario.

I went with augment summoning because this is a weird build and I want to have a 100% no one can argue with it's awesomeness traditional caster option to fall back on should the weirdness fail.

Looking at the Corrogun/hurtful thing it's interesting, I would have to redo my mental stats as I'd need intimidate but I tanked INT and get a whopping 1 skill point per level. I appreciate the suggestion for sure, I'll look into it.

I see where you're going with the Hex strike and I like it but it's moving into a number of gear types that I might not be able to get away with at this table. Also do I really want to sink two feats and a hex into it when arcane strike gives me something useful to do with my swift action in combat at the cost of a single feat? Probably worth it, but I know I'd be resenting the hell out of improved unarmed strike for a few levels until it came online.

Thanks for your thoughts, definitely good stuff.

- Torger


Interesting goal considering you and your supposed 'not another millimeter' stance on caster power. My mental voice for the quoted portion was done in a Nixon one Futurama style.

You said you've already done a multiclassed dragon disciple. But, really, it plays out differently if you just stick with it. The orc bloodline eventually gives you a +6 inherent bonus to strength. Is it the orc line? Might be one of the fiendish ones (abyssal or infernal). One of the fiendish ones also does the same for con which you'll desperately need for having a d6 HD. That's better than what wish can get you. Orc, though, gives you other benefits useful to melee. Otherwise, transmutations are how you're accomplishing the goal. If you go wizard, take the discovery that gives you +2 to trans. spells that give an enhancement bonus. The transformation spell itself changes your BAB and gives other benefits but cuts off casting for its duration.

Good luck.


Buri Reborn wrote:

Interesting goal considering you and your supposed 'not another millimeter' stance on caster power. My mental voice for the quoted portion was done in a Nixon one Futurama style.

You said you've already done a multiclassed dragon disciple. But, really, it plays out differently if you just stick with it. The orc bloodline eventually gives you a +6 inherent bonus to strength. Is it the orc line? Might be one of the fiendish ones (abyssal or infernal). One of the fiendish ones also does the same for con which you'll desperately need for having a d6 HD. That's better than what wish can get you. Orc, though, gives you other benefits useful to melee. Otherwise, transmutations are how you're accomplishing the goal. If you go wizard, take the discovery that gives you +2 to trans. spells that give an enhancement bonus. The transformation spell itself changes your BAB and gives other benefits but cuts off casting for its duration.

Good luck.

Yea, that's games I run. This is for a game I play in. I can't control the DMs rule set (nor should I be able to) so I may as well roll with it.

Yup, would be a different type of dragon disciple mechanically no doubt but the flavor is similar enough that I don't want to go back there.

I will be taking a look at the wizard discovery you mentioned. Thanks for bringing it up.

- Torger


Buri Reborn wrote:
If you go wizard, take the discovery that gives you +2 to trans. spells that give an enhancement bonus. The transformation spell itself changes your BAB and gives other benefits but cuts off casting for its duration.

The Idealize Discovery from Champions of Balance.

If you decide to try a wizard with a combat maneuvers approach, look into the Knowledge is Power Discovery (People of the River) which lets you add your intelligence modifier to CMB, CMD, and some strength checks.


Gisher wrote:

The Idealize Discovery from Champions of Balance.

If you decide to try a wizard with a combat maneuvers approach, look into the Knowledge is Power Discovery (People of the River) which lets you add your intelligence modifier to CMB, CMD, and some strength checks.

That's another good one. I made a wizard that took nothing but Arcane Discoveries for feats except for Improved Initiative and Craft Wondrous Item. It was a very interesting character to play.


Torger Miltenberger wrote:
Have done Dragon Disciple before. Though I multi classed it with a bunch of martial type things so the caster aspect was pretty downplayed.

A Barbarian 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Dragon Disciple 4/ Eldritch Knight is probably my all-time favorite battle-caster, and arguably pretty high on the list of most punishing melee combatants.

By the time Disciple is done at 9, you've got a core +4STR from Disciple and +6STR from casting Greater Magic Weapon +2 on a +1 Furious, Courageous Greatsword and then raging (Furious makes it a +2+2=+4 weapon, Courageous thus adds a +2 bonus to all morale effects, such as rage...). So it's easy to have something like 20STR +4belt +4disciple +6rage = 34STR for swinging around a +4 two-handed weapon with Power Attack. Throw Heroism in there (now +4ab thanks to your weapon) and you're at +20 from strength, Heroism and weapon.

Defensively, you have good HP in general thanks to Barbarian and Disciple levels, and with Raging Vitality and your rage weapon you get +8CON while raging. You also gain +3 to base natural armor, and your saves are very solid from the combination of Disciple and Sorcerer. You get sorcerer levels of spells-per-day for basics like Enlarge Person, Shield, Mirror Image and Haste, and as it gets into higher levels you start to pick up options like Monstrous Physique and Overland Flight.

While you're not directly mixing casting and melee - and in fact you aren't going to be casting while raging - the whole 'arcane warrior' feel is really driven home by the fact that you're harnessing this absurdly powerful synergy between dragon blood, rage, and a powerful weapon that you channel your magic into. Feats are a little limited since you want Extra Rage at least once and Raging Vitality is a good idea, but there's still enough room for Power Attack -> Cornugon -> Hurtful, and even Dimensional Dervish by 15 as a 'charge' that kicks off your raging...


So now that we got the class... Are you sure you want half orc? ::evil smile::


I recommend a White-Haired Witch.

This offers you decent amounts of AoO potential.


Ok, so your going orc scarred witch doctor. If you can find a way to fit in two feats and a 13 charisma, consider the serpent bloodline or the impossible bloodline. It would give your melee form a poison attack based off your high constitution.


Doesn't the Scarred Witch Doctor still need INT for a lot of stuff?


Secret Wizard wrote:
Doesn't the Scarred Witch Doctor still need INT for a lot of stuff?

Like what? They replace INT with CON for hexes, spell level, spell DC, # of spells known at first level, and their familiar is replaced by a mask. What else is there?


I think it's bonus spells.


Ah, yes. That would be missed.


^Probably an oversight in editing, since it doesn't make much sense.


I like the Eldritch Scrapper who takes Eldritch Heritage to pick up the orc bloodline STR boosts and uses the natural attacks of the draconic bloodline.
I believe there's an orc trait that gives you a bite attack, meaning you will have 3 attacks for your full round which is godly at early levels.
Eventually you can just go dragon disciple for the sake of it.


There are a lot of great options out there, and it looks like you've already made a solid choice with the orc witch; but if you do return to the drawing board, don't be afraid to keep things simple... Wizard, with the Transmutation/Shapechange subschool. You get to enhance an ability every day, scaling up to +5 to two abilities eventually. You can grow natural attacks as a swift action in an emergency, and can Change Shape as beast shape or elemental body (scaling at later level) a number of rounds equal to your wizard level starting at 8th.

You also get a familiar without having to jump thru hoops, and the bonus wizard feats @ 5th, 10th, etc., plus your free Scribe Scrolls. It's not much, but you'll want some feats to back up your melee potential, and you don't get bonus combat feats that the combat classes do. You can use these to select Arcane Discoveries as well. Multimorph could be handy in a pinch for you...but Time Stutter granting you a 1 round time stop 1/day at 10th will definitely help you prepare for combat a little quicker if you're ambushed (which sounds like something you're planning for).

It's not perfect, and it isn't as fancy as other options are, but it's pretty solid. :P


Kaouse wrote:
I think it's bonus spells.

Huh, yea didn't read it as closely as I should, just skimmed it and assumed it was for everything witch magic related. Guess I'm trading my bonus spells for more hit points.

- Torger


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
So now that we got the class... Are you sure you want half orc? ::evil smile::

Heh, yea I'm aware that Orc is nothing but mechanically better for this concept but I think half orc will do just fine and is closer to the character I have in my head.

- Torger


What is awesome for a witch is, if you're prebuffed to be enlarged wielding a reach weapon, sleep hex round 1 and coup de gras round 2. You could be looking at a 8d6+4×1.5 strength in two rounds. With some good reach.


I can see the appeal of the Retribution Hex but still think Evil Eye might be nice. The -4 debuff to a big foe's attacks or AC could help with your melee plan, and if you decide to fall back on your spells due to melee being ineffective a -4 to the enemy's saving throws might be helpful.

If you decide to try using Cornugon Smash (or Enforcer) with Hurtful be sure to check out the Cruel weapon enchantment to add the Sickened condition to your debuff package. Stack all those debuffs together and you might be able to cut some pretty tough melee foes down to size.


Note that the Soothsayer 'hex' can delay the beginning of Evil Eye until it actually does something. Since it doesn't begin on your turn, it will still be in effect on your next turn, even if it only lasted 1 round. Useful if you want to, say, throw a -4AC on something at a distance and then still have the -4AC on it when you attack on the next round, even if an ally has already taken advantage of the debuff. Extra useful if playing with reach tactics.


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I am really surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet in 2 pages.

The game will fundamentally change for you when you get 7th level spells.

Find something with a juicy attack routine and great physical ability scores (and preferably flight), and make yourself a snow cone out of it. Then cast magic jar and ride your new snow-mecha into battle for 13+ hours per 5th level spell. Load it down with some nice items to boost it, maybe call in an efreeti to get it some inherent bonuses. If you have something nice in mind but its HD is a little out of your reach, drop some UMD on a bead of karma and/or a scroll of death knell. And don't forget you can always layer on plenty of other buffs to make your new body even more effective.

Some particularly juicy options:

Great Wyrm Gold Dragon: Requires CL 15 (fairly trivial) and bags you a snow cone body with 232 hp and AC 40 before magic items or other enhancements. A bite, two claws, a tail slap, and two wing attacks with a Str score of 43. Fly speed 300 (which is pretty sweet), Dragon Senses, and a decent breath weapon (assuming it counts as "natural"). It has a lot of its own magic (and the Luck ability) to provide, and can Change Shape into a medium sized humanoid or whatever you like (maybe a big giant like a cloud giant or something; they're humanoids, or a big pouncing critter with a more favorable size modifier like a dire tiger) without changing ability scores; though you'll have to pop out of it since magic jar doesn't give you control of those abilities.

Thanatotic Titan: It's big! It has 235 hitpoints! It's Str is 49 before you toss on inherent bonuses, and a +6 item for a total of 60, and DR/epic. This one's great for just plain smashing things with a big weapon and not drawing too much suspicion. Cast transformation and go wild; at 13th level you'd be swinging for +28/+23/+18 (XdY+37) with a hunk of metal you picked up off the ground.

Nocticula (Demon Lord): Oh man. 387 hitpoints and a base AC of 48. This one is a lot more likely to make your GM cry foul and outright deny the strategy, but it's amusing to think about. You get natural and automatic abilities, so you get to keep the constant SLAs (freedom of movement, true seeing, and tongues!), 2 claws, 3 stings, 2 hooves, and 2 wings. Sneak attack +4d6. A crapload of nice immunities and DR/epic, along with Regeneration (mythic) and Cha to damage on ranged attacks. Don't forget to snag a Profane Ascension from it before hopping on board.

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