Single-classed White Haired Witch...viable?


Advice


The White-haired witch archetype has been decried as *trap* - it lures a 1/2 BAB class with poor HP into melee, it loses the very powerful Hex class feature...

But can a single-classed White-haired witch nonetheless become a decent grappler, given time?

Let's give it a try.

Human White-Haired Witch

15 PB:

18 STR 12 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 7 CHA(+2 racial to STR)

Traits: Magical Lineage(Frostbite), Fate's favored

1st: Cantrips, Patron(Strength), Familiar(King Crab), White Hair(Swift Grapple); Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
2nd: White Hair(Swift Constrict), Patron spell(Divine Favor)
3rd: Celestial Obedience(Falayna)
4th: White Hair(10' reach, Swift trip), Patron spell(Bull's strength), +1 INT
5th: Rime Spell
6th: White Hair(Swift pull), Patron Spell(Greater Magic Weapon)
7th: Final Embrace
8th: White Hair(Reach 15', Strangle), Patron Spell(Divine Power), +1 INT
9th: Combat Reflexes
10th: Rogue Talent(Weapon Training(White Hair)), Patron Spell(Righteous Might)
11th: Quicken Spell
12th: White Hair(Reach 20'), Rogue Talent(Combat Training: Greater Grapple), +1 INT
13th: Sickening Spell
14th: Rogue Talent(Minor Magic-Prestidigitation), Patron Spell(Mass Bull's Strength)
15th: Spell Perfection(True Strike)
16th: White Hair(Reach 25'), Rogue Talent(Major Magic-Silent Image) Patron Spell(Giant Form I), +1 INT
17th: Improved Initiative
18th: Advanced Rogue Talent(Improved Evasion), Patron Spell(Giant Form II)
19th: Toughness
20th: White Hair(Reach 30'), Advanced Rogue Talent(Opportunist), Patron Spell(Shapechange) +1 INT

---------------------------------

1st-level: Attack with the hair:
+4, 1d4+8 damage(+ swift action grapple attempt at +6...)
Grapple CMB: +4 STR +2 Crab +2 feat = +8

4th-level: Hair has reach.
Attack(unbuffed) at +6, 1d4+8 dmg
Unbuffed Grapple CMB: +4 STR +2 Crab +2 feat +2 BAB +4 sacred = +14

8th-level: Hair has more reach and strangles anyone who is grappled; this means casters are pretty much doomed.
We have grab and constrict now, both trigger as free actions, from Final Embrace.
Unbuffed Grapple CMB: +4 STR +2 crab +2 feat +4 BAB +4 sacred +4 grab = +20

We can also use Rime Frost Bites to debuff.

12th-level: Hair has even more reach; we have Greater Grapple and can Quicken True Strike if necessary.
Unbuffed Grapple CMB: +4 STR +2 crab +5 feats +6 BAB +4 sacred +4 grab = +25

16th-level: Hair has ridiculous reach; We have Spell perfection and can spam quickened True strikes. We can use Sickening Rime Frostbites to debuff.
Unbuffed Grapple CMB: +4 STR +2 crab +5 feats +8 BAB +4 sacred +4 Grab = +27

20th-level: Hair has 30' reach; we have 9th-level casting.
Unbuffed Grapple CMB: +4 STR +2 crab +5 feats +10 BAB +4 sacred +4 Grab = +29

.....

Ideas/Comments/Advice welcome.


Minor point, while most of the abilities were errata'd to swift actions and therefore mostly useful for qualifying for Final Embrace, the Grab ability remains a free action.

I think newer feats like the Celestial Obediance do a good job closing the CMB vs CMD gap due to halved BAB, but it's still a pretty difficult endeavor.

The main issue that sends people dipping is the poor durability, and as far as I'm aware the Witch has difficulties attaining the Polymorph spells a Wizard could use for combat.

EDIT: Also form-dependant abilities are lost while polymorphing anyway, although I've never been clear as to if that means the chosen form must have hair to retain White Hair or if any polymorph loses it. This will be relevant for my own White Haired Witch/Magus in a couple of levels when he attains Monstrous Physique.


Exguardi wrote:


The main issue that sends people dipping is the poor durability,

Well yes.

But being able to hit something is nice too.
I have been trying to get a White Haired Witch build together with difficulty so I have been looking into this.
On your build-
1 The damage on the hair works off int not strength. So you want to swap around the int and str in your build. That will give you +4 on damage with hair instead of +0 and allow you to cast spells that are not cantrips, which is also a boon.
2 I would go Dex 14 Con 14 and Int 16 to 18 depending on how much you want to dump other stats. Then take weapon finesse.
3 You want Serpentine Squeeze as a trait.

Scarab Sages

Joynt Jezebel wrote:


1 The damage on the hair works off int not strength. So you want to swap around the int and str in your build. That will give you +4 on damage with hair instead of +0 and allow you to cast spells that are not cantrips, which is also a boon.

Damage is INT based but to hit is STR based. This is surely a mistake, but it wasn't corrected with the swift action nerf of the class.


Serpentine Squeeze requires the Worship of Ydersius, who is chaotic evil. This is incompatible with worshipping Falayna, who is lawful good.

Concerning the damage from white hair:

Quote:
At 1st level, a white-haired witch gains the ability to use her hair as a weapon. This functions as a primary natural attack with a reach of 5 feet. The hair deals 1d4 points of damage (1d3 for a Small witch) plus the witch’s Intelligence modifier.

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.

=> The hair is a primary natural attack. It uses STR for accuracy and 1.5 STR for damage; it deals 1d4 base damage and deals +INT damage because the ability says so.

->Final damage: 1d4+INT+(1.5*STR)


On the hair attack- I suspect what was intended was the hair attack works off int for both to hit and damage.

My GM has just house ruled it that way. And let me take the Serpentine Squeeze though I am LE and worship Asmodeus, which I then forgot about when I made my last post. You can always check if your GM is benign.

The RAW is certainly the hairs to hit works off strength, which I always knew, and seeing the last post I think you are probably right SillyGuy, you get to add 150% of your strength mod, which I did not know. Some GMs may disagree or house rule otherwise.

I may have got a couple of things wrong in my initial post, but your character wants an int of at least 14. You need it to cast spells and hair damage.

If you are interested in swapping ideas I can post my build. Its given me no end of trouble due to working from 2 published guides both of which contain errors, and there are an appalling number of Pathfinder rules and I am no guru in that dept.


The thread Gravewalker cometh . . .

Any help for White-Haired Witch in more recent material? Unfortunately VMC Magus with the Maneuver Mastery Arcana doesn't help, because VMC Magus only gives you effective Magus levels for qualifying for Arcana, not for their effect. VMC Wizard taking the Knowledge Is Power Discovery would work, but WAY TOO LATE, and before this it uselessly attempts to duplicate your Familiar (and I don't think White-Haired Witch is compatible with any archetype that replaces the Witch's Familiar) and almost uselessly gives you a Sorcerer/Wizard Cantrip (only use I can think of is if you need Mage Hand for going into Arcane Trickster after level 10 without needing to spend a Rogue Talent on Minor Magic, which is not a bad idea, except that VMC Rogue is probably the better VMC for White-Haired Witch into Arcane Trickster, and that isn't single-classed anyway).


For the cost of one feat and one level of spellcasting/hex progression, you can go into Evangelist to increase your BAB but still retain progression as a Witch.


Joynt Jezebel wrote:
1 The damage on the hair works off int not strength.

Actually, I think the Damage bonus works both off Int AND St. IIRC, it says, you get to add you Int modifier, not that you use your Int Modifier instead of St.

One neat trick you can do with White Hair is Great Cleave with it. You can then Grapple everybody, and you are not grappled, yourself.

If you then take a 5' Step back, if your victims escape your Grapple, they have no prospect of Grappling you back unless they have as much Reach as you.

I would want to dip in other classes and gain Greater Grapple and Expert Captor. But you probably want to do other things like that throw Web spell that makes opponents Blind.

Give your Familiar the Protector Archetype. It gains Bodyguard and Combat Reflexes. I'd want to dip into Cavalier, Warpriest, or Inquisitor 1-3 levels to gain Paired Opportunist and the accompanying Class Ability, and gain an Attack of Opportunity whenever someone attacks me. But again you don't want to do that.

I started a thread called Wrestling with White Haired Witch. It might have helpful ideas. Good luck.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

{. . .}

I started a thread called Wrestling with White Haired Witch. It might have helpful ideas. Good luck.

(Linkified) Oh wow, I didn't realize that thread had gotten necro'ed as well.


UnArcaneElection wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

{. . .}

I started a thread called Wrestling with White Haired Witch. It might have helpful ideas. Good luck.

(Linkified) Oh wow, I didn't realize that thread had gotten necro'ed as well.

It had only been a couple of weeks since WWWHW's last post.

I've been finding White Hair to have awesome potential to dip into for multiclassing, but singleclassing White Haired Witch doesn't seem to work. There is a lovely spell called Limp Lash, that would work nicely with WHW. Dual Classing between White Haired Witch and Hexcrafter Maagus seems to have a lot of potential.

I like the idea of being able to have your victim(s) Grappled in your hair helpless while you ravage them with attack spells, and your hair gains Reach with Witch Levels.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:
1 The damage on the hair works off int not strength.
Actually, I think the Damage bonus works both off Int AND St. IIRC, it says, you get to add you Int modifier, not that you use your Int Modifier instead of St.

Someone is splitting hairs. :-)

/cevah


^Never make fun of a Witch who is having a bad hair day . . . .


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You mean like this?

/cevah


Cevah wrote:

You mean like this?

/cevah

I was thinking Eartha Kitt as a witch , also in Erik the Viking, but thank you for showing me that cartoon again.


UnArcaneElection wrote:
^Never make fun of a Witch who is having a bad hair day . . . .

Offer to wash their hair. They they cannot do anything with it. :-)

/cevah

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

This thread is hilhairious.


Cevah wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
^Never make fun of a Witch who is having a bad hair day . . . .

Offer to wash their hair. They they cannot do anything with it. :-)

/cevah

Ha! No way! This will be her battle song!

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