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They've been coming out every other month for some time. Also, the subscription discount is now 30% (instead of 15% from your pathfinder Advantage), so they're $10.50, not $12.
Edit: Or at least I thought they were 6/year...There are 28 of them including the announced ones, which come up to 5 years (Prince of Wolves was GenCon 2010)..so that's been nearly 6 a year.
The email I got said the MSRP was $15. 30% off that, unless I've forgotten basic math, is $3. Which is why I said $12.
You're right about the approximately 6x/year, though. End result is still almost a 50% price increase for me ($8.50 to $12). I'll chew it over some more but think I'll have to call it quits to yet another of my original subs.
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I agree with many other posters. Good for Paizo that they are expanding their market, but it's a rough deal for us original subscribers.
The new format does nothing for me and the loss of the digital copy is the deal breaker for me. Unfortunately, I'll cancel my subscription as well.
Lord of Runes is showing on Amazon as a $10.05 preorder, to be released on June 2.
Effectively, not including international shipping, the price for getting a similar amount of product to the old subscription just doubled, with at least a few weeks extra delay before the digital version is available compared to previously.
I'm finding it very hard to see any positives at all from an existing customer's viewpoint.
International shipping? What's that ? Use bookdepository.com or betterworldbooks.com for free shipping worldwide...
Does the 30% of you get on the PF Tales subscription stack with the 15% you get with Pathfinder Advantage you get for a AP subscription?
The email I got said the MSRP was $15. 30% off that, unless I've forgotten basic math, is $3. Which is why I said $12.
$3 is 20% of $15. 30% of $15 is $4.50, which results in a cost of $10.50, as Ross said.
Does the 30% of you get on the PF Tales subscription stack with the 15% you get with Pathfinder Advantage you get for a AP subscription?
Assuming it works like the other discounted subs, it overlaps, not stacks.
Sadly, I think this change is worst for those of us with mixed use of print and pdf. I primarily read print (and can only read print on the bus - reading screens gives me a migraine almost instantly), but I've also once or twice finished the novel in PDF before the book arrives.
I'll miss my collection of PDFs, and I prefer mass market sizes as well, but I'll be continuing my subscription as is. $8.50 to $10.50 isn't so bad, and as much as I like the line, the consistency has been getting better.
Hmm... at least I have space on my Planet Stories shelf for more trades - my mass market Tales shelf just filled up.
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I'm not worried about the price change: inflation happens and a price increase may have been due even without the format or publisher change.
But I can't justify buying each book twice, and ePub serves me better. Which is why I await more details on what online stores will carry them and at what price point.
Well.. I will be killing my sub. No digital is a deal breaker for me. I see this as nothing more than a money grab.
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More money, no PDF?
Not cool.
I see this as nothing more than a money grab.
You think a small price increase on an existing product line is a money grab, instead of a reflection of the production costs of the new format, or a result of Tor and/or Paizo's new cut of the business, or an inevitable increase due to inflation or a fluctuation of the price of printing.
Heck, just Tor printing in the U.S. Instead of China can make a big difference. (I have no idea where Tor print their books.)
I've concluded that I can't justify the cost of the subscription under the new terms and asked for mine to be cancelled. I usually read the digital formats rather than the physical one, so to get both would now effectively double the cost to me.
I'll stick with buying the digital releases whenever I remember to.
The email I got said the MSRP was $15. 30% off that, unless I've forgotten basic math, is $3. Which is why I said $12.$3 is 20% of $15. 30% of $15 is $4.50, which results in a cost of $10.50, as Ross said.
LOL. I did forget basic math!
Now it's a tougher call; $8.50 to $10.50 isn't the end of the world.
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Very disapointed with the subscription news.
I was not thrilled with the book size change or price increase but I would survive.
Now with increased price book form I don't care for and NO PDF I might need to cancel my subscription as it is just not worth it.
Anyone know of Paizo will sell electronic copies or if that option was sacrificed to Tor to get the books to a bigger market?
I thought this deal was to open up the Tales books to a wider market, I never suspected it would involve closing part of the existing market (no PDFs from Paizo).
I hope we gett more answers soon? i.e.Will Paizo sell electronic version and at what price.
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I see this as nothing more than a money grab.You think a small price increase on an existing product line is a money grab, instead of a reflection of the production costs of the new format, or a result of Tor and/or Paizo's new cut of the business, or an inevitable increase due to inflation or a fluctuation of the price of printing.
Heck, just Tor printing in the U.S. Instead of China can make a big difference. (I have no idea where Tor print their books.)
I think the loss of the PDF/epub is the hard hit not the price increase.
I see this as nothing more than a money grab.You think a small price increase on an existing product line is a money grab, instead of a reflection of the production costs of the new format, or a result of Tor and/or Paizo's new cut of the business, or an inevitable increase due to inflation or a fluctuation of the price of printing.
Heck, just Tor printing in the U.S. Instead of China can make a big difference. (I have no idea where Tor print their books.)
Thats your opinion. Glad your happy with this decision. However, you seem to be the minority. The loss of the digital product is just a money grab to make more money on the same product. I never read the physical books. Therefore it just doubled my cost for the same product. No thanks. The books are not that great in the first place.
Thats your opinion. Glad your happy with this decision. However, you seem to be the minority.
I'm sympathetic to those who are losing the PDFs and for whom that was the best (or a significant) bonus of subscribing. Nonetheless, I think it's useful to not judge "the majority view" based on internet posts. After all, an announcement like this is hardly going to provoke posts (from people like me) who are broadly unaffected by the decision. Similarly, I dont think it's right to dismiss the ways people value products just because one doesnt share them.
For those who are purely concerned with losing access to the electronic format, it's probably worth waiting to see what the e-book availability, format options and prices are going to be. If you're an electronic-only reader (generic you, not any specific poster) you may well be better off, once the full details emerge.
At this stage, the only people who know they are probably losing out are those for whom getting an electronic copy through Paizo's site was a significant thing.
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Thats your opinion. Glad your happy with this decision. However, you seem to be the minority. The loss of the digital product is just a money grab to make more money on the same product. I never read the physical books. Therefore it just doubled my cost for the same product. No thanks. The books are not that great in the first place.
I wouldn't say I'm happy: I cancelled my subscription, too.
But 'money grab' implies a decision based on greed, rather than business necessity. That's a moral judgement I think it is unfair to leap to. Just because it is something you can't or won't pay doesn't make it a money grab.
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Well.. I will be killing my sub. No digital is a deal breaker for me. I see this as nothing more than a money grab.
When Paizo does not do the product in house they are subject to the agreements of their partner company, see no pdf for comics as an example. You are working with a questionable definition of money grab.
I'm still hoping we'll find out what ebook formats the books will be available in, and where they'll be available from.
Yeah, it's hard to really evaluate the change properly without that information.
I don't get it...I understand people canceling their subscription because the loss of the pdf(I seem to be the opposite of most people and just read the hard copy but I still get their view point).
But to complain about the price? Did it not just get cheaper for you the people who just read the electronic format? I mean before you guys were paying $8+ for a physical copy that you never read and electronic copy...now you guys can just go get the electronic copy which I generally see on Amazon and B&N sites going for about $5. And you don't have to deal with a physical copy that you will never use in the first place.
Admittedly I really don't know much about the electronically book so am I missing something?
Actually Amazon is showing the price of the digital version of Lord of Runes as $10.05. That's more than the old subscription cost for both book and digital, which was $8.49 It's a hit to the pocket any way you look at it.
Effectively, the cost for a similar service to the old subscription terms just went up by 142% for anyone who wants both. I think there is valid cause for complaint there.
To buy just the ebook is not a huge increase for someone who just used the digital version from the subscription anyway, but it's something I find ... nigglingly irritating to be honest. I'm not actually angry, and I'm prepared to pay the new price for the digital version, though not to buy the physical, but I'm still far from a happy camper with the changes.
It may (or may not, I'm in no position to judge) be a good choice for Paizo as a company and for growing their market, but for the existing subscribers who made the Tales line profitable in the first place, it's ... not so good a deal.
Actually Amazon is showing the price of the digital version of Lord of Runes as $10.05. That's more than the old subscription cost for both book and digital, which was $8.49 It's a hit to the pocket any way you look at it.
Effectively, the cost for a similar service to the old subscription terms just went up by 142% for anyone who wants both. I think there is valid cause for complaint there.
To buy just the ebook is not a huge increase for someone who just used the digital version from the subscription anyway, but it's something I find ... nigglingly irritating to be honest. I'm not actually angry, and I'm prepared to pay the new price for the digital version, though not to buy the physical, but I'm still far from a happy camper with the changes.
It may (or may not, I'm in no position to judge) be a good choice for Paizo as a company and for growing their market, but for the existing subscribers who made the Tales line profitable in the first place, it's ... not so good a deal.
Good point (and I checked B&N who have for $9.99) so I can see what you mean.
I don't get it...I understand people canceling their subscription because the loss of the pdf(I seem to be the opposite of most people and just read the hard copy but I still get their view point).
But to complain about the price? Did it not just get cheaper for you the people who just read the electronic format? I mean before you guys were paying $8+ for a physical copy that you never read and electronic copy...now you guys can just go get the electronic copy which I generally see on Amazon and B&N sites going for about $5. And you don't have to deal with a physical copy that you will never use in the first place.
Admittedly I really don't know much about the electronically book so am I missing something?
For me, it isn't about the economics - if you really must have both the physical and electronic copy, having to buy both is a huge hike, but I think the majority of people need one more than the other.
It's about the convenience - going digital-only means giving up the subscription. Which means now I'll be waiting until the retail release date, and having to manually complete my purchase.
It would be nice if there was an eBook subscription, but Paizo has been historically disinclined to offer digital-only subscriptions, for a number of reasons. Even the Big Finish subscription (if it had happened) was about CDs, not digital files. And that's even assuming that Paizo will be able to sell the eBooks at all. We still don't know if Tor's contract and/or workflow will make that possible - it might be only iBookstore/Nook/Kindle/Google Play/other big eBook stores.
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Good point (and I checked B&N who have for $9.99) so I can see what you mean.Actually Amazon is showing the price of the digital version of Lord of Runes as $10.05. That's more than the old subscription cost for both book and digital, which was $8.49 It's a hit to the pocket any way you look at it.
Effectively, the cost for a similar service to the old subscription terms just went up by 142% for anyone who wants both. I think there is valid cause for complaint there.
To buy just the ebook is not a huge increase for someone who just used the digital version from the subscription anyway, but it's something I find ... nigglingly irritating to be honest. I'm not actually angry, and I'm prepared to pay the new price for the digital version, though not to buy the physical, but I'm still far from a happy camper with the changes.
It may (or may not, I'm in no position to judge) be a good choice for Paizo as a company and for growing their market, but for the existing subscribers who made the Tales line profitable in the first place, it's ... not so good a deal.
Kinda feels like the ones that made the line a success (i subscribed since the 1st book) are now paying the price so what we helped build can now reach more people /make more money.
I feel used; and not in a good way :)
Chief Technical Officer
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I will be frank: one of several primary goals for the Pathfinder Tales line is to attract fiction-loving non-gamers to the world of Pathfinder. And we believe that Tor has the ability to advance that goal farther than we ever could on our own.
Without partnering with Tor, the future of the line would likely not rise above "more of the same." And sure, that's great. But if Tor is able to expand the readership, we might be able to do more and bigger and better things in the future. We might be able to mix things up and do something special outside of the bimonthly paperback novel run. We might be able to attract authors that we can't get right now. I can't make any promises, of course, but we wouldn't be doing this if we didn't think it gave the line a better future than it would have otherwise.
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I will be frank: one of several primary goals for the Pathfinder Tales line is to attract fiction-loving non-gamers to the world of Pathfinder. And we believe that Tor has the ability to advance that goal farther than we ever could on our own.
Without partnering with Tor, the future of the line would likely not rise above "more of the same." And sure, that's great. But if Tor is able to expand the readership, we might be able to do more and bigger and better things in the future. We might be able to mix things up and do something special outside of the bimonthly paperback novel run. We might be able to attract authors that we can't get right now. I can't make any promises, of course, but we wouldn't be doing this if we didn't think it gave the line a better future than it would have otherwise.
I am sure this will bring the line more success; enough to more then make up for the subscribers that are cancelling(the same ones that got you to the point where you could partner with Tor).
Such is the price of progress.I wish you the best of luck.
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I will be frank: one of several primary goals for the Pathfinder Tales line is to attract fiction-loving non-gamers to the world of Pathfinder. And we believe that Tor has the ability to advance that goal farther than we ever could on our own.
Without partnering with Tor, the future of the line would likely not rise above "more of the same." And sure, that's great. But if Tor is able to expand the readership, we might be able to do more and bigger and better things in the future. We might be able to mix things up and do something special outside of the bimonthly paperback novel run. We might be able to attract authors that we can't get right now. I can't make any promises, of course, but we wouldn't be doing this if we didn't think it gave the line a better future than it would have otherwise.
Well, I hope you're right, and it all works out for Paizo. I'm not exactly happy with the changes, but you've got to do what you think is best for Paizo's long term prospects and I'm not going to be holding any grudges over this. But I can't help remembering a certain company a few years back that went to try to increase their market without considering their current customers. Someone else did listen, and now that first company has only the second largest share of their market, instead of the largest, which those customer friendly folks who'd been listening took away from them.
I'd hate to see Paizo forget that particular lesson, but this is the second time in the last year or so that the subscribers who've been supporting Paizo all along have been put behind potential new customers. It concerns me a little that this might be a continuing trend.
What was the other time?
That mess with the card game subscription where the add-on deck was for sale at a con while subscribers were stuck waiting a month for another shipment. Understandable since it was the big launch, but what got me mad at the time was how nobody at Paizo seemed to be willing to admit that there were any problems for quite a while.
The lack of information about what's happening with digital versions of Tales now (prices, where to buy etc...) is what brought the cards mess back to my mind, because it seemed back then that Paizo was being equally evasive about there being any sort of a problem at all with the card subscriptions way back then.
As I said at the time, people are a lot more willing to accept a problem if they're kept informed. Not keeping people informed makes them think there's something that needs to be hidden. And they expect the worst.
The circumstances with the card subscription, including a big product launch and late messed up shipments were a lot more understandable than the current circumstances with the Tales from a customer viewpoint I admit, but it still was a case of potential customers put before existing subscribers.
It also does bother me that Paizo seems to put off releasing bad news when it'd be a lot more customer friendly to get the information out and let people know what's happening. We still don't have any information about ebook versions of the Tales except what people have found digging for preorders on the major ebook sites. And that bothers me. What's so bad about what's happening that we can't even be told what sites will be have them for sale or given an estimated price? We don't even know for sure if Paizo will be selling their own ebooks yet.
Ah. I haven't really been following the card line.
In the other thread, Chris Lambetz stopped by to elaborate on the where or eBooks, but not the cost.
It's always possible Tor has something to do with it. I don't know. I tend to give Paizo the benefit of the doubt.
I got an answer here and it seems that Paizo will not sell digital copies of the pathfinder tales, which in turn means no tales subscription discount and (worse) not even AP subscription discount on the digital copies.
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Ah. I haven't really been following the card line.
In the other thread, Chris Lambetz stopped by to elaborate on the where or eBooks, but not the cost.
It's always possible Tor has something to do with it. I don't know. I tend to give Paizo the benefit of the doubt.
I can't think of any other Paizo/Pathfinder product that Paizo "can't" sell.
Seems like and odd deal with Tor if it prevents Paizo from selling Their own product (i.e. Digital version of Pathfinder Tales)but other competors in the market can.
Starting with Lord of Runes, it's a Tor product, not a Paizo product.
I can't think of any other Paizo/Pathfinder product that Paizo "can't" sell.
Digital copies of the comics are also not available at Paizo.com but must be purchased elsewhere, through the publisher's pre-existing arrangements, per my understanding.
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Digital copies of the comics are also not available at Paizo.com but must be purchased elsewhere, through the publisher's pre-existing arrangements, per my understanding.I can't think of any other Paizo/Pathfinder product that Paizo "can't" sell.
Forgot about that, I never realized you could get digital copies of the comics anywhere.
If you can it would be nice if Paizo posted a link to where I could purchase them.
Digital copies of the comics are also not available at Paizo.com but must be purchased elsewhere, through the publisher's pre-existing arrangements, per my understanding.I can't think of any other Paizo/Pathfinder product that Paizo "can't" sell.
Forgot about that, I never realized you could get digital copies of the comics anywhere.
If you can it would be nice if Paizo posted a link to where I could purchase them.
Chris said they're going to provide links for digital versions of the novels, maybe they can do the same for Comixology.
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Unfortunately, I am one of those people that often reads a little in an electronic format and some in the physical books. This has been a nice luxury especially come vacation time when it is easier to carry around an ipad than a bag of books. Like many people I can't justify buying things twice so I will need to decide one way or the other.
In either case I will be less happy than before and likely more choosy. With a subscription I was encouraged to read every story, why not they are all included. Without one, I will likely pick and choose based on favorite authors and subject matter.
Unfortunately, I am one of those people that often reads a little in an electronic format and some in the physical books. This has been a nice luxury especially come vacation time when it is easier to carry around an ipad than a bag of books. Like many people I can't justify buying things twice so I will need to decide one way or the other.
In either case I will be less happy than before and likely more choosy. With a subscription I was encouraged to read every story, why not they are all included. Without one, I will likely pick and choose based on favorite authors and subject matter.
And reviews.
Same here if end up dropping my subscription (i am still not sure), sure it has been some time since the tales released a dud but i will more picky if i end up dropping my subscription.|
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That mess with the card game subscription where the add-on deck was for sale at a con while subscribers were stuck waiting a month for another shipment. Understandable since it was the big launch, but what got me mad at the time was how nobody at Paizo seemed to be willing to admit that there were any problems for quite a while.
Please read this post for a full explanation of that. (An addendum to that post: the person at the printing company who was responsible for our products during Skull & Shackles and the first wave of Class Decks is no longer with the company, and Wrath of the Righteous has gone very smoothly.)
That mess with the card game subscription where the add-on deck was for sale at a con while subscribers were stuck waiting a month for another shipment. Understandable since it was the big launch, but what got me mad at the time was how nobody at Paizo seemed to be willing to admit that there were any problems for quite a while.Please read this post for a full explanation of that. (An addendum to that post: the person at the printing company who was responsible for our products during Skull & Shackles and the first wave of Class Decks is no longer with the company, and Wrath of the Righteous has gone very smoothly.)
I dont really wish anyone ill, but I must confess I'm kind of glad to hear that. It sounded very much like someone, somewhere was lying during that whole period. I appreciate that stuff happens - but it's not really that hard to find out what that stuff is unless someone is hiding it.
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I'm not angry. I'm not screaming. But I did cancel my subscription. At this point, I would prefer the ebook to the physical copy. Paying a bit more to get the physical copy AND the digital was fine by me. Since that isn't an option... ah well...
I will get the ebooks and pick and choose the physical copies for my "collection." of course, the first book IS a Dave Gross Jeggare book. And because it is, I find out this....
I ordered the physical copy at Amazon for $11.24 (25% off the cover or $3.75 cheaper). Then I returned later to check something (the spelling of "Jeggare") and guess what I see? Rather than going to the page for the physical copy, I went to the ebook page. And since I've purchased the dead-tree edition, I can now order the digital copy for $2.99 under something called "Book Match."
In other words, the physical and the digital versions for roughly the price of the physical copy alone.