Hey everyone!
I know there's been a lot of stuff over the years on how to build the best grappler, but with new material coming out all the time I thought I should see who the top contenders are.
Is it the Lore Warden? The Strength Surge Barbarian? Maneuver Master Monk? Or a multi-class combo of the above? You decide, Paizo forums!
Feel free to post multiple builds, especially if they have other advantages like versatility, saves, or damage output. But their go to strategy should involve hugging enemies into submission.
Tetori has got to make the list. Not sure if it tops it or not, but it's definitely on there!
I haven't had a chance to try this myself, but I think you want Tetori Monk . . . (Ninja'd!)
Yeah, I had a feeling that would make the list. I wasn't sure if it could get the raw numbers of the Barbarian though, or the attempts per round of the maneuver master. Also, what else would one take for the Tetori? Grabbing style?
EDIT: I should add the action economy of grapple is very confusing to me, especially since there are so many feats and rules and class features which modify it.
I think it depends on who you are trying to grapple. Barbarian might be best against other martials, but Tetori has the advantage of shutting down caster's like no one's business.
Swallow whole eidolon gives the best hugs.
They're just warm and sticky because they're mouth hugs...
Then they can hug all of you at once.
Sorry, thats all I could think of when you said competitive hugging because of this
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Hyperfocused: Tetori
Focused but flexible: Brutal Pugilist or Feral Gnasher (can use martial weapons), Lorewarden (feats to spare), Maneuver Master
Extremely flexible: Strangler Brawler--martial flex into feats to make your grappling better or if you face a foe that you cannot or would rather not grapple, you flex into feats to bolster yourself for that battle
Once you pick up Anaconda's Coils, Final Embrace, Rapid Grapple and Pinning KO, it's all academic when it comes down to DPS...you'll be crushing and killing things handily.
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I hear the best grappling build is a Succubi... with the Grappling feats. Actually, they're almost like, MADE for "Competative Hugging", now that I think about it.
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um.... kinda old... but Dwarven Battle Rager? Thimble Dorf Pwent all the way!
A straight-up Druid can be a pretty fearsome grappler. Any gigantic animal form with Grab, especially combined with Powerful Shape, will be pretty well-equipped to grapple the vast majority of foes.
Plus, you get to hug them to death as a big fuzzy cat or something!
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easy and straightforward with a lot of tools to help the grappler: Tetori Monk
They have cool abilities that can shut off magical grapple defense.
The best Grappler tho would have to be a monstrosity multiclass. There are better builds and some builds who use hair instead of tentacles. But here is one of my multiclass monstrosities and One by Scott Whilhelm from a earlier post.
1HD Slayer 1: Power attack and Improved Grapple
2HD Slayer 1/MoMS Monk 1: Snake style
3HD Slayer 1/ Monk 2: Snake Fang, Combat reflexes
4HD Slayer 1/ Monk 2/ Vivisectionist Alchemist 1: Sneak attack 1d6
5HD Slayer 1/ Monk 2/ Alchemist 2: Monastic Legacy, Discovery-Tentacle
6HD Slayer 1/ monk 2/ Alchemist 3: Sneak attack 2d6
7HD Slayer 2/ Monk 2/ Alchemist 3: Weapon focus Tentacle, Improved Natural attack Tentacle
8HD Slayer 2/ Monk 2/ Alchemist 3/ Strangler Brawler 1: Sneak attack 3d6
9HD Slayer 2/ Monk 2/ Alchemist 3/ Brawler 2: Feral combat training, Greater grapple, Sneak attack 4d6
10HD Slayer 2/ Monk 2/ Alchemist 4/ Brawler 2: Discovery Tumor Familiar King Crab (+2 Grapple)
11HD- Slayer 2/ Monk 2/ Alchemist 4/ Brawler 3: Potion glutton, +1 Grapple
I opted out of tie up with a rope and cavalier levels but You could go in for 2 cavalier levels to get tie up. Ropes are weak sauce IMO tho as big nasty creatures can break most ropes.
Add Armbands of the Brawler (500gp), the Brawling Enchantment, Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver, and a Dusty rose prism Ioun stone inside a Wayfinder. As some equipment...you really want to push that grapple up as much as possible.
You're looking at over +40 to grapple after a chugged true strike and being buffed up.
Tengu with Claws
1Ranger1: Freebooter, Weapon Focus Claws
2R1Monk1: Master of Many Styles, Snake Style
This character will wear armor and use a shield. I could forgo the Claw Trait and work on the bite instead, since I can't claw with my shield arm, and then I could use a Bastard Sword sometimes, and that would be a solid choice. But I'm hoping this character will eventually acquire a Wand of Monstrous Physique and polymorph into a 4 armed Sahaugin with extra claw attacks. Meanwile, I have a method for developing all the natural attacks I can get. If I want to, I can drop the shield anyway, perhaps carrying a longbow for when the enemy is out of reach and clawing/biting/beating when they close in.
3R2M2: Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes
Crosswinds, MOMS totally lets you skip Snake Sidewind.
MOMS, Bonus Feat wrote:
Alternatively, a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style). The master of many styles does not need to meet any other prerequisite of the feat in the style’s feat path.
Meanwhile being able to use a shield secures those extra Attacks of Opportunity. She will have a Dex of 16, so I'm losing 1 attack/round for the shield, but I'm gaining 4.
4R1M2F1: Feral Combat Training, Claws
5R1M3F1: Monastic Legacy, Maneuver Training
6R2M3F1: Improved Natural Weapon Claws
So now the Claw attacks do 2d6, and I get to use my claws to make those Attacks of opportunity.
7R2M3F1Alchemist1: Improved Grapple, Mutagen
I disagree with Crosswinds assessment that Panther Claw and Snake Fang have no synergy in most cases, but they don't have synergy, here. I like the Dex Mutagen because I think the extra Attacks of Opportunity granted via Combat Reflexes leads to a higher DPR than the Strength Mutagen does. But you gain Dex at the Cost of Wisdom, and Panther Claw builds on Wisdom. And that's the opposite of synergy.
8R2M3F1A1White Haired Witch1
9R2M3F1A1W2: Final Embrace
Level 2 White Hair has Constrict, and that is the prerequisite for the Final Embrace Feat. With Final Embrace, the Hair, the Bite, The Claws, and the Monk Unarmed Strike all get Grab and Constrict. Constrict damage = the Claw Damage, and she will wear Armor Spikes and do Armor Spike damage with every hit. Her DPR will be outrageous.
10R2M3F2A1W2: Greater Grapple, Coordinated Maneuvers
11R2M3F2A1W2Cavalier1: Potion Glutton, Expert Captor
With Improved and Greater grapple increase the Grapple Mod, which helps with those Grabs and Constricts, of course. But if you have Greater Grapple and Expert Captor, you can Initiate a Grapple and Tie up your opponent in 1 round! Potion Glutton allows you to drink any potable, you know, like an Alchemal Extract of True Strike, as a Swift action. So on round 1 you can use a Wand of True Strike on yourself and close with your opponent. On round 2 you can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action, pop your Extract as a Swift Action, and Tie Up your opponent as a Move Action, both with a +20 from True Strike. And there are plenty of ways to pump up your Grapple Mod Quite High.
12R2M3F2A2W2C1: King Crab Tumor Famililiar
I have been wanting to try this. Have my Tumor Familiar take a Potion of Shield Other then meld with me. It would take half my damage, and it would enjoy Fast Healing 5.
The sheer craziness of the builds put out crazy to grapple numbers.
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A Half-Elf Oracle of Battle can use their FCB with Maneuver Master to effectively have BAB+50% for grappling. They can also cast Divine Favor and Enlarge Person. If using the Ancient Elven Lorekeeper archetype, they can grab Animal Aspect for a big ol' set of Hairy Gorilla Arms of Grappling +4, as well as all sorts of other fun possibilities, like Monstrous Physique.
I've had an idea floating around for a murderous weapon-grappler like this, eventually using one level of Maneuver Master and Grabbing Style to make a free snatch before working someone over with a sword or axe.
^That's assuming you let a Half-Elf take the Elf FCB (and the Elven Ancient Lorekeeper archetype, if also doing that). Elf would work for sure, but Constitution penalty hurts.
Listen to Bruno. Bruno is the foreman of Grappler's Union.
Tetori has a couple of devastating advantages: they get Grab at 8th level and can suppress Freedom of Movement at 9th level. But, like Bruno said, it's a very focused build. On the plus side, you don't need any buffs, really: at 7th level, my halfling Tetori has an unbuffed, walking-around +18 CMB/+38 CMD for grappling, with only two magic items total (armbands of the brawler and a headband of wisdom +2).
As far as maneuver master, it depends on your GM. You might not be able to "flurry" with a grapple since you can't substitute grappling for a normal attack like you can with trip, disarm, etc. Many GMs interpret this to mean that you can full attack and make exactly one maneuver, so you only get one grapple check per round. Maintain might be a separate standard action or a move action (with greater grapple), so you might not be able to take advantage of the full attack option that maneuver master gives you. Again, talk that through with your GM before you decide.
Another thing to remember about the maneuver master is that you still take all the penalties for being grappled and you lose your dex bonus to AC when pinning a creature (Tetori don't after 4th level). I think the Grabbing Style feat will help with that, and it lets you grapple with one hand without taking the -4 penalty.
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The worship of Falayna is a boon to any grappler.
Getting a Brawling Armor enchantment is also highly desired.
If you have access to a familiar, the King Crab will share the strength of it's pincers with you.
Grabbing Style lets you grapple with one hand at no penalty, which will let you use a dan bong as intended even if you have to deal with strict RAW.
^That's assuming you let a Half-Elf take the Elf FCB (and the Elven Ancient Lorekeeper archetype, if also doing that).
Half-Elves get to use Elven FCB and Archetype by FAQ. It's also possible to use Spirit Guide to grab a couple 1-2 level arcane spells easily enough, or just take the natural Enlarge Person and not grab more arcane stuff.
As far as maneuver master... you only get one grapple check per round.
Yep, a full Maneuver Master is a pretty lousy prospect for pure grappling, but one level can be a great boon for a casual grappler. I'm not sure this is exactly the 'hugging into submission' that the OP meant, but along the lines of the weapon-grapple thing I mentioned, Hamatula Strike and Maneuver Master is pretty... well I want to say 'funny' but maybe that's not the word for it. Charge-Stab-(+Grapple) -> (+Pin)-Stab-Stab-Stab -> (+tie u... oh wait nevermind).
If your hugs are unwelcome and you don't care about sustainable hugging...
Redirect Force (Ex) If the ninja has a feat that allows her to attempt a combat maneuver without provoking attacks of opportunity, she can choose to provoke them anyway when she performs that maneuver. If she does so and takes damage from the attack of opportunity, the ninja adds the damage as a bonus on her attack roll instead of as a penalty
Druid Monk mix is probably the best build for delivering hugs.
Brutal pugilist barbarian with a two level strangler dip?
^That's assuming you let a Half-Elf take the Elf FCB (and the Elven Ancient Lorekeeper archetype, if also doing that).
Half-Elves get to use Elven FCB and Archetype by FAQ. It's also possible to use Spirit Guide to grab a couple 1-2 level arcane spells easily enough, or just take the natural Enlarge Person and not grab more arcane stuff.
{. . .}
I thought this was yes by FAQ but no by PFS.
Druid Monk mix is probably the best build for delivering hugs.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Way of the Angry Bear (and link to Discussion thread that I haven't read yet).
I like the Aberrant bloodline primalist bloodrager with With IUS and imp grabble at level 1, tumor familiar at 3(King crab), abnormall reach at level 4, at 5 pehaps you take turtle style. At 6 you retrain imp grabble for greater and get imp as abonus feat(some GMs May not like that) as a bonus feat, at 7 you get the next turtle style feat. And at 8 you get 2 rage powers, among them strength surge. 7 is also the level where your Spell support with things like Extreme flexibility and animal aspekt gorilla allow you to run away from the other kids for Real. And you get anaconda coils and final embrace as soon as possiblealso if it delays the style protect.
This guy will have the longest most happy love hungry arms in the game.