I think it sounds ridiculous every time this gets suggested, and it gets suggested a lot. I never understood the appeal.
As a GM, I would never let it fly--if you're in a backpack, you are stuff, not able to take actions.
Just buy a riding dog.
A lot of DMs will give you a bunch of grief if you attempt this with two PCs. My suggestion is to take a slightly different approach and either have your backpack buddy be a familiar or make your PC a Summoner and legitimately ride your eidolon as a mount (with the Mount evolution)
Master Blaster!
I don't understand why people say "Master Blaster" every time this topic comes up--you didn't ride another character in that game, you rode a little tank thing, unless I always misinterpreted the sprites...?
Regardless, because people mention it every time someone brings up the idea, you can pretty easily search for previous threads on the subject. For example:
Can an Eidolon carry you in a backpack?
Riding a Biped
Small characters sitting on medium character's shoulders?
i'd just rule it as if the small guy was riding but would not allow the mounted combat feat to take effect
This is the rules forum not the advice forum. If you wanted ideas on how to make your concept viable you should have posted in advice.
In this forum everyone should do their best to discuss the rules as they apply.
This topic has come up several times before, and mplindustries seems to have covered that.
The short of it, is that mechanically it's a bad once you get through all the mechanics and figure everything out.
The game is not designed to work well with this sort of mechanic.
|
@mplindustries
It's a reference to a movie, Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome. It's a post-apocalyptic film, and in a place called Bartertown a height-challenged engineer rides atop a large brute with the mind of a three year old. The small guy was named Master, and the big dumb guy was named Blaster. Master Blaster.
Myself I see it as if that's what the players want to try then let's go for it. Then again I played with a group years ago where my minotaur use to fastball special our gnome half-dragon into combat. Still if your group and GM is up for it I would use mounted combat rules and the rider's weight and gear would count toward encumbering the carrier and I might even impose some sort of minor penalty such as a -2 to his attack or something because unlike a backpack a living being would be moving around and such at the same time he was.
Now if this small creature got a permanent reduce person cast on them it would change things again same if the medium has permanent enlarge person cast on them. Regardless I would try and come up with some sort of rules to make it fun and work.
Maybe even let them each spend a feat for a custom teamwork feat to remove the penalties for doing so.
Just my copper's worth
|
Master Blaster!I don't understand why people say "Master Blaster" every time this topic comes up--you didn't ride another character in that game, you rode a little tank thing, unless I always misinterpreted the sprites...?
It a reference to the Master Blaster character in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.
The trick to make this work is not to wear a backpack, but to wear an exotic saddle. This will take up the belt slot on the character being the "mount".
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Small creatures are much larger then the backpack allows. A halfling/ gnome is roughly the size of an adolescent kid 12-14 years old, you dont carry an adolescent kid that age in a backpack like its nothing.
A small creature can ride a medium creature, if the medium creature has the right physique, humanoids are nto suitable for riding vecause they stand upright, if the half ork would agree to stand on all fours and crawl everywhere hten this would be possible, but I doubt he'dd want to reduce his speed to 5-10ft per round and take a -4 penalty on AC abd attacks right?
This is, however, possible if the halfling casts something on himself to turn into a tiny creature (reduce person). In this case be upfront about the tactic and mention the downsides along with the upsides, this way the GM is much more likely to allow it.
A riding creature must make concentration checks to cast spells, this would also apply to someone riding in the backpack of an angry half-orc swinging a weapon in melee, also remember that if the "mount" moves so far or takes certain strenuous actions the rider cannot do anythign but hold on for dear life.
The "rider" could for example not cast spells if the "mount" is running.
Because a humanoid makes a lot of sideways swinging and movement while fighting (as opposed to 4 legged creatures that attack with their forelegs while the aft-section remains relatively still) you can probably not cast during a full attack either
This thread brought back some arcade memories of the dwarf from Golden Axe getting carried around in a backpack by some big guy with an axe. After looking around online a little I confirmed that was from a game called Death Adder's Revenge and saw a picture which reminded me that one of the other characters you could play was a female centaur with a quarterstaff.
As for rules which might be useful here:
"If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks."
Considering the fact that there's also a -5 penalty for not using a saddle you could be in for a pretty rough ride. I also probably wouldn't allow you to use the Mounted Combat feat to defend a character you're riding with a Ride check. I also wouldn't allow this for another intelligent creature like an eidolon unless it had the Mount evolution. This would probably come up more often when somebody attempts to ride a wildshaped Druid. I'm not sure if there's any RAW covering this, but I'd expect DMs to react negatively if you try it.
You need to make a Ride check to attack when your mount attacks.
Darn, did you create this thread just so you could criticize those who posted in it? I was posting stuff from the rules which seemed like it might be relevant for one PC riding around on another, but I'll cut it out!
Maybe the Half-Orc can be a Gorilla, as Animal Companion? That would simplify the situation somewhat.
At least some of this is covered in the rules I would say...
Under the magic section under concentration checks and casting spells.
First, you can't be covered as you wouldn't have line of sight to your target etc, so you would have to be exposed.
Second, At the very least you would have to make a concentration check for every spell cast @ 10 -20 + spell level depending on the actions being taken by the person who you are riding/who is carrying you.
Third, if you are actually in a harness which impairs your ability to move freely (as judged by your GM) a second concentration check with entangled being the closest to this condition so @ 15 + spell level.
Of course if 3rd party stuff is allowed, you could take the mounted caster feat
I too enjoyed Banjo Kazooie.
As odd as this concept may sound, it's reasonably prevalent in media. So I'd set aside all "That's dumb/silly/weird" comments myself.
For another source of appeal, also see WarCraft III/TFT's Goblin Alchemist -- a Goblin riding on an Ogre. Admittedly, this duo does look notably ridiculous when making melee attacks. Also, Ogres are Large, thus partially alleviating the unsuitable mount problem.
Alternatively, the mount could be a Centaur or similar creature, which would alleviate the unsuitable mount problem completely, but is still Large, but in exchange has the Undersized Weapons special quality (has to use weapons for Medium creatures to avoid penalties for using wrong-sized weaopns).
As for riders of Humanoids not being able to take actions, an awful lot of people (and some guides) have Familiars sitting on their masters and performing actions (usually Use Magic Device, but in some cases using a Spell-Like Ability).
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I GMd for years for a tag team pair who did this. It worked great, and we encountered no problems. These are some of the things they did to make it work:
* The small PC was a small pixie fairy. So very small. I'd have a problem with this if the small PC was much taller than 2', unless the brute was also commensurately large.
* Special custom backpack & box for small one. The backpack looked normal, but the upper part actually held a custom built comfy box for the pixie fairy.
* The custom pixie box was made of thin metal, lined with cloth, and was fairly heavy. The brute had no trouble carrying it, though. The box had windows, an upper door, and a lower escape hatch. The windows artfully matched little viewing slits in the backpack.
* The small one didn't stay in the box all the time. The box was for when danger was near.
* We ruled that the pixie was quite vulnerable in melee once a foe knew it was there. +4 AC for being in the box but no DEX bonuses. The pixie mostly used spells that did not reveal her presence, so was very rarely attacked. That's why it worked so well for the duo.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
save a horse
ride a druid
|
...can't be done without homebrew rules...Yes, thats what I am trying to do here.. want to contribute something?
Apologies for my demeanor, I see this same question very frequently and it gets old after a while. It's not your fault.
If that is truly what you are trying to do then you would be best to ask this on the Homebrew forum. Not trying to be rude here, but the Rules Questions and Homebrew forums are really well named.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiSH-s0_2Mg
Sorry.
I played in a campaign where the gnome cleric was carried in the half-orc pack. I honestly don't remember the character casting many spells beyond healing to help the tank of the group. I think if he cast anything beyond that he was out of the pack.
I belive it was mostly for the novelty, as well as not slowing the party down by a character with a lower walking speed. But that was about 15 years ago.