I'd agree that it doesn't impact knowing what I wants, a lack of empathy would definitely effect how I think about and to treat others others which could effect alignment, and I also think it would effect you ability to communicate with such a low score (though indirectly).
I'm not going to rp the empathy part so that's moot, but to explain how I see the communication issue:
You have a person whose growth is so stunted that they don't know how things around them should impact them or how to communicate it to impact others and while trying to intellectually figure out an appropriate response the conversation has long since moved to something else. This manifest itself in her just kind of standing there while people are talking with a dumb look.
So I'll be like the village idiot from werewolf, that could be fun.
The reason I said no empathy is because that is what is on the srd under chr 4-5 "no awareness of the needs of others, almost 0 empathy"
*edit I do agree with you that wisdom seems the more empathy stat, and will likely play it that way. It seems more fun not being a sociopath.
Looking at the ability scores on the srd makes me think I actually should be more like oramfay said. A 4-5 means you have no empathy, 2-3 means you make minimal independent decisions. Akin to a spider or rhino.
I'm agreeing that my I character would understand and know as much as ever, but would become extremely unresponsive in social situations. Lacking empathy I suppose she would become far more selfish and rather unconcerned about anyone else. Seems allot more evil :/
It's a homebrew curse. It effected everyone who damaged the bbeg and me even though I only spell sundered is ability to fly...
But that's neither here nor there.
When it happened I pretty much stopped functioning socially and kind of glanced with an awkward smile and chuckle when people were deciding what to do or asked me things. It's just such a low stat that I want sure how to *be* it, if that makes sense
So I play my characters based on their stats. My barbarian had 8 charisma and last session for hit with a death curse that gave me -6 charisma and boils.
I don't know how to play a character with 2 charisma, what does that even look like?
Also, could it be spell sundered?
The Defiler: This debuff build is focused on piling on negative effects and rendering every target as harmless and easy to kill as possible. This is a Melee effective option that is fully developed by 7th level with everything after that making it more destructive.
With a 20pt buy the best race option I can think of is Human
STR 13 DEX 14 CON 14 WIS 10 INT 18 CHA 7
Note: A 2 level dip in White Haired Witch is needed to REALLY up the Debuffs and action Economy on this build.
Traits: Magical Lineage (Frostbite), Wayang Spellhunter (Frigid Touch)
Why it's good:
At 7th level a prepared Defiler can inflict Grappled, Staggered, Fatigued, Entangled, Prone and Shaken onto a target with a single standard action. If he decides to make a full action he can also add Blind to that target.
The bad:
It’s a dedicated melee build with lower HP’s than any other and has delayed getting access to Heavy armor until 15th level.
How it works:
This build hinges around using your Hair natural attack for ALL your attack actions. As your only natural attack it is always at Full Bab and does 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls. Since you use your Intelligence bonus in place of strength every time you boost your Int you boost your melee to-hit and damage. Taking two levels of Witch grants three important benefits.
1. An always on Natural attack that can never be sundered, disarmed or stolen.
2. A superior Grab ability that naturally doesn’t make you grappled while you are grappling (everyone else has to take a -20 on each grapple check to get this)
3. A Constrict ability that is based off your Intelligence and works with Power Attack.
Now this is a de-buff build so our go to spells are Frostbite (rimed) and Frigid Touch mixed with Power Attack and Cornugon Smash all channeled through 4 different combat maneuvers (Sunder, Trip, Dirty Trick & Disarm).
Note: All combat maneuvers are attack rolls, anything that is activated by a successful hit are activated by a successful combat maneuver as well.
Combat begins by activating your Prehensile Hair and using your arcane pool to get the +attack on it as high as you can and moving into position to respond to any AoO provoking action. At your first chance Spellstrike a Rimmed Frostbite and attempt a combat maneuver (Trip or Dirty Trick is best) on a target 10’ away (try to always power attack this if you can).
(This will be at full Bab + Int Bonus +Arcane pool Bonus +Arcane Accuracy Bonus -Power attack Penalty vs. targets CMD)
If successful this will trip the target, and inflict the Fatigued, Prone and Entangled condition as well as 1D6+your Magus level non-lethal damage.
(Prone is -4 to attacks and CMD, Fatigue is -2 to Dex and Str for another -2 to attacks and CMD, Entangled is another -2 to attacks and -4 to Dex for another -2 to attacks and a concentration check to cast spells. Total = -6 to Dex, -2 to Str for a -4 to attacks, -8 CMD, -3 to AC)
This also triggers your Grab ability so now make a Grapple check against their CMD -8. If you succeed then move them to any square adjacent to you (automatic action) and inflict Constrict Damage against the target. (1D4 + 1.5x Int modifier + Power attack Bonus). This will also activate your Cornugon Smash Feat so also make an Intimidate check now to demoralize them to inflict the Shaken Condition.
(Adding the Grapple condition reduces Dex by an additional -4, Attack rolls and Combat Maneuvers by 2, and adds another concentration check to cast, Shaken reduces attacks, saves, skill checks and ability checks by 2 more. Total = -10 to Dex, -2 to Str, -10 to attacks, -2 to saves, skill checks and ability checks and requires 2 Concentration checks to cast a spell)
All of this is done with a single standard action. If you decide to use Spell combat all of the above will happen with the addition at the end to cast an additional spell (which will end the charges from Frostbite), we usually use a Frigid touch spell to inflict 4D6 damage and the staggered condition (it is recommended to either use a Metamagic on this, either Rime, Sickened or Empower).
All together the target should be Prone, Fatigued, Entangled, Grappled, Shaken, Staggered and Flanked. At higher levels you can add Sickened and Blind as well.
A Defiler should invest in an Amulet of Mighty Fist:Spell Storing (not needed but truly worth it) and keep either a Blindness, Rimed Frigid Touch or Bestow Curse in it at all times with Blindness being the most effective.
With this build raising your Int as high as you can is paramount since it powers ALL of your combat ability (attacks, damage, CMB, etc) followed by either your Dex (for more AoO’s, and reflex saves) or Con (to absorb all the damage that will be thrown your way the first time you use this trick). Keep your Intimidate as high as you can (class skill from your Witch dip), and get as many +hit bonuses as possible to make sure you can always succeed on your Combat Maneuvers.
If you would like to do more damage while doing this, always remember releasing a target from a grapple is a free action and the spell from spell combat can go after all your normal attacks. So after the steps above release the target and do a normal attack with the hair triggering everything again for more damage, THEN do the spell combat for the Frigid touch spell for a third touch attack (this requires you to have pre-cast the Frostbite in a previous round).
Sleeping in Armor: A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He takes a –2 penalty on Str and Dex and can't charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue.
So if you fail your check against a sleep spell... you are fatigued the next day. How rude.
I found this a while back when looking for something similar, I just didn't want to keep up with all the negatives that hit and missed every round so I went another route.
hexcrafter by STR ranger:
The Defiler: This debuff build is focused on piling on negative effects and rendering every target as harmless and easy to kill as possible. This is a Melee effective option that is fully developed by 7th level with everything after that making it more destructive.
With a 20pt buy the best race option I can think of is Human
STR 13 DEX 14 CON 14 WIS 10 INT 18 CHA 7
Note: A 2 level dip in White Haired Witch is needed to REALLY up the Debuffs and action Economy on this build.
Traits: Magical Lineage (Frostbite), Wayang Spellhunter (Frigid Touch)
Why it's good:
At 7th level a prepared Defiler can inflict Grappled, Staggered, Fatigued, Entangled, Prone and Shaken onto a target with a single standard action. If he decides to make a full action he can also add Blind to that target.
The bad:
It’s a dedicated melee build with lower HP’s than any other and has delayed getting access to Heavy armor until 15th level.
How it works:
This build hinges around using your Hair natural attack for ALL your attack actions. As your only natural attack it is always at Full Bab and does 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls. Since you use your Intelligence bonus in place of strength every time you boost your Int you boost your melee to-hit and damage. Taking two levels of Witch grants three important benefits.
1. An always on Natural attack that can never be sundered, disarmed or stolen.
2. A superior Grab ability that naturally doesn’t make you grappled while you are grappling (everyone else has to take a -20 on each grapple check to get this)
3. A Constrict ability that is based off your Intelligence and works with Power Attack.
Now this is a de-buff build so our go to spells are Frostbite (rimed) and Frigid Touch mixed with Power Attack and Cornugon Smash all channeled through 4 different combat maneuvers (Sunder, Trip, Dirty Trick & Disarm).
Note: All combat maneuvers are attack rolls, anything that is activated by a successful hit are activated by a successful combat maneuver as well.
Combat begins by activating your Prehensile Hair and using your arcane pool to get the +attack on it as high as you can and moving into position to respond to any AoO provoking action. At your first chance Spellstrike a Rimmed Frostbite and attempt a combat maneuver (Trip or Dirty Trick is best) on a target 10’ away (try to always power attack this if you can).
(This will be at full Bab + Int Bonus +Arcane pool Bonus +Arcane Accuracy Bonus -Power attack Penalty vs. targets CMD)
If successful this will trip the target, and inflict the Fatigued, Prone and Entangled condition as well as 1D6+your Magus level non-lethal damage.
(Prone is -4 to attacks and CMD, Fatigue is -2 to Dex and Str for another -2 to attacks and CMD, Entangled is another -2 to attacks and -4 to Dex for another -2 to attacks and a concentration check to cast spells. Total = -6 to Dex, -2 to Str for a -4 to attacks, -8 CMD, -3 to AC)
This also triggers your Grab ability so now make a Grapple check against their CMD -8. If you succeed then move them to any square adjacent to you (automatic action) and inflict Constrict Damage against the target. (1D4 + 1.5x Int modifier + Power attack Bonus). This will also activate your Cornugon Smash Feat so also make an Intimidate check now to demoralize them to inflict the Shaken Condition.
(Adding the Grapple condition reduces Dex by an additional -4, Attack rolls and Combat Maneuvers by 2, and adds another concentration check to cast, Shaken reduces attacks, saves, skill checks and ability checks by 2 more. Total = -10 to Dex, -2 to Str, -10 to attacks, -2 to saves, skill checks and ability checks and requires 2 Concentration checks to cast a spell)
All of this is done with a single standard action. If you decide to use Spell combat all of the above will happen with the addition at the end to cast an additional spell (which will end the charges from Frostbite), we usually use a Frigid touch spell to inflict 4D6 damage and the staggered condition (it is recommended to either use a Metamagic on this, either Rime, Sickened or Empower).
All together the target should be Prone, Fatigued, Entangled, Grappled, Shaken, Staggered and Flanked. At higher levels you can add Sickened and Blind as well.
A Defiler should invest in an Amulet of Mighty Fist:Spell Storing (not needed but truly worth it) and keep either a Blindness, Rimed Frigid Touch or Bestow Curse in it at all times with Blindness being the most effective.
With this build raising your Int as high as you can is paramount since it powers ALL of your combat ability (attacks, damage, CMB, etc) followed by either your Dex (for more AoO’s, and reflex saves) or Con (to absorb all the damage that will be thrown your way the first time you use this trick). Keep your Intimidate as high as you can (class skill from your Witch dip), and get as many +hit bonuses as possible to make sure you can always succeed on your Combat Maneuvers.
If you would like to do more damage while doing this, always remember releasing a target from a grapple is a free action and the spell from spell combat can go after all your normal attacks. So after the steps above release the target and do a normal attack with the hair triggering everything again for more damage, THEN do the spell combat for the Frigid touch spell for a third touch attack (this requires you to have pre-cast the Frostbite in a previous round).
Depending on the writing, I think it could be done. Taking the magic out would be easy enough but writing a story for multiple people with no combat could be tough. Im Thinking lots of intrigue and political strife but... I guess I'd ask him what he watches/does for entertainment and try to draw ideas for the game from there.
A rod of wonder is a strange and unpredictable device that randomly generates any number of weird effects each time it is used. Activating the rod is a standard action. Typical powers of the rod include the following.
d% Wondrous Effect
01—05 Target affected by slow for 10 rounds (Will DC 15 negates).
06—10 Faerie fire surrounds the target.
11—15 Deludes the wielder for 1 round into believing the rod functions as indicated by a second die roll (no save).
16—20 Gust of wind, but at windstorm force (Fortitude DC 14 negates).
21—25 Wielder learns the target's surface thoughts (as with detect thoughts) for 1d4 rounds (no save).
26—30 Stinking cloud appears at 30-foot range (Fortitude DC 15 negates).
31—33 Heavy rain falls for 1 round in 60-foot radius centered on the rod wielder.
34—36 Summons an animal—a rhino (01—25 on d%), elephant (26—50), or mouse (51—100).
37—46 Lightning bolt (70 foot long, 5 foot wide), 6d6 points of damage (Reflex DC 15 half).
47—49 A stream of 600 large butterflies pours forth and flutters around for 2 rounds, blinding everyone within 25 foot (Reflex DC 14 negates).
50—53 Target is affected by enlarge person if within 60 feet of rod (Fortitude DC 13 negates).
54—58 Darkness, 30-foot-diameter hemisphere, centered 30 feet away from rod.
59—62 Grass grows in 160-square-foot area before the rod, or grass existing there grows to 10 times its normal size.
63—65 Any nonliving object of up to 1,000 pounds of mass and up to 30 cubic feet in size turns ethereal.
66—69 Reduce wielder two size categories (no save) for 1 day.
70—79 Fireball at target or 100 feet straight ahead, 6d6 points of damage (Reflex DC 15 half).
80—84 Invisibility covers the rod's wielder.
85—87 Leaves grow from the target if within 60 feet of the rod. These last 24 hours.
88—90 10—40 gems, value 1 gp each, shoot forth in a 30-foot-long stream. Each gem deals 1 point of damage to any creature in its path: roll 5d4 for the number of hits and divide them among the available targets.
91—95 Shimmering colors dance and play over a 40-foot-by-30-foot area in front of rod. Creatures therein are blinded for 1d6 rounds (Fortitude DC 15 negates).
96—97 Wielder (50% chance) or the target (50% chance) turns permanently blue, green, or purple (no save).
98—100 Flesh to stone (or stone to flesh if the target is stone already) if the target is within 60 feet (Fortitude DC 18 negates).
Because I see several death/death-like effects which are likely to cost you all of your followers LONG before they make you rich. With the amount of people that you are killing/incapacitating hoping to roll 88-90 your cohort will probably abandon you too. Flesh to stone, fireball, and lightning bolt are outright killing followers and you are three times as likely to get that instead of gems (which could also kill a follower).
That said (and to stay on topic) just ask him and when he looks it up I'm sure he will say yes (unless I'm missing something).
Make up your own spell mechanic for those classes. Instead of wizards forgetting their spells once cast have them cast directly from the book. The book itself is magical and the spells draw magic from the wizard and the book. He needs the book in hand to cast spells and once cast that spell (slot) is tapped out for the day.
In the end the wizard is the same as it is now with different flavor and the requirement of holding the book. To offset the drawback you could have it so that the book cover could be enhanced to add metamagic to a spell x times per day. You could also make it so that prepared(book) casters automatically have still spell because they need the book in hand and it's doing part of the work. Its more dangerous and open to sundering I suppose, but you aren't losing so many classes.
A magus would look cool with his sword in one hand and book in the other.
Felling smash seems great but I don't have the int required. If I'm planning on having superior reach most of the time could I use "Stand Still" to stop opponents from getting within range to attack me?
say I have a reach weapon (10 ft), Reach evolution (+5 ft), lunge (+5ft), enlarge (+5ft), One natural weapon...say bite or claws would allow me to threaten from adjacent out to 25ft away?
Actually would the push evolution accomplish the same thing? If the opponent attempts to move adjacent and I hit him and succeed in pushing him back can he use the rest of his movement to close in anyway?
I assume that if he charged and he got pushed back he wouldn't have any movement left to use but on a regular move + attack he would so stand still would be superior unless the enemy is charging.
Also The lucerne hammer has the brace special property. If I ready an action to brace and the opponent charges I still get the readied action and also an AOO if once they move closer, correct?
A=me, B=enemy
If he is charging I would get the brace here:
AxxxxxB
and AOO here
AxxxxB
Is the goal that you will kind of flit around the battlefield, doing fly by attacks on people who will then be unable to close with you and do damage?
Yes that is pretty much the gist of it; flyby dirty tricks, vital strikes, painful smiting.
The things is I'm uncomfortable in melee. We are level three and so far in the last two combats I got one shot (knocked from full to unconscious by a critical hit) by a big monster, then later in another fight put to half health in one hit (crit again) in addition to two necessary saves vs effects. I figure if I stick and move I will look less tasty.
Quote:
The other problem is that 11th level monsters are pretty mobile. Is there somebody on your team who would pin them in place? If so, why do you need to fly by instead of, e.g., flanking? Traditionally I would actually expect the barbarian to be in the pin down role, culminating with Come and Get Me at 12
The party is pretty much all brawn. Paladin,bloodrager,bard?,fighter,me. I figure if I go this route I can always find the most advantageous position. With perfect maneuverability I could fly, attack, then end behind the bloodrager which has blur and displacement and nothing is going to want to take an AOO from both of us.
Quote:
Although dirty trick is one of the best combat maneuvers as it stays relevant among the longest, there are still two problems. 1 costs lots of feats to be really good, 2 takes your standard action. If you can both vital strike and dirty trick at the same time somehow then it is a great ability. Otherwise just vital strike.
True enough and a good point out. I would probably use dirty trick to distract/blind an enemy when someone is in trouble otherwise just vital strike
Do be aware though that unlike Spring Attack, Flyby Attack doesn't prevent attacks of opportunity.
Thank you for pointing that out. I've been looking at the lunge feat so that I could attack from farther away so that I won't cause as many AOO's. Maybe I should switch out my feat at 5 for combat reflexes instead of weapon focus since I will have tremendous reach.
Benefit: When flying, the creature can take a move action and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack.
Normal: Without this feat, the creature takes a standard action either before or after its move.
vital strike:
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
attack action from the combat chapter:
Attack Action: An attack action is a type of standard action. Some combat options can modify only this specific sort of action. When taking an attack action, you can apply all appropriate options that modify an attack action. Thus, you can apply both Greater Weapon of the Chosen and Vital Strike to the same attack, as both modify your attack action. You can apply these to any combat option that takes the place of a melee attack made using an attack action (such as the trip combat maneuver), though options that increase damage don't cause attacks to deal damage if they wouldn't otherwise do so (such as Vital Strike and trip). You can't combine options that modify attack actions with standard actions that aren't attack actions, such as Cleave.
I'm not seeing the disconnect. Spring attack is a full round action whereas flyby attack is a standard action. The attack action is a type of standard action. I understand your viewpoint as they are both similar abilities, thank you for trying to help.
So you guys are doing a kind of "Build the adventure as it goes" campaign, sounds like fun.
The fight with the duelist can go two ways: Either he surrenders before killed and becomes a plot hook or he is so strong that the fighter can't win. In the latter scenario they fight until the fighter lands a hit and then he says that he was testing the group to see their capability.
He turns out to actually be "whatshisface," the head of their own guild. Now that he is satisfied with their strength he will let them in on a secret; A member of one of the dark guilds has infiltrated the guild/town/guard and they need someone that is lesser known to investigate.
or perhaps a member of a dark guild stole a relic from the guildhouse
or kidnapped princess Oscila (who, after much searching and bloodshed turns out to be the palace cat).
We have went deep into a archeologists dig with some of the archeologist. and found a cult of npcs that seem to worship flies won that fight and got out alive on their way there carriage gets hijacks nnd took into a cave were they are hung from a wall After getting free. The fighter Comes into contact with A pretty boy duelist.
So your party went on an archeologist dig(why?), got into a fight with some cultist and won. Then you left the area only to have your carriage attacked(by more cultists or someone else?) and you were all captured. You escaped but were captured again and hung to a wall? Then a duelist enters the area and approaches the fighter(who is still captured or who has broken free?)?
*edit or is it: After you got free the fighter comes into contact with a duelist?
I have a barbarian in a campaign and I am planning on mixing in some primal hunter for rp reasons.
character so far:
Human barbarian (invulnerable rager)
Level: 3 (we just hit level 4 at the end of last session)
Defensive stats:
AC: 18
HP: 37 Saves vs spells/spell-likes/SU
Fort: +5 / +9
Ref: +3 / +7
Will: +3/ +6
Offensive stats:
Lucerne Hammer(+1,furious w/power attack/rage): +11 1d12 +15
Thinking about buying a spiked gauntlet justin case.
(we are a bit over wealth by level)
Stats:
STR: 21 (with +2 racial and +2 belt)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 10
BAB: +3
CMB: +9 (sunder +16)
CMD: +20
Feats: Skill focus: Sunder, Extra rage power-strength surge, Power attack
Rage power: Superstitious
Skills: Intimidate 5, craft weapon (mostly for rp) 5, perception 7, sense motive, 7, spellcraft (for rp and spell sunder) 7
I'm planning on taking the first dip now (level 3 barb, level 4 divine/primal hunter) to go with the story. Then I plan to go barb until level 6 (barb 6/hunter1) and pick up spellsunder. From there hunter til 12 and unsure of what from then on, probably just hunter all the way.)
I am planning on using the evolutions for supernatural flight @cl 11, picking up the fly-by attack feat, vital strike chain and then using fly-by attacks on tougher enemies at higher level. My question is; is this viable? This is my first real melee character and the highest level character that I've ever had ended at 13ish (master summoner- mainly just did battlefield control and used SLA). Will being mobile help keep me alive?
Things love to crit on me so I was thinking that by using flyby attack I would be hit less (at least less full attacks). I'll have lead blades and can pick up enlarge person through a magical item. I guess I'm worried that I will still get wrecked often and ALSO be lackluster in combat instead of being a glass cannon which is what I am now.
Other questions: Are there other good "standard action" feats/abilities I should look at for the build?
Sorry for being very late answering but...
@secret wizard: while pure barbarian is great, there is a bloodrager in the party and our characters handle very similarly. Also there is no spellcaster in the party so I can't rely on them for spells. (party is barb, bloodrager, bard (not a helpful kind), paladin, fighter (or some other melee type...)
@Badbird: lead blades is a good spell for melee (until i get to level 3 when I can alternate that and spell strike/spell sunder) The idea isn't focused on using natural weapons, but to use those and other some evolutions to create a theme.
@fruian: I did go invulnerable-and I'm aiming toward spell sunder
Looking through the evolutions more I've been looking at skilled-intimidate, unnatural aura, and if I can pounce(-my pet had four legs?) or reach(-on my arms...?) but more likely scent or claws on my feet. I talked with my gm and he said that instead of 1 minute per day he would let me use it broken up while raging (so ten rounds per day while raging for each level dip).
If i had my sheet I would give my current build. I am currently a level 3 invulnerable barbarian. Stats are around 20 str 14 dex/con, 12 wis, 10 in the rest. Feats I think are power attack, improved sunder, extra rage(str surge), rage powers are superstition. My plan was to take witch hunter @ 4, weapon focus @5 (once I knew what weapon I was going to stick with), and sunder at 6.
I was originally going pure barbarian but the more I thought about it the more it felt like I was missing something from an RP perspective. Her parents were a summoner and an eidolon (though there was some massive magical tinkering that made that possible) so I wanted to add that into my character without weakening it too much.
If i go this route I would take Primal/divine hunter at 4 which would give me spells (lead blades), focus (with the above evolutions) then take barbarian @ 5, 6, and 7 (where I would pick up spell sunder) then hunter to at least 11. @ 9 I would have true strike on my spell list and massive bonuses to intimidate if i go with destruction-tortue domain. I'd have 5 evolution points so I could have shadow blend (free blur with restrctions) in addition to the others mentioned.I'd probably have that cloak that gives blur by this point so maybe ability increase instead. @ character level 11 I'd have supernatural flight as well and I can, as I level, change those evolutions to be more combat/rp as the campaign needs.
For comparison:
@ 11 pure barbarian I would have +2 BAB, greater rage (+2 extra strength), and pounce (beast totem claws are useless when 2 handing and AC is also). I would also have 2 less to saves (superstition) and 3 less DR.
@ 11 hybrid I could have spells, cleric domain, and I'd have 8 evolution points to stack on natural attacks or flavor abilities depending on how the campaign progresses. For instance; Bite, bite (=1+1/2 str to bite attack) can make up for the missing progression, 2 more points give flight, 2 more gives +2 strength leaving 2 points to bump flight to supernatural, +2 more strength, shadow form for blur effect, or +8 to a skill and reach on bite (if using a reach weapon of course).
I know @ 12 I don't get come and get me but I could get tremorsense, poison, or web (the latter two are CON based and web has a 50 st range) and eventually burrow/blindsense also.
Just give it skilled linguistics and you have an at will translator that speaks 8 more languages.
*broken*
edit-also skilled intimidate/diplomacy, slight of hand, perception, disable device
So I have this character who is a barbarian, mainly to spell sunder for story purposes. Her parent is an eidolon so I want her to have some eidolon like abilities. I'm debating between trying to get my gm to fluff some appearance stuff (eyes turing a different shape/color, skin pigmentation becoming unnatural, growing a small tail) and taking the gore/bite rage powers to simulate the change or just jumping in with both feet and going primal hunter from 7 on.
Primal hunter would add minutes per level of actual evolutions to make the change more real (was looking at starting with unnatural aura/tail/bite and as i level getting shadow blend/gore/skill focus(intimidate), celestial appearance to simulate awakening caused by what im calling omgea rage).
Barbarian has better BAB, saves (superstition), stronger strength surge, and powerful rage powers.
Hunter gives me a handful of spells (lead blades looks nice), cleric domain (probably luck to reroll sunder attempts, also get true strike on my spell list) and evolution points.
I've never made a fully martial character so I am leaning more toward the more magical hunter route but outside of "come and get me" and the above barbaian benefits im not sure what im missing out on.
What do you guys think?
*edit: I've also never really looked at domains. Would there be a better one for the above concept?
edit#2: the rage domain would progress my barbarian levels to a small degree as well...
Or feats?
Are there any feats that produce things like (that could be fluffed as) evolutions? They don't have to be specific, it's more for the character story than ability.
Ie. I kind of wanted to grow a tail or scales. The character was born human but it's mother was an eidolon (long story) so I want to tap into some latent eidolon-stuff even if it's just cosmetic. If be fine using a d100 for what happened kind of like that tiefling feat...
Just play the character who doesn't show up. First make them aware that if they don't show up you will gmpc their character and make them do gross/embarrassing stuff.
Seriously: I agree with healer or bard, something that is good regardless of party make up
I'd say if it's supposed to be for him as a destined warrior, then it should be tailored to his future self. What is his character going to be like in the future (ie how far does he have it planned)? I would give it passive abilities that boost his ninjas abilities such as; if he will use vanishing trick a lot when he is wielding his sword and under the effects of vanish caused by his class ability then he can not be seen even with true seeing and the like unless the person looking overcomes a check of some sort. Summoning something seems great for a bonus, I'd start it off as an illusion of a fire elemental to distract the enemy because that seems thematic, perhaps it threatens so that he can sneak attack (like the gnomish threatening illusion). Maybe he has to use ki or a short chant/prayer (it was given by a goddess). Maybe after a successful sneak attack he can use vanishing trick as a free action or something. If he sacrificed life he can restore a small amount of ki?
I don't know. Looking at the rules as written I have to agree with Cevah.
It says this functions as a primary natural attack with a reach of 5 ft. (stop) When you look at primary attacks:
srd wrote:
are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls.
Then it breaks down how much damage it does with an added bonus (the witch's intelligence modifier)
The end game BBEG is probably a high level spell caster. This seems like a good opportunity to introduce him/her to the party. Maybe she heard of this incredibly powerful guys and wants him as a mind controlled or gaes'd minion.
This is a homebrew which is kind of... a persistent/ evolving world with the same gm. My old character married his cohort, neither of which existed in the world until i created them, the town also didn't exist so he couldn't have had plans for them. It is possible that he read the backstory and was like "aha! this will be a cool idea" but the way that it was presented was "do whatever you want with this place" and then changed to "because *I* want you to play *this* character here is your new backstory, roleplay it." The problem I have with it is that you wasted my time and effort, destoryed my previous character by messing up the ending, because you wanted to change something that didnt have to be. It's like watching the neverending story remastered only to find out that falcor was working with the nothing all along...
Again, this was months ago and I pretty much just rolled with it because whatever but now it seems like hes about to change it again which is why I was wondering if it is typical. If i don't have any control over my character why am I thinking up a backstory to begin with? If you want a world full of troubled broken people and no one ever has a proper family that's fine, it's your boat and I will help row it. Just don't pretend I have options when I don't.
Again, this is just my perspective. You know where I have a terrible back story that I had to overcome? Real life. The reason I like magic users in games is because in real life there is none.
As a player shouldn't I have the right to play a character with a happy upbringing? Isn't that the point of a backstory? Hell most of the time I think up a backstory, then character concept, then race/class etc. If you change the backstory I have to change everything else because everything else was chosen based on that. If I have no notice I have to find a way to pigeonhole this race/class into a new backstory because you changed something that didn't need to be changed.
I am getting a lot of gm perspective and I like seeing it from both sides but I will say this: if you tell a player he can build something and he spends weeks on it and you ok it only to take the core of that and smash it aweek later don't expect that kind of commitment again.
@lazarx if you want to play a laid back character shouldn't that be your choice?
@ torger it was more like "have you cities ready because we are starting the new campaign next month." After emailing him the backstory he said it was fine and the week we met up to play he told me the that the organization enslaved her mother. When I asked why and explained that just by being in the town they were protected, had access to making magical items with her help at a far faster rate, had help with anyone who would attack them, and had an ally (a virtual army dedicated to fighting evil) against the evil organization from the other game so why would they do that with so much to gain and after being good all of the previous campaign (with examples of why they would be considered good) he was basically like "well some branches of the organization are evil"
So essentially; some do it and some don't and when done right it can be an enriching experience. I think my experience was more like what kestral said. I played an entire campaign in this world so I purposely wrote the story to fit it and to be honest I didn't see a reason to change it. I was more attached to my last character (my first character playing a game like this) than the current one so I put a lot of thought into how I wanted his story to end. It seems like it was arbitrarily changed with no impact on the current story and while I'm sure the story will pass through what happened there and why, I cannot see how it was mandatory.
That being said I'm grateful for everyone's input. Thank you for helping me see it from other perspectives.
Is it common for a gm to radically change a characters backstory and if so why? For instance: at the end of our last campaign we were given land to build a city/town for our efforts within the story (homebrew). It was kind of like our reward for playing. I did research and made a complete layout of the town, how it developed, how my character and the people he met after the campaign grew together and apart, and added in some things from the campaign and how he changed for the better and worse due to them. There was an organization that I worked with through the entire previous campaign the helped us to fight against an evil corporation and against some demons and devils who were the main antagonist do I added a base for them in my city because it made sense.
Long story short for the new game I decide to make a charter who is the daughter of my previous character. I write her backstory as kind of aloof and unknowing about the world but strong do to her parents coddling her. My old character (her father) died a few years back and her mother wanted to toughen her up so she was sent out to a school to learn what the world is like.
Then I find out that the good organization that we worked with all of the previous campaign took over the town and magically enslaved my new character's mother. When I asked why they would it was basically "oh there are evil and good branches so yup"
So after my initial shock and (insane amounts of) frustration I changed my entire new character background because no one is going to be like "well let me go learn about the world while my mother is enslaved" so now my character's complete reason for being and backstory is rewritten so that she is untrusting of people with magic and people in authority, and she is also obsessed with becoming more powerful so that she can save her mother.
Last session (that was like 3months ago)he alluded to my character "living a lie" or something so I think that he is about to change it again and so I'm wondering if it's common to change a character concept like this. Last time I told him how frustrated Iwas and why. if it's happening again I feel like next time I should just pick a race and class and have him tell me what character I'm role-playing.
Benefit: The barbarian may enter a rage even if fatigued. While raging after using this ability, the barbarian is immune to the fatigued condition. Once this rage ends, the barbarian is exhausted for 10 minutes per round spent raging.
You could rage cycle at will then, just make sure said cleric also has lesser restoration.
It doesn't say wielded in one hand, it says "worm or in hand." I would say holding the handle/firing mechanism is no different than holding a sword' s hilt. Or, with the floating disk one just put your hand on the bottom of the disk and the whole thing is in your hand... somewhat
Oh I'm sure this terrible rendition of summoner will have support. They finally caught on to the video game trend of selling you half of a product and then later selling the rest as add-ons. Pathfinder season passes for all...
On topic, yes thank you for a shell of an awesome class with less versatility and creativity due to the caws a minority. Still hoping my gm never sees that book.
by that logic if a fighter 19/ monk 1 uses flurry of blows his BAB is +1 but that isn't the case as per the sited rule so why is it the case in my example?
You literally bolded the part that says just that, you just have to go back a little farther. "If the primalist chooses rage powers, those rage powers can be used in conjunction with his bloodrage, and his bloodrager level acts as his barbarian level when determining the effect of those bloodrage powers and any prerequisites." Your bolded statement comes with the giant IF that it only applies while the bloodrager is trading out their bloodline power for rage powers (and only applies to the rage powers chosen that way).
Ok, I still don't see it. Say I take the two barbarian levels first then for character levels 3-6 I take primalist bloodrager.
"If the primalist chooses rage powers, those rage powers can be used in conjunction with his bloodrage, and his bloodrager level acts as his barbarian level when determining the effect of those bloodrage powers and any prerequisites."
If I choose rage powers then my primalist levels count as barbarian levels when determing effect and for prerequisites... what am I missing? I have 2 barbarian levels and then I add 4 which equals 6.
Its probably just some weird pathfinder terminology thing where bloodrager barbarian levels aren't actually barbarian levels or some such I just want to read the actual rules that say that it is such.
For instance look at the flurry of blows faq.
Spoiler:
The monk rules for flurry of blows state: "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level." How does this interact with BAB from class levels and racial Hit Dice? Does a multiclassed fighter 19/monk 1 flurry as if his BAB were only +1?
A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total.
So a fighter 19/monk 1 has a normal BAB of +19. When he flurries, he treats his monk BAB as +1 (for his 1 level of monk) and still gets BAB +19 from his fighter levels, for a total flurry BAB of +20.
By the way it's written a one level dip in monk would leave you with a BAB of +1 at 20 when flurrying but you add the monk BAB of +1 when to the BAB of other classes even though the ability doesn't say that you do.
The primalist ability essentially says that his barbarian level is equal to his bloodrager level. If you add the monk BAB to non monk BAB using this wording then why wouldn't you add the bloodrager barbarian levels to regular barbarian levels when determining effect/prerequisites for rage powers?
Primalist gets:
"At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, a primalist can choose to take either his bloodline power or two barbarian rage powers. If the primalist chooses rage powers, those rage powers can be used in conjunction with his bloodrage, and his bloodrager level acts as his barbarian level when determining the effect of those bloodrage powers and any prerequisites. Any other prerequisites for a rage power must be met before a primalist can choose it. This ability does not count as the rage power class feature for determining feat prerequisites and other requirements."
If you took 4 levels in Primalist and 2 levels in barbarian is your effective barbarian level 6 or do you have an instance of '4 bloodrager barbarian levels' and '2 regular barbarian levels' which are seperate?
I asked this before when I was trying to come up with a spell sundering character and someone said that they don't stack but recently I went over the rules and looked through the relevant data but can't see where that conclusion is coming from. Please site where the answer is coming from either way.
Personally I think it would work because @ 4 his bloodrager levels =4 barbarian levels for prerequisites. Taking two levels in barbarian means he now has 6 barbarian levels as far as prerequisites for rage powers are concerned.
I guess the overall and more general question would be:
If a class (say class A) gives you an effective level in a different class (class B) and then you take levels in that class (class B) do you have the cumulative levels in those classes or two separate instances?
In my post I specifically said that it was easier for summoner... back on topic: they could have left all the creativity by breaking the evolution into types (utility, offensive, defensive) and limiting the amount of each. By rewording some evolutions and adjusting the evo points/level needed they could have brought the power level to where it is now without taking away the creativity
@John lynch
Lol. I surely don't know what you are talking about with the Paladin comment. It's not hard to break the game with summoner and it would be fairly easy for anyone to do so. (Work with someone for permanencied enlarge, quad, pounce, claws, limbs, damage increase evolution s, ability increase, amulet of mighty fist, etc etc) My comment about the summoner s that I've played were, when read in context, to illuminate the fact that the class is only broken as you make it which is the same as any class really. As to why it works me, my gm can be an all our nothing kind of guy. If he adapts this book I lose creativity options.
If you want to break the game/ be disruptive most classes can do it, especially in pfs where you can read the module before hand and build specifically to do so. It may have been easier with summoner to be strong than some other classes, but destroying the class to the point where it is inferior to EVERY other class that works similarly was not the answer.
Again, these are my opinions and yours may differ.
I thought that is what this game was about, creativity. Now there are simply less options.
@Celanian I'm glad that you are happy with it, but they will not be getting my money for what amount to nerfing of the most creative class on the game. I have played two summoner s (master and vanilla) and neither one broke the game or bogged down combat. I guess it's because that wasn't my goal, my goal was to have fun with my friends.
Again, I will ONLY buy this if my group forces me to and even then I won't be making a summoner if I do.
It's sub par. If I want a caster with a pet I'm now FAR weaker than the other options (caster with a pet- druid/ few spells and melee with a pet -Hunter/ranger).
They took away the customizability of the eidolon, which while necessary at some tables was not necessary as a whole and could have been fixed without breaking it completely. By forcing a chassis AND lowering evo points the few choices that you do have are pigeonholed into the must haves leaving an illusion of choice but no real choice. By weakening the spell list and having even less spell castings you force the summoner to either stand there the majority of the time or jump into melee, even less options.
I was the one championing this to my group because most of the ideas seemed good. I knew that they would change the eidolon (though not THAT much) but after seeing what they did the spell list in addition to that... I will not be bringing this back up to my group and just hope that they forget that it exists and I certainly won't be buying it. To make the monk better they have to balance it by making it weaker in some ways, but they just rip the guts out of the summoner and leave it quivering on the floor
If I seem to be over reacting it's because summoner was my favorite class and if this version makes it into my group I'll never make one again and that makes me sad.
