Bladed dash cheese

[_Ozy_]

Then why mention that you must end up in an unoccupied square at all?

Seriously? Why even bring it up? For what purpose? Just to waste words? The fact that you have to end up in an unoccupied square indicates to me that the spell can be generally used to traverse through occupied squares. That's why I think RAI allows it. RAW, I agree with your point.

And moving through occupied squares is not 'breaking the rules', you already can do that with an acrobatics check, so it's not like passing through a wall or other barrier which is just not possible with normal movement.

Also, normally one would have to make a 'jump' check to traverse over a chasm. You couldn't just use your movement to cross a gap.

So, can you cross a gap with bladed dash? It doesn't explicitly say that you can...

[Zwordsman]

eh as another example. I kinda went with the thought of Super smash bros' sword fighters.

that side charge? you blast forward and hit something. it can go over holes if they aren't too big.

[CraziFuzzy]

I fully see this as a magical burst of movement, with nothing but hard obstruction blocking it. Otherwise, they should have just used the language of Charge.

[Ark Sorvin]

As OP, I still feel that this combination is not legal with RAI. Full attack clearly states you cannot take movement and do a full attack. It doesn't say anything about move as an action.

Dimension Door works similarly. Bladed Dash would merely let you charge and get one extra attack per the spell rather than a full attack. Regarding the spell as a "special action" seems broken and at odds with how most other similar mechanics work.

I'd hope this jank crap gets FAQ'd, but I suspect it never will. As many other cheese combinations, such as the Shield Master that takes no attack penalties while dual wielding shields.

[Imbicatus]

As OP, you're still wrong. Spell Combat + Bladed Dash is working as intended. Spell combat is a special action that is not a full attack, but allows you to full attack and cast a spell. You are not moving. The spell is moving you.

Dimension Door does not work similarly, as it is teleportation instead of movement, and it specifically ends your turn when you cast it.

[mplindustries]

Yeah, you're still trying to prove some kind of bizarre, nitpicky point instead of just making the game work. You can't move when you full attack, but you can move as part of a spell. It's no different than if you full attacked and then cast a Quickened Bladed Dash.

[boring7]

Or used dimensional agility to full attack while teleporting all over the place.

[kestral287]

boring7 wrote:

Or used dimensional agility to full attack while teleporting all over the place.

Or used Spell Combat to cast Dimension Door and then full attack!

It still amuses me that the OP hasn't started complaining about that one yet.

[Zwordsman]

hrm.. D.Door woudln't work though right? it immediately ends the turn. So. If you casted then intended to attack would you be able to or not?
i know for sure you can attack then cast though.

I guess it depends on what you consider an action huh...
since it only specifies after the spell finishes you can't have anymore actions.. but the spell is cast via an action that includes a pseudo full attack with penalties.

SO yeah.. Iguess that works fine actually doesn't it haha.

just had to talk myself through the steps.

[Cap. Darling]

Zwordsman wrote:

hrm.. D.Door woudln't work though right? it immediately ends the turn. So. If you casted then intended to attack would you be able to or not?

i know for sure you can attack then cast though.

I guess it depends on what you consider an action huh...
since it only specifies after the spell finishes you can't have anymore actions.. but the spell is cast via an action that includes a pseudo full attack with penalties.

SO yeah.. Iguess that works fine actually doesn't it haha.

just had to talk myself through the steps.

No you Will need the dimensional agility feat. But then it works fine.

I Think the OP dosent like that blades Dash comes online at level 4. And compared to forcehook charge it is a very good spell. But there is no rules argument here it works as folks says.
And to the OP just dont use the spell in your games. No need to stand alone for months in here. It is a rule you dont like. Not a rules dispute.

[bbangerter]

Cap. Darling wrote:

It is a rule you dont like. Not a rules dispute.

This is a true statement for nearly all rules threads that go on longer than a page.

[Zwordsman]

Cap. Darling wrote:

No you Will need the dimensional agility feat. But then it works fine.
I Think the OP dosent like that blades Dash comes online at level 4. And compared to forcehook charge it is a very good spell. But there is no rules argument here it works as folks says.
And to the OP just dont use the spell in your games. No need to stand alone for months in here. It is a rule you dont like. Not a rules dispute.

Thats what I thoguht originally but I went and looked at the wording of things. DD says once the spell is finished you can no longer take any actions. Actions are standard, free, swift, move, full round action full attack, etc.

Normally without that feat thats it. Nothing else.well except "not an action" things like speaking.

but.

Spell Combat (Ex)::

At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.

The whole thing is one action. There isn't the action of "cast spell the nattack" by game definitions its one whole action (full round action-spell and attacks are one action itself. Not individual actions). So you could not take any addtitional actions after casting the spell but your action already in progress has to finish by rule of how the game works. You simply could not use a swift action or free action etc after the point you cast the spell i.e. can't cast the spell, then take your attacks and use a swift action to use arcane strike or something. but you could use arcane strike then spell then attack just fine..
Spell combat itself is what allows DD+attacks due to it's own set up.

at least thats where I ended up after having talked it out originally a few posts before my original one

[Cap. Darling]

Zwordsman wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

No you Will need the dimensional agility feat. But then it works fine.
I Think the OP dosent like that blades Dash comes online at level 4. And compared to forcehook charge it is a very good spell. But there is no rules argument here it works as folks says.
And to the OP just dont use the spell in your games. No need to stand alone for months in here. It is a rule you dont like. Not a rules dispute.

Thats what I thoguht originally but I went and looked at the wording of things. DD says once the spell is finished you can no longer take any actions. Actions are standard, free, swift, move, full round action full attack, etc.

Normally without that feat thats it. Nothing else.well except "not an action" things like speaking.

but. ** spoiler omitted **

The whole thing is one action. There isn't the action of "cast spell the nattack" by game definitions its one whole action (full round...

The Spell is finished when you have teleportet! The Spell dosent talk about when the action used to cast the spell. It just say after using this spell....

I can see your argument and it May fly with some GMs but i wouldent build a PFS character around it if i was you.

[kestral287]

The spell is finished, but the action used to cast it is not. The wording on D-Door is pretty clear-- "you cannot take any other actions". But if I declare Spell Combat, cast Dimension Door to teleport up to a target, and then attack him with my Spell Combat full attack, what other actions have I taken beyond that which cast the spell?

Certainly I can't take a swift action after the teleport. If I have some way to get another standard action (Mythic or 3.5's Belt of Battle or some such), I can't take that either. But "you cannot take any other actions" is not the same as "you cannot finish the action used to cast this spell".

Totally, horribly against RAI, I'd wager. But RAW.

On the bright side, it's nothing at all that you build around. You just grab D-Door as one of your 4th level spells, which you're likely to do anyway, and you're set. It's nothing but a tactical tool, not something that requires investment.

[Claxon]

It's something you can talk to your GM about and takes little to no character investment other than learning dimension door, which you were probably going to anyways.

I've seen the argument for using DD and still being able to act, and it basically boils down to the concept that Spell Combat isn't finished even when you finish casting DD so you can still fulfill the rest of your action.

I personally feel this is against the RAI, even if it's the RAW. I would tell my player they need to have the dimensional line of feats. This really only matters for a magus because they're the only one who gets to cast a spell as part of a larger action instead of its own individual action.

[Zwordsman]

totally agianst RAI i'd wager as well.

[Kenji Elindir]

I like how this guy is just willfully ignorant of everyone who keeps mentioning that Spell Combat is a full round action with certain properties of a full attack.

That said, Bladed Dash is not a very good spell till you get to level 8 or so. It's strictly worse than just casting shocking grasp at level 4. It's decent once you can consistently haste yourself at level 7. It's good once you get your iterative at level 8, and keeps getting better from there.

Also, on the subject of quickened shocking grasp, you can have that at level 7 if you take Wayang Spell Hunter and Magical Lineage for shocking grasp. At level 10 you can have quickened intensifying shocking grasps.

[DinosaursOnIce]

Yeah, the extra damage from Bladed Dash doesn't do much in comparison to just smacking something with Shocking Grasp at lower levels.

That being said, it still has utility value:

It's good for crossing the field and avoiding AoO's.

It's nice for not eating an AoO against a reach opponent.

It also has the situational usefulness of hitting something in the air or moving to a higher location (or someplace you can't walk to).

[Kaouse]

It's also good for escaping an opponent while still attacking them. Sort of like a "Reverse Pounce" or a "Pounce Withdrawal." When you get 6th level spells, you can Spell Combat Bladed Dash in, attack the opponent, make a full attack, and then cast a Quickened Bladed Dash to attack the opponent once more before getting to safety. Mind you, that's basically the same amount of attacks a regular fighter gets, except you can move in and out and be completely safe from a full attack from any creature lacking some form of Pounce.

So in that sense, Bladed Dash is like, a bajillion times better than Pounce, except where distance is a concern.

In those cases, Dimension Door gets you everywhere you need to go and more. No archer will be able to escape from you, and range problems will be a thing of the past. Note that while I totally believe that Spell Combat allows you to ignore the downside of loosing all your actions by RAW, if you don't want to get treated for a book-related concussion you should probably take the Dimensional Agility feat and save your DM the trouble.

[Hrothdane]

Bladed Dash isnt overpowered when it comes online, and arguably never if you are a more caster type magus. If you have the investments (feats, magic items, etc) to get your spell damage up and for them to reliably get past energy resists and SR, then you should just spellstrike.

However, on characters like my bladebound kensai, it is definitely worth it. Once I got my first iterative and haste became more expected, Bladed Dash became bread-and-butter, along with Force Hook Charge and Dimension Door with Dimensional Agility. Full-attacking when you have high static damage is just so good.