Just realized that a smart party would in fact 'hire' some mentally ill people to walk at the back and mumble to themselves when something stressful like combat starts. heheheYou know your DM is out to get your witch when 9/10 opponents are elves, halfelves and dragons. . . .You know the GM is out to get your WITCH when suddenly all of your humanoid opponents are elves.Hmm... I'm guessing some DMs are passive aggressive about slumber hexes builds... add undead and constructs to the elves/dragons then.Good gods yes
You know your DM is out to get your WITCH when the band of knolls runs past the rest of the party to take down the first level witch in the backI'm sorry, but it's just good tactics to kill casters first. The group that I play with employs this tactic often, so when relatively intelligent humanoid opponents (such as gnolls) do the same to us it's hard to cry foul. This isn't a GM being a jerk necessarily, it is simply smart tactics to attack the unarmored guy in the back mumbling to himself. Whether it be witch, wizard, or some other caster is of little consequence.
Subsequently this is why our group travels in a line with one melee character upfront and another survival character in the back. Squishy characters go in the middle.
I've always thought this was the monk's job.
Just realized that a smart party would in fact 'hire' some mentally ill people to walk at the back and mumble to themselves when something stressful like combat starts. hehehe
That would be a legitimate tactic in my group. Though definitely evil. But it would trick the enemy into possibly attacking the wrong target.*
*At that point targets would be determined by which is closest or randomly if equal distance or already engaged with another combatant.
You know your DM is out to get your witch when 9/10 opponents are elves, halfelves and dragons. . . .You know the GM is out to get your WITCH when suddenly all of your humanoid opponents are elves.Hmm... I'm guessing some DMs are passive aggressive about slumber hexes builds... add undead and constructs to the elves/dragons then.Good gods yes
You know your DM is out to get your WITCH when the band of knolls runs past the rest of the party to take down the first level witch in the backI'm sorry, but it's just good tactics to kill casters first. The group that I play with employs this tactic often, so when relatively intelligent humanoid opponents (such as gnolls) do the same to us it's hard to cry foul. This isn't a GM being a jerk necessarily, it is simply smart tactics to attack the unarmored guy in the back mumbling to himself. Whether it be witch, wizard, or some other caster is of little consequence.
Subsequently this is why our group travels in a line with one melee character upfront and another survival character in the back. Squishy characters go in the middle.
Just realized that a smart party would in fact 'hire' some mentally ill people to walk at the back and mumble to themselves when something stressful like combat starts. heheheThat would be a legitimate tactic in my group. Though definitely evil. But it would trick the enemy into possibly attacking the wrong target.*
*At that point targets would be determined by which is closest or randomly if equal distance or already engaged with another combatant.
I'm still going to call shenanigans.
There is a skill system in game that determines what a character knows. One of those skills is called Spellcraft. There is another one called Knowledge (Arcane). If, in a society with magic, you choose to sink a rank into one of those to determine what you're seeing, that's fair. If you have someone assuming that all persons that mumble to themselves are spellcasters, then I am a spellcaster in real life. :\
I also sometimes play spellcasters who get some padded armor up to darkwood studded leather and wear a short sword at their hip. I'll risk the 5% ASF, to sometimes make others mistake me for a rogue/swashbuckler type... and then sometimes the DM still just assumes I'm wearing ****ing robes. >:(
Edit: I would also like to introduce you to my salty gnome bard duelist who is always mumbling/swearing under his breath.
I'm still going to call shenanigans.
There is a skill system in game that determines what a character knows. One of those skills is called Spellcraft. There is another one called Knowledge (Arcane). If, in a society with magic, you choose to sink a rank into one of those to determine what you're seeing, that's fair. If you have someone assuming that all persons that mumble to themselves are spellcasters, then I am a spellcaster in real life. :\
I also sometimes play spellcasters who get some padded armor up to darkwood studded leather and wear a short sword at their hip. I'll risk the 5% ASF, to sometimes make others mistake me for a rogue/swashbuckler type... and then sometimes the DM still just assumes I'm wearing ****ing robes. >:(
Edit: I would also like to introduce you to my salty gnome bard duelist who is always mumbling/swearing under his breath.
The "mumbling" part was just supposed to be a joke about the verbal component required for many spells. Clearly, you're taking that seriously....so I don't know what to do with that.
Regardless, looking the part of a spellcaster is an easy way to get attacked first. Of course, it also means that others can disguise themselves as spellcasters to present themselves as targets instead.
In golarion magic isn't this hidden unknowable force. It's everywhere. The poorest of commoners might not have access to it, but you can buy magical potions in nearly every settlement, even tiny little thorps. So you can call shenanigans, but everyone knows magic exist and it is reasonable for everyone to know the enemy spell casters are much more dangerous than the guy who can only shove a sword through your head.
You don't need a skill to see. Spellcraft will let you identify what spell someone is casting, but you don't need a skill to notice they're casting a spell. All you need is line of sight. In fact, there are almost no ways to hide spell casting and the ones that exist are severly restricted. Knowledge arcane definitely doesn't have anything to do with making a reasonable guess that someone is a spell caster either.
Now, you're suggesting of putting on armor and wielding a weapon is a good way to try to trick enemies into think you're a less valuable target. And depending on the situation might or might not result with you being targetted (it would depend on relative positioning).
So go ahead call shenaigans, but...
Regardless, looking the part of a spellcaster is an easy way to get attacked first. Of course, it also means that others can disguise themselves as spellcasters to present themselves as targets instead.
Spellcraft will let you identify what spell someone is casting, but you don't need a skill to notice they're casting a spell.
And what do spellcasters look like?
Cite?
And why attack the spellcaster first? I mean, at the levels where spellcasters rule, they have so many protections, that you will fail in your attack anyway.
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You know the GM is out to get the ENTIRE PARTY when EVEN IN YOUR PATHFINDER, F.O.E.!
You know the GM is out to get the ENTIRE PARTY when EVEN IN YOUR PATHFINDER, F.O.E.!
Really hoping that Etrian Odyssey tabletop gets done being translated someday...
You know your GM is out to get your CAVALIER when your adventure takes you into a series of mines for three sessions.
You know your GM is out to get your melee FIGHTER when every fight occurs in difficult terrain.
You know your GM is out to get your CASTER when the enemies wait for them to come in range of sneak attack before starting the ambush.
Hey guys, how about we keep this on track instead of debasing into a discussion... And on that note...
You know the GM is out to get the CLERIC when suddenly all the deities go quiet... and does not like non-deity divines.
You know your GM is out to get your CAVALIER when your adventure takes you into a series of mines for three sessions.
You know your GM is out to get your melee FIGHTER when every fight occurs in difficult terrain.
You know your GM is out to get your CASTER when the enemies wait for them to come in range of sneak attack before starting the ambush.
Uh, you mean some GM dont ambush the party at sneak attack range?
You know the GM's after the when there's natural predators after your cat/turtle/pet bird/snake
You know your GM is out to get your WARLOCK when ever opponent has a high Spell Resistence...
You know your GM is out to get your WARLOCK who can fly when he starts throwing spectres with energy drains at you.
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Hey guys, how about we keep this on track instead of debasing into a discussion... And on that note...
I'll try to quit after this.
The "mumbling" part was just supposed to be a joke about the verbal component required. . .
Ah. Fair enough.
In golarion magic isn't this hidden unknowable force. It's everywhere. The poorest of commoners might not have access to it, but you can buy magical potions in nearly every settlement, even tiny little thorps. So you can call shenanigans, but everyone knows magic exist and it is reasonable for everyone to know the enemy spell casters are much more dangerous than the guy who can only shove a sword through your head.
Yes. Magic is everywhere. And drinking a potion/beer doesn't make me able to glance at a horologist's balance tack or calipers and know what they are or what they're for without some experience before hand. How many people do you know that can operate a computer or phone but have no real idea how one works? Turn that concept up to 11. You cannot used trained skills without training, not even the DC 10 common knowledge stuff (with the exception of the actual DC 10 knowledge stuff), because (with that specific exception) for trained skills there really isn't common knowledge.
You don't know what you don't know.
If a character has no ranks in linguistics and none of the appropriate or even the related languages, does that mean they can still make a linguistics roll to understand Undercommon?
If a character had a pet cat once but no ranks in handle animal, does that mean they get to make a handle animal check to influence an angry dire badger?
If a character has seen a street performer do the three card trick, does that mean they can successfully attempt a sleight of hand check to pick a pocket?
You don't need a skill to see. Spellcraft will let you identify what spell someone is casting, but you don't need a skill to notice they're casting a spell. All you need is line of sight. In fact, there are almost no ways to hide spell casting and the ones that exist are severly restricted. Knowledge arcane definitely doesn't have anything to do with making a reasonable guess that someone is a spell caster either.
Yes you do. It's called Perception. :D
Skill Checks
When your character uses a skill, he isn't guaranteed success. In order to determine success, whenever you attempt to use a skill, you must make a skill check. . . If the result of your skill check is equal to or greater than the difficulty class (or DC) of the task you are attempting to accomplish, you succeed. If it is less than the DC, you fail. Some tasks have varying levels of success and failure depending on how much your check is above or below the required DC. Some skill checks are opposed by the target's skill check. When making an opposed skill check, the attempt is successful if your check result exceeds the result of the target.
Are you trying to tell me that you make it a DC 0 free action to notice things that you don't know about, probably at a distance (especially since those daffy spellcasters are so concerned about Attacks of Opportunity)?
Until you see a spell being cast, you don't know. Sometimes you've got bluff checks opposed by sense motive checks and disguise checks opposed by perception checks. Sometimes you just can't see clearly due to distance or... I don't know, other people in the way... you know, kind of like cover.
So go ahead call shenaigans, but...
By your rational, when I look at a complex calculus problem on a white board across a college amphitheater-like class, I know it's a calculus problem even though it could just as easily be a notations for a physics problem, maybe neither of which I have studied.
You know the GM is out to get the CLERIC when suddenly all the deities go quiet... and does not like non-deity divines.
So... he's already disallowed oracles?
You know your GM is out to get your PSION when he lets other 9th level casters have multiple summons out (including lasting ones with planar ally/binding), but limits you to ONE ASTRAL CONSTRUCT.
Regardless, looking the part of a spellcaster is an easy way to get attacked first. Of course, it also means that others can disguise themselves as spellcasters to present themselves as targets instead.
Spellcraft will let you identify what spell someone is casting, but you don't need a skill to notice they're casting a spell.
And what do spellcasters look like?
Cite?
And why attack the spellcaster first? I mean, at the levels where spellcasters rule, they have so many protections, that you will fail in your attack anyway.
The common "look" of arcane spell casters is unarmored, without weapons. Often having a spell component pouch. Spell books and a good sign, or familiars. None of these are guaranteed to work, but you often have a better chance of getting the spell caster with such criteria than you do without. Obviously though such criteria can also be tricked with proper preparation.
As far as having so many protections...either you would have very obvious indications, which might give away their status as a caster or you can't tell that the magic is present and are just guessing. If you're relying on guesses then it seems likely that they don't have their amazing magical defenses active at the time. The party can't see every combat coming.
Edit: And now that I've seen Faelyn's quote thanks to Te'Shen quoting him I will say I'll end my discussion here. We've discussed this before Dr. D and I don't think were going to make any progress on this topic. I do however appreciate your opinion, we just have very different ones.
You know your GM is out to get your Fire-themed Sorcerer when the Prismatic Ray result sends you to Hell.
He or she begins a new Adventure Path with the phrase:
"You are all residents of a small mining town known as Diamond Lake."
@(*#^@!( !^#*&!@# @*(#!%*!%%^$%@ %&!*@&^*@ .....
He or she begins a new Adventure Path with the phrase:
"You are all residents of a small mining town known as Diamond Lake."
Um, am I missing something here?
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You know the gm is out to get you when the flirty redhead npc shows up.
You know the gm is out to get your catgirl when he says 'I'm a teensy bit of a narrativist and I've got a neat world in mind I think you guys would really enjoy.'
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You know your gm is out to get your party when he asks 'have you guys ever heard of grimtooth?'
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You know your GM is out to get you when you find an intelligent weapon that asks if you "would like to destroy some evil today?".
You know your gm is out to get your party when he asks 'have you guys ever heard of grimtooth?'
which one? I believe there was three written.
You know your DM is out to get you when he starts looking through his books for the disease rules.
You know your DM is out to get the male dwarf when the boss is a mad barber.
You know your DM is out to get the male dwarf when the boss is a mad barber.
To be fair, I think anybody could feel threatened by a mad barber.
Grimtooth's traps? The first one, too, fore, ate and lite, to my knowledge.
You know your GM is out to make you laugh when he places a Black Adder in the way of your party and all of your party members start quoting the Black Adder t.v. series.
(I rolled a 5 on an encounter, and actually did that. It's a common viper, a black adder, actually.
One of the players came out and said, "Does it have a cunning plan?"
I said, "It always has a cunning plan, but it needs a baldric as a counselor.")
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You know your DM is out to get the male dwarf when the boss is a mad barber.To be fair, I think anybody could feel threatened by a mad barber.
I didn't want to be a barber anyway. I wanted to be a lumberjack.
Leaping from tree to tree! As they float down the mighty rivers of
British Columbia! With my best girl by my side!
The Larch!
The Pine!
The Giant Redwood tree!
The Sequoia!
The Little Whopping Rule Tree!
We'd sing! Sing! Sing!
Oh, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay,
I sleep all night and I work all day.
CHORUS: He's a lumberjack, and he's okay,
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
I cut down trees, I eat my lunch,
I go to the lava-try.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tea.
Mounties: He cuts down trees, he eats his lunch,
He goes to the lava-try.
On Wednesdays 'e goes shoppin'
And has buttered scones for tea.
CHORUS
I cut down trees, I skip and jump,
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing,
And hang around in bars.
Mounties: He cuts down trees, he skips and jumps,
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around.... In bars???????
CHORUS
I chop down trees, I wear high heels,
Suspenders and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie
Just like my dear papa.
Mounties: He cuts down trees, he wears high heels
Suspenders?? and a .... a Bra????
(spoken, raggedly) What's this? Wants to be a "girlie"? Oh, My!
And I thought you were so rugged! Poofter!
CHORUS
All: He's a lumberjack, and he's okaaaaaaayyy..... (BONG)
Sound Cue: The Liberty Bell March, by John Phillip Sousa.
Read more: Monty Python - Lumberjack Song Lyrics | MetroLyrics
You know the DM is out to get you when the party encounters 13 wandering Asmodai.
One of the guys I used to play D&D with in college was fond of that one.
U know the GM is out to get ur wizard/sorcerer when suddenly vines shoot out from the wall and u see him praying that they stay grappled for at least rounds....
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You know the GM is out to get you when he says, "Roll perception."
You know the GM is out to get you when he says, "Roll initiative."
You know the GM is out to get you when his mouth is moving.
You know the GM is out to get you when his mouth is not moving.
You know the GM is out to get you when you say, "I cast Magic Missile against the darkness."
You know the GM is out to get your GUNSLINGER when...wait? This campaign setting has guns right?
Hello? Anyone?
You know your GM is out to get you when he starts using the same spell against you that your own character had been milking for three levels. ( Yeah, I was the GM)
You know your GM is out to get you when, after your group has a bag of holding, pit traps start leading to portable holes.
Regardless, looking the part of a spellcaster is an easy way to get attacked first. Of course, it also means that others can disguise themselves as spellcasters to present themselves as targets instead.
Spellcraft will let you identify what spell someone is casting, but you don't need a skill to notice they're casting a spell.
And what do spellcasters look like?
Cite?
And why attack the spellcaster first? I mean, at the levels where spellcasters rule, they have so many protections, that you will fail in your attack anyway.
The common "look" of arcane spell casters is unarmored, without weapons. Often having a spell component pouch. Spell books and a good sign, or familiars. None of these are guaranteed to work, but you often have a better chance of getting the spell caster with such criteria than you do without. Obviously though such criteria can also be tricked with proper preparation.
As far as having so many protections...either you would have very obvious indications, which might give away their status as a caster or you can't tell that the magic is present and are just guessing. If you're relying on guesses then it seems likely that they don't have their amazing magical defenses active at the time. The party can't see every combat coming.
So, like a merchant? or a Monk? Or a rogue?
Aren't clerics full spellcasters and very dangerous?
Spellbooks? Really, walk around with a book under your arm?? How about a satchel.
How do you tell a spell component pouch from a belt pouch? JJ sez they look nearly the same.
Mage armor. Shield.
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When the GM kidnaps your character, kills his animal companion, and steals all his equipment as the introduction to the campaign and then finally lets you start playing unarmed in a cave against rock throwing kobolds and giant spiders so there's no gear to even take.
Yes it actually happened.
When the GM kidnaps your character, kills his animal companion, and steals all his equipment as the introduction to the campaign and then finally lets you start playing unarmed in a cave against rock throwing kobolds and giant spiders so there's no gear to even take.
Yes it actually happened.
He didn't burn your house down? Bloody favoritism!
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You know your GM is out to get you when he says "I'll just roll on the Wandering Damage table..."
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When the GM kidnaps your character, kills his animal companion, and steals all his equipment as the introduction to the campaign and then finally lets you start playing unarmed in a cave against rock throwing kobolds and giant spiders so there's no gear to even take.
Yes it actually happened.
I think I just started a character in that campaign. Fortunately the GM missed my psionic tattoos; or I'm sure they would have skinned me before locking me up.
