I occasionally see comments on the forum about how the Inquisitor is such a strong class. I don't ever recall seeing anything really that great about it. What am I missing?
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You're missing all the stuff that makes it a pretty strong class.
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It's a very versatile and fun class. It's full of unique stuff and can contribute in pretty much every situation, although they usually don't outshine specialists at their main job.
Inquisitors also have the great advantage of being allow all sorts of different builds. From 2-handed beatstick to hunter to skill monkey to party face.
In my honest opinion, it's the best designed class in the whole game. It's useful, versatile, unique, fun and very well balanced.
People only think Inquisitors are overpowered when they compare it to Rogues or Fighters... But pretty much everything is overpowered compared to those two. :P
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I played an inquisitor all the way through an AP. here was my recipe for success:
-Spells. the inquisitor list is very solid for self-buffing, and being a backup healer in a pinch.
-Bane. Being able to make your weapon bane vs whatever you're fighting as a swift action is just solid. That's a free +2 to hit and +4-14 damage on every attack.
-Monster ID. I had at least one rank in every Knowledge skill that could identify opponents. This helps pick the right type for Bane and also helps the party figure out how to fight oddball critters.
-Judgments. Adjustable self-buffs that you can start as a swift action.
Really the weapon you choose barely matters. My inquisitor did just fine wielding a dagger. The only tough parts are deciding how to use your swift each round, and keeping track of how awesome you are.
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In addition to everything else people have listed inquisitors are actually one of the best skill monkeys in the game. The bonus to sense motive and a good wisdom means they are almost impossible to lie to. Throw in the ability to discern lies and they are a walking lie detector. They can track better than a ranger because they will usually have a higher WIS. The bonus to intimidate when used with the feat corngun smash means that anyone they hit is shaken. Monster lore allows them to add WIS to identifying monsters, and they can take the feat improved monster lore to get their rolls higher than a bard.
The ability to detect any alignment not just good is really helpful. Combine that with good perception and sense motive and they are pretty hard to fool. If they take the conversion inquisition they can dump CHA and still be the party face.
Their spell lest is great. Pick mostly buffs and utility spells and your versatility is insane. Having the healing spells on your spell list allows you to use wands and scrolls to fill the role of healer. Invisibility and knock means that you are a better rogue than the rogue. Take a trait to get disable device as a class skill to deal with mundane traps and use dispel magic for magical traps. The 0 level spell sift allows you to search an area from 30’ away. Detect magic will allow you to figure out if the trap is magical before you even try. Guidance gives you a +1 on any skill you want. Detect thoughts can be used to read surface thoughts making inquisitors even better at getting information.
There was a whole thread going on whether it is evil for an inquisitor to torture people, but they don’t really even need to. They have so many ways to gain information without having to torture that even evil inquisitors probably don’t have to bother.
I played an inquisitor from level 7 to 14 in a hight level campaign, and their versatility is totally awesome. I started as an halberd wielder two-handed inquisitor, but soon, with the good buff on and bane..then greater bane, I turned into a nightmarish switch-hitter with a composite long bow...and no archery feat. I almost killed in one shoot a lvl 15 druid with a Named Bullet (goooood spell).
This class is awesome.
Not only that, but Sanctified Slayer basically gets rid of their weakest ability (which is still pretty strong) for Focused Target and Sneak Attack, offsetting their Average BAB and making them even better front-liners.
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I'm actually unimpressed with the inquisitor's discern lies ability - that spell allows a saving throw, and since it's a SLA the save DC will be Cha based and therefore likely not very good. Add to that the fact that your target know someone tried to do something to them when they make the DC13-15 Will save and its utility goes way down.
It has some uses but in general it's more limited than people seem to think.
I'm actually unimpressed with the inquisitor's discern lies ability - that spell allows a saving throw, and since it's a SLA the save DC will be Cha based and therefore likely not very good. Add to that the fact that your target know someone tried to do something to them when they make the DC13-15 Will save and its utility goes way down.
It has some uses but in general it's more limited than people seem to think.
I agree. Especially when you consider that most Inquisitors are going to have a Sense Motive check so insane that it replaces most spells anyway.
Why would the DC be Cha based for a class that uses Wis as it's casting stat?
So that Clerics aren't the only full caster class in the game totally shafted and forced to use their powers off of two stats instead of one? Totally messed up that channel and casting are off two different stats, IMO.
Has there been an FAQ or anything that says the universal monster rule you're quoting applies to SLAs of someone with class levels? Makes sense to have a default for classless monsters but I'm not following the logic of why that would be the same for abilities granted by a class?
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Has there been an FAQ or anything that says the universal monster rule you're quoting applies to SLAs of someone with class levels? Makes sense to have a default for classless monsters but I'm not following the logic of why that would be the same for abilities granted by a class?
It's not just a monster rule, that's just how spell like abilities work, unless stated otherwise, which some classes do mention. SLA rule appears also in the core rulebook.
Has there been an FAQ or anything that says the universal monster rule you're quoting applies to SLAs of someone with class levels? Makes sense to have a default for classless monsters but I'm not following the logic of why that would be the same for abilities granted by a class?It's not just a monster rule, that's just how spell like abilities work, unless stated otherwise, which some classes do mention. SLA rule appears also in the core rulebook.
I just looked up the spell like ability in core rule book and it does not say anything about it being charisma based. The only place I can find that it mentions charisma is in the Bestiary under the universal monster rules.
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On top of everything else (including good action economy with the swift actions) don't underestimate the Teamwork Feats. I'm playing an Inquisitor with the Travel Domain and I'm having a blast with Outflank and Precise Strike, combined with Dimensional Hop from the domain to get in position. Shake it off is also quite nice.
Perhaps the most fun class I've ever played. Just a bit challenging to keep track of all the boons and stuff.
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On top of everything else (including good action economy with the swift actions) don't underestimate the Teamwork Feats.
I thought teamwork feats were terrible in general as you have to rely on someone else having the same feat.
Inquisitors have Solo Tactics, so they get the benefits without having to worry about other people having them. They also get to shift around the ones they know.
Most Teamwork feats are very underwhelming, but there are some good ones... Escape Route, Outflank, Paired Opportunists, Seize The Moment and Stealth Synergy are pretty useful if you have Solo Tactics.
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Additionally, of the best things about the inquisitor is that they ahve a VERY HIGH build optimization floor, even if their cieling isn't the highest.
In other words, they are REALLY FREAKING HARD to screw up build wise. They pretty are always at least decent, if not very strong.
blah blah... I almost killed in one shoot a lvl 15 druid with a Named Bullet (goooood spell).
Holy crap... is there a melee version of that spell?!
Additionally, of the best things about the inquisitor is that they ahve a VERY HIGH build optimization floor, even if their cieling isn't the highest.
In other words, they are REALLY FREAKING HARD to screw up build wise. They pretty are always at least decent, if not very strong.
So what you are saying is that it's a well designed class and a balanced class but not a strong class? That's what I'm trying to determine. Is it what some people would classify as a Tier 1 or Tier 2 class? Also, my interest is more around low to middle levels as I never play high levels (beyond about level 12 or 13).
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The Inquisitor is fine in terms of strength. It falls short of 9th level casters. But pretty much all classes do anyways.
The Inquisitor is just a nice benchmark for where the ideal power balance of classes should be.
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So what you are saying is that it's a well designed class and a balanced class but not a strong class? That's what I'm trying to determine. Is it what some people would classify as a Tier 1 or Tier 2 class? Also, my interest is more around low to middle levels as I never play high levels (beyond about level 12 or 13).Additionally, of the best things about the inquisitor is that they ahve a VERY HIGH build optimization floor, even if their cieling isn't the highest.
In other words, they are REALLY FREAKING HARD to screw up build wise. They pretty are always at least decent, if not very strong.
Inquisitor is THE Tier 3 class. Every other class in Tier 3 should be measured against the Inquisitor, because it pretty much defines what T3 should be.
1. Where do you find this list of Tiers?
2. Who died and made said person(s) the authority on what is and/or is not "better"?
3. Is this an overall scale, or does it vary by level? A barbarian, for example, is heavily front-loaded in terms of power, while an arcanist is less so.
4. How is measurement of what is/is not higher/lower tier determined? DPR? Utility? Amount of system mastery required for viability?
The inquisitor is a very strong class. What people are saying is that it is not the strongest in any one thing. The inquisitor is a close second in almost every category. He is not the strongest at melee damage, but comes close, he is not the strongest spell caster, but is not that much below the top casters. The same is true with almost everything else.
Having no weakness also makes for a very strong character. A fighter can be shut down with a spell targeting will save, a wizard can be shut down by preventing him from casting, but it is almost impossible to shut down an inquisitor. Even when he is out of spells and other resources he can still fall back on the fact he is a ¾ BAB class that can use decent armor.
Another thing that makes the inquisitor powerful is that most, if not all his abilities stack. Judgments are a sacred bonus, he can get both moral and luck bonuses from spells. This allows him to go nova like no one else.
I would rate an inquisitor as a tier 1 class just because he has so much going for him. At high levels the full 9 level casters may pull ahead a bit. Chose a race that favored class bonus can increase your spells known and you will have a very strong character.
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Inquisitor is one of those glorious classes that can be built as anything, is loaded with flavor, including it's archetypes, all of which are effective whilst being flavorful. It balances versatility with power, utility with combat readiness, and skill with durability. You could potentially build a full-caster Inquisitor and have him remain an effective member of the party, depending on your archetype and focus.
Inquisitor, much like the Bard, is the paragon of what a class should be able to do solo, as well as with a group.
Looking back over the class, Bane looks really powerful but you don't get it until 5th level. The class still looks pretty meh until 5th level. Can someone throw together a 4th level Inquisitor build and show me why it's strong?
Off the top of my head
Human Inquisitor
Level 1 feat: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Level 3 feat: Rapid Shot
Pick a teamwork feat.
Decent archer. Judgment brings up attack bonus to effective full BAB. Has access to first and second level spells, as well as domain abilities. For instance, Divine Favor + the Fate's Favored trait for a solid buff on two arrows a round.
Half-orc Inquisitor
Level 1 feat: Enforcer
Level 3 feat: Power Attack
Bonus: Precise Strike
Redemption inquisition makes any weapon he wields Merciful. Between racial bonus, FCB, and class bonus to intimidate, he should be able to consistently debuff targets while also dealing a fair amount of damage.
Inquisitor is THE Tier 3 class. Every other class in Tier 3 should be measured against the Inquisitor, because it pretty much defines what T3 should be.So what you are saying is that it's a well designed class and a balanced class but not a strong class? That's what I'm trying to determine. Is it what some people would classify as a Tier 1 or Tier 2 class? Also, my interest is more around low to middle levels as I never play high levels (beyond about level 12 or 13).Additionally, of the best things about the inquisitor is that they ahve a VERY HIGH build optimization floor, even if their cieling isn't the highest.
In other words, they are REALLY FREAKING HARD to screw up build wise. They pretty are always at least decent, if not very strong.
Of the first party material, ya Inquisitor and Alchemist are my picks for what a balanced class should look like. Overall though, my vote goes to the Psychic Warrior PF update by Dreamscarred Press. Really the 3.5 Psychic Warrior was already the best "build pretty much anything" class, but the Paths and some excellent archetypes (Meditant!) really just make the PF version the best possible "build anything" class, while still being tier 3.
Wanna two hand and go to town? Psychic Warrior has your back! Want to be an archer (or even a thrower!)? Psychic Warrior's got this. Want to be a flexible caster type? Psychic Warrior got some Expanded Knowledge for you. Want to be the KING OF SMACK!? Psychic Warrior got more tools to go to SMACKTOWN!
Psychic Warrior: Accept no substitutes.
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Dreamscarred did an excellent job with the psionic classes in general. I'd highly recommend them!
The class still looks pretty meh until 5th level. Can someone throw together a 4th level Inquisitor build and show me why it's strong?
I don't think that's really an issue with the Inquisitor so much as with low level play in general.
This is assuming that he has Divine Favor running and is using the Sacred Healing Judgment. You literly have to kill him to stop him. In addition to the fast healing he can also cast cure light wounds on himself to make him even more difficult to take down.
He dumped CHA completely but still has every social skill at +6 and only had to put one point into it to get it. He has a +8 to identify monsters and an insane intimidate. The reason I took Blistering Invective was to be able to demoralize all opponents within 30’ of him.
Half-orc inquisitor of Irori 4 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 38)
LN Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 12, flat-footed 17 (+7 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 31 (4d8+8)
Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +6
Defensive Abilities ferocity, orc ferocity
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 falchion +11 (2d4+9/18-20)
Ranged mwk composite longbow +9 (1d8+6/×3)
Special Attacks judgment 2/day
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 4th; concentration +2)
At will—detect alignment
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 4th; concentration +6):
2nd (2/day)—blistering invective{super}UC{/super} (DC 14), invisibility
1st (4/day)—cure light wounds, divine favor, expeditious retreat, true strike
0 (at will)—detect magic, disrupt undead, guidance, light, sift{super}APG{/super}, stabilize
Domain Conversion Inquisition
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 7
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 19
Feats Ferocious Resolve[ARG], Intimidating Prowess, Precise Strike[APG]
Traits armor expert, wisdom in the flesh
Skills Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Disguise +6, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (arcana) +4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (nature) +4, Knowledge (planes) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Perception +8, Ride +4, Sense Motive +11, Spellcraft +4, Stealth +4, Survival +6, Swim +6; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Orc
SQ monster lore +4, orc blood, weapon familiarity, solo tactics, stern gaze +2, track +2
Other Gear +1 agile breastplate, +1 falchion, mwk composite longbow, 1,275 gp
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Special Abilities
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Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Ferocity (Ex) Fight without penalty even while disabled or dying.
Inquisitor Domain (Conversion Inquisition) Deities: Any deity.
Granted Powers: You are a powerful persuader. A honeyed tongue empowered by divine argumentation sways the indifferent and adversarial to your side.
Judgment (2/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Monster Lore +4 (Ex) +4 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) If brought below 0 Hp, can act as though disabled for 1 rd.
Precise Strike +1d6 precision damage for melee attacks if you and an ally with this feat flank the same target.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
Track +2 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Wisdom in the Flesh (Disguise) Disguise becomes a Wisdom-based, class skill.
Additional bonus: While Discern Lies is not a very good SLA to ahve on a class that usually dumps Cha, it does allow you to qualify for Arcane Strike, which is a pretty cool feat.
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1. Where do you find this list of Tiers?
2. Who died and made said person(s) the authority on what is and/or is not "better"?
3. Is this an overall scale, or does it vary by level? A barbarian, for example, is heavily front-loaded in terms of power, while an arcanist is less so.
4. How is measurement of what is/is not higher/lower tier determined? DPR? Utility? Amount of system mastery required for viability?
The Teir system measures the ability of a class to adjust to scenerios or have answers or options.
For instance:
Fighters are VERY low teir (tier 5... maybe) Because their only option is to swing their stick at it. They don't have IN CLASS (i.e. not from UMD/Items) options to really affect the narrative much. Now that is not to say they are useless (they can still kill things VERY quickly if they can hit it), but they just don't have many options
On the other hand, the WIzard is a Tier 1. This is because he can (theoretically) have an answer for everything. Additionally, the wizard can affect narrative like no body else. For instance, lets say you have this big battle scene where a city is being seiged. A Wizard is theoretically capable of making a seige pointless because he can open a portal to another city/Plane of Existance for supplies. Yes you can say "well what if there was a dimensional anchor over the city" but that is simply the GM answering the Wizard's inherent capabilities.
Tier 3s are the "balanced" classes if you will. These are the Bards, the Inquisitors, and the Alchemists. If they focus they can do 1 thing well and do many other things well enough. They are the "optimal balance" point if you will.
The inquisitor is a very strong class. What people are saying is that it is not the strongest in any one thing. The inquisitor is a close second in almost every category. He is not the strongest at melee damage, but comes close, he is not the strongest spell caster, but is not that much below the top casters. The same is true with almost everything else.
Having no weakness also makes for a very strong character. A fighter can be shut down with a spell targeting will save, a wizard can be shut down by preventing him from casting, but it is almost impossible to shut down an inquisitor. Even when he is out of spells and other resources he can still fall back on the fact he is a ¾ BAB class that can use decent armor.
Another thing that makes the inquisitor powerful is that most, if not all his abilities stack. Judgments are a sacred bonus, he can get both moral and luck bonuses from spells. This allows him to go nova like no one else.
I would rate an inquisitor as a tier 1 class just because he has so much going for him. At high levels the full 9 level casters may pull ahead a bit. Chose a race that favored class bonus can increase your spells known and you will have a very strong character.
The Tiers do not rate raw power...
But the strength of the Inquisitor is that he CAN do so many things well. I mean, just about anything you can think of, you can probably do with an inquisitor.
Inquisitor is one of those glorious classes that can be built as anything, is loaded with flavor, including it's archetypes, all of which are effective whilst being flavorful. It balances versatility with power, utility with combat readiness, and skill with durability. You could potentially build a full-caster Inquisitor and have him remain an effective member of the party, depending on your archetype and focus.
Inquisitor, much like the Bard, is the paragon of what a class should be able to do solo, as well as with a group.
I can say I actually built a very casty Inquisitor...
Focused more on buffs and dispel and took advantage of the anti-caster inquisitions.
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I highly recommend the Menacing weapon property for any melee inquisitor already utilizing the Outflank teamwork feat.
I once had an inquisitor who used this with his Bane and Judgement (justice) class abilities and heroism spell to gain a net +12 bonus to attacks over everyone else. The fact that it boosted my allies' flanking bonuses by at least +2 as well was simply amazing to all involved.
From the 2nd round of every combat onward, I was the most accurate combatant in the party. Not even the fighters and barbarians could keep up unless they were very well built.
And I couldn't believe how versatile he was! He was a great party face, an excellent tracker and trap setter, a top-notch front-liner, party buffer, and lore master. He could also craft magic items, escape capture, completely shut down most enemy spellcasters (silence spell) or even commit acts of larceny better than any rogue (invisibility, knock, silence, rogue skills) all the live long day.
In the opening round he could put on his armor, pull out his sword, equip his shield, activate one of his class abilities (such as bane or judgement), study his foe and alert his allies to its strengths and weaknesses, AND make an attack or cast a buff spell. That's a level of action economy that can only be matched by the magus or a spellcaster with Quicken Spell and/or a familiar. Catching him by surprise was next to impossible, and even if the bad guys managed it, he could go from "huh?" to "ha!" in the blink of an eye.
I wholly agree that the inquisitor is an amazing class, and one of the most balanced and well-rounded classes in the whole of the game.
Still, half orcs are great. Weapon choices are amazing, racial traits are great. I ALWAYS do fates favored with sacred tattoo and shamans apprentice for endurance.
Don't forget Divine Favor. If your taking fates favored anyway its a very strong early level buff.