Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I would argue that, when done well, hexploration is better than just "stick monster A into hex B"
Case in point:
If you explore the river hexes up north, you can find the place where it lost its crown, along with some stymphalian birds. When you bring the crown back to the naga, it offers you a piece of its treasure, which includes a number of magic items but also a strange piece of an ancient machine. That piece, along with a few other pieces you find scattered in the desert, lets you resurrect an awesome golem-suit thing you find near the big dungeon.
Elsewhere, I think in the same book, you can find a hex that contains a weird black metal spire that attracts lightning strikes. If you make the right checks, you can harness the magic of the spire to give your weapon the shocking quality for a short time.
Those are both fun, interesting encounters that you can't pull out of a bestiary. And while you could certainly script those (on day 1, you find encounter 1, etc) I think players enjoy finding those weird little secrets and sidequests organically, which is what makes hexploration fun.
I think players enjoy finding those weird little secrets and sidequests organically, which is what makes hexploration fun.
How are they to know what is "organic"?
What you describe as "Hexploration done right" seems to me more like "tie this specific thing to this part of the map."
We don't need to grind out hexes to build a kingdom map. We just need a map with points of interest on it for the GM.
That´s exactly the sort of encounters and interweaved patterns i highly enjoy! And also a very good way to do hexgrinding^^
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I think players enjoy finding those weird little secrets and sidequests organically, which is what makes hexploration fun.How are they to know what is "organic"?
What you describe as "Hexploration done right" seems to me more like "tie this specific thing to this part of the map."
We don't need to grind out hexes to build a kingdom map. We just need a map with points of interest on it for the GM.
But you don't want to put the points of interest on the map that the players see, they're supposed to be secret. Hell, sometimes you don't even want to put the terrain on the map, because it's uncharted wilderness.
So you give the players a blank sheet of paper, maybe with a town drawn on it.
How much can they explore in a day? How close do they have to get to a point of interest to find that location? How do they record what parts of the map they've explored?
Hex-based maps solve these problems. They can explore a hex in a day. They have to be in that hex or X hexes away from that location to find it. They can mark what hexes they've explored. The hexes also make it easier to draw in the terrain as they explore (since I don't know about you, but I'm not great at copying maps free-hand--having guidelines helps!).
And of course you don't need hexes to do all that. But they make running open-map exploration easier to run for me, as a player and a GM, so I like them :)
For titles, can we avoid SS/S&S, Carrion something and ?otR, if posible?
Too late. I already want to see Fall of the Righteous.
But you don't want to put the points of interest on the map that the players see, they're supposed to be secret. Hell, sometimes you don't even want to put the terrain on the map, because it's uncharted wilderness.
... And?
How much can they explore in a day? How close do they have to get to a point of interest to find that location? How do they record what parts of the map they've explored?
Hex-based maps rigidly codify these problems. They must explore a hex in a day. They have to be in that hex or X hexes away from that location to find it. They have to mark what hexes they've explored.
The hexes also make it easier to draw in the terrain as they explore
Or you could just hand them the blank copy of the map. Or make them draw their own.
And of course you don't need hexes to do all that. But they make running open-map exploration easier to run for me, as a player and a GM, so I like them :)
See, for me, they form a needless straightjacket to open-map exploration. Are we sitting down to run a mapping/surveying simulator, or are we sitting down to tell stories about characters of varying degrees of heroism doing things in a fantastic world?
When baked into an AP's design and required for advancement of the plot, as it was in Kingmaker, Hex-grinding is just one more bit of tedious bookkeeping getting in the way of telling the friggin' story.
I don't subscribe to APs for the mechanical nuts and bolts. I subscribe to APs for the plot and the characters to populate it.
I can't wait for the next hex exploration adventure;)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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See, for me, they form a needless straightjacket to open-map exploration. Are we sitting down to run a mapping/surveying simulator, or are we sitting down to tell stories about characters of varying degrees of heroism doing things in a fantastic world?
That's fair. I personally enjoy the structure they provide, but, you know, different strokes.
The cool thing is, since you subscribe to the AP, you get Paizo's neat interactive map .PDFs. That means you can turn off the hex grid on the map and run it without hexes, just like you describe.
Galt (Fall/Rise of the Grey Gardners!)
Rasmiran (Fall/GLory of a False God-King!)
Qadira (Genie revolt!)
Another Pirate-style Campaign (Linnorm Kings/Riddleport area...)
A return to Tian Xia! Either Kaiju oriented or something inspired by Wu Xia films
Distant worlds.
Great Beyond.
Kingdom building on a new continent.
First World.
... aaaaaaand:
- Alkenstar- Tech part two!
- Mythic part two!
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- Flumphs
(I would accept Vudra, ending Geb, recovering Nex, all about the Peacock Spirit, ending Razmir forever, something psychic/occult, and/or being a dragon, but I wouldn't be quite as overwhelmingly happy about it.)
((Also, it should be obvious I stole the first three posts right off the first page, soooooo...)
Apologies if this has already been suggested, but given the popularity of it - why not an all goblin focused AP?
Just because.
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Because goblins don't have a long enough attention span to go through an entire AP.
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If Galt isn't possible, I'd really go for something planar related, I never got to experience Planescape
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Apologies if this has already been suggested, but given the popularity of it - why not an all goblin focused AP?
Just because.
IIRC, we're getting a hobgoblin themed AP next year.
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What we really, really, really need though is a TianXia AP and more TianXia material. Jinin, Kaoling and Dhucharg with plenty of Hobgoblin geisha and samurai and warlords and intrigue and a plot to conquer Jinin.
Also an elven samurai deeply in love with a hobgoblin samurai, divided by society and scheeming elven and hobgoblin geishas.
Then something with Kraken Despots in Wanshou and the sorcerer nation of Dtang-Ma!
So many supreme stories and adventures lie hidden there!
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An AP that features Evil Outsiders other than Demons(*) and Devils(**).
(*)Wrath of the Righteous and prominent appearances in some other APs.
(**)Any Cheliax AP.
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What we really, really, really need though is a TianXia AP and more TianXia material. Jinin, Kaoling and Dhucharg with plenty of Hobgoblin geisha and samurai and warlords and intrigue and a plot to conquer Jinin.
Also an elven samurai deeply in love with a hobgoblin samurai, divided by society and scheeming elven and hobgoblin geishas.
Then something with Kraken Despots in Wanshou and the sorcerer nation of Dtang-Ma!
So many supreme stories and adventures lie hidden there!
The possibilities.
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Vikings vs Witches. Because Norse culture is the bomb, and so is the Land of the Linnorm Kings. Plus, there's witches right next store! It's the AP that has needed to be made, has not been made, and that's a true crime.
I mean, while Tian Xia got almost three whole books in Jade Regent, the Vikings got one. That's roughly three times more coverage! Definitely time for a Vikings vs Witches AP. The Linnorm Kings have been slighted, and they are ready for war!
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I have to strictly nope another "TianXia gets a short visit" AP.
And that would stink for most other places too.
It´s time other regions of Golarion get more explored!
Diversify! Make fantasy colorful again and not white only!
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Pathfinder has always embraced diversity, to imply otherwise is disingenuous at best.
I wouldn't say embraced diversity, but sprinkled it all over the place especially if just out of reach to tease us;)
We are talking continents here and some of those urgently need attention and love! ;)
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So, Mummy's Mask didn't have any diversity, a whole adventure exploring Shoanti culture, just a tease. Jade Regent means nothing.
And that's just the easy stuff, I haven't even mentioned lawful good homosexual half orc Paladins.
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So, Mummy's Mask didn't have any diversity, a whole adventure exploring Shoanti culture, just a tease. Jade Regent means nothing.
And that's just the easy stuff, I haven't even mentioned lawful good homosexual half orc Paladins.
Well , if you look at it for what it is, Jade Regent does mean nothing.
So, Mummy's Mask didn't have any diversity, a whole adventure exploring Shoanti culture, just a tease. Jade Regent means nothing.
And that's just the easy stuff, I haven't even mentioned lawful good homosexual half orc Paladins.
Maybe you understood something a bit wrong there.
Mummy´s Mask still plays in the Inner Sea.It´s an awesome AP that i really enjoyed, but i wish for something like that in TianXia.
There´s no need to get offended, but that´s of course your freedom. It also isn´t about critisizing Paizo things, so please don´t make it that.
That´s putting messages in other peoples mouth.
And please leave me alone with that gender-sexual orientation barrel you want to open there, because it´s not even remotely related to what i am talking about.
And in case you didn´t get it:
I´m talking about Golarion continents. Avistan, Casmaron, TianXia, Arcadia.
Talking about that doesn´t devalue any previous adventures either, it asks to add something.
In another thread, ~20 people making 1000 posts about dragon books just might have sparked a potential dragon book.
So take your negativity elsewhere please, i want to start the same for more Tian Xia content. If you want to support that, be welcome.
If not, walk away, swallow down your " i want something else" comments.
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An AP that features Evil Outsiders other than Demons(*) and Devils(**).
(*)Wrath of the Righteous and prominent appearances in some other APs.
(**)Any Cheliax AP.
I would really, really like to see daemons, asuras, or divs (in that order). It was nice to see a couple of asuras in Scourge of the Godclaw.
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I hope we're getting close to seeing a Taldor-based AP make it onto the schedule. It's such a central country in the story of the Inner Sea - I can't wait to see a 64-page campaign setting book or two.
I'm also still holding onto the hope of a megadungeon AP one day. Granted, it seems difficult to do using Pathfinder expectations of an ever more difficult number of level-appropriate encounters.
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A Quest for the Holy Grail style adventure path where the group are or travel with a group of Vikings on a long-ship (like 13th warrior?) and visit/explore many exotic locales such as Arcadia, Garund, Casmaron, the ruins of Azlant, Tian Xia and Sarusan.
You can organize it so that the group travels to one new continent/area per book. Consider it a world tour of Golarion taken to locate some ancient artifact, each location once a former stop for the artifact before it (and the party) move on to the next place. A grand quest, like for the holy grail, except the party doesn't split up :D
I just have trouble thinking about Holy Grails without thinking about Coconuts of Mountless Galloping, Witch Trials by Duck, and Holy Hand Grenades . . . .
Contributor
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So, Mummy's Mask didn't have any diversity, a whole adventure exploring Shoanti culture, just a tease. Jade Regent means nothing.
And that's just the easy stuff, I haven't even mentioned lawful good homosexual half orc Paladins.
Maybe you understood something a bit wrong there.
Mummy´s Mask still plays in the Inner Sea.
It´s an awesome AP that i really enjoyed, but i wish for something like that in TianXia.
Then maybe you shouldn't make accusations like "Diversify! Make fantasy colorful again and not white only!"
If you want Tian Xia content, say that. But don't accuse Paizo of racism to further your agenda.
There´s no need to get offended, but that´s of course your freedom. It also isn´t about critisizing Paizo things, so please don´t make it that.
That´s putting messages in other peoples mouth.
Then maybe you shouldn't make accusations like "Diversify! Make fantasy colorful again and not white only!"
Your words, from your post.
And please leave me alone with that gender-sexual orientation barrel you want to open there, because it´s not even remotely related to what i am talking about.
This is uncomfortable to read, to be honest.
Around here, though, that's an important aspect of diversity, just as relevant as nationality and race. You may not be talking about it, but when you accuse Paizo of not being interested in diversity, it becomes part of the conversation.
And in case you didn´t get it:
I´m talking about Golarion continents. Avistan, Casmaron, TianXia, Arcadia.Talking about that doesn´t devalue any previous adventures either, it asks to add something.
In another thread, ~20 people making 1000 posts about dragon books just might have sparked a potential dragon book.
So take your negativity elsewhere please, i want to start the same for more Tian Xia content. If you want to support that, be welcome.
If not, walk away, swallow down your " i want something else" comments.
So you're allowed to post over and over again about how badly you want a Tian Xia AP. But other people with other desires aren't allowed to disagree? Do you have any justification for why only your desires are appropriate for the thread, or are you just trying to bully other people away so that you might get your wish?
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Darn! beat me to it, perhaps i should've blown off work. :-)
For what it's worth, I'm not opposed to another Tian-Xia focused adventure path.
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It's not like there's a Galt AP coming out soon either, and I'm cool with that.
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Contributor
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Darn! beat me to it, perhaps i should've blown off work. :-)
For what it's worth, I'm not opposed to another Tian-Xia focused adventure path.
For the record, neither am I.
Also, that would probably be a good thread to post in if people want another Tian Xia AP. ^_^
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Contributor
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So you're allowed to post over and over again about how badly you want a Tian Xia AP. But other people with other desires aren't allowed to disagree?Hayato's been been banging this drum for a looong time.
-Skeld
I know - I didn't want to come down on him for that, though. ^_^
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We understand that, I'm usually cool with it, but it isn't alright to imply racism is involved.
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Racism has nothing to do with the long, long stay in the Inner Sea region. In point of fact, the folks at Paizo probably contain a fair few ardent partisans for just about every continent and cultural region they bothered to allow onto Golarion's surface. So saying it's about a Eurocentric worldview on Paizo's part is crap.
Sales numbers, on the other hand, do affect what gets greenlit. And while those are not released to the messageboard public willy-nilly, the sales on the Dragon Empires material have been mentioned as less than stellar.
Paizo is an awesome company full of awesome people... who have to make a living.
Take it from an L5R fan... the gaming industry punishes any and all missteps pretty harshly.
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It's not like there's a Galt AP coming out soon either, and I'm cool with that.
Personally, I miss the rampant capitalisation and exclamation marks. :(
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Sales numbers, on the other hand, do affect what gets greenlit. And while those are not released to the messageboard public willy-nilly, the sales on the Dragon Empires material have been mentioned as less than stellar.
I haven't heard any official comment for a while. My impression is still that there's a hardcore Tian Xia fanbase but that it's small. Nonetheless, I'd be curious to hear if the Dragon Empires Primer, Distant Shores and Dragon Empires Gazetteer were still on the left-hand side of the bell curve.
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Another reason that I've seen given by Paizo is that their campaign setting is called "The Inner Sea", not "Golarion". We have the Inner Sea World Guide, Inner Sea Races, etc., and to go beyond that for an entire adventure path would be akin to building an entirely new campaign setting, and require all the supplemental materials that entails.
I guess that's not impossible, but it is a good explanation for why it hasn't happened.
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Racism has nothing to do with the long, long stay in the Inner Sea region. In point of fact, the folks at Paizo probably contain a fair few ardent partisans for just about every continent and cultural region they bothered to allow onto Golarion's surface. So saying it's about a Eurocentric worldview on Paizo's part is crap.
Sales numbers, on the other hand, do affect what gets greenlit. And while those are not released to the messageboard public willy-nilly, the sales on the Dragon Empires material have been mentioned as less than stellar.
Paizo is an awesome company full of awesome people... who have to make a living.
Take it from an L5R fan... the gaming industry punishes any and all missteps pretty harshly.
Ah but could part of that problem not be more because most the dragon empires stuff for adventures has been pretty high lvl (Module was 11+ and in Jade regent you dont actually get to the dragon empire till your about halfway through so again 10+) and has been mentioned before higher lvl stuff does not sell as well as lower lvl (Which would then have the possible knock on affect of those people not buying the support books.)
Also in regards to Jade regent it is possible a lot of people that were otherwise interested were put off due to the way it was set up (Ie they wanted to start in the Dragon empires not spend half the ap trying to get there.) So were put off from buying any of it.
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Ah but could part of that problem not be more because most the dragon empires stuff for adventures has been pretty high lvl
The Primer and Gazetteer are both more useful at creation than later, so... not really?
Also in regards to Jade regent it is possible a lot of people that were otherwise interested were put off due to the way it was set up (Ie they wanted to start in the Dragon empires not spend half the ap trying to get there.) So were put off from buying any of it.
This, however, is a fair point. Varisia/Linnorm Kingdoms/Crown of the World and THEN Tian Xia could indeed be a bit of a buzzkill for someone who just wants to play a samurai all the way.