For a new Pathfinder game we are rolling stats for characters.
This time it is specifically done in such a way that 'what you roll is what you get' so no switching numbers afterwards... the first thing you roll is strength, then dex, then con, etc.
I rolled the following:
Str 12
Dex 14
Con 8
Int 14
Wis 9
Cha 17
I'm seeing the following class possibilities:
Bard, Oracle or Sorcerer, and maybe a social rogue...
other than that I'm not sure about race or class.
Summoners aren't allowed.
I was wondering what you guys would do?
I was thinking about playing a Bard but the Con penalty really hurts, and I think I might end up just being a lousy sorcerer in that case.
On the other hand, a sorcerer seems to be a pretty okay choice.
I'm mostly worried about the Con issue here... I think taking the Toughness feat is going to be pretty much necessary.
I was thinking about playing a Gnome to heighten my Cha and fix my Con but I'm not sure what Gnomes are good at... and what kind of Gnome sorcerer works best for a versatile character.
Assuming I agreed to that insane stat acquisition process in the first place ...
Probably a Sorcerer that intends to keep his distance. Learn a few summons to provide some bodies between you and the enemy.
personally, i'd go for a wildblooded sorcerer with the sylvan bloodline, or an oracle with the lunar mystery...
use your animal companion to protect you and stay away from spells that make you get to close to combat (no touch spells, even burning hands is pretty dicey).
the oracle has slightly more hp but the sorc probably has better spells (depending on what you want to do). even with this kind of build you might still want to take toughness (and maybe fcb to hp too).
edit: partially ninja'd... gnome is a good choice for race.
with the sorc taking boon companion at 3rd should be fine- it does nothing at first level so 2nd is the only level you'd miss anything, but the ACs start with 2 HD and should be ok to make it to 3rd level.
Gnome sorcerer. Small races make good casters, because the +1 AC and +4 stealth might keep you a bit safer, and the small weapons and don't matter. 20' move is a pain, but you can't have everything. Swap out Obsessive, Defensive Training and Hatred for something more useful (eg Academician and Eternal Hope).
Alternatively, halfling sorcerer. Get Fleet of Foot (30' move) but the rest is all good. You'll certainly need Toughness, but +1 to all saves makes up for losing the Gnome's +1 Fort for Con.
Oh, and always get HP with your favored class.
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Gnome or Halfling paladin (mounted?) archer? I'm thinking gnome, with the alternate obsessive racial trait, and be kind of sagey with Knowledge religion and nobility. The swift-action self-healing should keep you up and fighting. And the good Fort and Will saves will counter your poor Con and Wis. And Cha to saves to boot.
Gnome sorcerer would be pretty legit. As mentioned, wildblooded Fey/Sylvan can give you an animal companion guard/mount at level 4 to help with movement and squishiness. Also, Fey bloodline meshes well with gnome in general (thematically and mechanically); more as a controller than a blaster, but still effective.
Alternately, a halfling bard 5/dragon disciple 6/bard X with the Fleet of Foot alternate racial trait could also work as a decent archer (bards can use shortbows, including composite versions), skill-monkey, and support caster, using the favored class bonus for hp. Choose whichever archetype makes the best fit for the backstory and party needs.
First thought:
Gnome bard utilizing a bow. You have pretty good dex and no negative with str. Focus effects on your bow to add damage, flaming/frost/caustic/holy etc.
Focus you spell casting on illusions.
I assume that others have strange stats as well.
Second Thought:
I think a paladin could be a lot of fun with these stats as well. A Halfling paladin of Sarenrae taking weapon finesse and agile traits on his weapon. Low con wont be as large an issue as you have an abundance of lay on hands to keep you alive, not to mention high ac. Being a paladin will help the fact that you get a negative to 2 of your saves.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
We start at level 1 by the way.
I'm the only arcane character in the group so far, so I'm not very interested in playing an oracle. The other players are as of now (but this is still subject to change), a druid, a ranger(archer), and a ranger(twf)... yes we have two rangers I know! We sadly lack a rogue.
I still have some doubts whether I would play a gnome bard or a gnome sorcerer. The Gnome Sorcerer (Fey Bloodline) is very tempting... but I sorta feel like it would be a bit of a one-trick pony.
Gnome bard seems more fun to me right now, since they get bardic knowledge and a lot of skills. I get +2 int so being a skill monkey seems like a good idea. I get few spells but they're nifty enchantments and illusions, and they have high DCs thanks to my high Cha.
So my next question is, suppose I went Gnome Bard, what should I do when I'm not casting spells (which will be often)? I can maintain bardic performance as a free action, so I'll have plenty of actions to use.
First thing that comes to my mind is specializing in Intimdate by using versatile performance. Other than that I need a means of doing some solid offense. Maybe not per se in terms of damage but just by being useful.
As long as one of the rangers picks the trapper archetype you can be glad to not have a rogue. Ranger ist just so much better at being rogue.
Count me as another vote for Gnome Sorcerer. After you get a few levels under your belt, that 10 Con is going to become hardly noticeable with your magical defenses like mirror image, fly, stoneskin, etc. Then you can focus on a fighting style, battlefield control, summoning, blasting, whatever you want, you have the ability to alter the fabric of reality to your desire. ;)
If you do decide to go Bard, just stay in the back and be an archer whenever you aren't casting.
And as Wasum said, ideally one of the rangers (preferably the TWF) would take the Trapper archetype, negating the need for a rogue.
if you want to go with the bard, there are a few options for how to spend your rounds (while maintaining inspire courage):
- intimidate: you can be good at this, although a gnome takes a size penalty to checks (you might want to consider the idyllkin aasimar instead of gnome, aasimars have a great racial FCB for bards too); debuffing enemies while buffing allies can really change the tide of an encounter.
- attack: you definitely want to do this at range; with a medium BAB and fair Dex you're not wasting your action but you really can't afford the penalties for cover or firing into melee, so this is gonna be very feat intensive (and you won't have very many feats); dipping one level of gunslinger isn't a bad idea so you can make these attack against touch AC instead. gnomes get smaller damage dice, so aasimar is worth considering for this too.
- magic: using your spells is a good idea (you don't get extra xp for having leftover spells at bedtime), but you have a limited selection and less spells/day than a fullcaster... so keep your UMD maxed, and carry wands and scrolls- they'll expand your magical options (so you can fill more of the wiz/sor role too) and increase your resources (so you can use magic more often without running out).
all of these will benefit from investing some feats, which you'll have very few of... you could probably be pretty effective with both intimidate and magic, but if you want to be good at attacking its pretty much gonna eat up all your resources.
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Ignore all these low-con haters. ;)
Kitsune Sorcerer, Fey (not Sylvan) bloodline. Always take the alternate favored class feature to buff your Enchantment DCs.
Play up the Enchanter trope. "You're generally a bit sickly and can't take a hit... Which is why you make others take the hit for you!"
Be the party face, be the talker, be the manipulator. You have a great opportunity here to "break away" from the cookie-cutter nonsense that 90% of the posters here will tell you. :)
Focus on a small amount of powerful Enchantment spells, and use the rest of your Spells Known on more defensive utility that will affect more than just yourself (Create Pit, Magic Circles, Black Tentacles, etc.)
Avoid "flashy" spells. Fireball? That's not really your style.
8 Con means you shouldn't be a melee combatant. It doesn't mean the character is destined to fail.
My current party has an 8 Con oracle, and he hasn't died yet (we're 4th level now). But my 12 Con inquisitor did die, so now I'm playing a paladin. (We got lazy with healing up, so my paladin is a heal bot extraordinaire!)
Remember, if you boost defenses (AC, Saves, miss chance, Stealth, etc.), low hit points don't REALLY matter because you're not getting hit. Well, the matter a little bit....
And definitely play what you want. Just suggest that one of the rangers plays an urban ranger so your party gets Disable Device/Trapfinding...
If I had to have those stats for some reason...
I would make a Halfling Crossblooded Sorcerer (Orc/Draconic) who burned things.
If I lived to be level 7 (unlikely, but I get passive aggressive when forced to play characters who aren't in my top 100 choices, and anything with a constitution and wisdom penalty is not in my top 100 choices) I would be one scary pyromancer.
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My serious answer mechanically would be an Archery Paladin. CHA to saves offest the poor Con and Wis, and and Smite would make up up for the low STR and DEX.
However, if you are forced to roll in order for stats, I'm sure you GM is also going to be playing Old Skool with paladins, and you would probably fall just for using a bow.
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However, if you are forced to roll in order for stats, I'm sure you GM is also going to be playing Old Skool with paladins, and you would probably fall just for using a bow.
Memories, I once played a Paladin in 2nd edition who actually literally fell in the first combat of the first adventure for using a bow, rather than trying to get in front of the fighter who had higher strength and HP. Yeah, me and some of the other players quit right then and never played under that GM again, but I know the exact attitude.
Also, only standard races... forgot to mention that.
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Your character is gonna be a real trouble maker: high Int and Cha means you can make plans and convince others it's a good idea, low Wis means you're making horrible plans or not considering all the consquences. Sounds like a great scoundrel! Paladins can be scoundrels, right?
Also, only standard races... forgot to mention that.
That sucks. Oh well - Go Halfling then.
Gnome is an awful suggestion, lol.
Halfling is the way to go. Higher saves. Higher initiative. Higher AC. Can opt into a 30ft move speed instead of being stuck with a 20ft speed.
And as a spell-caster, your Con is pretty inconsequential.
Unless the game is going to heavily revolve around Giants, Reptilians, and Goblins. Then I suppose they become a reasonable choice. :P
A halfling paladin gets you 10 Str, 16 Dex, 8 Con, 14 Int, 8 Wis, 19 Cha. That's +5 to saves once you hit 2nd level. +5 to hit with ranged attacks at 1st level (+9 when smiting).
Ignore all these low-con haters. ;)
Yeah - my how the times have changed...
I would suggest a class that is not involved in upfront fighting. Your high charisma lends its self well to sorcerer or bard, as you/others have suggested.
I'd probably play the con into the character's background and story line. Get a good stealth check, always have an invisibility/gaseous form spell on hand to be able to get away, etc.
Other people have recommended strong options for a spellcaster already and really that's probably the way to go.
However, there is another very legitimate option. A halfling paladin archer. Go with the divine hunter archetype, and take the alternate racial feature that gives you 30 move speed. Your con needs fixing but not that bad. you won't have the feats to pick up toughness unfortunately, and your lack of str means you will have a hard time with damage early on. However when you smite you will do quite well once you get rapid shot.
For feats
1 point blank
1 precise shot (b)
3 rapid shot
5 deadly aim
7 many shot
after that you are golden you can't really screw up your build as you are already golden but improved precise shot, and that feat chain that makes you not provoke, and allows you to threaten with a bow are good choices. Or at this point you could take toughness.
Remember however that despite the fact that you are a martial with base 8 con you are far from defenseless. You have d10 hd when you smite something you get your cha mod to ac as deflection, and you can lay on hands yourself as a swift once per turn if you are in trouble. Still I'd get a belt of con +4 then upgrade it to include dex then str.
One thing to remember when you buy your magical bow make it a +0 composite bow. That way you can add adaptive to it when your strength changes later on. Also your saves will all be fantastic even without a cloak.
Normally for this build I'd recommend taking the alternate favored class bonus but a stronger lay on hands or more hp? Up to you.
I want to second the recommendation for halfling rogue or bard. Those sound fun.
For Bard, carry a shortbow and use Arcane Strike. You'll spend the first part of combat starting a performance and probably casting a few party-assisting spells, but arcane striking is a free and repeatable way to still contribute quite well to combat for as long and as often as you need.
You also have a few cantrips that are reusable. Occasional uses of Flare and Unwitting Ally are fun ways to harass enemies and help allies without convincing your foes to focus on you, and fun uses of prestidigitation and ghost sound can help you mess with enemies' heads. And remember to keep the occasional Vanish or other panic button available in case you're in danger.
As of 4th level, your bard can cast invisibility on himself and decrease the chances that enemies will pick fights with him -- they can still hear him casting enchantments on allies and performing etc, but as long as you're not hostile, they have better targets than the guy who they have to guess at and strike blindly.
I also like the archery paladin suggested above. You're looking at great HP, AC & saves, and you'll be a decent half-archer and half-healer.
I should mention though:
Remember that you're playing a game where the players are expected to be flawed and seriously underpowered. Yes your con is low, but if your GM isn't lowering the threat level of enemies to make sure the players can still have fun and function, then he has the wrong attitude. Don't wrap your build around compensating for -1 con mod -- instead embrace this weakness and have fun with it, play smart and imagine how your character would live his life (I snap like a twig so I'm no good at brawl'n, but then Cousin Kim taught me how to burn things!). A couple of measures to compensate for low HP are in order, but make sure you vary it up so you can like your build when you're done -- so you're not trapped with a survivable character who doesn't connect with you, you know?
Better to risk death and have fun doing it than survive as a long-term "meh".
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Assuming I agreed to that insane stat acquisition process in the first place ...Or alternatively dont use such a terrible system for determining scores.These kids today ;) lol.
Just because it's been a terrible way to make characters for 30+ years doesn't mean it's not a terrible way to make characters. ;)