Hello, folks.
I'm posting this mostly out of curiosity regarding how people treat summoners and their eidolons in their campaign setting. People who play PFS or just play in Golarion in general could also help enlighten me how things work there, because I've never gotten quite how the summoner class interacts with that particular setting.
So, like, in our homebrew setting, "eidolon" isn't necessarily an in-game term. "Summoner" and "eidolon" are just terms used by other spellcasters and people interested in magic to refer to a special kind of conjuration specialist who is able to form a special bond with a unique outsider. So an eidolon could, for instance, be an angel or a demon or a protean, etc., who for some reason or other has been bound to a mortal conjuror and as part of that bond has gained new abilities and lost old ones, depending on the stats of the critter. We've also included a sort of malleable, shapeless outsider race, the original eidolons, if you will, which a summoner player who doesn't want to get tied down to all the baggage pre-existing outsider races carry with them can pick. In the lore of our setting, the art of creating a summoner bond with an outsider was first applied to these proto-eidolons in ancient times, and only later did summoners learn to bond with angels, extraplanar undead, etc..
Anyway, how do you handle eidolons in your games? Is there some way you've found works very well or is more limiting? I'm definitely also looking for advice and tips if you have them, even though this is more a flavor than a crunch question.
In my game, the character's eidolon was a piece of his soul that that been splintered off. While the character believed he was a tielfing, in truth he and the eidolon were actually once the same creature, a glabrezu that had pissed off its abysal overlord and had been punished by being split apart and banished to Golarion. This was metaplot that was slowly relieved over our sessions, in part by the eidolon taking on a more glabrezu-ish shape. I was happy bending some rules and we had a session where the player played the eidolon solo as his PC had been charmed. Made for an interesting turnabout…
That sounds like a really cool concept. I should clarify that in our setting we definitely are open to incorporating things like that, i.e. specific individual summoners or certain archetypes might have a slightly different story than the "special way of bonding with X outsider" scheme I outlined above. Like obviously a shadow caller summons a shadow plane thing that's bonded with his own shadow, etc.. But I really like your soul shard concept, and might well steal it for an upcoming character!
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Well, an Eidolon is supposed to be a powerful outsider. The Summoner can only summon an aspect of that Eidolon, not the entire thing. I'd suppose that once you're at level 20 he'd be "complete", but for all I know it might as well be a demigod.
In other words, you'll never see a true Eidolon. At least, not until the GM figures out that it's the Eidolon handling you, not you handling the Eidolon.
Cue maniacal laughter.
Then again, sometimes it's just not a good idea to play with the character concept from another player. I guess my answer would be: "Whatever the player wants it to be."
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Well, I am going to post this link to the iconic summoner's backstory
I feel it is relevant to post this since I hear that the release of this was handled poorly (after the release of the class, it took over a year for the backstory and explaination of WHAT an eidolon is and how one becomes a summoner, which left things... flavorless). And truth be told, I still find it hard to navigate my way to the above link.
So officially, eidolons seem to be some sort of disembodied entity that seek out mortals with similar minds in order to have them make an image that can be made into a form.
On the details of what they are beyond that...well, it can be very much up to you, particularly in a homebrew setting. For instance, you could make this mysterious dimension filled with disembodied entities into something like the Rift of Repose. As in, you could make it the place where outsiders go when they 'die'. Thus, their attempts to contract with mortal summoners would be a method by which they can claw their way back into existence.
But I really like your soul shard concept, and might well steal it for an upcoming character!
Glad you liked. It gave us some good gaming and interetsing twists in his story! Feel free to steal away! Good luck.
One thing we've got going in our setting is that a lot of these "true" or "original" eidolons (i.e. the ones who weren't originally angels or aeons or whatever) work for our setting's god of magic as his sort of "angels". I once had a character concept where the eidolon was an ordained priest of the god of magic, and the summoner was sort of his mortal deacon or assistant or whatever. The Reverend Philip Mordax, was the eidolon's full name. He was a big guy in a trench coat and Solomon Kane-hat whose face was held in shadow and out of whose voluminous sleeve tentacles of pure magic shot out. Good times.
@lemeres: Oh! I didn't even know they had done a bio for Balazar. Must check out!
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Ever read the Bartimaeus Trilogy?
For me, it's that.
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That's one of the things I like about eidolons: the vague nature of them. It allows for interpretation in game. There's a Legendary Games product, with pregenerated characters for the Carrion Crown AP, where the summoner's eidolon is a manifestation of the soul of a great warrior ancestor.
I wrote an archetype for Chelaxian summoners where the eidolon is a hellbound soul that the summoner is given use of to shape into a new type of fiend, in exchange for their soul at the end of life, of course.
Been tossing around the idea of a summoner whose eidolon is a manifestation of the character's inner will, the childhood "imaginary friend" made real, and another where the eidolon is the Hyde to the summoner's Dr. Jekyll.
I haven't read Bartimaeus, but I know the basic premise. That definitely resonates with the way we tend to run a lot of our eidolons. I somewhat dislike the idea that the summoner and eidolon have to share an alignment. I mean, a daring CG gnome summoner with a straitlaced LG eidolon who's always having to look out for him so his pranks and jaunts don't go all haywire has a lot of dramatic potential in my view, but ain't really allowed by the official rules.
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I'm considering, if I ever get a game where I can play a kid, playing a kid summoner who believes his eidolon is his dead tiefling best friend who came back to go help him out after dying and realizing his "true" form. Whether or not that's the truth or not, though...
.....make the tiefling friend into someone who was much older than the kid. That way, when the kids starts to get older, the fixed image of his dead friend as a 'bigger person' would translate into an natural growth in proportions (as in the large evolution).
Sorry, but I just got that image in my head, and needed to share it (I think I might of gotten the idea from the Venture Bros). It does work well with the idea that the eidolon's form is based off of the summoner's mental image, perception, and imagination.
Anyway, back on topic: even if you do use something akin to the setting's definition of eidolons, do not feel like you need to constraint your character to the nation of Nex or something. I'd imagine that the rift in Balazar's story was simply a manmade version of some natural occurrence. And heck, even that 'shocked white hair' thing could simply be noted as an effect similar to gnome bleaching, and it would not apply to other races (some similar marking of age or unusual nature would be cool though).
Eidolons are essentially whatever you want them to be.
One of my characters had an eidolon who was essentially a summoned aspect of an extremely powerful dragon. The idea was that extremely powerful (nearly god level) creatures could begin splitting of avatars and aspects of themselves, and summoners could make pacts to summon one of these aspects.
Another character I ran was a synthesist summoner. His eidolon was a shadow creature that actually resided in the character's shadow most of the time, and when he 'summoned' it the eidolon would come out of his shadow and envelop him. Plus, part of the backstory was that the eidolon used to be much more powerful, but lost that power and was now stuck in the character's shadow. When the summoner was 'evolving' the eidolon, he was really helping it regain its former power.
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The random backgrounds for the various classes (I think from Ultimate Campaign?) suggest that eidolons can come from a variety of sources. I have a PFS summoner who is a halfling librarian. Upon learning about a great halfling paladin and his celestial riding dog mount in her family history, she tried to summon her ancestor's spirit (having studied books on summoning in the course of her profession), but ended up with a mischievous, serpentine dog-like creature that seems to be more the paladin's mount than him.
Our eidolons so far:
1) a disgraced Pasha shaitan who, in granting a wish to a cruel drow mistress, twisted it, forcibly destroying her, and forever binding himself to whomever his next would-be-master would be, by transforming them into his drow mistress (though leaving their mind and levels intact); now it acts as a lawful neutral slave to a lawful neutral former-human-now-drow young woman who had wished for long life and great power...
2) the left-over remnants of the shattered spirit of a cornugon (horned devil) murdered as part of a failed Chelaxian experiment to control demons; the husk was taken by a human slave at the orders of his master... and accidentally bonded with it; now used as a CG liberator of the oppressed with little to no trace
And that's pretty much it.
For me, they are the Aeons of Final Fantasy X.
Anima. Just . . . Anima.
I've been toying with a campaign idea where each Eidolon is one of the 72 demons of Soloman
So there are never more than 72 eidolons at one time?
EDIT: "is" to "are"
In King of Chaos the barbarian tribes living on the edge of/in the Worldwound call summoners "God Callers" and they call their gods. It would seem that the same god (eidolon) is called by successive generations of god callers (summoners).
I also had an idea to play a summoner/eidolon relationship a little bit like The Ventriloquist/Scarface from Batman. Except they would be good or neutral aligned instead of being evil. Either way, the eidolon would be the one in control of the relationship, not the summoner. I haven't had a chance to play it yet...
While Summoners exist in golarion in other parts of the world i think that the lore around Sarkoris and the Kellids is the only place that has alot of lore around them. Maybe more info was added in wrath of the rightous?
Anyhow i remember one of the twons had been summoning variations of a lobster themed eidolon for generations.
Really, i think its an undefined outsider entity that gets access when Summoned. But no one i play with has really pushed the deeper meaning of them.
We have a synthesist who is re-connecting with a past life. Long ago, before the prime plane was solidified, he was a powerful dragon.
All of his languages, skills, abilities, are simply the character 'remembering' his past lives more clearly and manifesting more and more of his past glory.
For some reason I always think of them like Frankie in the old Hanna-Barbara Frankenstein, Jr. cartoons.
Since almost anything can be reflavored ... what do you WANT it to be?
So there are never more than 72 eidolons at one time?
EDIT: "is" to "are"
That's kind of the idea. More accurately there are 72 "approved" Eidolons. any out side the approved 72 is a heretical demon and both it and the summoner must be purged.
It's just part of a setting idea I've been bouncing around
You know, my animus (the other kind) against summoners might have been considerably less if they had been flavored instead as Animators, with eidolons that had the Construct or Undead type. ;)
Why?
There is LPJ's Machinesmith, you can take a Mechanical construct as their Greatworks option
You know, my animus (the other kind) against summoners might have been considerably less if they had been flavored instead as Animators, with eidolons that had the Construct or Undead type. ;)
You can do that with an open-minded enough DM. Personally, I like the whole "it's pretty much any magical creature you want" angle they took. Of course, because the Eidolon is so much more powerful, I tend to prefer them in combat-lite games.
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Basically, anything you want. It's the one thing I like most about the summoner -- it's a class that encourages you to make a story about your main class feature.
Maybe your eidolon is an imaginary friend that turned out to be real.
Maybe your imagination gave birth to the eidolon -- it's a physical representation of your fears and darkest desires.
Maybe the eidolon is your greatest invention that you end up spending a lifetime figuring out how you created it in a night of bitter drunkeness.
Maybe your eidolon is an ancestor from a distance past.
Maybe your eidolon is yourself from the future.
Maybe your eidolon is the spirit of a loved one tied to an item you own.
Maybe your eidolon is the spirit of a haunted deck of cards that lets you materialize the cards into monsters.
Maybe your eidolon is actually your wife! A magical genie you had to marry because you drew The Marriage from the harrow deck of many things.
Maybe you are the eidolon. Your corporeal body is merely a puppet you control.
Well, I am going to post this link to the iconic summoner's backstory
I feel it is relevant to post this since I hear that the release of this was handled poorly (after the release of the class, it took over a year for the backstory and explaination of WHAT an eidolon is and how one becomes a summoner, which left things... flavorless). And truth be told, I still find it hard to navigate my way to the above link.
So officially, eidolons seem to be some sort of disembodied entity that seek out mortals with similar minds in order to have them make an image that can be made into a form.
On the details of what they are beyond that...well, it can be very much up to you, particularly in a homebrew setting. For instance, you could make this mysterious dimension filled with disembodied entities into something like the Rift of Repose. As in, you could make it the place where outsiders go when they 'die'. Thus, their attempts to contract with mortal summoners would be a method by which they can claw their way back into existence.
I have to say i rather think they would keep the flavor of summoners and especially eidolons vague on purpose so as to leave it up to the player what their eidolon is exactly. Which in my opinion is a good thing, as testified by the many ideas already posted in this thread, as well as the 101 summoner concepts thread.
I had my summoner ask his eidolon where she came from more than once, and each time she would give a different answer. Sometimes she hints that she knew his patron goddess in a past life, sometimes she hints that she is an avatar of the goddess, and sometimes she denies existing at all before the first time he summoned her. My summoner eventually gave up on this question.
To me, Eidolons are Vestiges.
If you dont know who are those, check out the tome of magic and the binder.
EDIT: ^ This is also a decent origin story for a vestige. :)
To me, Eidolons are Vestiges.
If you dont know who are those, check out the tome of magic and the binder.
I think this was the basic idea, actually, or at least I get that strong implication, based on the little fluff that we've been given in the iconic summoner's story.
The eidolons there have a very "similar, but different" feel to vestiges, which is often how Paizo handles their own spin on similar things found in old D&D products (such as with goblins, aboleths, ghouls, intellect devourers, and serpentfolk-for-yaun-ti, among others).
A vestige, for the curious, in D&D 3.5 was a person or creature that had fallen beyond the edges of reality. In 3.5 they were probably (by implication, not explicit statement) sort-of-ish tied to the far realm (a place where reality's laws don't really function correctly) a bit, but that doesn't really exist in PF. A vestige could be a god (or godlike entity) that either ran away past reality, lost all of their worshipers and vanished from reality, or was killed... yet still continued existing; could be a mortal who, for some reason, was destroyed or consumed by their own obsessions or actions until they were moved beyond reality; or could have been something else entirely, including (possibly) a whole civilization that was snuffed out in a single instant. About the only thing that the vestiges' stories (where available - some stories were simply unknown) had in common was that they had, at some point in the past, either effectively died, or narrowly avoided death by cessation from existence; some hint of tragedy about them, at least partially their own fault.
In any event, these non-creatures from beyond reality were capable of being "bound" into a binder (a class in Tome of Magic) by way of drawing their special sigil (unique to each); they would appear, make a bargain which granted the binder power and themselves some taste of living/reality again, and voila, you've got the class. In the forging of the pacts, Binders had to make checks; a bad pact meant the eidolon vestige was partially in control (limiting some of the binder's actions), while a good pact meant that the summoner binder was in control (though s/he still showed sign of the pact by an unusual something on their body that varied from vestige to vestige).
While only a loose connection, the idea of disembodied spirits seeking to be brought into the world (and experiencing corporeal reality again) by forging a bond with a particular entity via a sigil (which appears as a sign on their body), from whence they gain supernatural powers does seem like a decent inspiration point.
It's quite possible that it wasn't a conscious decision on anyone at Paizo's part, but I kind of took it as their version of a binder from the beginning.
My summoner in pfs accidentally summoned an outsider which gave a fragment of herself to be the eidolon as a thanks for "the day of bonding", something like a coming of age.
His eidolon is a dear friend of the same age instead of a "minion". Though i've avoided making them an item.
A manifest figment of the summoner's imagination.