Paladin= game ruiners


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In my group, one of the pcs is a paladin who uses detect evil constantly. my problem with this is that i cant have anybody to be evil without him knowing and killing him. so is there a way that i can prevent the paladin from ruining every quest with an evil person.


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This is a player problem, not a paladin problem. A sociopath pretending to be lawful good isn't actually following the paladins' code of conduct. Strip him of his powers. Not quite sure how he got them in the first place.


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I will mention that there has been a rash of paladin-related threads of questionable validity lately, and there is a good chance this thread is going to draw some ire as a result.

Just because someone 'pings evil' doesn't mean they deserve to die; the punishment has to fit the crime, and all that. Frankly, such a character would not be a paladin for very long at all.

I recommend just banning the class. It's kind of like an appendix; it's not important, and you don't notice it until it's being a pain.


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Spells misdirection, Undetectable alignment and Ring of Mind Shielding.

Keep throwing evil guys at him and act frustrated and have mr. Under the radar come along. When you find the right opportunity backstab the hell out of the paladin and watch him go Wuuuuuuah?


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Well, first off enforce the rules correctly. A NPC under level 5 will not detect as evil unless they are Undead, an Outsider, a cleric of an evil god, or an antipaladin.

Secondly, within the confines of a city the paladin presumably has no authority to execute individuals or to enact the law unless he has sought the right to do so from the government (unlikely). So, attacking and executing people in a city is unlawful. Something the paladin (not the player) should understand. Let your player know this.

Outside of a city even if he detects them as evil it doesn't necessarily justify killing them. Your player isn't playing a paladin, he's just playing a killer.


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Evil is not criminal. Killing a person whose inclination is evil but who is not acting on it prevents their later redemption. It also presumes that thought and action are one, when they aren't. The paladin is overstepping his mandate. A DM would be well within his purview to warn him, then begin penalizing him or her if ignored.

A paladin may employ Detect Evil as a guideline, but may not use it as an infallible device of condemnation, judgment and execution, since it demonstrably isn't.

There are spells and devices which obscure alignment. If the paladin is the type to kill someone whose alignment he cannot discern, throw an undercover agent of good wearing a Necklace of Undetectable Alignment at him or her, then slap him/her down when they draw blade and attack and slay an ally in the fight against evil.

Hell, have another paladin of higher rank challenge him, explaining transgression. Perhaps an arse-whipping by another agent of good will get it through to this overly enthusiastic type.

Sovereign Court

Your thread is misleading. As Ciaran said above me, the paladin class isn't the problem. It's the players who have no clue as to how to play one.

Roger Moore wrote an article for Dragon magazine way back in the day titled "It's not easy being good". I think it should be required reading by anyone dealing with paladins. It may be dated, since it was written during 1st or 2nd edition days, but it is still good reading.


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The character is lawful. If a 10th level evil character is just sitting by the river, fishing, on vacation, with no armor and no weapons at hand- and the Paladin detects evil and kills him- that Paladin just committed a VERY chaotic act. He should have to atone.

Then have the high level evil guy's buddies come after him while he has no Paladin powers...

:)


do you have a link to that?


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http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?p=177857

I believe this is what cylyria was talking about.


Robert Carter 58 wrote:
The character is lawful. If a 10th level evil character is just sitting by the river, fishing, on vacation, with no armor and no weapons at hand- and the Paladin detects evil and kills him- that Paladin just committed a VERY chaotic act. He should have to atone.

A very evil act as well, I'd wager.


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We recently had a part of our game where we returned to a dungeon that we teleported out of to avoid a TPK.

What we found there was another party of adventurers, one of whom was an evil wizard that was much higher level then us.

The Paladin did not automatically attack; because that would be stupid, and even though he is stupid (Int 8) that would be stupid even for him.

Instead the evil wizard, who was the leader of the group, told us we were trespassing and we should leave.

We demanded to see their documentation, which was handed over and was confirmed to be valid.

By the laws of the city we were in the wrong, and left peacefully.

Long story short. Your paladin should not be killing everything just because their evil; that's wrong.


So this is a repost from the other thread-thats-not-a-thread (Ask your OP :))

XMorsX wrote:

1st of all: He cannot actually detect evil auras of creatures of 4 HD or less.

2ndly: there is the spell Undetectable Alignment and the item Ring of Mind Shielding

3rdly: Just because someone rings as evil, does not mean it is killing material. There are cities that are governed by lawful-evil people, starting to slaughtering people just because they are ringing evil is generally an evil act just be itself. What a LG PC would do is trying to change his aligment, make sure you remind this at your paladin.

However, for the times that you want to keep the evil identity a surprise, there are spells and items that let you keep your aligmnet secret.

--

And then I wrote- Not sure where you get the '1st of all' rule- and I might be wrong, but I think paladins in Pathfinder have no HD restrictions on the ability. That said, the rest, OP, is gold. Use your resources to confound the paladin.

Is the paladin using detect evil in civilized lands and just chopping the poor evil sods down?

Many civilized lands consider that Murder, a punishable offense, entitlement or not.

To answer your question, maybe use some CN baddies. CN is almost-Evil; it's about as close to evil one can get without poking the hive.

--Please note this post makes no effort to reconcile the OPs original gaffe of dual posts, nor does it make judgement on the snafu. But if the Pally is wonking your game, CN enemies do confound detect evil attempts.


Also make sure you are conveying the strength of the aura of evil. If you tell him its Evil-lite he shouldn't be immediately drawing and charging. If after questioning the person you find out he skims off of tax money the Paladin shouldn't be getting slash-happy.


David St. Augustine wrote:

http://www.efupw.com/forums/showthread.php?p=177857

I believe this is what cylyria was talking about.

thanks

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

The spell misdirection is low enough level to be common for evil spellcasters, and there may even be items that use it to do a similar thing.

Make note on how detect evil works and its limitations to your advantage. For example any creature with 4 or lower HD will not have an evil aura unless they are an undead, an outsider, a cleric, or a paladin.

A paladin's detect evil also has some limitations. Unlike the spell they can only focus on one creature or item within 60 ft. Keeping outside of that range, or offering a decoy, can be cheap ways of avoiding being detected. If there are multiple targets, make sure you enforce the one move action per target.

This single target change also means they have to have a line of sight on the target. The spell detect evil works on all possibly creatures and items within a 60 ft cone, so it could work even with cover in effect, and tell you the location of the auras within that range. Not so with a paladin's detect evil. If they must concentrate on a single target they need line of sight on them. So no detecting evil on the voice in the obscuring mist.

Lastly, it still can be blocked by certain materials, like a thin sheet of lead. Use that anyway you can imagine.

As for the paladin killing everything evil just because they have an evil aura you can have some serious consequences for such rash actions. If they are in a city, the city watch comes after them and arrests them. They are then held accountable to present evidence that justifies their actions or else suffer from being convicted of murder.

You can also threaten to have them fall for murder if they attacked an unarmed and nonthreatening evil creature. Stress that an evil aura is not justification enough for murder and that paladins are just as responsible for redeeming evil as they are destroying it.

If your paladin continues to kill creatures with evil auras you can actually use misdirection to give a good aligned creature an evil aura. This is actually a jerk move, and should be a last resort to convince him to stop. The moment he kills the subject of the spell he should fall, and you should make him work to figure out why.

Like I said, that is a big jerk of a move and should be used only as a last resort.


sword n' board wrote:
In my group, one of the pcs is a paladin who uses detect evil constantly. my problem with this is that i cant have anybody to be evil without him knowing and killing him. so is there a way that i can prevent the paladin from ruining every quest with an evil person.

(copied from other thread)

After he smites an old lady or child (or one disguised/polymorphed as something nasty with a suggestion to act suspicious cast on it)etc etc

and looses his paladin-hood he might think twice!!
Real evil is insidious after all. That kindly old lady and all the orphans in her orphanage... nothing like getting a paladin to kill them all and burn down an orphanage just because they detect as my puppet master evil gnome bard who likes a joke! Why so serious paladin?

I still miss the ole days when command was a command word of your choice- when the paladin brushed his horse down in the morning in his night shirt, or was training an aspiring youth the command: sodomise was always amusing.

MISDIRECTION
School illusion (glamer); Level bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature or object, up to a 10-ft. cube in size
Duration 1 hour/level
Saving Throw none or Will negates; see text; Spell Resistance no
By means of this spell, you misdirect the information from divination spells that reveal auras (detect evil, detect magic, discern lies, and the like). On casting the spell, you choose another object within range. For the duration of the spell, the subject of misdirection is detected as if it were the other object. Neither the subject nor the other object gets a saving throw against this effect. Detection spells provide information based on the second object rather than on the actual target of the detection unless the caster of the detection succeeds on a Will save. For instance, you could make yourself detect as a tree if one were within range at casting: not evil, not lying, not magical, neutral in alignment, and so forth. This spell does not affect other types of divination magic (augury, detect thoughts, clairaudience/clairvoyance, and the like).

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

people do bad things for many reasons, none of them should be just because they are evil.

Liberty's Edge

There's also Undetectable Alignment and Ring of Mind Shielding, which work fine.

Also, if your PC is killing anyone Evil aligned he meets, he's a crappy player and his Paladin-playing privileges should be revoked. Either by having him fall, or by simply telling him so OOC.


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lawful doesn't necessarily mean legal, and evil doesn't neccessarily mean illegal. and different paladins have different codes unique to the paladin that should be discussed with the DM. transform this guy into an inquisitor, problem solves.

have his deity (or a false proxy) tell him "my champion, you have done well at slaying evil by the roots, but we need you to face a far greater evil than the lesser evils of man, to face this more primal evil, i wish to promote you to inquisitor and allow you the freedom to defeat these evils, from whom my followers will inform you." then remake the players character as an Inquisitor, swapping wisdom and charisma if needed and retaining proficiencies and swapping feats as needed. the character may need to sell gear as needed at full price to buy better and more fitting stuff.


sword n' board wrote:
In my group, one of the pcs is a paladin who uses detect evil constantly. my problem with this is that i cant have anybody to be evil without him knowing and killing him. so is there a way that i can prevent the paladin from ruining every quest with an evil person.

Aside from what's already been said, there are a couple things you can do.

You could have a quest be dependent on the safety of an individual that pings evil

You could have someone have been the target of infernal healing.

You could have someone evil be seen as a paragon of virtue to the entire town. "Wait, Self-Righteous McStabberton just ganked Tom? Tom who donates all his money to orphaned-puppies-with-diseases Tom?"

I think the third option might be the most fun. Make the bad guy be socially untouchable, now the paladin has to out him to the town before the bad guy can do whatever it is that he is plotting.

If it is a high magic world and they are in a large town, you could also make it that "detect" spells are considered an invasion of privacy and are prohibited within city limits.

Shadow Lodge

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Misdirection spell. It's only level 2.

As another player suggested Undetectable alignment spell. Any measly 1st level Bard lackey can cast that on him at the start of every day. Sufficiently wealthy bad guys should invest in that. Plus, it's damn cheap. Can even make it permanency'd rather easily. Just have him use the misdirection on some neutral item he carries. Maybe even a LG item just to throw off the PCs. Bonus points if it's a soul gem of some other fool of a Paladin heh.

Option #2 for low magic baddies:

Evil that isn't threatening anyone isn't evil that should be smited. The Paladin code requires no evil act be committed. Murdering someone because they are evil is actually evil itself under RAW. Quite evil infact, sufficient to easily justify a fallen Paladin.

Anybody arguing otherwise has watched a bit too much Dexter. Paladin needs more than "I sensed his evil" to convince the local town guard. Have him get locked up in prison for murder. Better yet, strip him of his powers.

The Paladin doesn't decide how evil should be punished -- his deity does.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

It's been mentioned several times. Detect Evil has specific rules, fully a third of the folks on any bar are likely evil, but the bully who likes to steal lunch money won't detect as such.

Also as stated, "but he detected as evil" is not a valid defense to a murder charge in most courts of law, nor is the Paladin's deity likely to accept that excuse.

If the Paladin exhibits this behavior, warn the player. If it continues, then becoming a featless fighter seems to be what's warranted.

Now, with all of that said. If your concern is the Paladin keeps detecting evil on your evil quest giver and sees through the lies and shenanigans because of it, or if they are able to immediately recognize which member of the NPC choir is the most likely culprit of the crime, well that's just how it goes, other classes could have done so too with the right spell. It's not the Paladin's fault that you pitched him a fast ball and he hit it out of the park, use neutral bad guys and such.


sword n' board wrote:
In my group, one of the pcs is a paladin who uses detect evil constantly. my problem with this is that i cant have anybody to be evil without him knowing and killing him. so is there a way that i can prevent the paladin from ruining every quest with an evil person.

One of the first things we ever house-ruled was doing away with the Paladin's innate ability to Detect Evil, for both mechanical and role-play reasons... and we LOVE Paladins in our campaigns.

I suggest that you at least limit it to creatures of Evil subtypes.


Wiggz wrote:
sword n' board wrote:
In my group, one of the pcs is a paladin who uses detect evil constantly. my problem with this is that i cant have anybody to be evil without him knowing and killing him. so is there a way that i can prevent the paladin from ruining every quest with an evil person.

One of the first things we ever house-ruled was doing away with the Paladin's innate ability to Detect Evil, for both mechanical and role-play reasons... and we LOVE Paladins in our campaigns.

I suggest that you at least limit it to creatures of Evil subtypes.

what about the good aligned succubus cleric of Milani whom doesn't want anything to do with the evil acts of her demonic kin and honestly seeks redemption for the sins of her birth?

it's a good aligned succubus even with the evil subtype, but due to the darn subtype, will detect as evil, regardless of what good she has done.


He's already fallen.

A paladin would seek to reform and redeem an evil individual. Their first instinct would not be to murder an evil person. Killing people without proof of wrongdoing is unlawful and immoral.

Tell him that if he continues to act this way he will lose his status as paladin. He'll either start playing a paladin correctly or he'll lose his powers. Either way, your problem's solved.

As numerous others have stated, normal evil people don't radiate an aura of evil and there are ways to negate the detect evil ability.


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As others have said, if you don't conform the paladin to the many varied differing and opposing views everyone has on him, he falls immediately.

My 2 copper on the matter.

Detect Evil only pings on 5 hd and above. Thus evil that pings on it is HEFTY stuff and honestly a Paladin should KoS. Not all Paladins are redeemers. Ragathiel for instance has a special ritual that specifically dictates his followers to hunt down and kill an evil person every day. As for Misdirection, the Paladin can simply have the Wizard check for magical auras of the Illusion school after the first time it occurs(Since he'll be savvy to it). Also Misdirection on some random old lady wouldn't work unless she also had 5 HD. Undetectable Alignment pings on Detect Magic still and would set me on guard on why this Quest Giver showed up with buffs on.

Most Paladins work as champions of their deity and honestly? Real Deities would have far more pull on my beliefs than laws made up by a potentially corrupt government.

Evil People are Evil folks. They are truly down to their core Evil and reprehensible people. Killing someone who is Evil for "no reason but he's evil(Which means he's done something horrible in his lifetime or has been eking it out over the years but apparently that doesn't matter because the Paladin doesn't know that)" is still an objectively Good action in a world with Objective Morality. Evil was killed thus there is less Evil in the world which by comparison is Good.

Ultimately this comes down to different game expectations. Likely, you want Evil bad guys in disguise to jump your party whereas the Paladin wants his Evil up front and center for him to fight. He's likely not interested in the bait and switch. "Oh No! Lord Malkor the Terrible was really a bad guy! We've been tricked!" Neither is wrongbadfun.


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Scavion wrote:

Evil People are Evil folks. They are truly down to their core Evil and reprehensible people. Killing someone who is Evil for "no reason but he's evil(Which means he's done something horrible in his lifetime or has been eking it out over the years but apparently that doesn't matter because the Paladin doesn't know that)" is still an objectively Good action in a world with Objective Morality. Evil was killed thus there is less Evil in the world which by comparison is Good.

I've got to disagree with you. Killing people is never a good act. It may be a necessary act, but it's never good. Good is for the benefit of all, including evil people. When an evil person causes harm and refuses to turn away from his course of action, that's when the good person must act against them. Killing is the last resort, even if it's the best option.


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Good is ill served by sending the wayward and lost to their graves without a chance for redemption.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
colemcm wrote:
"... Killing people is never a good act. It may be a necessary act, but it's never good. Good is for the benefit of all, including evil people. When an evil person causes harm and refuses to turn away from his course of action, that's when the good person must act against them. Killing is the last resort, even if it's the best option.

What I can see here (and through so many post's in the threads) is a lack of consequences for one's actions.

If a person started hacking down people/locals at random (simply because they detected evil) then they would be locked and possibly executed for their crime.

a Lawful Good PC's follows his own Law, that is carried with him/her - and not necessarily the Law of the land (what if slavery or cannibalism is acceptable in the country you are currently travelling through?).

Issues arise in groups that aren't' experienced with Paladins but have opinions or ideas about how someone else's PC should be played (that said; some maturity is required to play a Paladin, it can be a demanding class, and not everyone I have met has got the balance right).

Which is why in PFS no-one at the table know's I play a Paladin (except the GM). The PC is simply a 'Holy Fighter'and I haven't had a single issue... that way I get to role-play my own PC without suggestions/hindrance from the table.


Umbriere Moonwhisper wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
sword n' board wrote:
In my group, one of the pcs is a paladin who uses detect evil constantly. my problem with this is that i cant have anybody to be evil without him knowing and killing him. so is there a way that i can prevent the paladin from ruining every quest with an evil person.

One of the first things we ever house-ruled was doing away with the Paladin's innate ability to Detect Evil, for both mechanical and role-play reasons... and we LOVE Paladins in our campaigns.

I suggest that you at least limit it to creatures of Evil subtypes.

what about the good aligned succubus cleric of Milani whom doesn't want anything to do with the evil acts of her demonic kin and honestly seeks redemption for the sins of her birth?

it's a good aligned succubus even with the evil subtype, but due to the darn subtype, will detect as evil, regardless of what good she has done.

Spoiler:
Good-aligned succubi lose the evil subtype just like fallen angels such as Dispater gain the evil subtype and lose the good subtype. Arueshalae of Demon's Heresy and onwards is proof of this, as her statblock explicitly says that if she becomes Cg rather than CN she loses the evil subtype.

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Static Hamster wrote:

...the evil wizard, who was the leader of the group, told us we were trespassing and we should leave.

We demanded to see their documentation, which was handed over and was confirmed to be valid...

Holy crap. You carded an evil wizard.


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Regardless of the nonsense that is the Lawful alignment, a paladin's code demands that they respect legitimate authority. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the paladin is probably operating in a society that is against murdering people and has passed laws against it.

The paladin may think that their deity/cause gives them all the authorization they need, but if I were DMing this paladin, he'd be tried and executed for murder by the government of the country he's in.


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aboniks wrote:
Static Hamster wrote:

...the evil wizard, who was the leader of the group, told us we were trespassing and we should leave.

We demanded to see their documentation, which was handed over and was confirmed to be valid...

Holy crap. You carded an evil wizard.

And he complied!


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Jaelithe wrote:
aboniks wrote:
Static Hamster wrote:

...the evil wizard, who was the leader of the group, told us we were trespassing and we should leave.

We demanded to see their documentation, which was handed over and was confirmed to be valid...

Holy crap. You carded an evil wizard.
And he complied!

/codersnort

Now I know I'm on the right messageboard.


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Jaelithe wrote:
aboniks wrote:
Static Hamster wrote:

...the evil wizard, who was the leader of the group, told us we were trespassing and we should leave.

We demanded to see their documentation, which was handed over and was confirmed to be valid...

Holy crap. You carded an evil wizard.
And he complied!

Well we do have a reputation for being...you know...awesome....so we weren't worth the trouble and not everyone with him was evil and one of his companions was a formal fling of my character.

You know; organic backstory game stuff.


okay, here's the thing... why is it a problem the paladin instantly finds out out about evil people? Just because the person is evil does not mean a paladin is required to kill them. Has the player already murdered somebody off of sheer virtue of them pinging as evil, or are you just worried that it will happen in the future.

Honestly, making a paladin not lawful stupid or lawful prick isn't hard, and I really don't like how people stir up controversies and assume the worst from this class.


Out of game:

Ask the player to write down his paladins code of conduct

Now ask him a few questions from this thread to be sure he understands his detect ability, and the social consequences of his action...

Ask the other players how they feel about adventuring with a lawfull stupid terrorist...

In game:

Use plenty neutral baddies
Try opposing the paladin with a clearly overpowered enemy...
Let the bad guys know the rules... An intelligent LE baddie will be able to use the laws of the area against the paladin.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

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If killing something with an evil aura is a repeatable offense, have an evil creature use misdirection to make a good aligned character show as evil. As soon as the paladin kills them, you tell them they lose all paladin powers and need to atone.

Probably one of the more evil and jerk troll moves you can make as a GM, but it certainly stops paladins from killing everything on sight.


CalebTGordan wrote:


A paladin's detect evil also has some limitations. Unlike the spell they can only focus on one creature or item within 60 ft. Keeping outside of that range, or offering a decoy, can be cheap ways of avoiding being detected. If there are multiple targets, make sure you enforce the one move action per target.

So where the description of Detect Evil states, "At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell," we should disregard? There are two ways a paladin can use detect evil: 1)as per the spell, which is a standard action, and 2) studying a specific target in sight, which costs only a move action. They could have written the description more clearly, granted, but that's the most straight forward reading. There are a few threads in the Rules Forum archives.


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Jaelithe wrote:


Holy crap. You carded an evil wizard.
And he complied!

Lawful evil?


As some other said, Detect Evil is by no means foolproof.

Bear in mind that not only there are countermeasures against it; several non-evil beings will ping evil, giving false positives.

Your friendly LN Asmodean cleric will detect as evil from Level 1.
As will a heretical (CN) priest of Nocticula (and this sect is canonical to my best of knowledge).

Heck, even our group's Paladin currently pings evil, along with lawful, good and chaotic after having accepted a Succubus's gift (she is aware of the demon being able to ride her thoughts, and honestly intends to try and redeem her by showing her by example how things ought to be done - good luck!)


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If you've the freedom in your campaign, write up a small cursed town.

Everyone in the town, regardless of alignment, projects a false evil aura (or not false, depending on the person). They're ashamed of what their ancestors have done, so they don't immediately tell everyone about this. If the PCs improve the attitude of townsfolk to helpful, they'll send them on a quest to break the curse.

Your Paladin just might learn a lesson about leaping and looking.


Most people are going to be neutral not good or evil. Committing an evil act does not necessarily make you evil, just like committing a good act does not make you good. To gain an alignment you have to consistently act in manner consistent with the alignment in question. Most people act in a mixed manner doing some good and some evil. Also you actually have to perform acts of good or evil, not just think thoughts. Sure the bully at the bar likes to pick on people, but he also probably helps his friends out when they need it.

Also most people do not have an aura. The website says 4th level or lower do not normally detect, my printed book says 5th level. This is also assuming you are not undead, and outsider, or a cleric, or paladin. The vast majority of people are under 6th level.

Using the rule of 80/20 what this comes down to is that 80% of the people are probably neutral. Of the 20% that are aligned on the good/evil axis 50% of them are evil. Of this 10% of the population 80% does not have an aura. What that comes down to is that approximately 8% of the people in the world will detect as evil. Of the 8% of people who detect as evil 80% of those will probably be in some position of authority or power. So what it comes down to is that most people that detect evil are going to be in positions that make killing them difficult for the paladin. Attacking the lawful evil sheriff is going to cause the paladin a lot of problem.


so this Paladin would just slice and dice anyone who is a racist bully who hasn't laid a finger on anyone because they *ping* as (Lawful)Evil...

hmmm...

What is this particular Paladin's Code?


First, as stated before this is a player problem.

Second, most people in a town should be below 5th level and, therefore, not detect as evil no matter what their alignment.


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Here is another consideration:

Most characters in your world won't be able to tell their respective alignments, so Leon won't ping as an evil assassin to his good and neutral neighbors. This isn't the salient point, though. When your paladin player goes after Leon, who has been a great friend to his neighbors and helped them out when they needed someone, they're going to think, "Holy crap! This [paladin] is an evil dude!" It won't be Leon that lands in hot water; he was minding his own business. The paladin will be the one confronted by an angry mob, or run out of every town he comes back to on a rail by good and neutral NPCs that he can't do anything about. If he's already ended Leon, then the NPCs will hate him, and he'll either have to go on trial for Leon's brutal murder (because that's what this paladin is doing; he's going around murdering people), or he'll be attacked on sight.

Congratulations! This is why you don't play Lawful Stupid.


Democratus wrote:
First, as stated before this is a player problem.

That is a truth-fact.

However, teaching someone to be a better player is often a way better approach than kicking them to the curb. If they cannot learn, then they cannot learn.

Democratus wrote:
Second, most people in a town should be below 5th level and, therefore, not detect as evil no matter what their alignment.

Because something that creates a curse powerful enough to affect an entire town couldn't create an effect powerful enough to pint a paladin's radar? I don't see what your objection here is. You could edit the curse's wording if you felt it necessary to "projects an evil aura as an evil cleric of their level." Then they're level 1 clerics for the purpose of Detect Evil.

Though unless you share your notes with your PCs, there's not really a reason to have wording that specific.


Skaldi the Tallest wrote:
Democratus wrote:
First, as stated before this is a player problem.

That is a truth-fact.

However, teaching someone to be a better player is often a way better approach than kicking them to the curb. If they cannot learn, then they cannot learn.

Democratus wrote:
Second, most people in a town should be below 5th level and, therefore, not detect as evil no matter what their alignment.

Because something that creates a curse powerful enough to affect an entire town couldn't create an effect powerful enough to pint a paladin's radar? I don't see what your objection here is. You could edit the curse's wording if you felt it necessary to "projects an evil aura as an evil cleric of their level." Then they're level 1 clerics for the purpose of Detect Evil.

Though unless you share your notes with your PCs, there's not really a reason to have wording that specific.

A Curse projecting an evil aura on just the people and not emanating from the town itself which makes significantly more sense?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Umbriere Moonwhisper wrote:

what about the good aligned succubus cleric of Milani whom doesn't want anything to do with the evil acts of her demonic kin and honestly seeks redemption for the sins of her birth?

it's a good aligned succubus even with the evil subtype, but due to the darn subtype, will detect as evil, regardless of what good she has done.

That is actually questionable, according to information from Wrath of the Righteous.

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