Diseased Rat

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Which I was very grateful for and am starting to learn the merits of combat casting over straight retreat.

I thought I would post Evlynne's journal for her fall (Session 19) and a picture of Evlynne. The start of it is mine; the last paragraph is PH's.

Evlynne's Post Session #19 Journal




“You’ve fallen Angel, took a little tumble but you’re alright…might as well stop your napping and get up; pain is a teacher, and you won’t learn anything lying down in the mud.”

I keep my eyes closed. I can feel the cold mud at my back as the comforting fog of unconsciousness slowly draws out of my body, replacing it with pain. I want to cry out but I stifle it, it doesn’t seem like something a warrior would do. I take in slow, deliberate breaths. My memories and thoughts form slowly. Someone is sharpening a sword behind me. Someone I know. Someone I trust.

“Get up”, the familiar voice repeats.

I open my eyes and push myself to my feet. I am greeted with the familiar sight of the Training Pit back at the Temple of Iomadae. I am in my armor and my brand new greatsword lies at the ground at my feet. It is early dawn, the sun just cresting over the horizon and I can see my breath as I fight to calm my racing heart. The cold doesn’t bother me, it never has; a gift of both my draconic and angelic heritage. I look down at myself and find that I am filthy. Unconsciously I start using my magic to clean myself…it doesn’t work.

I try again. Nothing.

I stare dumbly at the dirt.

“You’ll find that those stains will be a lot harder to remove than you think”, says the voice behind me.

Slowly I turn to face voice talking to me; he is a large man sitting on a stone in battered but well-kept armor. I recognize him immediately, Martin Greystone, master of arms of the Temple of Iomadea. He is human, but it was rumoured that he was also half-giant. His helmet lay at his side and he holds his massive broadsword in front of him, sharpening it while looking at me with calculating grey eyes. His long hair is pulled back in a pony-tail and his well-kept beard is similarly tied back to make it easier to put on his helmet.

He had been the one whose job it was to teach new recruits how to fight and care for their weapons. Even though Paladins of Iomadea favour longswords he liked a broadsword, taking advantage of his strength. He was a stern but fair teacher; he had been one of my few friends at the temple, and his face had the wrinkles of a man who laughs a lot. He was not laughing now.

I also remembered one more important fact.

He was dead.

“That dirt isn’t on your body, it’s on your soul; do you know where you are?”

I struggle to think, the first answer would obviously be the temple…but since it’s so obvious and I’m talking to my dead mentor I re-evaluate and quickly answer.

“A dream. This place looks like the Temple, and this particular time seems to be the first time I trained with you to learn to use my new sword, you knocked me down when we were sparring and I briefly fell unconscious.”

Long ago I had started to train as a paladin of Iomadea, but it wasn’t as easy as I thought it would be. It took me ten years to get to even a modest level of power. My ‘comrades’ were surpassing me in ability and it had been frustrating. Then after one fateful encounter everything changed. We had been on a routine mission to guard a caravan and had been ambushed. A half-orc had charged into us, he used his massive greatsword to sunder our weapons and shields and then let his band come in in his wake and slaughter the now defenseless warriors. He had just taken out my sword and shield and had knocked me to the ground when it happened.

My sorceress abilities manifested themselves. When his minions came in to kill me I raised my arm and a shield of magical energy came into existence deflecting their blows. My hands lashed out and ran across their chests, leaving a crimson path. Their surprise had been enough for us to recover and grab victory. No one had seen how I had overcome my enemy and everyone had a negative stigma against magic so I learned to use my powers in secret, and I found out that magic was something I excelled at. I had finally found something that I could learn at a regular pace; I was finally starting to be less of a liability. People eventually found out what I was anyway, and if they had avoided me before they really avoided me now. Martin Greystone had been the only one who still treated me as a friend, and we would train in the early hours before everyone woke up, and I would learn to use the greatsword. He was a good friend and I was saddened to receive a letter a few years ago informing me that he had been killed in the line of duty.

“Aye. A dream.” he replied standing and sheathing his sword, “We need to talk. The Lady is not pleased with you. First a question. It is one we have asked many times before but we need to hear your answer again before we can continue. Why did you desire to be one of Iomadea’s Paladin?”

I lowered my head and thought before answering. It was a question I had been asked many times. Although divine blood runs through my veins it is not hers or one of her emissaries, she already gave me that answer a long time ago. The practical reasons? It was a temple far away from my family and their constant feuding. It was a place I could be safe from them for a time, so my answer had always been that I was seeking her protection. That however had been when I was a child, and although the answer was true it was starting to dawn on me that it wasn’t the full answer to that question. Iomadea had been human and a noble soldier. She had risen to divinity. In a way with my bloodlines I had felt I was like her, and I wanted to emulate her. To be a strong warrior who could protect herself and others.

I looked around again and I realized why I was here, being brought back to this particular time in my life. It had been a turning point for me. It had been the time I had decided to turn my back on being a paladin and start training in being a dragon disciple. At first in small ways, the fact that I could create a magical shield meant that I could use a sword in both hands. Later, and as I kept practicing using my magic it yielded fantastic results, I finally became a great warrior, I finally became strong, I finally got what I always wanted…

“Power”, I answered in a flat voice, and I knew it to be the true answer and regretted it immediately.

The man before me nodded.

“You’ve wondered why you never really excelled at being a paladin, Angel. I think you’re finally starting to realize why. You’re a good person, trying to use your strength to shield those not as blessed as yourself. However, that strength was something that you desired more than watching others. We slowed your progress until, given enough time, and opportunity you could learn that for yourself. Unfortunately, you found another path to what you desired and turned from us."

I turn my eyes away from him, shamed.

“However, you are still one of us, even though you fight like a demon…”

“Dragon”, I interrupt quietly, my pride overriding my shame momentarily.

“…dragon and although you lack much of the training you are still a Paladin. You may never return to us, but that does not mean you can turn your back on everything we are. The Lady has protected you thus far and has accepted you as her representative, if you wish you remain under her hand then behaviour such as what we saw today has to stop.”

“The blood of noble dragons and angels runs strong in you; but there is a taint on your soul that can never be lifted. A darkness and temptation that whispers within you. We see it when you fight. You are not temperate, or moderate but feral…”

“My claws and teeth are a part of me”, I interrupt, “and a more effective weapon then any sword. “

“Aye, that they are. We do not disagree with your choice of weapon Dragon (though others might); but in how and when you use it. You must watch yourself more carefully than most or your own bloodlust may consume you.”

“Those giants you mercilessly attacked were just out doing a menial chore and initially meant you no harm. You didn’t even check if they were evil. We want you to know that they were not evil, they were not shining examples of good, but still, did not deserve to be slaughtered outright.”

“We are only a small band again an army of hundreds”, I answer hotly, “what would you have had me do instead?”

“You should have stepped out and offered them the opportunity to leave the army. True most like…”

"Stepped out?! If I had stepped out I would have presented myself as a target and risked them escaping and then through my actions brought an entire army on the heads of my companions. They weren’t just lumberjacks, they were soldiers…they did their jobs.”

“Nobody said being a paladin was easy Angel. Aye, they were soldiers and if you had come out they would have attacked and you would be free to act. If they had been evil, you would have perhaps been justified in how you acted. They were not evil. That is why we give you the tools; so that you can judge; but a tool is useless if it is not used. Evil beings are the only ones who deserve no quarter from us; everyone else gets a chance”

My resolve falters. He’s right of course. Even if they are soldiers and even if it would not have changed anything I should have checked if they were evil before attacking. I had had the time. Maybe my demonic half was getting stronger.

“We realize that you are surrounded by an army and without one of your own. Although a frontal assault would be preferable we know it would not be wise. Still you are our representative and as such you must be an example to not only those around you, but especially to your enemies. In the tower you killed a defenseless man in his sleep. Can I ask why?”

“What else would you have expected of me? Had he woken up; me and my allies would have been facing two angry giants in an enclosed space, either could have escaped and alerted the army. We had to maintain control of the situation otherwise we would not have gotten the information we needed.”

“Was he evil?”

I avert my eyes, and I feel face flushing a second time. When I answer it’s in a whisper, “I didn’t check.”

“I can tell you that he was, however a paladin does not murder an enemy in his sleep. A paladin watches her friends’ backs. It should not have been your hand that did the deed. You must hold yourself to a higher standard.”

To that statement I raise my eyes again, “And what else would you have me do?”, I reply anger heating my words, “I will not condone an action that I would not do myself. Any other option would have endangered lives.”

“Aye, angel. I know better than most that being honourable isn’t always the soundest tactical decision but that is the burden that we must carry. We are just saying that you have to watch yourself more carefully than most. Only fight in defense or against those who are evil and let it not be your hands that commit dishonourable acts. Do your best to find other more honourable ways to solve your problems. It’s all we ask and we ask in concern for your welfare.”

I hang my head in thought, and then finally nod my head.

“Good. Good. We will let this lay heavily upon you for the next few days. Think upon what you have done and what you can do better. Have faith in the Inheritor , channel her strength through your body and shine in her legion. Now pick up your sword, it needs a good cleaning.”
I turn to get my sword and face the sun, it fills my eyes with light and my body with warmth.

The dream then shifts. Now I am flying above the giant fortress. Down below I see scores of stone giants gathered around the great central pit. Their attention is focused on their leader. He too is a stone giant, but for a stone giant he is a runt, barely more than nine feet tall. Beside him is a pair of “monsters.” They look like attractive human females from the waist up, but their lower bodies are not human at all. They each have the lower body of lion. Their faces, which would otherwise be considered beautiful, are marred by expressions of hatred and cruelty, and they chant profane versus to some dark god. Before them standing at the edge of the pit is another stone giant. His arms and legs are bound, and he has clearly been the subject of much torture in abuse. The “diminutive” leader of the gathered giants shouts out to the crowd in the giant tongue. His voice booms as if enhanced by magic. I can’t tell what he is saying, but he is motioning towards the prisoner. It is then I notice a female giant in the crowd. She seems older and wiser than most of the other giants, perhaps an elder. I see that she is visibly horrified by the proceedings. Tears stream down her cheeks. The giant runt looks at her and laughs. Then he chants arcane words. A dark ray streaks out from his fingertip and hits the prisoner in the chest. Instantly the giant is disintegrated into a pile of ash. Then the runt casts another spell, and a gust of wind blows the ashes into the pit. The female elder wails in despair.

Iomodae has always encouraged her followers to cut down evil at its root. This giant wizard, and his monstrous allies are clearly such a vile root. Their will be no dishonour in killing them.

Since there is no RAW order of operations I had my DM rule what order things that happen at the start of a turn happen. His favoured method comes from 4.0 which had many more status affects and did outline order of operations. All things that don't involve a check happen first.

* Take all static damage first; ability damage before HP; HP will always be last in this list.
* Take all static healing next; things like fast healing happen here.
* Rolling signifies the beginning of your turn...if you were dying and not stabilized you would roll here and if you failed take a -1 to HP.

So in my previous turn if I was dying with Bleed damage and taking Con damage....

I would take the Con damage, then the Bleed Damage, then my Fast Healing would kick in and Stabilize me and I wouldn't have to roll.

I agree with him and it seems like a good way to do it....

My question is when do all these occur? Also if a spell or ability states that it's at the beginning of a turn in what order to you do them in?

I have a character that just gained Fast Healing 5; with another ability I can add half my Constitution bonus to this. If I was taking Con damage at the start of my turn...do I get the Fast Healing with my normal Con first or take the Con damage THEN the Fast Healing with the reduced bonus?

I'm below 0 and 1 away from dying and not Stabilized. Do I roll for Stabilizing and if I miss it take the the -1 first and die....or do I get Fast Healing first and stabilize? If I was suffering from Bleed damage...do I take the Bleed damage first and die...or the Fast Healing first and negate the damage before it happens?

I am guessing that I am missing a ton of different types of damage that can happen....I know these are rare edge cases, but I am at the edge so I was just wondering if this is addressed anywhere as I cannot find it and the topics i found didn't give any good answers...

The idea was to do hit and run strikes on the army.

We're just a small band of fighters and had followed a group of ogres here, finding a large army. Talking together we determined that we could not attack such a large force head on, it would be suicide. Rather it would be more prudent to attack small parties on the outside, scatter their forces from the center then find an opening and hit their leaders. One of their allies also included a Red Dragon.

We assumed that the giants working in the woods were not just 'innocent lumberjacks' but soldiers conscripted to do the menial jobs (being so close to the army itself). We killed all of them so that they could not report back and then used the attack to frame the Red Dragon that was allied with them to attempt to sew distrust by marking the bodies. We then covered our tracks as best we could and made our escape.

We watched the armies movements waiting for the cover of night and it was decided that we needed information. We found an opportunity when we passed the tower, hearing snoring inside. If anyone had woken up or escaped the entire army nearby would have been alerted to our presence and slaughtered us and we would have gotten nothing. It was close quarters, an awake giant would have been dangerous and cost lives. Again it's assumed these are soldiers. Their deaths were clean and quick. We interrogated the last Giant.

When we were done it was then that the Dwarf and the Paladin questioned killing their captive. The man questioning him had offered him his life if he answered all his questions. The giant had to the best of his ability and honoured his end of the bargain. It would not be honourable to kill him after that. We were unsure what to do. Our safety lied in secrecy. The Cleric said he had an idea. He used Bestow Curse to give him a -2 Intelligence and put him in a comma then we left.

I like to keep an electronic back up of all my characters on my computer and tablet.

To do this I use Mod Necros character sheet which I can fill in with the relevant characters information and re-save.

One these characters just gained a Mythic Level.

Are their any Fill-able base character sheet pdfs for Mythic Characters?

I believe that my DM would rule since the implication is that you become a full blooded Orc you would lose your Human racial traits.

The only other alternative really is:

Even though you mechanically count as Orc the spell just fizzles and doesn't do anything because you actually aren't an half-orc.

It's equal.

A GM should respect his players fun and there will be compromises .

Of course it goes the other way too. Players should respect a GM's fun as well. If the GM is not having fun the game will suffer more then if the players are not having fun.

Unfortunately GM'ing is difficult and not as easy as being a player. If no one is willing to step up I would recommend instead taking a break by trying out something different like a board or card game for a couple weeks.

LazarX wrote:
Lincoln Hills wrote:

Oddly enough, never seen that happen. Even among folks who like a role-playing challenge. ;)

"You see, my LE assassin follows the paladin code..."

Including the part about doing no evil? :)

yes. Why not?

I submit Lex Luthor. Public Servant and to the Public Eye a very good man.

My Paladin, Evlynne Fairchild

Sure she isn't a complete Paladin, more of a Dragon Disciple but I try to play her Lawful Good and I think whatever I play next I will forever miss Paladin saves.

The trouble with Paladin's is that everyone has a different opinion on what alignment means. Paladin is unique because they have to be only ONE alignment and it's Lawful Good. Many think that there is only ONE way to play Lawful Good and a Paladin falls making a decision that deviates from their alignment ONCE.

That's a fallacy to me; but it is also something we will never agree on.

Personally I would love to see a Barbarian or Monk suffer the consequences of alignment shift. How do you play a Drunken Master? In 3.5 there was even a class for it. Wouldn't you skirt just a little too close to the Chaotic edge playing someone who was constantly drunk? We ignore that of course and there are no topics for it.

Practically everyone I have ever known plays a barbarian to stereotype; hard to imagine how you would be in danger of being too disciplined or what would cause you to lean that way. Of course we never ask what happens if a Barbarian follows the laws in cities does that make him in danger of losing his Chaotic nature. It's because following the laws in a city has nothing to do with alignment. Except when people look at the Paladin...then suddenly following laws has everything to do with HIS alignment but we never think twice about the Barbarian not committing petty crimes in the city just to maintain his Chaotic nature.

Unfortunately there is no way to resolve this and how it is handled will change at every table.

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Ssalarn wrote:

Because there's already one Lawful Evil Iconic and everyone knows you can't have a Chaotic Evil PC


I would argue this.

You can't have a Chaotic Evil Short sighted PC definitely; and if you do; it will be a short lived one.

Joker occasionally works with the Penguin and Two-Face and doesn't really double cross them until the jobs done. He also doesn't do anything to jeopardize whatever deal they have (for the most part) until the jobs done. This is because however Chaotic and Evil he is he's not stupid. Stabbing your associates in the back and risking your life for nothing better than to be chaotically evil is dumb.

You can have a Chaotic Evil character in your party; just not a Chaotic Stupid one.

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Now, if you use an improvised weapon, does it count?

I'd say yes. As was stated. Oaths are not trivial things and if they have taken an oath the character and the player should be striving to keep it; not trying to break it or find a way around it.

Undefeatable - Dragon Disciple

This resource is invaluable and one of the things my DM is allowing me to use. All these feats are allowable as your bonus feats from Dragon Disciple and Draconic Sorcerer Bloodline.

If you're going with Natural Weapons, True Dragon Claws can make your claws permanent. Personally I like Disciple of Draconic Fear but there are several good feats in there; check it out.

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Alaka-ooze wrote:
He's literally told me he's targeting people he perceives are powergaming.

This right here is why you should find a new GM. GM's control the entire world; if he wants to kill you he can. Punishing you in game because your philosophies are different is wrong. In fact punishing at all is wrong. He's not respecting your sense of fun or even thinking of it. He seems to just want to show that he's right and force you to play how he wants you to.

If you can't think of someone else's fun then you shouldn't be a GM. Making the game fun for your players IS your number one priority....not teaching your players lessons.

This guy is vindictive. Find a new GM.

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We are a level 9 adventuring party and recently liberated an ancient dam. Trolls and Ogres and Giant had been destroying it and causing the dam to malfunction which in turn was causing nearby settlements to flood.

While the smart people were figuring out the mechanism to get the dam running again I opened the final door to the complex and found inside two summoning circles.

One had a pile of ash; the other a Pit Fiend.

We figured out that the dam was worked by draining the life out of the Pit Fiend. Each time we pulled one of the levers to open one of the flood gates the devil experienced excruciating pain. He begged for release.

I have 2 levels in Paladin and identify as a Paladin.

My Detect Evil stunned me for a single round.

Sizing up the creature the DM told us that even though he was severely wounded he still had hundreds of HP left giving us the impression that even in this state the creature would be a formidable foe at our level and most likely kill us.

The summoning circle was the only thing keeping the creature at bay; but it could easily be disrupted; freeing this evil creature on our plane.

Looking at the situation I could see few options...

We could try and kill him; but he would most likely kill us and we would risk freeing him.

We could leave him then come back when we had the levels to deal with him but someone could find him and free him.

We could leave the machines running in some permanent way; giving him the slow, painful, torturous death he most like deserved.

or ... our Cleric gave me the option that he could banish him to his home plane.

They all looked to me. I chose the last option. Why? Because my character was unwilling to torture to death even something as evil as this thing before me. I asked the creature for this I wanted him to never return to the material plane, telling him flat out that I never believed that he would honor that. If I saw him again though; I would kill him.

THAT is how you set up a moral dilemma.

Anyway; I don't think this 'mullet' is here anymore and he seems to ignore any posts that don't align with his way of thinking.

I will mention as well that at 1st, 5th and 9th level you lose a caster level.

If you're a Sorcerer 5/Dragon Disciple 5 your bloodline powers and bonus spells aren't affected you still count as a 10th level sorcerer for that BUT for spells you are 8th level; so you've JUST gained 4th level spell slots at 10th level.

Blood of the Dragon wrote:
A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline.

You don't gain bonus feats from your Sorcerer class anymore so you only gain the class abilities from Dragon Disciple so one bonus feat at 2nd and one bonus feat at 5th. You ONLY add your dragon disciple levels to your sorcerers to determine your bonus spells and your Draconic Bloodline powers.

I run a Dragon Disciple too.

She's Paladin 2/Sorcerer 3/Dragon Disciple 4 right now...

That means she's a 7th level sorcerer for her Draconic Bloodline she just got a damage upgrade for her claws from 1d4 to 1d6 and they're magic. She also gained Mage Armor at 5th level, Resist Energy at 7th and just got Fly at 9th.

It's unfortunate that my first thought on seeing this thread and upon seeing the most recent Amazing Spiderman movie (don't btw)...

Shocker is sound based; Electo is electricity based....

I was honestly expecting a Sonic based character; much harder to create and given the lack of Sonic resistance far more rewarding if you can pull it off at all.


I made a fighter....

Sylph, Fighter 6/Duelist 10/Shadow Dancer 4

She was to come in at level 13 and had some basic magic items.

She had an AC of 37 and +26 damage per strike (4 when hasted) with a critical range of 15-20.

A friend of mine had created a low Con, low Str fighter and we all laughed at him at the time so I wanted to see if I could build one.

She has a low Will save; which was a problem...but she looked like fun. Others could do better.

I share the love my friend but lack the knowledge to help you.

I've heard its a sub-optimal weapon; but I love that it can be used ranged as well as in melee (it doubles as a small club).

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When I first read your situation I just looked at it and said to myself...this is a trap.

You set your players up to do something horrible and then were surprised when they did it.

If you don't want your players to set off traps don't put them in their path.

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My paladin

Is LG all that there is to this character?

I would think whatever OTHER aspects of this character you have would come into play in the decision making.

I felt we were begging for big trouble too; but the party convinced me that taking on the entirety of the mountain in an area where we had an escape route was the best plan. I went along with it.

Minor note: Evlynne rarely used her demonic claws in battle. Her Bite/Claw combo is from her Silver Dragon heritage (her good side). Now that she has true dragon claws she in fact did not use her demonic claws at all this battle.

Don't you get bonus spells from your Bloodline?

For example: Draconic gives you Mage Armor, Resist Energy, Fly, Fear, Spell Resistance....

I thought I got those bonus spells PLUS the spell from the Spells Known Table.

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Stop playing an alignment. Start playing a character.

The alignment issue happens because people are doing this backwards. Alignments aren't absolutes, they are a spectrum. You should never have a gamer pick an alignment and then have the player try to adjust they're character to play the perfect example of that alignment. That's not a character.

What I feel should happen is that you should create a character and select the alignment that best fits their general outlook on life. If you're having trouble selecting an alignment discuss with your DM not what has happened to your character, but who your character is. Then discuss and agree on which alignment fits your character.

Now there are classes that force you to pick and play as a certain alignment but it isn't as restrictive as people tend to think. There isn't just one way to play under a certain alignment. Decide what being that alignment means to your character.

It should be very telling that Batman (under different writers) falls under every alignment in the spectrum.

If you were holding the charge and discharging it in addition to a melee attack do you still get the +3 bonus? You'd be rolling for the attack roll and not the spell.

If you were holding the charge and you were using a Maximized Rod....could this be done? Or in the second you cast the spell would it be discharged into the Rod because you are touching it.

I have an idea for a new build and believe that this item exists but can't remember the name of it.

Two chests who share the same content space regardless of the distance between them. You can keep one of the chests at home; then take the other on the road. If you put an item in either of the chests, it can be accessed in both.

I'm planning on building a Wizard Item creation specialist as my back up character and want to invest in a 'magic shop'. Taking commissions and creating items for adventurer's in my down time. Facsimile's kept at the shop and the real items kept on my person or in an extra dimensional space such as with the Secret Chest spell. Requests (by exchanging notes) and delivery handled through the chest.

Did this item only exist in 3.5? Or is it in Pathfinder? Or did I dream it up? Is there a better way?

Clive did not shake off the Hold Person on his own. Gimpy used his last 4th level spell to cast Freedom of Movement on him before engaging the Servants of Kyuss. That's why Gimpy was able to be grabbed and held by the Giant Worm later on and was also not able to cast Deathward before entering battle.

P.H. Dungeon wrote:
It grabs him up in its jaws; his ribs crack from the force of the worm’s bite and he feels his blood staining the ridiculous looking, ruffled “quick runner shirt” he wears under his armor.

NO!!! Not my Quickrunner's Shirt!!! At least my Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier survived unmarrred. I think the worms even buffed it up. It's what all the fashionable adventurers are wearing this year.

If you dispel or the duration runs out on the spell fly, you float down 60 ft then drop like a stone.

I see no reason why being stunned wouldn't work the same.

Jacob Saltband wrote:
What happens to a creature with natural non- magical flight who is stunned?

My DM has it fall to the ground and take fall damage.

Jacob Saltband wrote:
What happens to a creature with magical flight that is stunned?

Even magical flight has an Armor Check penalty and this strongly suggests to me that you need to be able to move to fly. If you can't fly properly you float to the ground and take no damage.

Actually I didn't say he use the claws. He uses two sawtooth blades and a shield. One does 1.5 because it uses two hands. The other does full strength. The claws are a necessary evil to get +6 Str.

It does seem feat heavy so I may have to give up a lot of stuff and prioritise. But I think it works.

lemeres wrote:
Static Hamster wrote:

I dunno about powerful; but I did want to do ridiculous.

A build my DM won't let me play is:

Merfolk Alchemist 4/Paladin 16

Take Strong Tail alternate racial trait to bump up overland movement to 15; find something to get you at least 20 movement...

Get the mutation that will give you 4 arms, do 2 weapon fighting, and double slice....

Take Paladin with an Oath of Vengeance to convert Lay on Hands to Smites by the 4th level of Paladin...

Take Eldritch Heritage (Abysal, Claws) then Greater Eldritch Heritage (Abysal, Strength of the Abyss) to get an eventual +6 to Str.

Get a Ring of Battle Frenzy to give your Paladin 10 rounds of Barbarian Rage a day.

You get 1.5xStr on your first hit, normal str on your second hit AND on your last arm you carry a shield.

I call him Arthur Curry.

...unfortunately, that doesn't work. I am not going to bother digging up the FAQ again (darn it, my desire for good references; look here), but the general point is that 'no extra attacks' means 'no extra attacks'. So even if you have vestigial arms, you can still only use two at a time for attacking, even with claws.

Sadly, you will have to stick with those synthesists that no one ever gets to play since theya re always banned.

I dunno about powerful; but I did want to do ridiculous.

A build my DM won't let me play is:

Merfolk Alchemist 4/Paladin 16

Take Strong Tail alternate racial trait to bump up overland movement to 15; find something to get you at least 20 movement...

Get the mutation that will give you 4 arms, do 2 weapon fighting, and double slice....

Take Paladin with an Oath of Vengeance to convert Lay on Hands to Smites by the 4th level of Paladin...

Take Eldritch Heritage (Abysal, Claws) then Greater Eldritch Heritage (Abysal, Strength of the Abyss) to get an eventual +6 to Str.

Get a Ring of Battle Frenzy to give your Paladin 10 rounds of Barbarian Rage a day.

You get 1.5xStr on your first hit, normal str on your second hit AND on your last arm you carry a shield.

I call him Arthur Curry.

Zhayne wrote:
Squirrel_Dude wrote:
At some point, did people take "evil" to mean petty criminal?
The problem ... well, one of the many problems ... with Detect Evil is that it's binary. Yes or no. No gradients. Crazy psycho baby eater registers the same as makes babies cry for fun.

Perhaps it's a houserule but my DM always relays the strength of the Evil Aura. It's not a yes/no but a little evil; very evil...and so on.

The trouble is this is a debate that will never end. It's a subjective subject and will change depending on the players and DM your dealing with.

So the only real solution is to talk to your group.

My martial can fly without items....getting flight in every character is always a goal for me. For the very reason it'd so useful.

Sylph Duelist with Wings of Air.

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Jaelithe wrote:
aboniks wrote:
Static Hamster wrote:

...the evil wizard, who was the leader of the group, told us we were trespassing and we should leave.

We demanded to see their documentation, which was handed over and was confirmed to be valid...

Holy crap. You carded an evil wizard.
And he complied!

Well we do have a reputation for being...you know...awesome....so we weren't worth the trouble and not everyone with him was evil and one of his companions was a formal fling of my character.

You know; organic backstory game stuff.

Like a light shining without a source...

You know there is light; but where it's coming from is a lot harder to pinpoint. It may take several rounds to find the source of the magical emanations of a invisible creature.

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We recently had a part of our game where we returned to a dungeon that we teleported out of to avoid a TPK.

What we found there was another party of adventurers, one of whom was an evil wizard that was much higher level then us.

The Paladin did not automatically attack; because that would be stupid, and even though he is stupid (Int 8) that would be stupid even for him.

Instead the evil wizard, who was the leader of the group, told us we were trespassing and we should leave.

We demanded to see their documentation, which was handed over and was confirmed to be valid.

By the laws of the city we were in the wrong, and left peacefully.

Long story short. Your paladin should not be killing everything just because their evil; that's wrong.

My2Copper wrote:
Static Hamster wrote:

Get 4 arms dual weild with 1.5 strength on each weapon...get a Ring of Battle Frenzy to add Rage.
If you wield two weapons one of those is an offhand weapon. Those only do 0.5 strength no matter how many hands you use to wield them.

I never got as far as testing the mechanics or finding options to take out things like this. Even if it's completely legal...my DM won't let me play it so I didn't bother.

Didn't help my case when I named him Arthur Curry.

Assimar Paladin 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple 7

Paladin of Vengeance so that you can convert Lay on Hands to Smite
Cross Blooded Sorcerer with Elemental and Draconic Bloodline, your will is high enough to take the hit.
Take Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal, Claws) and Improved Eldritch Heritage (Strength of the Abyss)

After getting to around Dragon Disciple 8 I would finish off with Paladin for better Smity goodness.

Find a way to get a backstory for a character that is half human, half celestial, half dragon, half elemental, half demon.

If I had a chance to rebuild my character; this is what I would play.

Or a variant...

Merfolk Alchemist 4/Paladin remainder

Get 4 arms dual weild with 1.5 strength on each weapon...get a Ring of Battle Frenzy to add Rage.

My DM won't let me play it and with good reason. It's ridiculous.

The mechanical benefit isn't only skills.

My DM has us roll checks based off solely stats all the time for example.

You don't JUST need skills to interact and roleplay with the world. Every challenge isn't ONLY a skill role.

Every character has a strength. You can create challenges that are tailored to individual characters having a greater chance to succeed.

You can involve every character without changing the way the class functions.

It doesn't leave mechanics. It still uses mechanics to determine success or failure. It just how you craft challenges and what you base success or failure on.

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Really this isn't a class issue....

It doesn't matter what class they play, or even mechanically how they are constructed.

They have strengths and they can be engaged on those strengths.

I've always believed that a characters backstory should be weaved in some way into the campaign itself to give each character specific hooks to immerse them more into your world.

This is a roleplay issue. Not a mechanical one.

We play that it follows the target.

I don't know of any builds...but my first thought was:

Alchemist 4/Paladin with Oath of Vengeance for the remainder

Dual wield two great swords with TWF getting 1.5x Str bonus for each; 40 minutes of +4 to Str -2 to Int from Mutagen (Paladin's don't need Int) and all the Smite you could ever want or need.

Get a Ring of Battlefrenzy for added fun as the Alchemist Bonus, Morale Bonus and any Enhancement Bonus' you get will all stack.

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Your first statement is a player ruining other people's fun.

Being effective in your role is not inherently evil. Optimizing does not stop you from being part of the group. It does not stop your ability to roleplay. You shouldn't feel the need to crush the player as long as he's not spoiling the game for your other players.

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Calybos1 wrote:
In response to the snowball-fight analogy. There are still too many people thinking that combat optimization is 'hard mode' and that roleplayers are 'carebears who can't handle a challenge,' so I stamp that out at every opportunity. Rendering munchkins useless is one of my greatest joys as a GM.

First of all; optimization and roleplaying are not mutually exclusive...you can have both.

Second; if you have a player who is weak at roleplay and strong at optimization and you punish them for being that way you're ignoring rule #1* and that is not a good way to be. You should not enjoy making a players strength useless.

*Rule #1 Make sure everyone has fun

Reading this has made me realize that I've taken the fluff for granted. I'll admit that I've never been the strongest at the RP aspects of the game but have always made myself useful as a rules guy. This doesn't mean I don't try to RP. One of my proudest character achievements in a game was playing a member of an assassin's guild whom the party did not trust but needed to adventure with because of her access to resources in the city and her usefulness. She may have never earned the other party members trust, but she did earn their respect. She was a charisma based character and a shape-changer so it forced me into many many RP situations which is not my comfort zone and this was the intent.

Even though I am not strong at RP I've still asked myself some of these very obvious questions for every character: Why would my character join the party? Why do the adventurers keep travelling with my character? What are my characters goals in the campaign? Would this be fun to play? I have always asked them without thinking about it because it was so self evident that they had to be there. Fluff is an unlimited resource so even for me it was be relatively easy (sometimes still a challenge) to add these to my characters.

Abilities are a different story.

Things like unlimited flight so your wizard doesn't have to use his spells just to fly up above a jungle canopy to figure out which direction the temple is? Or using your flight to ignore difficult terrain (take that swamp!) or a climb challenge. Or the ability to use a Cure Light Wounds wand so that the Cleric can save his healing for those who need it or stretch it out so we can fight for longer without resting? Or be a back up healer if the main healer has died. Those can be more of a challenge to add because you're limited by the rules.

I enjoy seeing how many of my 'basic' abilities I can get into a build and having them can make some of the challenges in the game easier to deal with, which is always rewarding.

Or just get Arcane Armor Training. Ignore 10% of failure as a swift action.

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Stop playing an alignment.

Start playing a character.

You're lucky. My DM has us climb and swim ALL THE TIME so most of us veteran players with him always have points in those skills.

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Doing stuff outside of combat isn't just about skill points...

Have you intertwined the PC's into your world and do individual PC's have unique access to resources due to contacts that only they have?

Like a bartender who is friends with your fighter because he's a regular being used to provide an adventure hook and he'll only give his information to the fighter because they are friends...I don't care what your other party members skills are...he doesn't know you.

If your monk is part of a monastery it is a monastery that specializes in ancient books. Let's say you were hunting a demon and you tell the monk character that there are books in the monastery that have information on said demons. Again, the monk has to vouch for the adventurers because he is the only one with an 'in'.

I wouldn't give the fighter more skill points. It's unnecessary. Is there a knowledge gap in your party? Allow him to re-assign his skill points. Perhaps put points in Dungeoneering or Engineering, class skills for a fighter. If they scout and that scout can get a look at opponents you'll be facing a Dungeoneering check can allow you a hook to provide specific information on tactics and weakness' of those opponents. The engineering skill on the other hand can enable the Fighter to provide a bonus aiding the Rogue disarm traps. Or are they trying to cross a river and need to build a raft to get belonging and steeds across without expending valuable magical resources? Engineering check....(I would have to look at that skill honestly but these usages seem legit).

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