shadowlodgemember's page

I am thinking of creating a home campaign. Somewhat of a novice DM. What is a good start on 'required reading' for being an effective DM? My first inclination is to base the story mostly off the players backgrounds and pick an appropriate setting in Golarion from there, then narrow it down to a kingdom/locale and handcraft a BBEG from that point.

The only other campaign I tried to run was tailored around my world, and the PCs ended up being a set of out of place outsiders.

1) Paladins can be Lawful Neutral.
2) Ranged weapons and guns threaten within 5ft (TBH this one never made sense to me...)
3) Barbs can only begin and end a single rage per round
4) Crafting DCs based on complexity of item rather than price. Time unrelated to item price
5) All undead have d12 hit die, including zombies
6) Critical hits must always be rolled rather than multiplied
7) Summoning evil creatures might result in them attacking you

Thanks for the feedback guys :) Gonna tone down this villain a bit.

I decided to let a player play a Necromancer with the undead lord feat (for a hefty level adjustment). We agreed he won't count as undead nor benefit from his desecrate aura. However, he gets the ability to use animate dead once a day. The player has a higher CL than normal and is capable of animating 10HD worth of zombies.

I'm a bit scared that whatever strong bad guys I throw at them will now be thrown back at me through animate dead. How does game balance work with necromancy?

Would call DM magic on this one. It's perfectly believable that some rooms of a dungeon are empty or used to hold prisoners. Especially in a mega-dungeon.

Sort of curious if RAW prevent this? Let's say you get the jump on an enemy and have time to cast both spells before entering combat. Would you be able to deliver two touch spells using Flurry of Blows, say maybe two empowered shocking grasps?

My answer would depend on point-buy options. People are leaving out the option of hiring mercenaries or other NPCs. My inclination for a low point buy would be a caster. As another poster once wrote, cross-blooded human sorcerer with spell specialization, varisian tattoo and traits meant to pump caster level. Take Orc and Draconic bloodline. If the DM allows swapping it out later, you have a character that can easily deal 5d4 + 10 damage from level 1. At level 6 that becomes a 10d6+20 Fireball. In either case, even with fire resistance or the like any CR 8 enemies below are likely going to be incinerated by that build.

With high point buy or lenient rolled stats I'd be inclined to agree Paladins will own the first 5 levels. If the DM allows hiring permanent mercenaries, I'd go Barbarian and hire a low level Cleric. Tell him to stay a certain amount of space behind me and carry the wand.

At that point just take Invulnerable Rager, throw everything into STR and smash everything with superior damage. If the merc can level, have the Cleric buff with Shield of Faith, Bless, Prot Evil and so forth. For added kicks, get potions of Enlarge Person or Bull's Strength. A 30+ STR Barbarian absolutely breaks the entire first book.

I know because that's exactly what I did to break it :-P

I am looking more for links that have clever trap or puzzle ideas. Introducing new players in this setting is fairly simple, since the upper levels of the dungeon are the playground of a psychopathic lich's cult of followers, and they have a rotten habit of kidnapping, torturing and sacrificing people. Means the PCs are just some 'new recruits' so to speak.

New captures are bound to get lost in all that chaotic evil bureaucracy and paper filing..

Bumping my own thread here. Can anyone suggest a good source of pre-constructed puzzle rooms, (evil and misleading) traps or other ways to make a traditional dungeon more difficult?

I realize Rappan Athuk is already challenging, but the group I am playing against is a group of veterans, and I've allowed them to create rather powerful characters out of the gate.

shadowlodgemember wrote:

The way I see it is this:

Why would a Barbarian care what the Law says? He sees his friend's body broken and crushed before him. The Prince is an egotistical douche. Rules of a fight or duel? Oh you are royalty or important with a made-up title? You have a lot of men? Who gives a crap. Barbarians live in the spark of swords clashing in a battle.

Killing is not always evil, especially in a mad rage. If killing always evil, Paizo needs to seriously rewrite this game because a lot of its own modules make NO sense at all.

Got to weigh in on this, though.

"Killing is not always evil."

Well, maybe. There's another thread nearby where this issue has been discussed, and I like one interpretation: killing is not good. If the balance of the moral outcome is good, then it can be considered a good thing (so if you kill the evil torturer of thousands, you're doing it for the greater good, as well as the individual good of those rescued from his clutches). Killing can also be neutral, such as in self-defence. It can also be evil, if you randomly just decide to kill someone because it falls in your power to do so.

But what you described? Nah, that's at worst CN. Possibly even CG, on the whole. Because your reasons for killing him are not particularly selfish (partly, but not entirely - you're trying to help your friends, too).

A CE character would have at least considered "take them, I don't care, but if you want me, you must fight me".

A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority

CN avoids authority, he decides to follow his whims. Hey you were torturing my friend? OK fine, I'll go rage and kill your Prince and your guards. No problem here...

I want to show him that other players also think it's ridiculous, MM. It's absolutely foolish to say Killing = evil = bad = CE

Barbarians never atone, and they certainly need not trust magic (ala Superstition rage power). Killing for revenge is NOT Chaotic Evil. Nor is killing in self-defense of a tortured comrade

Barbarians don't stop and ponder about morality. They certainly would 'murder' guards in the moment of combat. If you threaten someone with a weapon, that isn't really murder. That's called battle or warfare. Arresting a Paladin for trying to seduce the Duke's daughter is one thing. Torture though...

I mean hey let's just say you 'murder' A Lawful Evil character as a Barbarian. I mean come on. There's a difference between CN and CE. It's called motive.

Murder as a concept has zero concept on a battlefield. Certainly not in an underground prison. Certainly not from Lawful Evil characters imposing the illegitimate will of a corrupt monarch. I'm no Paladin or Cleric. I decide my character's alignment. CE kills for fun. CN raging and killing guards is not Evil. If it is, Paizo needs to rewrite this whole crap system.

The way I see it is this:

Why would a Barbarian care what the Law says? He sees his friend's body broken and crushed before him. The Prince is an egotistical douche. Rules of a fight or duel? Oh you are royalty or important with a made-up title? You have a lot of men? Who gives a crap. Barbarians live in the spark of swords clashing in a battle.

Killing is not always evil, especially in a mad rage. If killing always evil, Paizo needs to seriously rewrite this game because a lot of its own modules make NO sense at all.

So our Paladin fell and got arrested for some idiotically trivial offense, trying to seduce the princess. They decided to keep him in the lowest dungeon of the town. So we find a way to break in and spring him. We find that he has basically been stripped of the ability to move properly, having had all his bones broken and been subject to torture in this LE town.

This prompts my CN Barbarian to snap. In the ensuing chaos, my PC kills the prisoner NPC. The DM says "What do you say to the guards when they come down?" My response: I pull out my Enlarge Person potion and Bull's Strength potion. Full-move to drink both with Drunken Brute. Rage. Superstition activates and hold person fails. I kill the guard's mage. We slaughter the remaining guards. I charge their leader, and naturally critical. He's dead. I continue a cleave and kill his top mook. The following round we slaughter all the guard and burn their corpses after combat.

We make it out and arbitrarily (yay, plot hax) the town guard has found our mercs above ground. The sorcerer goes invisible and a brief dialogue ensues. They demand that we all return and stand trial (yay, guards meta knowledge of their dead comrades below ground...)

Ensuing is another fight, as I rage again and kill a few more guards. The sorcerer breaks stealth and casts an empowered, intensified Fireball on myself and the guards. I take some damage. Guards are mostly dead. The arrogant prince arrives and challenges me to a one-on-one duel to see if we are allowed to go free. We count to three. On two, I turn around and charge him after the mage casts silence on me. I kill the Prince.

His mooks get involved and we slaughter them as well. The DM looks *REALLY* pissed off. He says this is Chaotic Evil. My reaction is "Why?" It is not CE to kill guards that capture and torture my friends. Nor is it CE to cheat at a fight.

He says that even barbarians must recognize legitimate authority... Is this seriously how poorly written the SRD of PF is? Or is this just a bad DM? Why would a Barbarian care if the Law says his friends are guilty?

Let's look at what evil is under RAW:

"Evil implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others."

Per Paladin's code:

"... Paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority"

"act with honor"

It is neither acting with honor nor respecting authority to murder a LE ruler outright. In fact this is "hurting and killing others". A Paladin doing this commits an evil act willfully and is absolutely looking at a fall.

Otherwise Paladins would just rip into evil civilizations and slaughter all those not in accordance with their beliefs. I.e. Lawful Stupid. A Paladin is required to negotiate with local rulers, even if they are evil and seek to actively curb their influence. It's another question entirely if the LE villain is drunk with power, hurting innocents in the streets and slaughtering the innocent. In this case, the CoC requires the Paladin to take action to protect the innocent.

It's a tight rope that Paladins walk. Lawful Evil rulers are still legitimate authority, and must be handled delicately. It's another matter entirely if the Paladin is dealing with devils, outsiders, demons, undead, monstrous humans or so forth... LE and NE humans still have lives, and their life value is to be respected.

Under RAW, characters like Dexter, Yagami Light from Death Note and other vigilantes that murder are absolutely still Chaotic Evil....

As others have said, if you don't conform the paladin to the many varied differing and opposing views everyone has on him, he falls immediately.

My 2 copper on the matter.

Detect Evil only pings on 5 hd and above. Thus evil that pings on it is HEFTY stuff and honestly a Paladin should KoS. Not all Paladins are redeemers. Ragathiel for instance has a special ritual that specifically dictates his followers to hunt down and kill an evil person every day. As for Misdirection, the Paladin can simply have the Wizard check for magical auras of the Illusion school after the first time it occurs(Since he'll be savvy to it). Also Misdirection on some random old lady wouldn't work unless she also had 5 HD. Undetectable Alignment pings on Detect Magic still and would set me on guard on why this Quest Giver showed up with buffs on.

Most Paladins work as champions of their deity and honestly? Real Deities would have far more pull on my beliefs than laws made up by a potentially corrupt government.

Evil People are Evil folks. They are truly down to their core Evil and reprehensible people. Killing someone who is Evil for "no reason but he's evil(Which means he's done something horrible in his lifetime or has been eking it out over the years but apparently that doesn't matter because the Paladin doesn't know that)" is still an objectively Good action in a world with Objective Morality. Evil was killed thus there is less Evil in the world which by comparison is Good.

Ultimately this comes down to different game expectations. Likely, you want Evil bad guys in disguise to jump your party whereas the Paladin wants his Evil up front and center for him to fight. He's likely not interested in the bait and switch. "Oh No! Lord Malkor the Terrible was really a bad guy! We've been tricked!" Neither is wrongbadfun.

Misdirection can target an object. Objects don't tend to have HD. Therefore, misdirection can target a tree. It mentions not that you need to target an object with an aura. You could misdirect to an aligned item you carry, or even to another person altogether. The only limitation is the range of the spell.

The spell mentions no such thing as HD. Why would Detect Evil, a level 1 spell, be infallible to a level 2 spell? Sorry to say, that makes no sense.

Misdirection mentions no HD cap, it's just a way to subvert detect ____ spells including Detect Undead. You are also very incorrect when you mention detect magic, as Misdirection states it foils detect magic as well. It also has no save and no SR if used on an object.

Your view of evil is also rather at odds with the SRD. Evil comes in many flavors. Lawful Evil sometimes keeps the order against an even bigger (and often measurably worse) bad. Not all LE is actively hurting other people. Not ever tyrant can be overthrown, nor can every NE thug on the streets be executed wholesale.

Sorry to say that even crusader logic doesn't involve "round up all the evil people" and kill them. Just because someone is 5HD and evil doesn't give the Paladin the right to murder-stomp them. Courts require evidence, even in Golarion. Many deities require a Paladin or Cleric to try and actively redeem the situation and to be a beacon of morality.

Paladins are not inquisitors, and they have to play by the same rules they preach.

Misdirection spell. It's only level 2.

As another player suggested Undetectable alignment spell. Any measly 1st level Bard lackey can cast that on him at the start of every day. Sufficiently wealthy bad guys should invest in that. Plus, it's damn cheap. Can even make it permanency'd rather easily. Just have him use the misdirection on some neutral item he carries. Maybe even a LG item just to throw off the PCs. Bonus points if it's a soul gem of some other fool of a Paladin heh.

Option #2 for low magic baddies:

Evil that isn't threatening anyone isn't evil that should be smited. The Paladin code requires no evil act be committed. Murdering someone because they are evil is actually evil itself under RAW. Quite evil infact, sufficient to easily justify a fallen Paladin.

Anybody arguing otherwise has watched a bit too much Dexter. Paladin needs more than "I sensed his evil" to convince the local town guard. Have him get locked up in prison for murder. Better yet, strip him of his powers.

The Paladin doesn't decide how evil should be punished -- his deity does.

I'm sort of curious to know what other DMs think about allowing the old 3.5 sneak attack feats?

Let him play Goblin. Better yet let him play a Drow Noble. Consider early access to poison being allowed. Let him steal from NPCs if he rolls high enough Stealth. A sneaky rogue should absolutely have higher wealth than the rest of the party, possibly even combined. Bad DMs say "hurr the guards find you anyways". Don't be a bad DM, don't let NPCs meta stuff just because you're upset.

I've seen one Rogue with a potion of greater invisibility drop a BBEG with a simple flank from the fighter. DM nearly got up and left, it was pretty comical. Honestly, I think new players should shy away from playing Rogues unless they have some good advice...

Make sure you allow Stealth rolls whenever realistically possible, and realize that even the BBEG can be caught off-guard sometimes.

Let the player take Improved Sneak Attack or Craven from the 3.5 feats. Or allow Deadly Precision, Flick of the Wrist, Lingering Damage, Sacred Strike, Sneak Attack of Opportunity, Telling Blow or Assassin's Stance (+2d6 damage). Most of these 3.5 feats are easily transplanted into PF.

Or just allow a homebrew weapon enchant that boosts SA.

I hear all the time "Rogues are underpowered".

Absolute nonesense. It's just most people don't know how to play Rogues effectively. If you cooperate with the party tank, or find a way to get opponents flat-footed a lot, a high level Rogue can dump out truckloads of SA damage.

Doubly so if your DM lets you take the "re-roll all 1s" trick, and you stack it with some Assassin levels or something. Personally I allow Craven and Improved Sneak Attack from 3.5, so that makes Rogues even more powerful...

Come to think of it... I may write a Rogue guide.

For those unaware, the Necronomicon is the holy gospel of the Ancient ones. Long story short, I am running a PF campaign where an ancient one is sealed deep in a mega-dungeon of death.

Plot is some bitter old sociopathic lich wants to bust out an Old One is sealed beneath Golarion in a dungeon exactly 44 levels deep. Towards that end he's raised an army of undead and manipulated local Orc tribes into believing he's helping Orcus. He's playing some Rovagug cultists off the Orcs and also even has a few NPCs in Lastwall under his command, resurrecting powerful adventurers as part of his plot.

He leaves the Necronomicon out so that the PCs trapped in the dungeon might read it and survive longer, but also so that he might gain knowledge at the price of someone else's sanity being lost. Ultimately he needs many sacrifices and must feed the minds and souls of the powerful and true to the ancient one.

TL;DR: So how exactly would the Necronomicon translate into a PF item? :P

Point is it's a sign of a badly written module if all baddies at CR 10+ have no recourse other than targeting AC. Target his weak saves. If that fails, target his other allies. Target his CMD. Grapple him. Stack debuffs. Sunder armor.

If you're really mean, find a way to banish the Eidolon itself.

So I am running Rappan Athuk later this month. The players are being given triple starting goldand 25 point buy. Starting level 1. I've also said some templates and powerful races are OK.

1) Will this break the design of Rappan Athuk?

2) Is there anything specifically I should prepare for, regarding running this dungeon crawl?

3) I have a BBEG that has Forbidance cast on the entire dungeon to prevent teleport and phasing. He has raised incorporeals and plans to have them prevent the party from stone-shaping their way through the dungeon.

He plans to follow the party through a few scrying mechanisms and learn their battle strategies before sending raiders to engage them directly.

4) Is it considered poor form to alter a dungeon by adding traps, puzzles and changing encounters in the case 1 or more player has already ran it?

I have allowed a player character to use the race building rules from the ARG, but limit them to a standard (10 pt) race. Since most of the traits you are looking at require an advanced race I would not allow what the player wants to do. A player wanting to play something like a lizard man is fine, but if they want to play a storm giant they are out of luck.

My issue with that approach is this. With the RP point system, all they need do is pick 3 point DR, 4 point Advanced stats and 3 point flexible bonus feat. This blows away the average human build. Building a race allows players to min-max a "race" around a specific build, which is essentially cheesed out BS

One player is trying to start with Damage Reduction, SR and wings as a level 1, with the Fey subtype. His rationalization is "the ARG says I can make my own race". Other characteristics of the race are that he'd get greater invisibility as an SLA 1/day and advanced statistics to dexterity and all mental stats...

Would this fly in most home games? I don't think I am being too unreasonable here.

Faster access to spells for starters.

Spellbook allows for an "infinite" amount of spells known.

Bonus feats. Free Scribe Scroll.

INT based allows for mondo skillage.

School Specializations are pretty awesome, and sometimes a lot more versatile than bloodlines.

Spellbook allows for an "infinite" amount of spells known.

This times one thousand. Sorcerers may be more legit for blasting, but Wizards are versatile Gods at higher levels. Unlimited spells known is a massive advantage.

Rappan Athuk. Make the min-maxers eat their stew :p

The book seems somewhat ambiguous about morality in Golarion. What's to stop a 15th level Paladin from rolling into some small LE town and killing all the corrupt local officials, effectively forcing his morality on them through force?

6 points of damage in 5’ radius at 25g a pop? That will be useful. It won’t be game-breaking.

The channelling cleric will hit the whole room, and on a good roll can smoke every skeleton in a 30’ radius. Or she can zap them all day with Disrupt Undead for free. Also useful in the right circumstances. The adventure path you’re playing no doubt takes such abilities into account.

Dispel Undead and channeling are particularly nice against incorporeal undead. To hit an incorporeal undead with that holy water, you have to stand right next to them and sprinkle the holy water. At least it doesn’t provoke! But hey, you won’t have to worry about incorporeal undead, wraiths and ghosts and such, for lots and lots of levels! They’re way too deadly for low-level adventurers to face...right?

** spoiler omitted **

Carrion, my wayward son...

Can't Alchemists just take Holy Bombs at level 8, and the variant that deals d8s to corporeal undead? Plus with the Force Bombs discovery, wouldn't that force damage automatically hit incorporeals for automatic splash damage?

Seems it isn't so hard to make a cryptbreaker that deals 1d8 + 5 damage at level 1.... Seems to blow Channel Energy out of the water entirely actually, since most Undead have bad reflex saves :-/

So far what I have:

N Aasimar Cleric 1
Deity: Sarenrae
13 STR
7 DEX
14 CON
12 INT
14 WIS
20 CHA

Feats:
Improved Channel

Skills:
Diplomacy 11
Knowledge (religion) 5
Sense Motive 6

Domains: Day (Sun) and Glory
SLA: Daylight 1/day

Archetypes:

Variant Channeling (Disease)
Deathless Spirit +2 vs. some undead effects, no HP loss from negative levels and 5 negative energy resistance

Traits:
Cleansing Light - reroll any channel damage die that is 1 vs. undead
Sacred Conduit

Channel Positive Energy 8/day
1d6 + 1 DC21 save

Prepared Spells:

0th - Read Magic, Detect Magic, Light, Create Water
1st - Bless, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith

Hm, what if the Barbarian gets fast healing through some mechanism and then sets himself on fire? :-P (Let's say you convince a DM to let you play a Troll or something)

DM says it's a 25 point buy, starting level is 3. What sort of build would shine in this sort of dungeon crawl?