RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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For these PDFs from Kickstarter, what would be the process of getting new PDFs if updates are made?My assumption is that fulfillment of the PDF's will be done thru Legendary Games website, which allows for downloading updated versions (although I notice that there is a limit on the number of downloads, maybe they will modify that if there are updates).
Will you be re-printing all of the existing mythic spells and feats that are in Paizo's Mythic Adventures book or just including the ones that weren't in there? I'm assuming it will just have the new stuff, but I figured I'd ask anyway.Jason addressed this in the comments on the KS site, but the short answer is nothing will be reprinted from Mythic Adventures (his answer is much longer).
Correct on both counts. You will always be able to download updated PDFs if that needs to occur. We will probably do PDF fulfillment through our own site, though we could also host it through a commercial site. The only downside to doing so is that, since we would need to make the product available on that site to make it available for you to download, it would also become available to other customers, and it's a fair expectation for Kickstarter backers to expect to be able to get their copies before anyone else. We will see what the final arrangements will be as far as getting the PDFs to you, but rest assured that missing out on any PDF updates will not be an issue.
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Thank you for the info, Robert and Jason. I am now backing. Wish I could afford to throw down more than my $75, but I can't wait to get my grubby hands on these wonderful PDFs. ^_^
Though it will be a little sad to replace my Mythic Magic: Core Spells book. I'll just have to think of it as him growing up. I hope the backers will greatly exceed your expectations to the point where you have trouble thinking of new stretch goals to provide.
That's an interesting idea. The traits for WotR (once they increased in effect) eventually came out more along the power levels of a feat when it was all said and done. Revisiting the generic traits from the Advanced Player's Guide isn't something on the list of stretch goals yet, but I imagine it certainly could be at some of the higher tiers. A lot of those effects were campaign-specific, though. And so it would be more difficult to give a very satisfying power up for the generic traits. It would take a bit of creativity to make them really sing.
However, we're already on the verge of adding all the feats from the APG once we hit our next stretch goal (i.e., we're less than $250 away from it now). So, maybe it's worth considering as a new goal for later on. Just to gauge the interest level in something like that, what kind of importance would others put on seeing mythic traits in the Mythic Hero's Handbook?
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However, we're already on the verge of adding all the feats from the APG once we hit our next stretch goal (i.e., we're less than $250 away from it now). So, maybe it's worth considering as a new goal for later on. Just to gauge the interest level in something like that, what kind of importance would others put on seeing mythic traits in the Mythic Hero's Handbook?
Not necessarily Mythic traits, but maybe some Story / Campaign traits specifically for Mythic campaigns, where they start off at regular power level traits and maybe get a lil bump when the character becomes mythic or achieves some goal. I don't want to see traits that start off at mythic power level - that seems like it is just a version of rules creep, with newer, more powerful versions replacing the old ones.
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I have what I think the next unannounced stretch goals will be. It will be interesting to see how close I get to the real things.
And yeah I check the Kickstarter about 3 times a day watching the pledged amount going up.
Some things I would love to see -
Mythic Class Abilties, Feat and Spells from the Advanced Class guide (way down the line after the already published core players books).
And Mythic stuff for RGG classes and spells - like we are getting Mythic Legendary stuff and Mythic Psionics and Mythic Deep Magic... with whatever free time Owen has now that Paizo has hired him, in addition to his other stuff.
But those are more niche, and I could see that in it's own RGG book rather than here.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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I have what I think the next unannounced stretch goals will be. It will be interesting to see how close I get to the real things.
And yeah I check the Kickstarter about 3 times a day watching the pledged amount going up.
Some things I would love to see -
Mythic Class Abilties, Feat and Spells from the Advanced Class guide (way down the line after the already published core players books).
And Mythic stuff for RGG classes and spells - like we are getting Mythic Legendary stuff and Mythic Psionics and Mythic Deep Magic... with whatever free time Owen has now that Paizo has hired him, in addition to his other stuff.
But those are more niche, and I could see that in it's own RGG book rather than here.
Hey, have you been peeking in my files? :)
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By the way, we are just a few hundred dollars away from funding all three books in print and unlocking another set of pledge levels and bonus goals. Please help spread the word and get folks on board!
Have you poked Wolfgang or Jeremy to cross-promote to their Kickstarter backers for Deep Magic and Ultimate Psionics, or are they only going to do so once their respective content is up for inclusion?
By the way, we are just a few hundred dollars away from funding all three books in print and unlocking another set of pledge levels and bonus goals. Please help spread the word and get folks on board!Have you poked Wolfgang or Jeremy to cross-promote to their Kickstarter backers for Deep Magic and Ultimate Psionics, or are they only going to do so once their respective content is up for inclusion?
I've posted about it on our social media sites, but I try not to ask our Kickstarter backers to back more Kickstarters when they're still waiting for us to send them the rewards for the Kickstarters they've already backed. (Try saying that three times fast...)
It's a tough line to walk, because I don't want to keep people in the dark about projects they might be interested in... Thankfully, our miniatures should all be going out by the end of the month and all the majority of the rewards for Ultimate should be out soon.
I will probably post about it in the next week or two, once I have more milestones down for the other projects.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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ALL THREE PRINT BOOKS UNLOCKED!
And in a surge of pledges we blew right past the next bonus goal as well, including every spell from Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Combat into the Mythic Spell Compendium as well! New pledge levels available! New bonus goals listed!
Is it just me or are these a little expensive? $60 for a softcover book that starts (before stretch goals) at 64 pages. $40 shipping to UK? $10 more to get the PDF?
Even with stretch goals expanding the book these look very expensive
I think I shall have to wait to see what the book is available for post kickstarter.
Well it'll also be $60 (or $50 each if you get the bundle) for the hardcovers, the unlocking of which seems inevitable at this point. And kicktraq is suggesting the final total will be over $80,000, which seems like it would unlock a LOT of expansions.
EDIT: Of course, I speak as someone who doesn't have to worry about overseas shipping. That's just terrible. :(
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Is it just me or are these a little expensive? $60 for a softcover book that starts (before stretch goals) at 64 pages. $40 shipping to UK? $10 more to get the PDF?
My suspicion is that the actual cover prices for the books will be around $50. The $60 pledge price just includes US S&H.
The price is a bit high, but it is also a (relatively) small press run of a full-color book. At that volume, you can have physical quality or lower price, but not both.
International shipping is a big cost to Kickstarters and more than a few have ended up in the red because they didn't adequately plan for the expense in advance (including tariffs, taxes, etc). On the plus side, it looks like it is $40 for foreign shipping regardless of 1, 2, or 3 books, so folks save if they get all three.
And the PDF cost has been addressed in earlier posts in this thread. :)
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Is it just me or are these a little expensive? $60 for a softcover book that starts (before stretch goals) at 64 pages. $40 shipping to UK? $10 more to get the PDF?
Even with stretch goals expanding the book these look very expensive
I think I shall have to wait to see what the book is available for post kickstarter.
International shipping is, unfortunately, really expensive. If you think we're overcharging you, we're not; actually, if you order all three books we are UNDERcharging you. Check out the international postage rates from the U.S. Post Office (which is much cheaper than UPS or Federal Express):
Three books, which will be about 3 lbs. each mean that we cannot ship them by First Class International, so we have to send via Priority Mail International®. For three books, we should be able to use the Medium Flat Rate Box, which is 13-5/8" x 11-7/8" x 3-3/8" or 11" x 8-1/2" x 5-1/2", maximum weight 20 pounds, 6 - 10 business days to many major markets. Postage: $61.75 ($58.65 online)
If these books keep getting bigger, it's possible that three of them won't fit into one box, which would mean we'd have to use a Large Flat Rate Box, 23-11/16" x 11-3/4" x 3" or 12" x 12" x 5-1/2", maximum weight 20 pounds, 6 - 10 business days to many major markets. Postage: $80.50 ($76.50)
That's just for postage. That doesn't apply to the boxes themselves, packing supplies, or paying the people doing the fulfillment, customs forms, etc.
One of the things some Kickstarter backers might forget when they compare what they pledge to the final price of a book after it is produced is that, when they paid their pledge, their shipping was generally already included (for domestic customers) or discounted (for international customers). In this case, we mis-estimated the cost of shipping for the three books together, because I had forgotten the weight limit for First Class International and had thought we would be paying a lower rate for shipping. Since people have pledged at that level now, we can't go back and change it. C'est la vie and lesson learned for next time.
As for the larger issue of whether these prices are too high for the books, the short answer is "yes, of course that's too much to pay for a 64-page softcover book," but the essential point of a Kickstarter is that you are betting on the come, so to speak. You are pledging in the hope and expectation of what you'll get as an end product once the campaign is over, not the minimum-level product you'd get right when it starts. One week into a 37-day Kickstarter, our best-guess estimate on the current page counts for the three books are between 120 and 160 pages (each is progressing on a slightly different schedule based on the pledge goals), and if we continue at our projected pace all of the books will be over 300-page hardbacks. Are they a little more expensive than Paizo hardbacks of the same size? Yes. We can't match the ordering numbers they have, so we can't get books as cheaply as they do, so we have to charge a little more for them to make ends meet. It's as simple as that.
If you think the project looks interesting, make your pledge and help push us along. If you decide late in the game that it doesn't look like we'll meet the level you think we should, we'd love it if you'd stick with us but we'd understand if you canceled your pledge or reduced to a PDF-only level (no shipping involved there). That's the beauty of Kickstarter. You can try to MAKE something happen, and you can do that at no ultimate obligation until the final bell sounds and the Kickstarter is over. There will be some things available only to backers, and maybe you'll find something there that excites your imagination. I'd encourage you to give it a look, though, and hopefully you'll be impressed with what you see.
OK for 300 page Hardcover that is not bad, but it does mean I will not pledge until the stretch goals are reached, which sort of defeats the point...
Of course I realise that I have spent a small fortune on kickstarter Pathfinder things to date, so I suspect I will back this eventually
Alright, you guys got me. I just kicked in. Sounds like a great product!
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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OK for 300 page Hardcover that is not bad, but it does mean I will not pledge until the stretch goals are reached, which sort of defeats the point...
Of course I realise that I have spent a small fortune on kickstarter Pathfinder things to date, so I suspect I will back this eventually
We appreciate your support any time you can give it. It may be worth your while to just pledge at the PDF level now, or even to make a token $5 pledge, so you can get all of the backer updates, participate in backer-only polls, and help us reach goals based on total number of backers. Then, if the print level comes to the point that you deem is sufficient, trade up your pledge at that point. Every dollar we get pledged now helps us get the books to the point you'd like to see them (and so would we!).
It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy: If a lot of people wait until we reach stretch goals before they make a pledge, we may not reach the levels they want. On the other hand, people love success, and the more people pledge now (in anticipation of getting to the bigger rewards), the more OTHER people sitting on the fence will pledge as well.
Like the self-help books tell us, "Be the change you wish to see!"
In addition, even if you ultimately pledge early and the final product doesn't appear to be rounding out to the hardcover size you had hoped for...you also still have the option of going back in at the end and canceling out of your pledge, too. At least, I've always assumed that option remains...i.e., you take your pledge back down to zero, I think.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Yes, Kickstarter allows you to modify or even cancel your pledge at any time up to the when the funding duration finally ends. We had one backer on our Gothic Campaign Compendium Kickstarter who pledged and canceled at least half a dozen times. I can't even remember for sure now whether he ended up backing us or not. :)
Now we need to reach $20K so we can add the Deep Magic spells to the mythic line-up. Those will be well worth it to everyone. And, after that, we focus in on turning these books into hardcovers with even more content. Keep spreading the word!
I'm excited to see if we hit 30k and unlock mythic psionics! It would go awesomely with the copy of Ultimate Psionics that I have on preorder :-D. Let's make it happen guys!
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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We are just over $200 away from adding DEEP MYTHIC to the book, and then we hit the turn and set our sights on HARDCORE HARDBACKS and MYTHIC PSIONICS as our next big $5,000 goals... but don't forget we have additional bonus goals EVERY THOUSAND DOLLARS! Some goals are bigger than others, but you never have to wait long to add more, More, MORE to the MYTHIC MANIA!
When I pledged, the point at which I thought "this is a great price, and exactly what I want" were all the feats spells class abilities from CRB, APG, UM and UC. That all hits at 24,000.The only other piece I REALLY wanted to have is the Psioncis (and I'm sure we will hit that).
Everything else is just icing for me. I've very happy with the way this has turned out, and can't wait to see what else gets added.
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Wow. This one is going up and up and up, and honestly quite a bit faster than I really expected it to. I always figured it would hit the print editions of all three books, but I was kind of worried about getting the Mythic Psionics add-in at 30k. I'm not worried in the slightest any more. :D
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Thanks to all of you for your great support in taking us up and over the top for our latest bonus goal: DEEP MYTHIC!!! Let's keep it going!
Love that it is moving so fast that 2 voting links for monsters were in 1 email.
Could I hope in
Mythic Companion Boon- Lets you have a more powerful creature as your companion/familiar, like an unicorn companion or a familiar with more than CR 2-3.
Mythic Planar Wildshape- Lets you assume the half-celestial or half-fiend template while in wildshape.
Mythic Celestial Servant- Gives to your mount the half-celestial template (if only for a brief period a day)
If you sponsor a feat/spell, do you get any say in the design? or is just auto included?
You can always throw out ideas, but if you want to make sure you see things in the book... sponsor it in! :)
I thought only published feats could be sponsored to be mythicked. Sadly, I don't have enough money to sponsor all that I would. When I back, I probably could think about sponsoring Mythic Adept Channel. ^_^
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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True, good catch. The sponsorship is for published rules elements that are not part of the Core Rules line, such as feats from a Player Companion or Campaign Setting product.
That said, fans are always welcome to throw out ideas. You never know when good seed will hit fertile ground, and there may yet be room for brand-new mythic content.
This is probably not the place to post this, but the thread is getting a lot of traffic, so I’ll take a shot and hope Jason can answer.
Question: What ever happened to Ultimate War? I understand that things happen, but this is getting beyond ridiculous. Last year you said it would be out before winter, then in early January before the end of the month, and now it’s going on the second week in April and still nothing. I love your company and its products, but I’m getting mad enough to stop buying them. Considering I have purchased every one you have put out so far, that is saying something. I’m not trying to be a jerk here, I’m just concerned. Some current information would be appreciated.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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This is probably not the place to post this, but the thread is getting a lot of traffic, so I’ll take a shot and hope Jason can answer.
Question: What ever happened to Ultimate War? I understand that things happen, but this is getting beyond ridiculous. Last year you said it would be out before winter, then in early January before the end of the month, and now it’s going on the second week in April and still nothing. I love your company and its products, but I’m getting mad enough to stop buying them. Considering I have purchased every one you have put out so far, that is saying something. I’m not trying to be a jerk here, I’m just concerned. Some current information would be appreciated.
Hi Valantrix,
I'm happy to answer, though the answer is unfortunately not very helpful. I wrote a good chunk of it late last summer/early last fall, then got derailed by our last Kickstarter, then a bit more over the winter, then a bit more here and there. The sad truth is that somewhere along the line I lost my design momentum on Ultimate War and just haven't been able to get it back the way I'd like to. I find pockets of ideas here and there, but I've never really been able to get it going. It happens sometimes with a creative project, where you just kind of stall. Add to that a bunch of other things that have come up, both things you see publicly (like this Kickstarter partnership with Kobold, Rogue Genius, and Dreamscarred) as well as things you don't, and delay has piled on top of delay.
It's very frustrating for me, not just because Ultimate Rulership and Ultimate Battle have been top sellers for us, but also because I've been wanting to get this thing up and out for a long time. Each time I've tried to restart working on it, I get a little done but never enough to really start the engine running at full speed again. In terms of managing my game-writing time (i.e., after day job and family and other commitments), when I have to make a choice between something I think I can finish easily and something that will be a grind, the path of least resistance and most productivity has been to work on other things. It sometimes feels like I have a mental block about this one project; it's very strange and not something I've really experienced before. I'm generally very prolific with writing, and I have the loose ideas in my head of what I think things should be, but sitting down to get them out has been a struggle for reasons I can't entirely explain. They say it happens to every creative at some point - that one project that just keeps eluding you.
It's no fun to not be able to deliver a project I thought I'd have finished long ago, and your frustration is certainly warranted. I share it, probably times ten. I don't think it's being a jerk at all to ask, and I appreciate your support of all our past products and hope you continue to enjoy what we are producing now.
To answer your question specifically, the current status of Ultimate War is as follows:
The manuscript stands at about 13,000 words, out of what will probably be about double that by the end. Some sections are done, like siege warfare. Other sections are in some state of progress, like mercenaries, troop conversions, naval combat, and aerial combat. The art is done.
My writing time at the moment is taken up with two different undisclosed projects. The smaller of those is nearing completion. The larger is about 20,000 words and barely started, with a deadline in mid-May.
Next week is my school's spring break, so I should be able to do some catch-up on writing once my taxes are done. Our summer break begins in early June, so I'll have more time available then to knock out bigger projects. If it's not completed before then, I may just shackle myself to my desk until it is. :)
TL;DR - It's not done, and I won't be able to finish it soon. I apologize for all the MANY delays with it, but I want it to be awesome when it finally arrives so I'm not going to push out a half-assed version just to say I did it. I'd rather be late and awesome than on-time and lame.
Hero Lab files are apparently a very real possibility at some point. I've been following this KS since it was initially announced quite awhile ago, and I know that there is definitely talks and plans to try and pull off Hero Lab support.
Of course, I am not an official rep, just somebody whose been helping spread the word and answer a few questions I've already seen answered by Jason, Rachel or Neil.
I'm not as involved or close to the action on the Hero Lab thing, but I know Rachel has helped coordinate that type of support for other Kickstarters in the past, and I also know she's actively pursuing it for this one, as well. That said, when you look at the breadth and depth of crunch-able content in these books, that's going to be a big effort for someone to create the Hero Lab files for it. Legendary doesn't have anyone on staff who would take that on. So, we'd have to solicit outside assistance in making it happen. Therefore, including it as an add-on will most likely be one of the stretch goals.
If you visit the Kickstarter site for our project, you can see the stretch goals Jason has listed so far. None of them currently contain the Hero Lab support. I'm not sure that's so much because it'll be a really high goal, or if it's because Rachel hasn't worked out the details for including it yet. Either way, if there's a large outcry for Hero Lab, we'll need your support (i.e., pledges) to make it happen.
For those sitting on the sidelines waiting to see if Hero Lab support ever materializes before committing to the project, you're actually decreasing the odds of us hitting the stretch goal which would eventually include it. So, your best bet is to do yourself a favor and pledge to the Kickstarter. Then, watch the stretch goals materialize after Rachel has worked out all the behind-the-scenes details surrounding Hero Lab support. If she finds a way to get it included and your pledges help push us high enough to secure the funding for it, it'll be there. If, on the other hand, it doesn't materialize, you can always go back and cancel your pledge.
To me, that's the best win-win scenario if you want to see it happen. Just telling us you (and your gaming group) won't pledge for it without Hero Lab files isn't something that's necessarily going to make it happen. The work effort has to be achievable, and the funding has to be there for it. These are the concerns and realities of trying to run a successful Kickstarter as a small third-party publisher.
But that's just my two cents,
--Neil
This is probably not the place to post this, but the thread is getting a lot of traffic, so I’ll take a shot and hope Jason can answer.
Question: What ever happened to Ultimate War? I understand that things happen, but this is getting beyond ridiculous. Last year you said it would be out before winter, then in early January before the end of the month, and now it’s going on the second week in April and still nothing. I love your company and its products, but I’m getting mad enough to stop buying them. Considering I have purchased every one you have put out so far, that is saying something. I’m not trying to be a jerk here, I’m just concerned. Some current information would be appreciated.
Hi Valantrix,
I'm happy to answer, though the answer is unfortunately not very helpful. I wrote a good chunk of it late last summer/early last fall, then got derailed by our last Kickstarter, then a bit more over the winter, then a bit more here and there. The sad truth is that somewhere along the line I lost my design momentum on Ultimate War and just haven't been able to get it back the way I'd like to. I find pockets of ideas here and there, but I've never really been able to get it going. It happens sometimes with a creative project, where you just kind of stall. Add to that a bunch of other things that have come up, both things you see publicly (like this Kickstarter partnership with Kobold, Rogue Genius, and Dreamscarred) as well as things you don't, and delay has piled on top of delay.
It's very frustrating for me, not just because Ultimate Rulership and Ultimate Battle have been top sellers for us, but also because I've been wanting to get this thing up and out for a long time. Each time I've tried to restart working on it, I get a little done but never enough to really start the engine running at full speed again. In terms of managing my game-writing time (i.e., after day job and family and other commitments), when I have to make a choice between...
Thanks Jason, that's all I really wanted to hear. I think the lack of status updates on the project is what has frustrated me most. Soon as I get paid, I'll be all in on the kickstarter! Good luck, it looks awesome!
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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We look forward to your support, Valantrix!
And to all of the fans looking for HeroLab support, we are trying to get it done, but in business you never promise what you can't deliver. At least, that's the way I do business. I absolutely hope that we can provide it, and I'll let you once we find out for sure.
Meanwhile, if anyone has contact information for reliable HeroLab coders, tell send it along to (or have them contact me directly at) makeyourgamelegendary@gmail.com. If the Lone Wolf people aren't able to do it themselves, perhaps a freelance option would be viable.