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Yes. But not because of that.
Because of Gunslinger 5/Mindchemist X with Explosive Missile, Conductive Weapon, Targeted Bomb Admixture, Sonic (and/or Force) Bombs and Kirin Style. Tank Charisma and take the traits to boost your Diplomacy, Bluff and UMD through Int.
All the knowledges, all the damage, all the face and you get to be a gunslinger (all the cool).
Spend a round to drink a TBA extract and activate Kirin Style [use Combat Style Master to make this two rounds instead of three] (or not if there are several enemies). Load your weapon and fire it as a standard action. Use a free action to activate Conductive Weapon. Knock the enemy prone and deafen them while dealing the damage of two (mostly unresistable) bombs, a gun shot, and tack on Kirin Strike. Should be somewhere between 80-120 damage a round on a single target at level 8ish. Oh, and you hit touch AC with a Distance Pistol at 60 feet.
The DM is allowing the Alchemist to make Holy Water. Is this RAW legal? SRD seems to suggest he needs bless water spell.
He doesn't need to make it in order to throw it.
No.
Especially not with this example. 6 damage is decent at 1st/2nd level. That's about it.
They can nova pretty good later on with Bombs, carpet bombing areas and giving status effects, but they're still not overpowered, not least because you can only do it once, maybe twice a day.
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Only if you're comparing them to Rogues.
No.
Especially not with this example. 6 damage is decent at 1st/2nd level. That's about it.
They can nova pretty good later on with Bombs, carpet bombing areas and giving status effects, but they're still not overpowered, not least because you can only do it once, maybe twice a day.
+1
We have one in our level 7 party and at lower levels it was very good, but as soon it needed to compete to others in the Party that now have 2 attacks per round or 3 when hasted, the alchemist falls behind. They quickly become balanced when they reach mid levels.
Also 9 points of splash damage was great at level 5, but I doubt it will be as powerful when we are level 10.
I would even go as far saying the bombs are possibly weak at higher levels because they can only nova once per day. What then? Should they part go home? Should they throw just a few bombs the next encounter in case we run into more trouble?
It’s like a Paladin that can only smite evil once or maximum twice per day. OK at level 4, but pretty weak at level 10.
What I can say about the class is that is seems to be a very fun and versatile class to play. It is far more than just a DPR machine.
I am making an Alchemist for an upcoming undead-heavy adventure path, and I am reading that with Throw Anything, I will do splash damage of 6 if I throw Holy Water at undead on my 20 INT alchemist. There is no save for this.
Doesn't that effectively make this character more powerful than a cleric of the same level?
Damage should be minumum 7 = 2d4 + 5
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Damage should be minumum 7 = 2d4 + 5I am making an Alchemist for an upcoming undead-heavy adventure path, and I am reading that with Throw Anything, I will do splash damage of 6 if I throw Holy Water at undead on my 20 INT alchemist. There is no save for this.
Doesn't that effectively make this character more powerful than a cleric of the same level?
+1 more damage from Throw Anything, it's easy to miss.
And unless you go out of your way to make them broken, they're fine. They're a great baseline class for what you should be capable of in the game if I'm being honest, and I deeply love them for it.
Throw Anything only grants a +1 circumstance bonus on attack rolls, not to damage.
I have no problem with Holy handgranades doing 2d4+5 in the hands of an expert. It May feel powerfull at level 1 but i think 25 gp pr grande is gonna limit it quite a bit.
Throw Anything only grants a +1 circumstance bonus on attack rolls, not to damage.
Alchemist version also adds their Int bonus to all damage done by Splash weapons including the Splash damage. It's a class feature that combines with the Feat.
I know. 2d4 (holy water) +5 (int bonus) = 2d4+5
6 points of damage in 5’ radius at 25g a pop? That will be useful. It won’t be game-breaking.
The channelling cleric will hit the whole room, and on a good roll can smoke every skeleton in a 30’ radius. Or she can zap them all day with Disrupt Undead for free. Also useful in the right circumstances. The adventure path you’re playing no doubt takes such abilities into account.
Dispel Undead and channeling are particularly nice against incorporeal undead. To hit an incorporeal undead with that holy water, you have to stand right next to them and sprinkle the holy water. At least it doesn’t provoke! But hey, you won’t have to worry about incorporeal undead, wraiths and ghosts and such, for lots and lots of levels! They’re way too deadly for low-level adventurers to face...right?
“Naw, guys, we don’t need a cleric! My holy water does way more damage, and I can heal you and all. Hey, what’s a ‘haunt’? I hear there’s lots of them in Virlych...good thing we’re never going there!”
6 points of damage in 5’ radius at 25g a pop? That will be useful. It won’t be game-breaking.
The channelling cleric will hit the whole room, and on a good roll can smoke every skeleton in a 30’ radius. Or she can zap them all day with Disrupt Undead for free.
Strangely enough, Disrupt Undead isn't available to clerics.
My thoughts for considering whether a class is OP in combat go like this...
1. Are the able to, effectively remove or take out or make useless at least one enemy a round, every round, in an actual 4 encounter adventuring day.
Yes/No
2. How does this compare to the other members of the party?
Much Better/Much Worse
3. Are they able to take out or make useless MORE than 1 enemy a round?
4. How does that compare to the other members of the party?
5. Extrapolate, will this be the case in 5 levels...in 10 levels...in 15 levels? (sometimes a class shines a lot for a few levels, alchemists definetely can in the early levels and have a few moments in later levels where they pull off a wonder or two)
6. Finally...are they more effective out of battle than other classes too? (some classes are pretty darn amazing in combat, because they can't do much else outside of it...it's their time to shine for a few levels otherwise...let them have it...it will be someone elses after a bit...in a different situation)
I guess I let them shine, unless they are outshining everyone always. Then I look at it because there is probably a rule being used wrong or something.
Strangely enough, Disrupt Undead isn't available to clerics.6 points of damage in 5’ radius at 25g a pop? That will be useful. It won’t be game-breaking.
The channelling cleric will hit the whole room, and on a good roll can smoke every skeleton in a 30’ radius. Or she can zap them all day with Disrupt Undead for free.
It is, via a trait (two world magic). In an undead heavy campaign that can be totally worth it.
Yes. But not because of that.
Because of Gunslinger 5/Mindchemist X with Explosive Missile, Conductive Weapon, Targeted Bomb Admixture, Sonic (and/or Force) Bombs and Kirin Style. Tank Charisma and take the traits to boost your Diplomacy, Bluff and UMD through Int.
All the knowledges, all the damage, all the face and you get to be a gunslinger (all the cool).
Spend a round to drink a TBA extract and activate Kirin Style [use Combat Style Master to make this two rounds instead of three] (or not if there are several enemies). Load your weapon and fire it as a standard action. Use a free action to activate Conductive Weapon. Knock the enemy prone and deafen them while dealing the damage of two (mostly unresistable) bombs, a gun shot, and tack on Kirin Strike. Should be somewhere between 80-120 damage a round on a single target at level 8ish. Oh, and you hit touch AC with a Distance Pistol at 60 feet.
If you go Grenadier and take the cognatogen discovery instead of going Mindchemist, you can stack Alchemical Weapon on it as well. You might lose versatility outside combat, but you get a few new combat tricks instead and your shot deals 7xInt damage.
Is this overpowered? Nah, the base Fighter still does more damage full-attacking in 1 round than you do in the 2 it takes to set this up, and each shot uses 3 bombs. On the other hand, who cares? You've still got enough skill points to make a rogue jealous, 5-th level extracts, and you can make things go BOOM!
Overpowered?
No, but it is--nowadays--my favored class.
The versatility is awesome.
@topic: I don't think the alchemist is too strong.
@holy water: I once build (but never played) an alchemist pc for carrion crown with a dip into water witch and the false focus feat. Fluffed as a priest of razmir. With that combo I could make holy water for free and deal splash damage with it.
To keep that splash-weapon a viable option longer, consider the Hybridization Funnel, which might (depending on the local GMoid field polarity) allow you to apply your INT to damage, twice, while doing Holy/Fire damage, or Fire/Acid, or whatever.
We also used it to make a burger topping that tastes like Barbeque Sauce AND Ketchup, and not like both mixed together. (My Alchemist was a chef...)
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I'm not great at building characters, so as a result, I gave the alchemist a go (after playing a witch and a gunslinger, among others).
I've found there's still a lot of limitations with the alchemist, like immunities/resistances, bombs/day, limited amount of extracts per day.
It adds up to the class being able to shine at certain times and being pretty messy at other times. There might be ways around this through optimising, but that's the case with just about any class.
Carrion, my wayward son...
Can't Alchemists just take Holy Bombs at level 8, and the variant that deals d8s to corporeal undead? Plus with the Force Bombs discovery, wouldn't that force damage automatically hit incorporeals for automatic splash damage?
Seems it isn't so hard to make a cryptbreaker that deals 1d8 + 5 damage at level 1.... Seems to blow Channel Energy out of the water entirely actually, since most Undead have bad reflex saves :-/
Oh, are we designing undead-countering characters? Like, say, a Sun/Glory cleric, or one that channels to control undead? ("Now devour each other in the order you were created. Last one left, set yourself on fire. In the fireplace, please.")
You won't hear me argue that an Alchemist can't be built to blow undead to hell. But I think it's hard to argue that clerics can't be in the same weight class when it comes to dealing with undead.
"Uh, so...can I hit the Tyrant's Whispers with a force bomb? Or something?"
Edited to add: You get maximum style points for the opening pun, by the way.