| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What do I think this class needs? I think the animal companion should move to d10 hit die like the eidolon and gain "companion talents" similar to rogue talents. Also, the hunter should get a few spells from the ranger spell list.
d10s mean full base attack progression. I am just hearing more people agree with me that bear friend should just be a fighter.
When I saw this class I immediately thought about hunters from ragnarok (the MMO), who had animal companions to fight with them, as well as being able to use traps against their enemies. It would be cool if we could add something like a "trap mechanic" to this hunter, maybe something along these lines:
"Normal trap: You place a normal trap in any adjacent square. If someone passes through it, the trap is triggered, doing lethal damage plus preventing the target from moving for 1 round. He gets a reflex save to avoid these effects."
"Ice trap: You place an ice trap in any adjacent square. If someone passes through it, the trap is triggered, doing cold damage plus affecting him with slow (as per the spell, CL equals hunter level). He gets a reflex save to avoid these effects."
"Explosive trap: You place an explosive trap in any adjacent square. If someone passes through it, the trap is triggered, releasing an explosion (as per the fireball spell, centered on target, CL equals hunter level). He gets a reflex save to avoid half damage."
Just throwing some ideas, as traps seems to combine well with the concept of a hunter, in my opinion.
When I saw this class I immediately thought about hunters from ragnarok (the MMO), who had animal companions to fight with them, as well as being able to use traps against their enemies. It would be cool if we could add something like a "trap mechanic" to this hunter, maybe something along these lines:
"Normal trap: You place a normal trap in any adjacent square. If someone passes through it, the trap is triggered, doing lethal damage plus preventing the target from moving for 1 round. He gets a reflex save to avoid these effects."
"Ice trap: You place an ice trap in any adjacent square. If someone passes through it, the trap is triggered, doing cold damage plus affecting him with slow (as per the spell, CL equals hunter level). He gets a reflex save to avoid these effects."
"Explosive trap: You place an explosive trap in any adjacent square. If someone passes through it, the trap is triggered, releasing an explosion (as per the fireball spell, centered on target, CL equals hunter level). He gets a reflex save to avoid half damage."
Just throwing some ideas, as traps seems to combine well with the concept of a hunter, in my opinion.
This! This is actually exactly what I had in mind when I heard about the class. The trap building would fit the flavor brilliantly, especially with the class name being hunter. I assumed that they would have an animal companion, similar to a hunting dog. To add traps to this class would be very interesting. I've never come across a trap-builder, and I feel that this would be incredibly fun to play.
d10s mean full base attack progression. I am just hearing more people agree with me that bear friend should just be a fighter.
Believe me, it won't be as strong as a fighter even with full BAB. It still caps out at 16 hit die.
My thought...
- Animal Companion gains Ranger's combat style (Natural Weapon).
- Hunter Tactics affects AC and Hunter's summoned Nature's ally.
- At 15th level, Hunter gains "Third Animal Focus".
- Frog Focus had better give bonus to Swim check only. And Cat Focus (Acrobat bonus) is added.
I like the idea of a mystical or bagical beast companion, but they seem to have been really reluctant to add even the ones that are basically slightly sturdier animals (such as the worg).
I also think something modeled after the mammoth lords way to boost the compsnion is good. But mandatory huge size for a non prc is not good.
Edit one thing they coukd do is add proper instructions for adding celestial fiendidh etc to a companion. As I understand some parts like sr are still murky.
I like the idea of a mystical or bagical beast companion, but they seem to have been really reluctant to add even the ones that are basically slightly sturdier animals (such as the worg).
I also think something modeled after the mammoth lords way to boost the compsnion is good. But mandatory huge size for a non prc is not good.Edit one thing they coukd do is add proper instructions for adding celestial fiendidh etc to a companion. As I understand some parts like sr are still murky.
That is why I think choosing between Advanced or Giant as a template would be best. Huge might be cool for some player and some campaigns... or even some PCs (Huge Grizzly Bear!! RAWR)
But they are pretty even... both CR+1
So you can go for the big companion or the advanced one. This means that you could have a large version of one of the medium pets, like the boar, or an advanced medium or large pet, or a huge pet.... it just adds a lot of options.
I think that the increased natural armor progression that the Mammoth Rider gets is a very good idea. Companion durability is a big deal for this class, and changing the companion's hit die type is more of a wonky way to do that. They could also give the Hunter's companion Toughness for free.
Just seems like a nerfed ranger with full animal companion.
Totaly desnecessary.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would love to have a magical beast companion, maybe give them ability points like the summoner gets but more limited.
This! This is actually exactly what I had in mind when I heard about the class. The trap building would fit the flavor brilliantly, especially with the class name being hunter. I assumed that they would have an animal companion, similar to a hunting dog. To add traps to this class would be very interesting. I've never come across a trap-builder, and I feel that this would be incredibly fun to play.When I saw this class I immediately thought about hunters from ragnarok (the MMO), who had animal companions to fight with them, as well as being able to use traps against their enemies. It would be cool if we could add something like a "trap mechanic" to this hunter, maybe something along these lines:
"Normal trap: You place a normal trap in any adjacent square. If someone passes through it, the trap is triggered, doing lethal damage plus preventing the target from moving for 1 round. He gets a reflex save to avoid these effects."
"Ice trap: You place an ice trap in any adjacent square. If someone passes through it, the trap is triggered, doing cold damage plus affecting him with slow (as per the spell, CL equals hunter level). He gets a reflex save to avoid these effects."
"Explosive trap: You place an explosive trap in any adjacent square. If someone passes through it, the trap is triggered, releasing an explosion (as per the fireball spell, centered on target, CL equals hunter level). He gets a reflex save to avoid half damage."
Just throwing some ideas, as traps seems to combine well with the concept of a hunter, in my opinion.
Indeed, the trap-builder mechanic would add a lot of flavor to the hunter, as traps combine very well with the concept of one. Its also easy to balance this, in the above example he could have the normal/explosive trap on low levels, while on high levels he could get more powerful effects added to them, like stun.
The name of the class would be much more fitting with this, in my opinion. His animal companion would still be his main focus, this is just to differentiate him some more from his parents, making him unique.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sorry but wouldn't that just be the Trapper Archtype for ranger?
I mean, companion, martial prowess and traps...
I am not sure that the Hunter would be distinct enough if it went this route (though it certainly isnt distinct right now anyway)
I was thinking; I know The Animal Focus is going to be changed but overall there are too many animals to represent with this to have a static list. What if there were 'packages' much like bloodlines or domains that can be acquired which represents an animal and has a list of 'beast aspects' that can be gone through using Animal Focus. This way can open some design space for introducing new packages for future products.
I know that Druid has a lot of creature archetypes so this may be a reason not to push the beastmorph aspect of the hunter.
For that matter I wonder why not give them access to a druid's animal domains.
|
The name of the class would be much more fitting with this, in my opinion. His animal companion would still be his main focus, this is just to differentiate him some more from his parents, making him unique.
Exactly - the ranger will beat the hunter at combat in general, and the druid has the better spells, but hunter should have the better animal companion than either.
I wouldn't mind if the Hunter got traps like the trapper ranger, but as much as I enjoy them and the flavor (and it's kind of nostalgic, since I played a Survival Hunter in WoW way back before it was considered a good tree--when it was still the trap/melee/wyvern sting tree), the trapper traps are, well, pretty terrible, so I'd like to see them beefed up a little if the Hunter got them.
I still think buffing the companion is the key, but I'd take traps as a consolation prize.
I see a lot of folks wanting a better Animal Companion. I'd just like to throw my suggestion out here again.
We should steal some stuff from the Summoner's Eidolon.
d10s Full BAB Upgrade points (Flavor it Nature's Blessings, upgrades that make the animal hardier, feats, more ferocious) complete with the Mental Link.
I see a lot of folks wanting a better Animal Companion. I'd just like to throw my suggestion out here again.
Just to clarify, I wouldn't want a better animal companion, I just think it'd make for the best implementation of the class.
Personally, I'd rather have a better version of the traps (now that it was mentioned, I'm liking the idea more and more), non-enhancement stat bonuses (with longer durations, for sure), and ranger-style, ignore the pre-reqs bonus feats. That'd still be kind of weak, but fun enough to satisfy me.
I see a lot of folks wanting a better Animal Companion. I'd just like to throw my suggestion out here again.Just to clarify, I wouldn't want a better animal companion, I just think it'd make for the best implementation of the class.
Personally, I'd rather have a better version of the traps (now that it was mentioned, I'm liking the idea more and more), non-enhancement stat bonuses (with longer durations, for sure), and ranger-style, ignore the pre-reqs bonus feats. That'd still be kind of weak, but fun enough to satisfy me.
Man this class is looking better and better to get my friends who play WoW into it. Not that thats a bad thing mind you. Accessibility rocks.
I like the idea of a divine pet class to go along with the arcane one.
My thought...
Animal companions can have ranks in any of the following skills: Acrobatics* (Dex), Climb* (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly* (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Perception* (Wis), Stealth* (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim* (Str).
So, at least Animal Focus that enhance these skill should be.
Acrobatics->Cat, Climb->Monkey, Escape Artist->Newt, Fly->Crane, Intimidate->Lion, Perception->Falcon, Stealth->Owl, Swim->Frog.
And while using any Animmal Focus, Hunter gains bonus on Survival ,Handle Animal, and Wild Empathy check as well.
After a quick playtest and reading this forum, I have a few ideas I'd like to throw out...
Skills - definitely 6+Int Mod.
Weapons - All Simple & Martial weapons
Armor - Light, Medium, Shields [ No Metal ]
Animal Focus - As written, but grants the Favored Terrain ability tied to the animal you are channeling as well. Bonus starts at +2 and goes up as normal.
Combat Style of the Ranger
Starting at 3rd level gain +1 To Hit & Damage as long as both the Hunter and his AC are taking Full Attack Actions against the same target. This is similar to the Two-Weapon Warrior archetype's two-weapon combat bonus. I think it adds a good bump to paired combat, but doesn't make the class strictly better than the Ranger.
Hunter's Magic - At 4th level and every three levels thereafter the Hunter can add a number of spells from the Ranger spell list to his list of spells usable, equal to his Wisdom modifier.
Master Hunter - 20th Level - keep what they have but add the Improved Quarry Ranger ability. C'mon, its freakin 20th Level!
|
if the hunter is going to focus a little more on the animal companion, i'd love to see the animal companion elevated from a regular animal, to an animal with a more sentient intelligence ( give it 8 int instead of 2 int ) , and reduce the need to rely on tricks when communicating with it. change the type to magical beast, similar to the celestial companion feat option for aasimars, without changing any of its other stats/HD.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
No one expects the Druish Inquisition.
You know what would be wicked? Fey companion.... just saying.
Flying monkeys?
Just evokes imagery of the deep woods where the rules of the world are dictated by the primal energies of nature rather than anything that can be controlled by man. Maybe the hunter has an affinity with the places where the barrier between the material realm and the first world are paper thin....
Princess Mononoake?
Pretty much.... I happen to love that movie
Same! Great flick.
I love that movie.
The class needs more Princess Mononoke parallels.
It should be heavy-handed, pretentious art-nonsense? :P
If that ain't flame bait I don't know what is.The class needs more Princess Mononoke parallels.It should be heavy-handed, pretentious art-nonsense? :P
Now I'm going to make a gunslinger based off of one of the characters out of spite.
The class needs more Princess Mononoke parallels.It should be heavy-handed, pretentious art-nonsense? :P
lol... Isn't Miyazaki a national treasure or something?
This is like calling raging bull a steaming turd. There's just no accounting for taste.
Honestly I love the idea of the Hunter class. Warriors with smarter than average animal friends are a staple of fantasy and and I love the idea of a class that fights side by side with his companion.
And at least to me most of the class looks to be on the right track, but when I saw the unique feature of the Hunter, the Animal Focus, I was extremely disappointed. I can't deny the usefulness of a flat stat bonus but what else is that boring? Hunters are wily and scrappy, using various tricks and lures to capture prey, so why are the supernatural powers they borrow so boring?
Part of the problem I feel is that the Hunter is pulled from the Druid and Ranger and so it's abilities are similar, but like the fantastically designed Investigator, why not give Hunters something kind of unique?
This is what I propose:
Animal Focus
- Hunter's gain the ability to channel the abilities and aspects of various animals. A Hunter may use this ability as a swift action a number of times per day equal to 1/2 her Hunter level plus her wisdom modifier. When she uses this ability she may select one of the following animals to emulate gaining the ability for one round. She may choose to allow her animal companion to benefit from these abilities instead.
Bear: Gain a number of temporary hitpoints equal to you hunter level for the same number of rounds. These temporary hit points don't stack.
Bull: After a successful charge attack gain a free bull-rush attempt and ignore the AC penalties for the charge.
Falcon: For the first round of a surprise round in which you can act, treat you initiative roll as 20.
Frog: Stand up from prone as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Monkey: Gain a climb speed equal to half your base speed.
Owl: Move at full speed with no stealth penalties and take only half the penalty (-10) for sniping.
Snake: Take a move action and move at half your speed, this movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Stag: Gain a 20ft enhancement to speed.
Tiger: Take one additional attack at your highest bonus during a full-attack action, this additional attack cannot stack with any other ability or spell that grants additional attacks.
Wolf: Replace one melee attack with a trip combat maneuver with a +2 bonus.
I think with the combination of the improvements already mentioned, and a strong ability the Hunter could really stand out and be a lot of fun to play.
My thought...
-Hunter can use Evasion, Camouflage, Improved Evasion and Hide in plain sight class features as Ranger whenever he is using his Animal Focus class feature.
Why not turn the Hunter into an Evolutionist?
He would keep the same basic frame (2/3 cast, 3/4 BaB, Druid list) but he would be focused in obtaining evolutions (animal or monster based permanent features) much like the Synthetist in a way, but with only one sheet.
Am I the only one who thinks the basic concept of the Hunter is pretty well covered by the Summoner?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Am I the only one who thinks the basic concept of the Hunter is pretty well covered by the Summoner?
Don't forget Druid, Ranger, Inquisitor and Cavalier either.
In their current design, Hunters are much worse than any of those classes... Except, maybe, Cavaliers.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
We ran one playtest with a 5th-level Hunter, and the Hunter stole the show. She was built with 17str, 14dex, 14con, 10int, 14wis, 10cha; mithril breastplate and Tribal Scars feat for 35-ft speed; the Andoran Captain's Blade trait for Acrobatics; scythe for main weapon; a tiger companion; and the precise strike teamwork feat. With the Hunter and tiger both being fairly speedy and acrobatic, they easily got into flank with one another, and once they were there they just ripped things to shreds.
There definitely needs to be more teamwork feats to chose from... too many of them are designed for adjacent fighting rather than flank-buddy fighting. We had fun with the flavor of the scythe... made the Hunter a cloaked Death figure and the tiger more of a black puma... but I do think it makes sense to widen the weapon choices, and of course being able to wear metal armor but not metal shields is just silly. All in all though it was a fun class, and I think well worth giving up the wildshape.
|
We ran one playtest with a 5th-level Hunter, and the Hunter stole the show. She was built with 17str, 14dex, 14con, 10int, 14wis, 10cha; mithril breastplate and Tribal Scars feat for 35-ft speed; the Andoran Captain's Blade trait for Acrobatics; scythe for main weapon; a tiger companion; and the precise strike teamwork feat. With the Hunter and tiger both being fairly speedy and acrobatic, they easily got into flank with one another, and once they were there they just ripped things to shreds.
There definitely needs to be more teamwork feats to chose from... too many of them are designed for adjacent fighting rather than flank-buddy fighting. We had fun with the flavor of the scythe... made the Hunter a cloaked Death figure and the tiger more of a black puma... but I do think it makes sense to widen the weapon choices, and of course being able to wear metal armor but not metal shields is just silly. All in all though it was a fun class, and I think well worth giving up the wildshape.
I think my head just exploded from the awesomeness.
We ran one playtest with a 5th-level Hunter, and the Hunter stole the show. She was built with 17str, 14dex, 14con, 10int, 14wis, 10cha; mithril breastplate and Tribal Scars feat for 35-ft speed; the Andoran Captain's Blade trait for Acrobatics; scythe for main weapon; a tiger companion; and the precise strike teamwork feat. With the Hunter and tiger both being fairly speedy and acrobatic, they easily got into flank with one another, and once they were there they just ripped things to shreds.
There definitely needs to be more teamwork feats to chose from... too many of them are designed for adjacent fighting rather than flank-buddy fighting. We had fun with the flavor of the scythe... made the Hunter a cloaked Death figure and the tiger more of a black puma... but I do think it makes sense to widen the weapon choices, and of course being able to wear metal armor but not metal shields is just silly. All in all though it was a fun class, and I think well worth giving up the wildshape.
That sounds like a lot of fun to play! Though I agree with your suggestion to widen weapon choices. As it is now, the Hunter has nothing besides tracking from the Ranger that the Druid doesn't also give it. I think weapon proficiencies and a few Ranger spells should be thrown in to complete the class.
Also my earlier suggestion of the animal companion becoming a d10 companion still applies. Perhaps the animal companion can get a buff to intelligence as well? Perhaps to 4 or 5? I also would not be averse to companion talents, similar to rogue talents.