moan's page

No one expects the Druish Inquisition.

haha okay true that maybe it is more mechanicly itgives a more inquisitor than ranger feel, but it still don´t make me feel like I am playing a ranger, what makes the Hunter a ranger instead of a Druid archetype with some inquisitor mechanics added in the mix

Love the Ideá of a swashbuckler class, and that it gets panache is just gold.
however the description of the class makes me think finally a matrial class that makes it viable to play a small size melee class without gething punish mechanical for the choiche.

And was disapointed to see that it wasn´t really the case, gething a -4 penalty on the parry riposte thing witch is a major part of the class is awfull and the - on intemidate don´t help either with Menacing Swordplay,
think that should either be fixed (could the small races dogde away from the hit instead and use its menacing words instead of swordplay for same or very similare effects ?)

either this or add some other deeds that is for the small charathers as right now the class seems "ruined" for small races

I would love for the class to be more cha, and dex based there are so many str based matrial classes out there allready and swashbuckler simply scream Dex Cha based, maybe as sugested in a post not fare above cha based will saves, like that, a cha based luck effect like the archaelogist
bard would also seem very apropiate for this type of class imo,

but my plea is mainly make this class a suitable option as a small race
and a dex cha based class the game needs that and it seems swashbuckler
is the perfect opertunity for this we don´t need another str build figther option where you are allready (fare) behind if you choose a small race.

last whats up with the wp fitness at second lvl a whole lvl wait for something so critical for the build, you don´t really wanna wait to get it and you don´t wanna waste a feat on something you get for free at 2nd lvl you are creating a loose loose sistuation here witch is totally frustrating couldn´t that be handled in a diferent way ?

1st problem with this class as I see it is, it seems like a weaker druid
weaker spell power and no shape shifting, and the things you get in return just aren´t even close to worth it mechanical, and the flavour is meh.

2ndly. there is nothing in here that makes me think ranger at all
have you called it a mix between the druid and the inquisitor,
it would have seems so much more corect
there is no favored enemy no full bab or d10 hd no favored terrain no combat style feats and no ranger spells and even the weapon list seems more like a mix with the inquisitor.
everything that make it seems the least bit ranger like is allready given to the druid like wild empathy woodland stride,
or is an inquisitor thing as well like the ability to use bows and track, the bonus teamwork feats that can be shared, even the bab hd and spell progresion makes it look more like inquisitor than ranger.

So seriously either change the mix to druid inquisitor officially or give the class something that make people think its a druid/ranger class.

I would suggest fitting in either the combat style feats of the ranger.
(the ability to skip some prerequest feats to get your special combat style is something that make a class seem more ranger like and an ability that makes alot of people think ranger.)

or give it some access to ranger spells one way or another,
(favored terrain or enemy could work as well)
but right now the class seems 2/3 druid one 1/3 inquisitor and not a whole lot Ranger the ranger feel is totally lacking from the class sorry but nothing gives me that special ranger vibe at all.

You know You can trip with out improved trip alot of the time,
You will provoke but if they don´t have a reach weapon they can´t use there attack of oppertunity any way they same goes for disarm,so it still gives you certain advantages if used clever.
It can also make it alot easyer to get into a flank position without provoking to move there.
But ofcourse a reach weapon will give you even more if you got a high dex dosn´t mean it is useless without just play the few benefits it will offer,

not saying you should have gone with druid but, the druid actually would have had more fire spells than the sorcerer especially since the druid can cast 2nd lvl spells,
1st lvl produce flame
2nd lvl flame blade flaming sphere heat metal, and even firetrap

then you choose fire domain over animal companion and get burning hands and produce flame instead, so if you wanna play with fire I would go druid
not saying that there can not be another reason to not go druid but not gething fire spells are the wrong one

One Suggestion is that the Dragon, Could have some kind of Cult or Tribe as Worshipers, Kobolds would love building traps just an idea
but could be any monsters really or even Human(oids)
And I am sure the Dragon Would´nt mind be treated as a God especially if its worshipers was bringing it treasures and food.
Maybe some dragon disicples same color as the dragon would fit in nice here,
Puzzles are a bit more tricky but could be something as simple as a magic mouth spell on a door that gives some kind of riddle and would only open if answered correct.(just be sure there is anoter way around so it don´t ruin the entire sesion can the players not get it right)

Or you could have a floor covered with letters one letter a square having the party guess some password (a simple one could be something like Welcome or passage but anything they have a fair chance of guessing could work)steeping only on the correct letters, or something would happen, Could be anything from a monsters summons an atack the players til a silent alarm goes off some where, or the player in question is turned into stone, cursed or whatever.
The dragon could have done the puzzles, the might have been there from ancient time as some kind of test to join whatever cult or maybe they are just there because the dm decided it, just a few very quick ones without knowning anything about the group much about the adventure or anything else.

Hey is it me or have they removed the option to download the society charather sheet, most likely by mistake as It still says charather and iventorry sheet, all I can get is the inventory sheet.

moan wrote:

So it seems to me that you need to be able to cast at least 2 3rd lvl arcane spells to qualify for EK or am I putting to much into that little s. not asking to ruining any ones build, but if you only need one spell it opens up for all kinds of really early prestiges class builds, and I just might be tempted my self to try one out in the future so nice to know.

Yes, there were some recent FAQs (representing an interesting shift in design intent between the original 3.X authors and the current Pathfinder Design Team) such that SLAs count for "able to cast X" prereqs. One of the FAQs even goes so far as to say "yes, we know this allows early entry into certain PrC's". As for the plurality issue, the Design Team commented (and I can dig up the link if you like) that if they meant "two or more", they'd have used language to that effect, so you just need one qualifying SLA.

Nah I won´t demand you prove it the answer was enough thanks, was asking because i didn´t knew and therefore didn´t wanted to make a build just to get it rejected when I wanted to play it,this oppens up alot of new options what to play next :)

Hrm, what if I did an EK along these lines?

.
.
.
.
Tiefling (Oni-spawn)

STR 18 (16+2)
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 16
WIS 09 (07+2)
CHA 05 (07-2)

Take Armor of the Pit at 1st level and get a mithral chain shirt for armor. That's 18 AC out of the gate.

Second level is Wizard1, with the appropriate Divination focus. I prep mostly true strike or other non-somatic spells.

At 3rd, I take EK1. Thanks to Magical Knack keeping my CL up, I can now take Arcane Armor Training for my bonus feat. Normal feat could be, I dunno, whatever. I can now prep whichever spells I desire.

Compared to a fighter, I'm only down 1 BAB, but I also have my nifty alter self racial SLA for +2 STR. So I'm basically a fighter who has spellcasting instead of bonus feats. Seems cool.

----------------------------------
Are you sure you can take EK at lvl 3 and stay PFS legal as I read the prerequest it says you need ability to cast third lvl arcane Spells
(with an s in the end) as in more than one,
when you compare that with the prerequest for the Trickster it says mage hand and at least one arcane spell of 2nd lvl or higher.

So it seems to me that you need to be able to cast at least 2 3rd lvl arcane spells to qualify for EK or am I putting to much into that little s. not asking to ruining any ones build, but if you only need one spell it opens up for all kinds of really early prestiges class builds, and I just might be tempted my self to try one out in the future so nice to know.

thanks alot for people contributing not sure about takin a lvl as oracle it delays the abiltys you are trying to improve get abit better dc and ac
than if you stayed with dex but you get all the spells latter not sure if its really worth the 1 better dc and ac but its an interesting alternative thanks for the suggesting regardless.

About helping halfling that is an interesting observation that actually could make sense, wanted the trait for the aid ability in combat in the first place anyway, but not sure how safe it is to use as a bard, might be better as a non high skill high ac class, but not rulling it definative out yet. like the support thing option for this build.

still thinking cha and dex starting out at 14 for end up at 16 split best stats my racial + stats and should both be usefull to the bard.
wis of 10 is good enough dumping it seems like asking for trouble.
this leaves me int con and str with 10 point yet to buy for.
this is here I have the hardest deciding as its here I get to decide how useless my character gets to be in combat, together with feats ofcourse.
feeling kind of tempted to put 14 in int and con and let str stay, at 10 for a finale 8, just allmost certain I end up regretting being useless in combat, as we most likely end up using half the time fighting stuff.

Ok, that's a long post. I'll admit that I didn't read the whole thing in detail. Read some of it, then skimmed the end parts.

First piece of advice: Don't panic! There's a rule Pathfinder Society that you can rebuild your PC up until level 2, so if you want to change something after initially playing him tomorrow, you can. So it's not crucial to get everything right immediately.

The big decision you need to consider is what you're doing in combat. I think it's generally acknowledged around here that archery is the best route for a non-archetype bard wanting to deal damage, but it's not the only option. If you want to focus on debuff/control, check out this thread I started about that sort of thing. If you do go for ranged attacks, as a halfling, you can go with the sling for flavor, or stick to the traditional bardic short bow (I don't think they get long bow proficiency).

Your stat array looks good for a balanced build. If you're focused on ranged attacks, you may want to see if you can up the dex a bit more. Maybe start with 17, and boost it to 18 at level 4. You could even start with 18 if you don't mind sacrificing points from a couple of other stats. And as you said, int would be nice for skill ranks and bardic knowledge.

You could probably get away with lowering any of the other four stats. Lowering str from 12 to 10 only costs you one point of damage per shot, so it's not terrible. You can get away with 14 cha if you're mostly casting buff spells, rather than stuff with saving throws that are cha dependent. And not being on the front line, you can get away with a 12 con instead of 14, though more HP is never a bad thing. Wisdom is generally considered the dump stat for bards, but I can understand if you don't want to go below 10.

But don't feel like you have to make any of these changes. Like I said, your array looks pretty good for a balanced build.

It looks like you've got a good handle on the feats you need if you go for...

thanks for the reply your link however just go to the overview message board. but found tread anyway having a look,

I know that it is a populare opinion that bard only needs 14cha
normally I would agree, I did higher mostly because I could get a high
stat for cheap also there are some spells that benefit from a good save dc, putting anything higher than 15 are kind of exspensive, paying more than 2 point pr stat increase are steep doubt I would ever go over 16 before racial unless I got a seriously one ability build, and even then not sure, but considering lowering str to get int and maybe if i go range dex higher, wis I am not comfortable putting bellow 10 unless I can spend a feat on iron will most likely got other things to spend feats on, might consider dropping con, but only if it seems crucial to get a build to work or if it was a drop to 13 to raise int 2 point and then raise con at 4 kind of thing, like the hit points and fortitude are my weak save. but yea I could probally get by with 12.

now the real chalenge is to figure out combat mode an if range to decide on what not to take ( to many options) not sure what is best (to avoid) anyway will read the debuff bard tread now and see if it inspires me to make a combat build there are not or only partial range if not I guess its not all bad range have after all a very good rep so probally decent enough

might just go with helpfull as i like it flavour wise and if I don´t get to use it I can allways rebuild it away,

Warning this ended up being so long no one might ever get trough it (hope not :)

Playing a Halfling Bard, in society in less than 18 hours and have not made the Character yet. (typical me by the way)
I could really need some help on making decisions here got way to many things I would like to pick if I go archery build and to few ideas as what to do if I don´t.

Here is some of my thoughts so fare, want to build a character, based on the haflings strengths stat wise rather than trying to force the stats to much around, so relative highish dex and cha,and no supper str witch made me think that a archery build might be the only (good) option for when not casting spells,would love to use all my feat on
stuff like halfling luck well prepared and other fun halfling fluff feats or even spell ability feats,or some support or control stuff, just not sure really if it is, an option if you still want to have a playable toon.

"Afraid" I might end up having only worthless things to contribute with in combat, witch is a big part of the game after all.

what would be my best option as a bard with dex and cha as the best stats

also as I am in society it would be great to be some kind versatile, as you never know what your group consist off (realizing I will if realistic never be a supper front line combatant)
but of course don´t wanna spread myself to thin either, don´t need to be supper optimized but useless is no fun either, having played a bard (or maybe once in third) since 2nd edition (kind of new to Pf and mostly played Dm in 3rd)
I see first and forth most the Bard as a support character and a substitute (being able to fill in if another class is missing)
and want the build to if durable to reflect that.

for books that can be used to build: CRB, APG Halflings of Golarion
UC, (and the core assumption for Pfs but don´t got the field guide (yet))

Okay so the build thinking Vanilla Bard works best / is what I want
Inspire Competence is to cool to give up unless you got something very specific in mind, also like my knowledge check bonus abilitys alot
and versatile performance is nice to have, the rest is imo so so but overall i think vanilla bard seems nice, about 90 % certain I will go that way.

abilitys thinking some thing like (20 point buy)

str 12 (14-2)

dex 16 (14+2)

con 14

int 10

wis 10

cha 16 (14+2)

consideration am I offering to much on str/is my int to low.
should I offer a point in either con or str to raise int to 12 (or maybe offer 2 point in wis not sure about that one thou as missing will saves kind of sucks.) and then raise str or con at lvl 4 witch is cheaper than to raise my int latter.

whole other option would be to don´t offer anything in str at all save 5 point to be put in other abiltys raise int to 12 would still be one of the things I would like to do here, and then simply use a x-bow at range and accept that I suck in melee (and are no damage dealer)
or maybe someone have a better idea if I o low str.

the hard one feats and traits ( gets 2 traits in pfs )
considering following traits mainly if I go the archer/slinger way
kind of blank on what to do as to be at least some what use full
combat wise if I don´t. but would love some suggestions if anyone thinks it is durable playing on my highish cha could be probally alot more fun than (just) I shoot him yeah I hit next round I shoot again and so on
but not really sure how as I think I got to few spells to make it happen. so this is mainly based on what I might choose if I go range bard

weapon heritage: (is it called that can´t seem to find it ) anyway the trait that lets you pick a material weapon and you get it free and the profiency in it
(at least what it is doing in society after the erata)
would than get either the halfling sling staff ( material for halflings)
or maybe the longbow)
again that comes down to combat style when not casting spells and what feat(s) I end up taking (wanting to take latter on )
more on that in the choosing a weapon section.

helpful halfling +4 while using the help another action instead of +2
simply love this trait but not sure if it will come into its right if used on a character that most of the time would be better served to stay out of melee (no aid another in combat if at range)
but might still be good to have for versatile able to do something use full in close combat

vagabond child: class skill in and + 1 on disable device(+4 all in all) this one would be beyond nice when encountering locks and traps, again I like a lot to be able to fill in and even thou I can´t remove magical traps (that way)
this can help alot to partially fill in for a rogue ability

other ones Maestro of the Society (can´t find this one either where did all the traits go :( ^^ )
or one of the many ones giving + on ini might be worth considering (but) all ready got to many traits (to choose from)

Feats here I would like to plain ahead and have a general idea with one to choose Pfs end at lvl 12 so leaves me with 6 feats (whole career)
leaning strongly towards making my character ranged for combat option

following feats are on my list, but not sure witch to pick or in what order.again game ending at lvl 12 might make feat that are "only" worth it at low lvl more value able as it might quick be around half your career,

pbs: pretty much a request for every range feat

precise shoot: (is this one worth it unless I also get rapid shoot or choose a weapon that need a move action to load, not getting a second attack before lvl 8 maybe a lvl 9 feat in that case or lvl 7 if i go bow an want many shoot at 9)(again pfs ends at lvl 12)

rapid shoot: with so many (range) feat to choose from, is feats that give you a minus to hit worth it with a 3/4 bab one more attack of course mean massive dam increase but if you don´t hit anyways well ....

deadly aim: pretty much same considerations as with rapid.

rapid reload: this is only interesting if I go with a x-bow but then I guess it might be nice enough.

arcane strike: this at 1st glance seems like a must +1 to dam both melee and range, count as magic it scales nice and no minus to hit
but the swift action needed is a minus (one of my favorite spells being saving finale and there are some other nice once that feed upon your swift action up to) still might be to nice to pass up

Large target: (halflings of Golarion) + 1 dam with all kinds of slings pr size category target are larger than you.
so +1 m +2 l and so forth seems pretty nice to me if I go sling or staff sling.

many shoots: this ones seems like a most have if I go bow but can not take it before 9 (bab +6 request)

focus shoot: (apg) int to precision dam within 30 feet with x-bow or bow
could then be a real option to not invest in str at all, 8 str 14 int in build would give loads of bonus skill wise and actually more + dam wise on range than 12 str and 10 int
problem is needs both pbs and precise first and is says as a standard attack you can, .... witch I guess mean no full attacks and + to int
(again pfs seems so better take things litteraly )
also how much stuff are immune to precision dam and criticals witch both negate the dam bonus

weapon focus +1 to hit all ways nice if I go staff sling its even both on range and close. hitting are all ways better than not
(but are just so many feat to choose from)

imp ini this is not a must have by any means but very nice to go early when you buff.

spell focus and maybe even extra perform or skill focus perform could also be fare out contenders,well prepared could be fun and have its use to (probally more flavour full than use full ) and there are ton of defensive feats there would be gold to have mainly better cmd and saves.

(not sure I like lingering perform because you are not performing most of the time using it and therefor no saving finale or similare spells)
why are there so many feats to choose from my head hurts :)

range are so feat needy its crazy wondering at this point if its even worth it.

someone please help me choose some feats and the correct order to choose theme in I am going crazy here.

okay thoughts on weapon

sling: this one I all ready knows with war slinger alternate race abilty
I can reload for free, and I can all ways have a str bonus on it should it go up an down also can use large target feat with this one
and use buckler as it fire one hand.
minus won´t get many shoot but that is "only" useable so late that it might not be a deal breaker.

staff sling: will cost a trait witch is a minus but 1d6 + all ways str is as good as it get small size, also got free treat as my close weapon
(club 1d4 ) is part of the weapon, weapon focus c#&~ both range and close might be a nice versatile bonus, again one hand fire = buckler bonus, minuses many shoot are out and it will allways be a move action to load
(going total raw here and don´t assume that war slinger works with staff slings as this is pfs and I will need so many dms to agree with that is not worth it) this means only a 5 feeet step to get into position and no more than 1 attack pr round, but since none of this will matter before 8lvl anyway (by then I could i theory cast haste and attack twice anyway.) as long as i stay away from rapid shoot

then with rapid shoot given minus to attack and 8 lvl + being a very small portion of my career and haste option this might be a good option.

short bow: not much to say here 1d4 dam instead of 1d3 sling but can´t use large target feat and need composite to do str dam don´t have the flexibility of the sling and + str dam in case of + or minus to str score. + size got profiency free free action to load and can get many shoot at lvl 9

longbow: same as short only cost trait for more dam (not even sure if its worth it)

x-bow light: this one would be an option if I dropped str to 10 or even 8, also focus shoot feat int to precision dam within 30 feet could then be a real option 8 str 14 int in build would give loads of bonus skill wise and actually more + dam wise on range than 12 str and 10 int
problem is needs both pbs and precise first and is says as a standard attack you can witch I guess mean no full attacks and + to int also so much stuff are immune to precision dam and criticals
minus will need to take rapid reload if I want more than one attack pr round, but might be a okay option, after all given some of the considerations given under sling staff.

last option is ofcourse not to go range at all, or not focus so heavy on it this would likely ending up in me picking up a sling for back up, but even as I would in some ways love to drop range focus (hate it be so feat demanding) I think I got to few spells to build for those and a melee build seems very suboptimal
for my halfling bard,
having read just about every tread I could find on bard and both bard guides ( most likely to many times)
I would love to build a control (de)buff support character bard
or someone who toke equally advanced on his dex and cha
would be even better
I am just kind of "afraid" I will end up with a useless toon
and not really sure how to make suchs a build viable
is it posible to make a cha, dex combo bard decent
or will I simply spread my build to thin if I try be anything other than the clasic archer build when not having any great str.

(treants suggestions for the control build relied on high str and intimidate, witch don´t really play into my strengths also dazling display is at earliest at 5th lvl )
not even sure if this would work with high str and intimidate so not sure about trying it without either,

and before anyone ask yeah I am dead set on playing Halfling and you are most likely not convincing me to play another class either :)

Please share any advice would be much apreciated
(full or all most full build suggestions even more so)
think I have confused my self to the point where I having a hard time deciding anything :)