Hey all,
I had a character for an upcoming campaign (in two days) that was melee oriented, but when I found out the rest of the party was too, I now want to help full a different niche... but still want to do some melee.
So I decided to bring to life my desire of playing a Jedi/Sith in PF. I need help with a few things. But first, some goals for the character and my plan(s) to accomplish them, if any:
1. Jumping high
-I was going to max out acrobatics, have a high DEX, and get acrobatics as a class skill.
2. Be decent-to-good in melee
- I was gonna take some levels in a class that can do melee. This conflicts with the above goal in a way I'll get to below.
3. Be able to do some magic (reflavored as the Force, of course)
- I was going to take levels in wizard or sorcerer (probably sorcerer, as I prefer those and Jedi/Sith have a more limited amount of powers than is have as a wizard).
4. Somehow mix 2 and 3
- I was simply going to take levels in Eldritch Knight.
Now, for the problems with each...
1 And 2: I'm not sure what class that can do melee (preferably full BAB) fits the theme well AND also gives acrobatics as a class skill. Also, perhaps, a higher bae speed than simply 30 ft might be good so I can jump more than 30 ft.
3: I'm not sure which would be better, sorcerer or wizard. Which bloodline (I'm thinking arcane for the bonded object, a sword) or school (probably enchantment for Jedi/Sith mind tricks) would be best?
4. Am I going about this all wrong? Would kensai magus be best?
Overall, those are the most specific problems. I want to be DEX based, so I was thinking goblin (the RPing problems shouldn't be prevelant in this campaign) for the +4 DEX. And I l can be YODA!!! :D
I'm thinking a light saber could be a brilliant energy weapon. What spells would fit best? Telekinesis definitely.
I'm just looking for advice on... Pretty much everything, I guess.
Thanks in advance,
I Hate Nickelback
Ranger, Sorceror Dragon Disciple. In that order.
Ranger 1-4, Sorc 5, DD the next few.
Kensai magus seems like the best bet to cover everything you want. Go, scimitar dervish.
If you really want a Jedi use Dreamscarred Press and go Psychic Warrior. It is pretty much a Jedi right out of the box.
I have a friend who is using a goblin dex based Kensai Magus with two levels of Master of Many Styles Monk for flavor and for early crane wing. He's practically Yoda.
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I second Kensai Magus. It gives you a lot of what I would call Jedi.
-Spell Casting
-Good In Melee
-Ability to Reach High Places(Via Dex is you're a Dexer, spells like Bladed Dash and Force Hook Charge if you're not).
Of course I'd just Convert the Saga Jedi to PF tho if the DM allowed it if that's what you're looking for.
Have you considered a Qinggong monk? It has some interesting ki powers that could pass for the Force, and you could use a monk weapon instead of just unarmed strikes. :/
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
and how exactly are you fitting this character into the setting?
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LazarX wrote: and how exactly are you fitting this character into the setting? Unless you're the DM, or to a lesser extent, another player at his table... that is none of your business. And even if it were, it is off topic.
LazarX wrote: and how exactly are you fitting this character into the setting? its a fantasy world..look at my fantasy character fit right in...fantastically
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Hard to believe anyone would favorite karossii's unhelpful snark. I'm sure LazarX's post was genuine curiousity, and that he was looking for more data to inform his suggestions to the OP.
On topic, Magus looks good if you;re limited to Paizo material. Mike Franke has a great idea if Dreamscarred Press material is allowed. I've played with a couple guys whose PCs were Psychic Warriors and they were huge fun and effective too.
how about a Musetouched Aasimar (for +2 dex/cha), with the Scion of Humanity alternate?
you could take Racial Heritage [tengu] and take the Shigenjo archetype for a metal oracle... dip 2-4 levels of ninja for extra ki options and improved jumping stuff.
therealthom wrote: Hard to believe anyone would favorite karossii's unhelpful snark. I'm sure LazarX's post was genuine curiousity, and that he was looking for more data to inform his suggestions to the OP.
On topic, Magus looks good if you;re limited to Paizo material. Mike Franke has a great idea if Dreamscarred Press material is allowed. I've played with a couple guys whose PCs were Psychic Warriors and they were huge fun and effective too.
Well I personally accidentally favorite posts all the time trying to hit the reply button on my phone.
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therealthom wrote: Hard to believe anyone would favorite karossii's unhelpful snark. I'm sure LazarX's post was genuine curiousity, and that he was looking for more data to inform his suggestions to the OP.
On topic, Magus looks good if you;re limited to Paizo material. Mike Franke has a great idea if Dreamscarred Press material is allowed. I've played with a couple guys whose PCs were Psychic Warriors and they were huge fun and effective too.
I admit I had not considered that as a potential reason for the question (and given the phrasing, I sincerely doubt that WAS the intent) - but if it was, I would apologize.
On these and many other forums, one all too often sees people judging others' choices because it does not meet with their mental vision of how a game should be played. That is more of what his comment sounded like was happening. And my reply to that was not 'snark' as you put it, but indignation for the OP. If my assumption is correct and that was the intent of the question, then LazarX had no right to ask unless he were the DM or a player, as I stated, and my post was fully appropriate and justified. And in that case, your snark would be baseless and inappropriate.
Very helpful suggestions, thank you. My problem with a DEX based magus in this particular build is that I want a light sabre. Not a light scimitar. They're very different looking blades.
So no dervish here.
That leaves a normal DEX build, but that may be more feats than a magus can handle. Plus, a magus is build around spell strike. Jedi/Sith don't really do that. They either do a force thing or swing their LS. Never at the same time, really.
So unless eldritch knight would completely fail, if prefer that.
And absolutely no dragon disciple. I'm hard to think of any Jedi who can breathe fire, fly, and turn into a dragon. Doesn't fit the theme IMO.
Dawnflower Dervish, or Kensai Magus.
karossii wrote: therealthom wrote: Hard to believe anyone would favorite karossii's unhelpful snark. I'm sure LazarX's post was genuine curiousity, and that he was looking for more data to inform his suggestions to the OP.
On topic, Magus looks good if you;re limited to Paizo material. Mike Franke has a great idea if Dreamscarred Press material is allowed. I've played with a couple guys whose PCs were Psychic Warriors and they were huge fun and effective too.
I admit I had not considered that as a potential reason for the question (and given the phrasing, I sincerely doubt that WAS the intent) - but if it was, I would apologize.
On these and many other forums, one all too often sees people judging others' choices because it does not meet with their mental vision of how a game should be played. That is more of what his comment sounded like was happening. And my reply to that was not 'snark' as you put it, but indignation for the OP. If my assumption is correct and that was the intent of the question, then LazarX had no right to ask unless he were the DM or a player, as I stated, and my post was fully appropriate and justified. And in that case, your snark would be baseless and inappropriate. As the OP, I'm going to put a stop to this argument so it doesn't derail my thread.
LazarX: I thought it was kinda irrelevant for you to have asked that, but by no means was a annoyed or otherwise unhappy that you posted it. I'm just a player, and it fits because he's not REALLY a Jedi, just his stats are based of one. He's just another mage-knight.
Karossii: When you see an irrelevant comment, don't blow it up into an argument, but thanks for trying to keep the thread on topic.
Boom, peacekeeper over hee-a!
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karossii wrote: ...
On these and many other forums, one all too often sees people judging others' choices because it does not meet with their mental vision of how a game should be played. That is more of what his comment sounded like was happening. And my reply to that was not 'snark' as you put it, but indignation for the OP. If my assumption is correct and that was the intent of the question, then LazarX had no right to ask unless he were the DM or a player, as I stated, and my post was fully appropriate and justified. And in that case, your snark would be baseless and inappropriate.
Well played, sir. Please accept my own apology for misjudging your post.
In my defense, I've been reading LazarX on these boards for a long time. He can be sharp-tongued at times, but knows the game and is often very helpful.
I believe your jump distance is based off strength, going off memory here.
Edit: nevermind. I'm thinking of climb
I would highly suggest a monk. High base speed, doesn't wear armor, ki pool that fuels very "force" like effects (+20 to jump comes to mind), still a decent melee, and tends to have high wisdom. As for a lightsaber, just reskin your local temple sword and give it brilliant energy at first chance. If nothing else chose a magic sword that glows naturally. If it's homebrew, you might even be able to get a magic item crafted that is a sword hilt and lets you cast flame blade at will, reskinned to look like a bastard sword of course.
I've made some sith NPCs for a game before, and it mostly looked like taking a monk, giving it a brilliant energy weapon, and replacing certain class features with ki powers that mimic suffocate and chain lightning. Game was high level at this point, so those specific spells probably won't do, but have a look at some of the qinggong archetype ability swaps.
I would agree that Jedi have almost always been best created as some monk variant, in almost every fantasy system I have played in.
In Pathfinder, I would also agree that qinggong would be the best archetype. If you wanted a level or two of magus added onto it, you could pull that off; but you would be ridiculously MAD then. Perhaps adding Sensei in the mix, to use Wisdom for attack and damage (as well as AC) would help that; you could focus on WIS and INT, and have mediocre physical stats. That would seem to suit a jedi well.
I would think a quarterstaff, wielded as a double weapon, could easily fit the light saber feel (instead of a double bladed sword). Brilliant Energy, Flaming, Shocking, etc. could be added to either end as desired. And flurrying with a quarterstaff, you can choose to use one end for all attacks, or spread it over both ends as you like. Of course, this wouldn't mesh with Magus - for that you would need a one-handed monk weapon; one-handed to fit with magus and monk to fly with flurry.
A nine section whip could work well for that - it *IS* a one-handed monk weapon, but it can be wielded as if it is either a one- or a two- handed weapon; thus with some free action grip change shenanigans to work in any casting needed, you could two-hand it for both spell combat and spell strike.
Now I am on the cusp of a build I might want to play, lol. I will toy with the idea for myself; if it intrigues you I can post whatever I come up with later...
That sounds very cool indeed, karossii. Even if the OP doesn't want to see it, I would.
I would actually avoid a full Monk build.
This "Jedi" should not be trailing behind everyone else, that far.
Monk never even occurred to me, it looks like it'd fit really well. However, aren't weapon using monks suboptimal in the extreme?
Maybe an MoMS dip?
Sohei Monk 2/Empyreal Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 10/Sorcerer +2
Sohei give proficiency with all Martial Weapons, Wis to AC, bonus feats, "prescience" by always acting in surprise round, evasion
Empyreal bloodline gives spellcasting off Wis
BAB 15, CL 17 at 20th level
Jump- monk class skill and Jump spell
Fight- BAB is not impressive, but you can self buff, reduced ability score dependence means you should be able to afford better Str
Spell- pretty good at it
Also, it sort of depends on your choice of a Light/Dark Side flavor.
Well, one major flaw in my theoretical build - I always forget Sensei cannot flurry. It isn't necessarily a deal breaker for the whole build, but the concept I was building upon was a wis/int based flurrying / spell combat+striking combatant. He would always get the extra attack, whether it was delivering a spell, or as part of a flurry. That aspect won't work.
That said, I did see some interesting crossovers between some archetypes. A Hexcrafter/Staff Magus would mix well with a Quiggong Monk to make a very Jedi like character. Start out as a magus, get weapon specialization at first level, then build up as you would like; either continue as magus until you get a good hex or two, then switch, or move straight into monk for earlier access to the quiggong ki powers. As every monk archetype can be blended with quiggong, I would suggest maybe going for weapon adept if you want the martial focus; or sensei if you want a more Jedi Consular feel (gain some bardic like abilities to enhance your companions with a lecture, get that potentially huge benefit of WIS to attack and damage instead of STR or DEX - when you also get WIS to AC, it is nice to reduce MAD, and eventually the ability to grant your allies some of your monk powers)... I would say go to 4th or 7th as a magus, and the rest in monk.
I think it all depends where your primary Jedi love is founded. The old films? The old comix? Or the newer stuff where acrobatics is less force jumps and like amazing acrobatics. And also in the old stuff great masters dermed more like full casters than Fighters with magic.
But since pathfinder is not starwars you need to decide what part of the feel you want to keep.
If it is the superiority to normal mortals?
Go wizard.
If it is the jumping stuff?
Go monk!
If it is the supernatural warrior?
I think magus is your best bet.
Good luck and dont forget to tell us how it goes:)
I Hate Nickelback wrote: Monk never even occurred to me, it looks like it'd fit really well. However, aren't weapon using monks suboptimal in the extreme? They are actually the best two-weapon fighters in the game, without the need to have two weapons. All the TWF feats for free, Full BAB when flurrying. And you can even two-hand your weapon for the full Power Attack-Bonus.
When closing in and they only have a single attack, they can add nice things to their attack like Stunning Fist or Quivering Palm (late in the game but very-Jedi-like) or something similar.
The Wanderer Archetype gets "Wanderer's Wisdom" at 7th Level which functions exactly like inspire Courage, but only for one person (preferably yourself).
Blade of the Sword Saint is a nice magic weapon for later. Start with a temple sword. It is the same as normal sword, just better (trip and monk)so I see no reason, why it could not look like a normal sword without the trip property. Plus Continual Flame (heightend if possible to cancel deeper darkness) cast on it for the light sabre feel.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I Hate Nickelback wrote: LazarX: I thought it was kinda irrelevant for you to have asked that, but by no means was a annoyed or otherwise unhappy that you posted it. I'm just a player, and it fits because he's not REALLY a Jedi, just his stats are based of one. He's just another mage-knight. The player posted his concept on an open board asking for assistance and commentary. That makes it pretty open to me. He could have taken the opportunity to put himself above the rabble of idiots who try to justify bringing literal characters from another universe through the hackneyed portal or wrecked starship device. If you post on an open forum than ANYONE has the right to comment or make a question on your post. If you can't stand that thought, than go to a private channel.
I gave him an opportunity to explain his concept of the character beyond being a bundle of rules mechanics. I asked my question without a hint of prejudgement.6 Instead he chose the passive-aggressive posture of someone who had a hackneyed concept and was choosing bluster as a response.
LazarX wrote: I Hate Nickelback wrote: LazarX: I thought it was kinda irrelevant for you to have asked that, but by no means was a annoyed or otherwise unhappy that you posted it. I'm just a player, and it fits because he's not REALLY a Jedi, just his stats are based of one. He's just another mage-knight. The player posted his concept on an open board asking for assistance and commentary. That makes it pretty open to me. He could have taken the opportunity to put himself above the rabble of idiots who try to justify bringing literal characters from another universe through the hackneyed portal or wrecked starship device. If you post on an open forum than ANYONE has the right to comment or make a question on your post. If you can't stand that thought, than go to a private channel.
I gave him an opportunity to explain his concept of the character beyond being a bundle of rules mechanics. I asked my question without a hint of prejudgement.6 Instead he chose the passive-aggressive posture of someone who had a hackneyed concept and was choosing bluster as a response. The post you quoted was 'the player' in question, but after replying to his post you speak about him in third person. Seems a bit odd, if somewhat irrelevant (except maybe revealing your tone in general).
Next, this is a somewhat open board, you are correct. It is still considered appropriate to a) stick to a topic at hand and not derail it (which I recognize I am failing to do at the moment, and is rather frequently done as well; so not a huge offense), b) be polite (which, based on the apparent tone of your initial post, you weren't really), and c) be constructive (again, you were not being constructive; which you confirmed in this response).
Also, you state he was asking for 'assistance and commentary'. I just reread his initial post. Assistance, yes. Commentary was not requested or explicitly invited. You presumed as such, perhaps, but it isn't there.
The fact that you feel the OP needed to "explain his concept beyond a bundle of rules mechanics" and "put himself above the rabble of idiots..." further reveals your intent in the initial post, which is destructive and not constructive; and not in line with the spirit of the terms of service of this semi-public forum.
And there was a hint of prejudgement in your query, which I and others picked up on, and which you have confirmed in this response. If there was no prejudgement, there would have been no comparison to the aforementioned rabble, and no perceived (even if wrongly so) need to explain the concept.
Had you truly been interested in the concept, in general, and/or if you had desired to know more about it to help aid the OP in his build, you could have phrased the initial query much less confrontational - "...and how exactly..." is always a confrontational phrase, and typically one spoken from a (perceived) position of authority to a (perceived) inferior. Very typical of bullying behavior.
And to fall back to a defense of "this is an open forum - if you don't like it go away" is an even meaner (as in "base, pathetic", as well as in "unkind") response. Even more typical of a bully.
And all of which would violate the golden rule of the paizo boards - "Don't be a jerk"
So... you might want to try being less of a jerk in the future, perhaps.
LazarX wrote: I Hate Nickelback wrote: LazarX: I thought it was kinda irrelevant for you to have asked that, but by no means was a annoyed or otherwise unhappy that you posted it. I'm just a player, and it fits because he's not REALLY a Jedi, just his stats are based of one. He's just another mage-knight. The player posted his concept on an open board asking for assistance and commentary. That makes it pretty open to me. He could have taken the opportunity to put himself above the rabble of idiots who try to justify bringing literal characters from another universe through the hackneyed portal or wrecked starship device. If you post on an open forum than ANYONE has the right to comment or make a question on your post. If you can't stand that thought, than go to a private channel.
I gave him an opportunity to explain his concept of the character beyond being a bundle of rules mechanics. I asked my question without a hint of prejudgement.6 Instead he chose the passive-aggressive posture of someone who had a hackneyed concept and was choosing bluster as a response. I'm sorry, what? You understand that post you replied to was from the OP (me) and explained how I'm fitting my character in.
I'm just confused now, though. Your post was written as if to a person criticizing my character idea.
And your post was irrelevant because I asked not how to incorporate my character into any campaign setting.
Thank you and goodbye.
Lots of sniping in this thread, I see :)
I´d say non-good and leave it at that. I admit freely I am not that much of a SW expanded universe buff, but their code can probably be interpreted in many ways and they had no shortage of sects and beliefs. Their vision of the force is somewhat selfish, but the degrees and details can often make a difference in alignment debates.
I still think psychic warriors are the better option, tbh, but it´s your call. A lot of DMs still aren´t keen on psionics due to stories they´ve heard about how it did (not) work 15 years ago. Some of the archetypes (especially the monk-like meditant) can be quite fitting, and they have some very nice paths. The soulknife isn´t bad if you want to materialize a magical (oops, sorry, incredibly high tech so it looks like magic) blade either. A question though - if you are that keen on a lightsaber, how do you plan on interpreting it mechanically? Most sane DMs won´t give you brilliant energy weapons on single-digit levels.
In the Star Wars universe the earliest Jedi (possibly before they were even called Jedi)used swords rather than lightsabers, which they would imbue with the power of the Force.
a qinggong monk with a Ki Focus weapon would fit this bill I think.
Appropriate Powers might be:
Augury
High Jump
Feather Step
Message
Share Memory
Sonic Thrust
You could also add the Trifler trait (3/day Prestidigitation) for lots of weird jedi powers likes minor telekinesis.
Bit more info about proto-jedi:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Wars
Either Quigong monk with flameblade added to ki powers.
OR
Inquisitor
Works really well - create a new domain (force domain) that gets spells that fit and flame blade (or even a force blade 3+chr x per day)
Flame Blade with judgements and bane will do some real damage - flame blade is amazing with dazing spell. Can also metamagic - (empower, maximise, ectoplasmic, elemental).
If you have the trait that lowers metamagic for the spell even better.
Inquisitors have skills, are great at sense motive and such skills, with snake style have an amazing AC, detect all alignments, track, discern lies, judgement to fast heal, be immune etc etc
A qinggong/inquisitor does sound good, and very synergistic.
Samsaran Kensai Magus, with the Mystic Past Life alternate racial trait.
Add Flame Blade.
I'm gearing more towards the dark side (surprise surprise).
Monk seems not magic/force powered enough (remember, it'd also be nice to fill the arcane caster niche in the party), but eldritch knight might be TOO magical for this. Also, magus doesn't really have the utility spells needed to fill the arcane caster niche, so I'm not liking that.
Overall, I think a DEX-based (but not dervish) EK might be best for me. I can live with too much magic (and nobody ever said there couldn't be a force fire as well as force lightning), so how could be build that?
Sorcerer or wizard, first of all?
I´d go with sorcerer thematically, as preparing your powers every day seems more than a bit weird for a jedi/sith. Vancian casting has a strong ritualistic bend imo - spontaneous casting or psionics seems a better fit. Mind you, spontaneous casters already are behind on spell level progression, multiclassing really makes it worse.
Qinggong monks can have a fair few powers, I guess, and the Inquisitor fits monks okay, especially with a few tricks (I love snake style with stern gaze, especially on a half elf for the skill focus :) ). Don´t expect to be a magical or physical powerhouse, but you can do some things. They are a bit meh on utility, though. There doesn´t HAVE to be an arcane or divine caster: it is more about what areas of magic you want to cover. Witches may be arcane, for example, but they can cover some roles normally reserved for clerics (i.e. healing).
BTW, if you do go for an EK with dexterity, dervish dance or agile weapons are very good. If you are going to be a gish, you should have ways do deal damage.
The psionics and inquisitor ideas seem like good ideas... kinda sad nickelback asked for advice when it sounds like their heart is set on doing the EK thing already.
That said: even if you're stuck on the arcane magic for some reason, why wouldnt magus work? flavor is the most malleable thing ever. would your dm really have a problem with you flavoring spell flurry as "make a ton of crazy weapon attacks and then force lightning a single target", so long as it didnt change mechanics at all? I really don't see jedi as full blown arcane casters...
There's the Jedi don't prep their powers everyday thing.
Darkside?
Well, Samsaran Antipaladin, with the Mystic Past Life alternate racial trait.
Just straight inquisitor woks. What are jedi if not travelling inquisitors of the dark/light (empire/republic).
As far as both flavor and effectivness go, I second an aasimar sohei monk 1/ empyreal sorcerer 1/ eldritch knight x. Good combat ability plus able to have a decent unarmored AC. Concetrate on buffs and things like mage hand, telekinesis, forceful impact, force hook charge, etc. Barring that, a kensai magus is a runner up.
If jump is your number one priority, the best low level jumper in the game must be a Ninja 2 with the Acrobatic Master trick. Standing jumps at running jump DCs, then +20 Acrobatics with a swift action!
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