She says that story is false.... rather often to her round eyed childrenHeres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
Well, did he succeed?
Her holy scriptures probably claim it was every day, especially twice on Sunday, given her nature. At least after he was a god.
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It isn't canon, but here's my own wrinkle on what exactly went down: Well it seemed like a good idea at the time... - A Story
Huh. I don't know how my quote boxes got messed up there. Sorry, guys. It's too late to fix that now.
Great story, Todd! :)
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It isn't canon, but here's my own wrinkle on what exactly went down: Well it seemed like a good idea at the time... - A Story
The events regarding Cayden aren't canon, but the bar is, and it's shamelessly and adoringly taken straight from James Sutter's novel Death's Heretic. And Nisha (and the bit about her blinding jumping into a Well of Many Worlds) shows up in 'Classic Treasures Revisited'.
Its certainly a fun story, and one of the more interesting.
I must admit that as a rule I tend to use HARNs religions in preference to much of the Golarion pantheon ; i feel the pathfinder deities to be very "middle of the road" /bland ... (Particularly the Good aligned deities...) ....But then thats understandable as pathfinder has to appeal to a broad community of players.
The exceptions to the diety blah are , imo , are Lamashtu , (which I think the team did great work with), Cayden (gotta love that story), and Rovagug . And a certain mage masquerading as a god (excellent idea folks).
Dont get me wrong, I think the Paizo team produce terrific stuff, but with these exceptions the pantheon strikes me as mainly uninspiring....serviceable, yes, but inspiring, no.....which is one of the reasons I like the Cayden story...just a little different, and something you can adventures off of.
(For those who may be interested, in my game, the demoness Lamashtu stole her beast portfolio off of Ilvir the brooder, and then corrupted the 7 runelords; her worship within their empires then elevated her to goddess status. Not quite canon, but it works VERY well for the RotR adventure path.)
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Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
The two myths combine pretty easily.
One night in a local bar the topic of drunk talk turns to goddesses
"Calistria...I'd totally tap that."
"Dude you'd never get near her"
"Totally would."
"no way you'd like have to be a god or something"
"Pft... I could do that."
"Bull S$#@"
"I could so. Do the whole Starstone thing"
"Bet you 5 gold you never make it past the front door"
"You're on"
grabs a spare keg on the way out and heads for the dungeon.I don't know about Calistria, but there is a rumor of Cayden having a son with Desna
Ack! I love the post, but as this is the second time I've seen this lately, I'd really rather you guys link to the pathfinder wiki version in stead (it's just www.pathfinderwiki.com).
I mean no disrespect to whomever deals with (dealt with*?) Golaripedia, but my antiviruses and firewalls occasionally go crazy over there, and whether or not they do, with all the advertisements Golaripedia has, my computer gets grumpy at me and then I get various apps crashing and all that.
* I'm not entirely sure if Golaripedia is actively updated anymore. It may be. As I said before, I'm not attempting any sort of disrespect to those who attend the place, however when I used to look at both regularly as my Golarion source, it proved less informative and less responsive to updates and information than the Pathfinderwiki. At one point, I actually thought it was dead for a while. Anyway, let me know if I'm incorrect.
The problem is that the wikia people have strong google-fu.
pathfinderwiki is updated and maintained mostly by the people who originally worked on the golaripedia.
There was a post many moons ago about why they didn't scuttle the old site when they jumped ship. I think it's a shame though: it would avoid confusion if the pathfinderwiki was the site and wikia's pull didn't keep an out-of-date site atop google searches.
Basically:
pathfinder wikia = last updated in 2010
pathfinderwiki = updated today and every day
The problem is that the wikia people have strong google-fu.
pathfinderwiki is updated and maintained mostly by the people who originally worked on the golaripedia.
There was a post many moons ago about why they didn't scuttle the old site when they jumped ship. I think it's a shame though: it would avoid confusion if the pathfinderwiki was the site and wikia's pull didn't keep an out-of-date site atop google searches.
Basically:
pathfinder wikia = last updated in 2010
pathfinderwiki = updated today and every day
Okay, yeah. That was what I thought. Thanks!
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I like the Golarion deities a lot. Nethys is way cooler than Mystra Sue and Boring Boccob. ("Hai guzy, let's kill her again, they'll never expect it a 4th time!") Iomedae is like Tyr and the Red Knight mixed together with a splash of Paragon FemShep. Irori monked so hard that he don't need your stinking test. Norgober passed the test by deleting System32 apparently and he doesn't want anybody looking into it too closely. Shelyn is the first goddess to wear more than a size 0 in modern fantasy in years. Lamashtu and Calistria are {REDACTED} just about everything on the planet with a CON score between the two of them. And it's good to have a sun deity that isn't a total wuss.
The only one that bores me is Pharasma really... she's kinda just there. But then, Jergal, Kelemvor and Wee Jaas had the same problem so maybe I just find the psychopomp deities uninteresting in general.
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Okay, yeah. That was what I thought. Thanks!The problem is that the wikia people have strong google-fu.
pathfinderwiki is updated and maintained mostly by the people who originally worked on the golaripedia.
There was a post many moons ago about why they didn't scuttle the old site when they jumped ship. I think it's a shame though: it would avoid confusion if the pathfinderwiki was the site and wikia's pull didn't keep an out-of-date site atop google searches.
Basically:
pathfinder wikia = last updated in 2010
pathfinderwiki = updated today and every day
Basicly, we tried and wikia refused to take it down, and ban any users who have deleted X number of pages, and revert those pages back into existence... it was down to under 300 articles about 4 months ago.
Basicly, we tried and wikia refused to take it down, and ban any users who have deleted X number of pages, and revert those pages back into existence... it was down to under 300 articles about 4 months ago.Okay, yeah. That was what I thought. Thanks!The problem is that the wikia people have strong google-fu.
pathfinderwiki is updated and maintained mostly by the people who originally worked on the golaripedia.
There was a post many moons ago about why they didn't scuttle the old site when they jumped ship. I think it's a shame though: it would avoid confusion if the pathfinderwiki was the site and wikia's pull didn't keep an out-of-date site atop google searches.
Basically:
pathfinder wikia = last updated in 2010
pathfinderwiki = updated today and every day
Um. Isn't that illegal or something? I mean, I guess it's not, otherwise you'd do something about it. Ugh.
That's... really low. >:(
EDIT: Hey, do you know what the X-number of pages are?
It may be interesting to get a number of people who delete less than that number each.
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I like the Golarion deities a lot. Nethys is way cooler than Mystra Sue and Boring Boccob.Nethys bores me. The crazy part is somewhat intriguing, but I find myself much more interested in what he did before he became a god. Now that he is one, he seems to just be there most of the time.
Well what's nice about him being crazy is that he doesn't care who uses magic or why. So he won't be tempted to meddle like Mystra did, shutting off the Weave because you didn't want to sleep with her or whatever.
And it's good to have a sun deity that isn't a total wuss.Have you never encountered Pelor, the Burning Hate?
** spoiler omitted **
I try and get the Burning Hate to be made the standard for any campaign I'm in that features Pelor.
Yeah I know all about that joke. It's sad that the only way the fanbase could find to make him semi-interesting was to make him secretly Hitler. Good doesn't have to mean boring...
Well what's nice about him being crazy is that he doesn't care who uses magic or why. So he won't be tempted to meddle like Mystra did, shutting off the Weave because you didn't want to sleep with her or whatever.
I... what? No, seriously, what? I've not actually seen anything like what you're suggesting, here.
Good doesn't have to mean boring...
This I agree with wholeheartedly.
Well what's nice about him being crazy is that he doesn't care who uses magic or why. So he won't be tempted to meddle like Mystra did, shutting off the Weave because you didn't want to sleep with her or whatever.I... what? No, seriously, what? I've not actually seen anything like what you're suggesting, here.For a while in FR (largely the events of a single novel, which would work out to maybe a few months to a year at the most in the timeline?), she was blocking access to magic for people she didn't like (e.g. Cyric, or Tempus momentarily) and/or making battle magic in particular very hard to use. It meant wars were fought more often without arcane magic.
Eventually the other gods told her to cut it out and be fair, and she agreed. Cyric and Kelemvor had similar problems (Cyric only administered chaos and so on to his own followers, while Kelemvor was judging the dead by the wrong criteria) until they shaped up as well.
That's kind of what I mean, though. I know about the recently-ascended gods' "learning curve" (which always made sense to me), but it certainly wasn't the thing Psyren was making it out to be.
Despite the "or whatever", the only people I know of that actually slept with Mystra and got anything out of it was Elminster (who slept with the LN second Mystra) and the ranger guy who's name I forgot who fathered the Seven Sisters (who slept with his wife who was inhabited by the LN second Mystra) and went crazy and killed himself when his wife died because of it. The LN didn't arbitrarily deny people magic. The only magic she denied, to my knowledge, was the magic that would directly threaten her and the Weave (i.e. unique 10th level spells and up).
The NG third Mystra started out by denying some people magic, but did so for thematic and comprehensible reasons, and cut that out quickly.
The impression Psyren gives is that Mystra (any of them) just goes around denying people magic, "because reasons", implying that only those that get her "special" favor can use it. Such an impression is extremely incorrect. Mystra can deny the magic, but she doesn't outside of very specific instances with pretty good reasons, the one learning curve aside.
I do agree that if a god of magic is unnecessary, than having one is unnecessary.
It's worth noting, though, that:
1) Even Nethys has his limits: he highly disapproves of Rovagug-releasing, for example, and will go out of his way to prevent that from occurring.
2) Nethys doesn't control magic. He just is simply "the best" at magic and Nethys, at least, because he ascended by using a spell. Thus his title. He was predated by an Azlanti god of magic (I don't know what happened to him, though I think I recall him dying in Starfall or Earthfall, or something) who was similarly limited.
3) Wee Jas was interesting because she had different portfolio elements, whereas Boccob was generic because all of his were designed around the same ideas. I liked Mystra (all three of them) better than Boccob as well. That said, Boccob was pretty cool (as long as you ignored the 3.0 Deities and Demigods stat-up. He desperately needed to replace 10 levels with Mystic Theurge (), and five levels each with Arch Mage and Heirophant (). But that's just how I'd handle it. :) ()
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Mythic Realms give info on what happened to the Azlanti God of Magic.
After his wife sacrified herself to move the moon and block/break out the Aboleth asteroid, He sacrificed himself to neutralize the aboleth spell that was used to bring the asteroid.
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The Church of Cayden Cailean is the church of That. Drunk. Friend.
You know the one - if he wakes up on a Saturday before noon, it's a miracle, but it also means he'll be wherever you need him to be to help with whatever you need. Forever trying to replace reliability with exuberance and extra effort. This is why he's the god of heroes - because heroes are rarely the ones who toil ceaselessly, but the ones who are there when "cometh the moment."
They're fearless, sure, but they're also almost never around when you need them. When it's time to move furniture, they're sleeping one off; when it's time to save a hot girl, they magically appear and work twice as hard as everyone else.
Periodically useful, entertaining, and endlessly frustrating.
Mythic Realms give info on what happened to the Azlanti God of Magic.
After his wife sacrified herself to move the moon and block/break out the Aboleth asteroid, He sacrificed himself to neutralize the aboleth spell that was used to bring the asteroid.
Oh, sweet! I need to pick up that book.
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It could be made into a generic, non-god-controlled force.
I think in Golarion, it is a non-God controlled force. There was clearly Magic before Nethys, because he managed to achieve omniscience via arcane means (and since Knowledge is power to Wizards, omnipotence at the same time) and thus bootstrap himself to Godhood. And there are other Gods with the Magic domain, as long as they have an interest in Arcane lore and not just using their own innate power.
Nethys is less the 'God of Magic' and more the 'God of Magic Users'.
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Where can I find out more about this story?
I usually have no real love for the lore of Golarion and its inhabitants or geography, and I don't even really like reading (those two are possibly related). But I just learned about this and it sounds like such a great story concept that I feel like I must know more.
Inner Sea World Guide doesn't mention much - is there any other books that go in-depth into this legend?
Who was the genius who thought up this idea?
Playing RPGs but don't liking to read?
My mind boggles.
I VASTLY prefer the Nethys style of God of Magic, where he is really the god of spellcasters and the "Wizard of the Gods," and magic is a neutral force* that is not controlled by a god who grants it to mages. That turns mages into essentially arcane clerics.
That's why Divine Magic is there, to be the god-granted magic; I prefer Arcane Magic to be a neutral, almost scientific supernatural manipulation of the laws of physics (like the way the ORIGINAL Vancian Magic System was, in Jack Vance's stories.) It was more of a type of super-science where Wizards were able to manipulate reality through memorizing hyper-mathematical formulae that were based on bizarre, arcane scientific principles that weren't actually understood anymore, but the Wizards knew the effects the formulae created.
*(Or, preferably, multiple forces of magic and forms of magical energy, at least a different force for each school of magic, rather than one grand unified "magical energy" a la "The Force." How many natural forms of energy are there? Why shouldn't there be just as many supernatural forms of magical energy? Like the way Lazurite in the Darklands produces Necromantic radiation; the naturally occurring energy which is harnessed to produce the effects of spells of the School of Necromancy. The School of Enchantment probably uses arcane psychological principles to produce many of its' effects, using esoteric word-sounds that trigger the right reaction in the mind, backed up by a little bit of some kind of arcane energy. And similar for every other School, with each one being based on entirely different forms of energy and using different principles and methods of producing magical effects. Much more satisfying, in my opinion.)
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Where can I find out more about this story?
I usually have no real love for the lore of Golarion and its inhabitants or geography, and I don't even really like reading (those two are possibly related).
Playing RPGs but don't liking to read?
My mind boggles.
For the novels in the pathfinder line that are hard to get through, I buy/download the epub version. Most android devices have the Amazon kindle ap downloaded on them, the text to voice option allows you to listen to the book, even if it is an emotionless robotic voice.
@Mark Hoover
That's the first time I see someone use the Pathfinder pantheon outside Golarion.
I am honestly surprised about such, but I'm glad it works out for you and the group.
Actually, I'm running an interstellar, magic-based space game with my girlfiend and am using the Golarian deities for it, by and large. I use a few others that I like from other settings too...haveta say, though, I'm looking forward to Iron Gods simply so I can steal technology. >.>
It could be made into a generic, non-god-controlled force.I think in Golarion, it is a non-God controlled force. There was clearly Magic before Nethys, because he managed to achieve omniscience via arcane means (and since Knowledge is power to Wizards, omnipotence at the same time) and thus bootstrap himself to Godhood. And there are other Gods with the Magic domain, as long as they have an interest in Arcane lore and not just using their own innate power.
Nethys is less the 'God of Magic' and more the 'God of Magic Users'.
interesting....
You just gave me a villain to use in my darklight sisterhood campaign.
It could be made into a generic, non-god-controlled force.I think in Golarion, it is a non-God controlled force. There was clearly Magic before Nethys, because he managed to achieve omniscience via arcane means (and since Knowledge is power to Wizards, omnipotence at the same time) and thus bootstrap himself to Godhood. And there are other Gods with the Magic domain, as long as they have an interest in Arcane lore and not just using their own innate power.
Nethys is less the 'God of Magic' and more the 'God of Magic Users'.
interesting....
You just gave me a villain to use in my darklight sisterhood campaign.
Interesting. Care to share?
It could be made into a generic, non-god-controlled force.I think in Golarion, it is a non-God controlled force. There was clearly Magic before Nethys, because he managed to achieve omniscience via arcane means (and since Knowledge is power to Wizards, omnipotence at the same time) and thus bootstrap himself to Godhood. And there are other Gods with the Magic domain, as long as they have an interest in Arcane lore and not just using their own innate power.
Nethys is less the 'God of Magic' and more the 'God of Magic Users'.
interesting....
You just gave me a villain to use in my darklight sisterhood campaign.
Interesting. Care to share?
That, my friend, is a long story...
MY PLAYERS KEEP OUT
Huh. Nice ideas.
Why thank you!
I may go into the entire background of my Golarion in another thread.
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With Mythic Realms giving us a bit more on the starstone, I think Cayden is a liar, about being drunk. The test is not just about your stengths, it about knowing your weaknesses. Telling you he was drunk makes it mysterious and keeps his secrets and others. Being the god of drinking and having the piss scared out of you probably sobers you up pretty fast, is all I'm saying ;)
I don't know. I could see him being that frightened, then taking a drink or twelve "to regain courage" along with the idea, if not the exact quote:
"Well, yeah, thish's muh weakness. No duh." *Glug-glug-glug* "A dag-gum aweshome weaknesh!" *Hic*
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Cayden doesn't have a drinking problem. It's not a problem when you're really good at it.
That's like saying Michael Jordan had a basketball problem, or Babe Ruth had a baseball problem.
Or, for that matter, saying that Babe Ruth had a drinking problem...
edit: Why am I suddenly remembering my favorite John Travolta line in a movie ever. "My father was a drunken lecherous gambler, I worshiped my father!"| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My wife mentioned this morning that it may, perhaps, have been part of the test of the Starstone that kept him inebriated. It's quite possible there's some sort of "negative status reinforcement" to keep people down or something.
Or perhaps the Starstone surreptitiously refilled his booze-bottle. Starstone-shine. That's some high quality proof, right there.
()
Well, how much of a story is there to tell when that guy doesn't even remember what happened? At least we got more story than Norgorber, who is really good at being the god of secrets.
What if there's a reason for why Cayden can't remember? Maybe he was a member of Norgober's adventuring party when he passed the Test of the Starstone, or hell, maybe even a split personality of ol' Blackfingers himself?
Norgorber passed the Test of the Starstone in 1893 AR and is neutral evil; Cayden Cailean in 2765 and is chaotic good.
It would be interesting, but that's some strange timing, there. It would indicate that Cayden was a god all along (even during his supposed mortality), and only after "taking the test" did anyone realize it.
Of course, a GM could come up with the idea that since Norgorber has four aspects in his church (and is the first other than Aroden), and there are a total of four gods that ascended, perhaps something significant about the number four with the Test.
Or that each of the gods after Norgorber were simply "filling up slots" that Norgorber left behind somehow, and are both secretly aspects of him.
Of course, then again, why stop at Norgorber?
Perhaps they're all secretly Aroden...
(I don't actually believe this, but it could make for a cool individualized campaign idea, if you want it.)
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My wife mentioned this morning that it may, perhaps, have been part of the test of the Starstone that kept him inebriated. It's quite possible there's some sort of "negative status reinforcement" to keep people down or something.
Or perhaps the Starstone surreptitiously refilled his booze-bottle. Starstone-shine. That's some high quality proof, right there.
()
Or he got to be a god through a drinking contest.
Or the rooms that kept challenging him would offer him his choice of a +5 vorpal dancing sword... or a mug of ale. And every room he went into he chose the ale.
And the best part is Calden is fine with anything you make up, as long as its funny and or instructive.
Oh, by the way. My posts that present potentially contradictory information to anyone's ideas, aren't to tell people, "you're wrong." I really hope they don't come off that way.
Instead they're meant to inform (based off of current canon) or to help inspire and broaden horizons with a different perspective. That way you can either take your current idea and refine it, or go with a new one you like better.
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Perhaps they're all secretly Aroden...
(I don't actually believe this, but it could make for a cool individualized campaign idea, if you want it.)
The Starstone FRACTURED him as a gem refracts light....
The gods need to get themed outfits and be able to COMBINE into Aroden in times of crisis.
Perhaps they're all secretly Aroden...
(I don't actually believe this, but it could make for a cool individualized campaign idea, if you want it.)
The Starstone FRACTURED him as a gem refracts light....
The gods need to get themed outfits and be able to COMBINE into Aroden in times of crisis.
"By your powers combined, I am,..."
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"....Really, incredibly wrong on so many levels."
I love it.
Ahem, we should all know that Aroden isn't dead or fragmented; he's JUST HIDING!