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Where can I find out more about this story?
I usually have no real love for the lore of Golarion and its inhabitants or geography, and I don't even really like reading (those two are possibly related). But I just learned about this and it sounds like such a great story concept that I feel like I must know more.
Inner Sea World Guide doesn't mention much - is there any other books that go in-depth into this legend?
Who was the genius who thought up this idea?
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While the story appears to be true, there hasn't been much in the way of detail (even in Cayden's official deity write up during Second Darkess).
My theory is he doesn't remember how he passed the test of the Starstone. He was 100% blackout drunk, and woke up the next day with an epic hang-over and worshippers.
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If players were to pick a deity based on coolness factor rather than something silly like, say, which favoured weapon or alignment that deity has, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing a lot more players pick this old chap every single time.
Don't talk to me about Desna and her stars, or Sarenrae and her forgiving flowers.
dot for later
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Well, how much of a story is there to tell when that guy doesn't even remember what happened? At least we got more story than Norgorber, who is really good at being the god of secrets.
If players were to pick a deity based on coolness factor rather than something silly like, say, which favoured weapon or alignment that deity has, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing a lot more players pick this old chap every single time.
Don't talk to me about Desna and her stars, or Sarenrae and her forgiving flowers.
Or Calistria and her duality, or Shelyn and her Mary Sue-ness, or Zon-Kuthon and his chains and backstory, or Sivanah and her many colors, or Norgorbor(at all, god of secrets who also passed the test in secrets), or Asmodaeus and his contracts, or Lamashtu and her evil plots, or Pazuzu and his plots, or Torag and his dwarfiness, or Nethys and his duality(and great archives)? Lots of deities out there, and my examples only used the ones out of core!
I don't like Cayden that much myself, or most of the gods in pathfinder.
Anyways, if I remember correctly there aren't details about the test of the starstone in order to deliberately keep it vague and open for adventures, same with things like details of Aroden's disappearance, details on the decemvirate, and quiet a few other things. Someone knows the answer, but not us consumers. We get to make up our own plots and plot hooks and all that(or something like that).
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Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.
So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
Well, did he succeed?
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Well, how much of a story is there to tell when that guy doesn't even remember what happened?Have you seen Momento?
Now I can't stop picturing the "Don't trust him" with a picture of Norgorber.
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Well, how much of a story is there to tell when that guy doesn't even remember what happened?
I'm reminded of a time on a camp at University where after a particularly drunken party one guy woke up with a massive bruise on his fist - and another guy woke up with a massive bruise on his head.
The looks of absolute confusion on their faces as they couldn't personally remember what happened - but their minds were making up a tale that ended in a king hit was marvelous.... but they injured themselves in completely separate situations.
Or in other words - the abscence of truth and clarity means that the emptiness can be filled with any variety of wonderment you wish for. The only things that are known are that he was:
a) Drunk when he did it.
b) Ended up a God afterwards.
Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
Well, did he succeed?
He doesn't remember. Which would be quite poetic eh?
He doesn't remember. Which would be quite poetic eh?Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
Well, did he succeed?
Touche!
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So does he have a porcelain throne?
Indeed. And a pizza azata herald.
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He doesn't remember. Which would be quite poetic eh?Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
Well, did he succeed?
This might actually be true for that instance, which, who knows, may have happened during his apotheosis and actually played into it.
But they actually have hooked up from time to time since then.
Funny thing, but IIRC his old pal in mortality and now herald Thais turns him down everytime, just as in their mortal lives. I've always wanted to see that relationship explored a bit more...they aren't the usual "master and servant" arrangement you see in most god/herald relationships but more "old friends". With the herald snarking at the god.
If players were to pick a deity based on coolness factor rather than something silly like, say, which favoured weapon or alignment that deity has, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing a lot more players pick this old chap every single time.
Don't talk to me about Desna and her stars, or Sarenrae and her forgiving flowers.
Or Calistria and her duality, or Shelyn and her Mary Sue-ness, or Zon-Kuthon and his chains and backstory, or Sivanah and her many colors, or Norgorbor(at all, god of secrets who also passed the test in secrets), or Asmodaeus and his contracts, or Lamashtu and her evil plots, or Pazuzu and his plots, or Torag and his dwarfiness, or Nethys and his duality(and great archives)? Lots of deities out there, and my examples only used the ones out of core!
I don't like Cayden that much myself, or most of the gods in pathfinder.
Which ones do you like then and why?
Aye - the relationship of Thais to CC is definitely intriguing. Outside of that though I'm not too much of a Thais fan.
I find myself gravitating to the minor gods / eldest / empyreals most of the time - Reymenda being one of the recent likes.
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If players were to pick a deity based on coolness factor rather than something silly like, say, which favoured weapon or alignment that deity has, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing a lot more players pick this old chap every single time.
Don't talk to me about Desna and her stars, or Sarenrae and her forgiving flowers.
I'm sorry, cayden as the travel domain. That right there is worth the price of admission. Also CG is a pretty easy alignment to fit into. Caydenites are pretty much the MOST common clerics I see around here...followed by shelyn for some off reason. Well technically I suppose sarenrae would be one if we included Kyra. Cayden is awesome in so many ways :) .
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Well, did he succeed?Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
I think I read in the deity article that Cayden himself takes exception to this myth. Like if you asked him if it was true he'd say "Shut up!" and get all grumpy.
Funny thing, but IIRC his old pal in mortality and now herald Thais turns him down everytime, just as in their mortal lives. I've always wanted to see that relationship explored a bit more...they aren't the usual "master and servant" arrangement you see in most god/herald relationships but more "old friends". With the herald snarking at the god.
Y'know, something similar happened in Kelly McCullough's 'Ravirn' series of novels (starting with Webmage), where they had a wisecracking shifting goblin/laptop sidekick attached to one of the many hundreds of children of the fates, who eventually becomes a god in his own right. Personally, I found the interplay between them hilarious.
I REALLY like that idea, it lends a lot of comedy gold to the scene, which is almost always appreciated. Anything to bring the funny, I always say. It's those moments of 'Really? Did his mortal servant basically just flip him the bird and walk off?' that your players go home chuckling to after a good session.
If players were to pick a deity based on coolness factor rather than something silly like, say, which favoured weapon or alignment that deity has, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing a lot more players pick this old chap every single time.
Don't talk to me about Desna and her stars, or Sarenrae and her forgiving flowers.
Hell, his alignment and Domains aren't exactly bad either.
Travel Domain is godlike (pardon the pun), and Strength isn't too shabby either. Charm a bit less so, while Good and Chaos are poor, but hey. 3/5 ain't bad.
His weapon is kind of odd though. The god of booze and freedom fighting uses a dainty weapon like a rapier? Seems more like a longsword man to me but mmmkay.
If players were to pick a deity based on coolness factor rather than something silly like, say, which favoured weapon or alignment that deity has, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing a lot more players pick this old chap every single time.
Don't talk to me about Desna and her stars, or Sarenrae and her forgiving flowers.
Hell, his alignment and Domains aren't exactly bad either.
Travel Domain is godlike (pardon the pun), and Strength isn't too shabby either. Charm a bit less so, while Good and Chaos are poor, but hey. 3/5 ain't bad.
His weapon is kind of odd though. The god of booze and freedom fighting uses a dainty weapon like a rapier? Seems more like a longsword man to me but mmmkay.
He needs a weapon like a Beer Stein or broken chair/bar stool.
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I don't like any of the ways Paizo has designed the setting or game. I just like spending hours and hours on the messageboard telling people how much better I could do it.
Wait...no...that would be a mindbogglingly dumb thing to do.
I actually like the game, the setting, the developers and so I hang out on here because of that.
And in answer to the OP, I believe SKR is that genius. Same guy who wrote the Forgotten Realms God book.
Or James Jacobs. Or both.
You know, the people who we pay money to because we think they do good work.
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I don't like any of the ways Paizo has designed the setting or game. I just like spending hours and hours on the messageboard telling people how much better I could do it.
Wait...no...that would be a mindbogglingly dumb thing to do.
I actually like the game, the setting, the developers and so I hang out on here because of that.
And in answer to the OP, I believe SKR is that genius. Same guy who wrote the Forgotten Realms God book.
Or James Jacobs. Or both.
You know, the people who we pay money to because we think they do good work.
In your opinion, at least. Thankfully you have no authority with which to make people do things "your" way :D
Anyway, I accept Cayden's story as an example of Rule of Cool. I also accept that not everyone likes him. YMMV and such.
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I don't like any of the ways Paizo has designed the setting or game. I just like spending hours and hours on the messageboard telling people how much better I could do it.
Wait...no...that would be a mindbogglingly dumb thing to do.
In your opinion, at least.
This is one of those times where I just post what someone wrote, because it is so much more effective at making my point than anything I could write.
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I'm not sure which is the more jerkish behaviour: telling the setting designers "ur doin it rong" or pointing out that it's silly to spend hours on a game forum complaining that the setting designers "r doin it rong".
Pretty sure they're both kind of jerkish behaviour, though.
IMO.
There's a difference between just saying "u r doing it wrong" to the devs and giving them more actual critique.
However, Ciretose seems to insist that they are one and the same, and that differing opinions must be purged from here.
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I'm not sure which is the more jerkish behaviour: telling the setting designers "ur doin it rong" or pointing out that it's silly to spend hours on a game forum complaining that the setting designers "r doin it rong".
Pretty sure they're both kind of jerkish behaviour, though.
IMO.
There is saying "I think this aspect of the game could be better and here is a formal suggestion I submit for discussion and debate. Please feel free to be as critical toward my opinions as I have been toward the developers of the game" and "I don't like most of the "X" in the game, I would do it so much better...how dare you criticize my opinion!"
One is useful, one isn't.
You got ninja'd, bro.
Aha! Ze common enemy strikes again! :p
It's a drow thing, isn't it?
This thread is about Cayden. We can discuss drow tactics elsewhere. Though I wonder what would a Drow follower of Cayden drink...
This thread is about Cayden. We can discuss drow tactics elsewhere. Though I wonder what would a Drow follower of Cayden drink...
EVERYTHING!
But he would do it with style, panache, and be considering how to most effectively poison everyone else at the table. Assuming he was CN, anyway. If he was CG, he'd just be jealous of the dwarf next to him, because he can never drink the dwarf under the table.
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Really? We're doing this now? A flame war... in a fun thread about how a fictional god got hammered, passed out and woke up as a deity?
...
Shut it down and save it for therapy.
I frankly don't know anything about the Golarion setting save for what's posted on the wiki. I've never purchased any Golarion-specific books except one: the Guide to Darkmoon Vale; I don't own any APs and have only a couple modules.
That being said I've adapted all of the PF gods, including CC into my homebrew. I appreciate that the flavor given to them is enough for generating ideas but not part of the rule sets so that they can be changed easily.
As for the work Paizo does? Top Notch. I was a customer when Dungeon magazine got yanked and they handled everything in the classiest possible way imaginable. Add to that the fantastic creative output, the updates to a game I already had and loved, and ongoing support on these boards and elsewhere, and frankly I can't think of another group I'd like to give my gaming budget to. Except for a few 3PPs (you know who you are!)
Are there some bumps and wrinkles in their products? Of course; we're all human. But right in line w/the original theme of the first DMG, they have built in the idea that we the fans make what we will out of this thing. They EXPECT us to change their stuff, to make it ours.
Getting back to Cayden, in Karnoss (my homebrew) he's largely unchanged. He was a Dunevain (eastern-European types like Romanians and Transylvanians) hero who sneered at the gods... and a roaring drunk. Rather than smite him the deities set a series of ever harder challenges before him and he passed each one. Eventually he won immortality and was honored with a feast among the deities, at which point he hit on Pharasma, Saranrae Desna and Shelyn, all of whom in Karnoss are related. It was... regrettable.
Needless to say CC is a national hero and deity in some of the oldest parts of Karnoss (where misogyny still reins) but among the more enlightened regions who became "civilized" in the rise and fall of Karnoss, Cayden is little more than a bore.
@Mark Hoover
That's the first time I see someone use the Pathfinder pantheon outside Golarion.
I am honestly surprised about such, but I'm glad it works out for you and the group.
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Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
The two myths combine pretty easily.
One night in a local bar the topic of drunk talk turns to goddesses
"Calistria...I'd totally tap that."
"Dude you'd never get near her"
"Totally would."
"no way you'd like have to be a god or something"
"Pft... I could do that."
"Bull S$#@"
"I could so. Do the whole Starstone thing"
"Bet you 5 gold you never make it past the front door"
"You're on"
grabs a spare keg on the way out and heads for the dungeon.
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@Mark Hoover
That's the first time I see someone use the Pathfinder pantheon outside Golarion.
I am honestly surprised about such, but I'm glad it works out for you and the group.
That's me: full of surprises!
I used to use the default D&D pantheon up through 3.5. When I picked up PF my first player wanted to play a cleric of Saranrae so I shrugged and said "Sure!" Years later, when I re-booted and created Karnoss, I just figured it was easier to use the core deities than try to create my own.
Of course I've personalized them in the fluff. Pharasma is the mom; Saranrae, Desna and Shelyn are her capricious daughters. Several other gods fit in here and there. The "fun" gods (chaotic or neutral ones) ran away from mom's spiral to make a place to play. This First World was silly and wild, but there were no souls there and it was ripe for corruption. Pharasma and other Lawfuls smiled at the others like children, then laid the Material World over theirs. Here and there it pokes out and some fey have jaunted to the Material over the eons to become one of the prime scourges of Karnoss (a "dark fairy-tale themed" homebrew) but the gods have since remained distant.
Now when the gods did all of this they were tired, so for millennia they disappeared and in their absence many creatures and other worlds took notice of the Material. They came and made themselves known to mortals, and thus became the Old Ones; this explains why some Aberrant or truly ancient forces like demons, Gozreh or other powers have been in man's consciousness forever but formalized worship of many core deities is more recent.
The Mother of Souls however never took her eye off the Material and when things got REALLY bad she ordered her family back there to corral some of the craziness. They've been around ever since.
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Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
The two myths combine pretty easily.
One night in a local bar the topic of drunk talk turns to goddesses
"Calistria...I'd totally tap that."
"Dude you'd never get near her"
"Totally would."
"no way you'd like have to be a god or something"
"Pft... I could do that."
"Bull S$#@"
"I could so. Do the whole Starstone thing"
"Bet you 5 gold you never make it past the front door"
"You're on"
grabs a spare keg on the way out and heads for the dungeon.
I don't know about Calistria, but there is a rumor of Cayden having a son with Desna
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grabs a spare keg on the way out and heads for the dungeon.
Spare keg? No wonder he doesn't remember it.
Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
The two myths combine pretty easily.
One night in a local bar the topic of drunk talk turns to goddesses
"Calistria...I'd totally tap that."
"Dude you'd never get near her"
"Totally would."
"no way you'd like have to be a god or something"
"Pft... I could do that."
"Bull S$#@"
"I could so. Do the whole Starstone thing"
"Bet you 5 gold you never make it past the front door"
"You're on"
grabs a spare keg on the way out and heads for the dungeon.I don't know about Calistria, but there is a rumor of Cayden having a son with Desna
Ack! I love the post, but as this is the second time I've seen this lately, I'd really rather you guys link to the pathfinder wiki version in stead (it's just www.pathfinderwiki.com).
I mean no disrespect to whomever deals with (dealt with*?) Golaripedia, but my antiviruses and firewalls occasionally go crazy over there, and whether or not they do, with all the advertisements Golaripedia has, my computer gets grumpy at me and then I get various apps crashing and all that.
* I'm not entirely sure if Golaripedia is actively updated anymore. It may be. As I said before, I'm not attempting any sort of disrespect to those who attend the place, however when I used to look at both regularly as my Golarion source, it proved less informative and less responsive to updates and information than the Pathfinderwiki. At one point, I actually thought it was dead for a while. Anyway, let me know if I'm incorrect.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If players were to pick a deity based on coolness factor rather than something silly like, say, which favoured weapon or alignment that deity has, I'm pretty sure we'd be seeing a lot more players pick this old chap every single time.
Don't talk to me about Desna and her stars, or Sarenrae and her forgiving flowers.
Cayden's pretty popular among PFS players locally, as are Calistria and Torag.
Basically, either you align yourself with a deity whose veneration requires nothing more than drinking/whoring/fighting, or you're an atheist.
Having a psychology background, that leaves my brain wild with speculations about the local playerbase. ;)
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Heres a little excerpt from Faiths of Balance:
Followers of Cayden Cailean fit in well with Calistria’s faithful, and it’s said that Cayden himself undertook the Test of the Starstone solely in an attempt to win (and survive) a night in the goddess’s arms.So that's one interpretation of why Cayden took on the Starstone... he was horny for Calistria.
Well, did he succeed?
She says that story is false.... rather often to her round eyed children
@Mark Hoover
That's the first time I see someone use the Pathfinder pantheon outside Golarion.
I am honestly surprised about such, but I'm glad it works out for you and the group.
I know a couple of people who use the Golarion pantheon for their settings because they don't want to bother writing up their own pantheon.
Honestly, if I didn't play in a setting that predated the Core Rulebook, I might well have snagged the default pantheon for my campaign world, too.