Agents of Shield


Television

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Chris Mortika wrote:

Lord Fyre, I presume that ** spoiler omitted **

It will be interesting to see how the bad guys align against Our Team.

Not only that, but you could clearly see that the handcuffs were put on very loosely, not tightened at all. Clearly the whole thing was planned to go down like that... but by whom? Coulson?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

good stuff:
Good point Chris M: the New Son of Coul wouldn't be so careless... he planned this... coincidentally at a time where Ward is in top shape (he's basically been working out for 3 weeks in captivity)

The New Son of Coul wants Ward to succeed and take down his Old Ward Brother... :)

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GentleGiant wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

Lord Fyre, I presume that ** spoiler omitted **

It will be interesting to see how the bad guys align against Our Team.

Not only that, but you could clearly see that the handcuffs were put on very loosely, not tightened at all. Clearly the whole thing was planned to go down like that... but by whom? Coulson?

I might believe that, were it not for making Director Coulson complicit in the murder of one or more F.B.I. agents.


Great episode and I wasn't surprised about

spoiler:
ward escaping
in fact it was going to happen eventually. Though I hope you guys are right and Coulson expected it and planned for it.


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GentleGiant wrote:


Chris Mortika wrote:


Lord Fyre, I presume that ** spoiler omitted **

It will be interesting to see how the bad guys align against Our Team.

Not only that, but you could clearly see that the handcuffs were put on very loosely, not tightened at all. Clearly the whole thing was planned to go down like that... but by whom? Coulson?

Ward cleared his mind and focused before slipping out of the cuffs. They were not especially loose. Cuffs are not supposed to cut off circulation, or be perfectly snug around a wrist. They are not form fitting (ties are better in some ways) nor are they torture devices intended to inflict injury or pain. They are supposed to be tight enough to prevent (normal) prisoners from slipping them off. They made the fatal error of assuming Ward was normal. Ward dislocated his thumbs to slip the cuffs. Muscular dislocation (and relocation) is difficult and painful. And a fairly esoteric skill. Ninja used it to escape bonds, slip through narrow spaces etc. by dislocating various joints and "popping" them back in afterwards. That appeared to be what Ward did.


Yeah I don't think Coulson planned for Grant to escape. Beyond the whole "murdering/possible murder" of innocent soldiers, Coulson knows that Grant is rather crazy, and will probably go after Skye at some point. Given the Father-Daughter vibe between those two, I don't think he would risk it.

My inclination is that Coulson trusts neither Ward brother, but a politician is easier to control than a loner psychotic special agent who is obsessed with one of your operatives.


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I'm hoping there's a "plan within a plan" here, because otherwise it was just bad TV. Handcuffing him in the front? A guy who's trained to kill with his bare hands? That's usually combined with waist chains and leg restraints exactly so things like this don't happen.


Shadowborn wrote:


I'm hoping there's a "plan within a plan" here, because otherwise it was just bad TV. Handcuffing him in the front? A guy who's trained to kill with his bare hands? That's usually combined with waist chains and leg restraints exactly so things like this don't happen.

Normally a prisoner is cuffed behind the back (unless their is a medical reason or additional restraints applied or they need to use their hands -- to sign documents for example). I suspect they wanted you (the viewer) to see what happened and having it happen behind the back would have made that difficult. In terms of doing what he did once he slipped the cuffs it wouldn't have made any difference (and for that matter you can do a lot with hands cuffed to the front anyway). So, sloppy restraint procedure or TV necessity. Your pick.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, I'm with R_Chance here. Ward is supposed to be just below Romanov in terms of martial competency. He's not the best SHIELD has (or, truly, had - they're not at their peak any longer), but he's damn good. If the only security that Ward had to break was to slip his handcuffs and overpower a guard to grab a gun, then it really doesn't matter whether his hands were behind his back or not. Honestly, Coulson slipped up here - he should have drugged Ward or something first.

So, anyone else here think that Christian Ward is just as monstrous as Grant?

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Misroi wrote:

Yeah, I'm with R_Chance here. Ward is supposed to be just below Romanov in terms of martial competency. He's not the best SHIELD has (or, truly, had - they're not at their peak any longer), but he's damn good. If the only security that Ward had to break was to slip his handcuffs and overpower a guard to grab a gun, then it really doesn't matter whether his hands were behind his back or not. Honestly, Coulson slipped up here - he should have drugged Ward or something first.

So, anyone else here think that Christian Ward is just as monstrous as Grant?

I do think that Christian Ward is as bad as Grant painted him - despite Grant's other lies.

The F.B.I. does have procedures for transporting extremely dangerous prisoners. Something is really wrong here.

Is the Senator behind Grant Ward's escape?

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lord Fyre wrote:
Misroi wrote:

Yeah, I'm with R_Chance here. Ward is supposed to be just below Romanov in terms of martial competency. He's not the best SHIELD has (or, truly, had - they're not at their peak any longer), but he's damn good. If the only security that Ward had to break was to slip his handcuffs and overpower a guard to grab a gun, then it really doesn't matter whether his hands were behind his back or not. Honestly, Coulson slipped up here - he should have drugged Ward or something first.

So, anyone else here think that Christian Ward is just as monstrous as Grant?

I do think that Christian Ward is as bad as Grant painted him - despite Grant's other lies.

The F.B.I. does have procedures for transporting extremely dangerous prisoners. Something is really wrong here.

Is the Senator behind Grant Ward's escape?

He wouldn't be the first congressman/senator to be a member of Hydra.

Shadow Lodge

Dragon78 wrote:
Great episode and I wasn't surprised about ** spoiler omitted ** in fact it was going to happen eventually. Though I hope you guys are right and Coulson expected it and planned for it.

I seriously hope not. The show is just barely hanging on for me, and I thought Ward turning to the dark side was going to be interesting, but so far it's been incredibly dull. And to be honest, compared to the majority of the team, I'm hard pressed to even see him as "the bad guy" of the lot.


Ward and his family are just creepy.
Although despite all his other lies I trust that he was telling the truth to Skye, the whole truth and no lies... but you can manipulate people with the truth just like you can with lies.

The Exchange

So I'm not smart enough to figure the plot of this latest episode.

Spoiler:
What was that Hydra ploy with the safehouse that Fitz figured out? I lost track of the story there. Who was that sleazy scientist guy?

As for the (obvious) Great Escape... I don't know, that whole section was weird. Why were there FBI agents in the SHIELD headquarters? isn't it supposed to remain a secret? Or did they reveal their location as part of their deal with the senator?

And it doesn't seem like Coulson intended for Ward to escape... I think this is just an instance of the entire "people are stupid about permanently stopping comic book villains" thing.

Quote:
Ward is supposed to be just below Romanov in terms of martial competency.

Well, we know that May is a step above him (their fight last season was a close thing but she did end up winning rather decisively), and she still seems leagues below Romanov... are you saying something that was mentioned by someone with the authority to say that for sure? Because I'm pretty sure that all the characters in this show are supposed to be small fish compared to any of the Avengers.

Sovereign Court

Well, Natasha is just a badass normal.

The Exchange

Hama wrote:
Well, Natasha is just a badass normal.

I'm having trouble imagining Ward keeping up with the Avengers the way Black Widow does. True, the TV show just doesn't have the resources to show the kind of fight scenes that a Black-Widow-esque character demands so Ward might be better than they are able to show, but... all we have to go by is the TV show.


Have to say I do enjoy that the ladies of the team are the front line fighters.

Lance isn't but he's basically back-up and comedy relief to May and Mockingbird


Hama wrote:
Well, Natasha is just a badass normal.

*sigh*

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Greylurker wrote:

Have to say I do enjoy that the ladies of the team are the front line fighters.

Lance isn't but he's basically back-up and comedy relief to May and Mockingbird

Yes. That's Lance's job: to appear so insignificant that he can stealth on you in plain sigh and put a gun to your head (as he did with Rena...)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Lord Snow wrote:
Quote:
Ward is supposed to be just below Romanov in terms of martial competency.
Well, we know that May is a step above him (their fight last season was a close thing but she did end up winning rather decisively), and she still seems leagues below Romanov... are you saying something that was mentioned by someone with the authority to say that for sure? Because I'm pretty sure that all the characters in this show are supposed to be small fish compared to any of the Avengers.

Yes, it was mentioned by someone with the authority to say that: Maria Hill, in the first episode of Season 1, when Ward's character was being introduced.


Here's the quote in question:

Phil Coulson: Agent Hill did a very detailed assessment of your last three missions. Combat, top grades. Espionage, she gave you the highest marks since Romanoff. Under people skills she drew a... I think it's a little poop, with knives sticking out of it.

He's below Widow in Espionage, not combat. (Though "top grades" implies he's up there.)


well...Mockingbird was a sometimes Avenger, and she seems to show a similar degree of combat proficiency to Melinda May. So yeah I assume Melinda is around Black Widow capability, we just get to see less of it due to a TV budget.

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Which is funny, because Ward seems to have developed these cunning people skills.


Kalshane wrote:

Here's the quote in question:

Phil Coulson: Agent Hill did a very detailed assessment of your last three missions. Combat, top grades. Espionage, she gave you the highest marks since Romanoff. Under people skills she drew a... I think it's a little poop, with knives sticking out of it.

He's below Widow in Espionage, not combat. (Though "top grades" implies he's up there.)

It should also be noted these assessments might have been not entirely true as Hydra (more specifically Garret) might have fudged them so he would get the job.

The Exchange

Chris Mortika wrote:
Which is funny, because Ward seems to have developed these cunning people skills.

He explicitly said that he pretended to be the "Agent Cleftjaw" type to get Coulson's attention (by having Coulson think he could help him develop as a human and an agent). The real Ward is quite the manipulator.

Anyway, yeah, that quote from Maria Hill is enough to convince me.

Sovereign Court

Aaand, no episode this week. I hate it.

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Hama wrote:
Aaand, no episode this week. I hate it.

They are at least doing a MARVEL special.


? What special is this? Clips from upcoming movies?


R_Chance wrote:
GentleGiant wrote:


Chris Mortika wrote:


Lord Fyre, I presume that ** spoiler omitted **

It will be interesting to see how the bad guys align against Our Team.

Not only that, but you could clearly see that the handcuffs were put on very loosely, not tightened at all. Clearly the whole thing was planned to go down like that... but by whom? Coulson?

Ward cleared his mind and focused before slipping out of the cuffs. They were not especially loose. Cuffs are not supposed to cut off circulation, or be perfectly snug around a wrist. They are not form fitting (ties are better in some ways) nor are they torture devices intended to inflict injury or pain. They are supposed to be tight enough to prevent (normal) prisoners from slipping them off. They made the fatal error of assuming Ward was normal. Ward dislocated his thumbs to slip the cuffs. Muscular dislocation (and relocation) is difficult and painful. And a fairly esoteric skill. Ninja used it to escape bonds, slip through narrow spaces etc. by dislocating various joints and "popping" them back in afterwards. That appeared to be what Ward did.

I just watched the two segments with the cuffs again (when he gets them put on and when he slips out of them). Definitely loose-fitting.

In the first segment it shows how they hang loosely from his arm and in the second segment you can see a large gap between his arm and the cuffs. Here's a screenshot.
Now, granted, I'm not a law enforcement officer of any kind, but to me they look awfully loose, especially on a guy of Ward's level of training.


I don't think he 'slipped' them off... the way he was rubbing his thumb and flattening it down, I REALLY think he just went that 'extra' mile and BROKE his thumb...

Which is TV trope #21 for 'how to get out of handcuffs'. Right next to 'Dislocate shoulder to get out of straight jacket'.

I'll agree that it was probably a dumb idea. He should have been tased, drugged and stunned.... for old times sakes if no other reason... but I don't think Coulson WANTED it to happen, or that it was as simple as people tend to make it.

Just something about the way he was rubbing that thumb was telegraphing the escape pretty clearly. He was in handcuffs.. .and knew what he had to do to get out of them.

As for 'as good as romanoff'... Meh.... Depends on where the scale is ;)

If she got a 100, and he got 58... it's still legit if he's just the 'highest since...'

Though to be fair, Black Widow hasn't done a WHOLE lot of impressive things in the movies yet... I think Mai and Ward are probably in her class. She's a bit more gymnasticy, but for epic beatdowns and 1 vs. XXXX odds? The AoS are pretty awesome.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Doh, looks like I should have gone back to the source before making that claim. So, yeah - the combat capability chart goes Romanov > May > Ward, but the spycraft chart goes Romanov > Ward > May.

And yeah, the more I think about it, Christian is probably a beast of a different sort. The whole Ward family is screwed up. I'm just waiting to find out that the third brother didn't die in that well, and is Baron von Strucker or something.

Dark Archive

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Lord Snow wrote:
Quote:
Ward is supposed to be just below Romanov in terms of martial competency.
Well, we know that May is a step above him (their fight last season was a close thing but she did end up winning rather decisively), and she still seems leagues below Romanov... are you saying something that was mentioned by someone with the authority to say that for sure? Because I'm pretty sure that all the characters in this show are supposed to be small fish compared to any of the Avengers.

I *think* that Ward had the 'best scores since Romanov' in infiltration and undercover work, which, kind of pointedly, is what SHIELD trained him to do and rewarded him for doing to other groups for SHIELD, while, the whole time, he was doing it to SHIELD for Garrett as well...

"Why yes, Director Fury. All that schmoozing my way into organizations and gaining their trust and betraying them from within that you were so proud of me doing for SHIELD? Must be terribly confusing and shocking to you that the dog you trained to bite people could bite you."


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Bridget Regan just joined the cast of Agent Carter. I still have a residual crush on her from the Legend of the Seeker days.

The cast of Agent carter is looking really good. Much stronger than AoS.

One standout is Enver Gjokaj who played Victor from Dollhouse. I thought he was spectacular in that roll and I can't fathom why he is not more active.


Muad'Dib wrote:

Bridget Regan just joined the cast of Agent Carter. I still have a residual crush on her from the Legend of the Seeker days.

The cast of Agent carter is looking really good. Much stronger than AoS.

One standout is Enver Gjokaj who played Victor from Dollhouse. I thought he was spectacular in that roll and I can't fathom why he is not more active.

agent carter is getting her own show entitled agent carter?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Yep, it's half season interm show that will be aired during the winter break of Agents of Shield.

Here is the imdb page: Agent Carter

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Freehold DM wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:

Bridget Regan just joined the cast of Agent Carter. I still have a residual crush on her from the Legend of the Seeker days.

The cast of Agent carter is looking really good. Much stronger than AoS.

One standout is Enver Gjokaj who played Victor from Dollhouse. I thought he was spectacular in that roll and I can't fathom why he is not more active.

agent carter is getting her own show entitled agent carter?

... spreads a rumor that it is a Joss Whedon show, just so Freehold DM doesn't watch it.


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Lord Fyre wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:

Bridget Regan just joined the cast of Agent Carter. I still have a residual crush on her from the Legend of the Seeker days.

The cast of Agent carter is looking really good. Much stronger than AoS.

One standout is Enver Gjokaj who played Victor from Dollhouse. I thought he was spectacular in that roll and I can't fathom why he is not more active.

agent carter is getting her own show entitled agent carter?
... spreads a rumor that it is a Joss Whedon show, just so Freehold DM doesn't watch it.

avoids show like the plague

Shadow Lodge

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Muad'Dib wrote:
Bridget Regan just joined the cast of Agent Carter. I still have a residual crush on her from the Legend of the Seeker days.

Kahlan lust reactivated!

I'm still bitter that they never put LotS out on Blu-Ray. Bridget Regan deserves to be in 1080p. ESPECIALLY as Kahlan Amnell.

And Heyley Atwell is easily the best looking woman to be in a comic book movie to date.


Kthulhu wrote:
Kahlan lust reactivated!

It was deactivated? I have yet to find this feature in my mind.

Kthulhu wrote:
I'm still bitter that they never put LotS out on Blu-Ray.

Not to mention beautiful New Zealand landscape. I never bought in DVD and purchased them on ITunes in HD. It's the only place I know that has it in HD.

Kthulhu wrote:
And Heyley Atwell is easily the best looking woman to be in a comic book movie to date.

Have you seen Jennifer Connelly in the Rocketeer? But yeah...Hayley Atwell is stunning to say the least.

-MD

Sovereign Court

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Am I wrong for having the hots for Cara?

Dark Archive

Muad'Dib wrote:
Have you seen Jennifer Connelly in the Rocketeer? But yeah...Hayley Atwell is stunning to say the least.

Also Jennifer Connelly in the first Hulk movie. Liv Tyler, the Betty from the second Hulk movie is a lovely lady, but Connelly is just amazingly pretty.

Sovereign Court

Jennifer Connelly in any movie she's in.


Jennifer Connelly: 'Nuff said.

Shadow Lodge

Jennifer Connelly was at her peak around the time of the Rocketteer / Career Opportunities. At that time, she would have been a VERY close second to Hayley Atwell.

But compare them both today, and to quote Mortal Kombat....

FLAWLESS VICTORY!!!

Shadow Lodge

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Muad'Dib wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Kahlan lust reactivated!

It was deactivated? I have yet to find this feature in my mind.

More like on hiatus, since I haven't seen her in anything of note since LotS ended.

Dark Archive

Ward dialogue

"Since [Baron von] Strucker is overseas ..."

----

We were sharing an excellent bottle of Château Margaux 2009 at the time, as they say, all World Domination and no play makes Wolfgang a dull Übermensch.


Sky's contact "Micro" ...yeah, that's a punisher reference. Awesome!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hama wrote:
Am I wrong for having the hots for Cara?

It just shows that you're breathing.

Sovereign Court

And I'm not really into the fetish mistress type. So it's kinda strange. But the woman is absolutely gorgeous.

The Exchange

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