Agents of Shield


Television

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I'm guessing it's a map of Attilan.


Shadowborn wrote:
I'm guessing it's a map of Attilan.

So are most everyone else.

Which may mean theyll come up with something completely different.

I'm not betting that way though.

Attilan is my guess, too.


Finally caught us with the season. So far I have enjoyed AoS. Ward is one crazy person.


Yes. I'm glad they're making up for their mistakes last season and making the two weakest links in the show (Ward and Skye, though I never had the Skye hate others did) into more interesting characters. Ward especially is a lot more fun to watch as "ambiguous, crazy villain" than "generic hero guy with a dark past".


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Spiral_Ninja wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
I'm guessing it's a map of Attilan.

So are most everyone else.

Which may mean theyll come up with something completely different.

I'm not betting that way though.

Attilan is my guess, too.

Honest to all the gods I put an apostrophe in they'll. Twice!

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Greylurker wrote:

Have to say I do enjoy that the ladies of the team are the front line fighters.

Lance isn't but he's basically back-up and comedy relief to May and Mockingbird

Yes. That's Lance's job: to appear so insignificant that he can stealth on you in plain sigh and put a gun to your head (as he did with Rena...)

My theory about Lance's insignificance-stealth power has been proven. Ward is totally ignoring him IN A COWBOY HAT.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
Shadowborn wrote:
I'm guessing it's a map of Attilan.

Yes. Nothing else makes sense that would be built into the alien blood DNA... unless all Kree come standard with hookup connection TO THE KREE SUPREME INTELLIGENCE!!!! GAAAAAAAAAH!


AOS has more characters that they have screen time to give. I have a feeling something is going to shake up the roster.

BTW Lance should always wear a cowboy hat, he looked too cool for school.

The Exchange

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Shadowborn wrote:
I'm guessing it's a map of Attilan.
Yes. Nothing else makes sense that would be built into the alien blood DNA... unless all Kree come standard with hookup connection TO THE KREE SUPREME INTELLIGENCE!!!! GAAAAAAAAAH!

I thought the city might be a single design based on the first kree city so no matter where in the empire you live you live in the city. In which case Attilan is also a replication of the kree city in which eternals and deviants lived.

It would be like every city on earth being new york. Even though your new york was on the moon...

The Exchange

Error...error: kree created the inhumans and the celestials created the eternals and deviants.

Why then are eternals involved in the construction of Attilan? Why would kree derived vaccine direct Coulson and others to obsess over a map of a city that wasnt designed by kree but occupied by human subraces evolved from humans?

Smells like a pooch.


The problem is in your premise: Attilan wasn't built by the Eternals or Deviants- it was built by the Kree. (Nor was it ever occupied by them; the Eternals lived in Olympia- not Olympus, mind- and the Deviants lived in the undersea city of Lemuria.)

The Eternals did carve out the Great Refuge in the Himalayas and helped the Inhumans move Attilan there, but they didn't build the city.

The Exchange

Cthulhudrew wrote:

The problem is in your premise: Attilan wasn't built by the Eternals or Deviants- it was built by the Kree. (Nor was it ever occupied by them; the Eternals lived in Olympia- not Olympus, mind- and the Deviants lived in the undersea city of Lemuria.)

The Eternals did carve out the Great Refuge in the Himalayas and helped the Inhumans move Attilan there, but they didn't build the city.

The ancient city is destroyed by black bolt and is rebuilt and modernized before it is moved to the blue area of moon. So why would kree blood vaccine compel recipients to need to map Attilan when the only real kree city is the on the blue area of moon where uatu the watcher lives?

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Wel, I think you're confusing two continuities there, YD.

In the Marvel Cinematic Universe, I doubt very much that the Blue Area of the moon will even exist. Attillan will have a much simpler back-story and history.

But you do raise a larger point: why was the kree blood donor looking for Attillan so hard it was hard-coded into his DNA? And is Attillan really that old? And for that matter, why do both SHIELD and HYDRA assume Attillan still exists, after millennia?


Chris Mortika wrote:


And for that matter, why do both SHIELD and HYDRA assume Attillan still exists, after millennia?

Laying aside the other questions, this one is simple. You look because the other guy is looking. If it doesn't exist, oh well. You have the opportunity to mess with the enemy. If it does exist and the other guy finds it you are... well it's an impolite, if accurate, term I shouldn't post on a message board :)


yellowdingo wrote:
The ancient city is destroyed by black bolt and is rebuilt and modernized before it is moved to the blue area of moon. So why would kree blood vaccine compel recipients to need to map Attilan when the only real kree city is the on the blue area of moon where uatu the watcher lives?

As Chris said, I think you're putting the cart before the horse in regards to MCU continuity. While all of the above is true in the comics*, it isn't necessarily the way things are in the Cinematic Universe.

As a) there isn't currently a known "Fantastic Four" in the MCU (and likely won't be for a long time), then as far as MCU continuity need be concerned the Inhumans refuge in the Himalayas may not have yet been discovered by outside hands, leaving it open territory for them to still have it be found by, say, the Agents of SHIELD.

I will agree, though, that the blood having some sort of genetic map of a kree city (or any city, really) is frankly kind of silly. That said, if the kree that the blood was taken from predates the building of Attilan, that could explain things; even if the city had subsequently been rebuilt, the kree's "blood" wouldn't know it.

*Frankly, it wasn't a completely extensive rebuild of the city, as enough of Attilan's kree foundations remained that- once they moved it back to Earth- Ronan the Accuser and his kree minions were able to take it over and reactivate its engines to carry it into space again. It's not even currently on the moon in the comics, but back on Earth. It's moved lord knows how many times in the past decade or so.


phantom1592 wrote:

I don't think he 'slipped' them off... the way he was rubbing his thumb and flattening it down, I REALLY think he just went that 'extra' mile and BROKE his thumb...

Which is TV trope #21 for 'how to get out of handcuffs'. Right next to 'Dislocate shoulder to get out of straight jacket'.

I'll agree that it was probably a dumb idea. He should have been tased, drugged and stunned.... for old times sakes if no other reason... but I don't think Coulson WANTED it to happen, or that it was as simple as people tend to make it.

Just something about the way he was rubbing that thumb was telegraphing the escape pretty clearly. He was in handcuffs.. .and knew what he had to do to get out of them.

Yep, watching the latest recap with closed captioning on, and right when ward was rubbing his hand, it added in [Bone Snaps} for the sound effect... So yeah, he broke it ;)

Chris Mortika wrote:

Wel, I think you're confusing two continuities there, YD.

In the Marvel Cinematic Universe, I doubt very much that the Blue Area of the moon will even exist. Attillan will have a much simpler back-story and history.

But you do raise a larger point: why was the kree blood donor looking for Attillan so hard it was hard-coded into his DNA? And is Attillan really that old? And for that matter, why do both SHIELD and HYDRA assume Attillan still exists, after millennia?

There are lots of assumptions going around. In the show they have really said nothing about it being kree, or Attilan, or inhumans or 'millennia old' or anything else yet... It's too early to start pounding these theories into stone yet.

Personally as I've never read an inhuman story I liked... I really hope they do NOT go this route. The theories floating around are good ones... but ehhhhh I'm still holding out hope.

But yeah, it's crazy to assume that IF the inhumans are showing up... then they'll have the exact cookie cutter origin/backstory as they have in 75 years of comics... Nobody ELSE has had the same story, why would they??

As for the reason to look? They are advanced aliens... with Alien powers of healing, and probably enough super-tech to at least GET to earth in the first place... Something had survived... (Though since it was in a SHIELD tank, I assume it was 'fresh'... after all ancient dead things either wouldn't have had the tank... or wouldn't have needed the tank... I think that thing was alive or 'recent dead' when they found it.

And yeah, like Chance said... Super alien Hydra weapons were a problem for them in WWII, they certainly can't allow the bad guys to get their hands on anything else that will tip the scales....O.o


Chris Mortika wrote:
But you do raise a larger point: why was the kree blood donor looking for Attillan so hard it was hard-coded into his DNA?

This is a silly thing. Maybe we'll learn that this kree was the city's architect. Maybe it's nanites. Still silly.

Quote:
And is Attillan really that old?

You've never heard of ancient aliens? :P

In the comics it is, and I wouldn't be surprised if the MCU followed a similar tact (as it appears with this latest revelation). They might even incorporate some of those "ancient alien" myths into the Inhumans' back story, even.

Quote:
And for that matter, why do both SHIELD and HYDRA assume Attillan still exists, after millennia?

Well, until this episode, they didn't know anything about Attilan (assuming that's what this city is). SHIELD only just learned that the drawings were a map to the city.

In any event, knowing it was a city or not, they were simply doing what any archaeologist or paleontologist or historian does- following the clues that existed, leading to more clues, in an effort to uncover some kind of mystery- whatever it turned out to be. There is something to be discovered- as they've already done- they're just eager to continue finding more.

And the age doesn't matter; we still find fossils that date back millenia, use dating techniques to uncover truths and hypotheses about our world as it might have existed that long ago. And we're just regular old humans in a non-superpowered world.


I know the speculation is that this is going to link up to the Inhumans, but part of me just has trouble imagining they would introduce that setting element in Agents of Shield, when they are going to make a whole movie about it. So even if we somehow get to Attilan, they can't really show any major characters they plan on having in the movie.

I do wonder if this whole thing is not going to be a red herring, and this plot arc hasn't been deliberately created to get people talking about Inhumans.


I think it would be cool to introduce in the series before the movie.


Well, there are other options for hidden cities.

It could be Atlantis or Lemuria- though it would be difficult to do underwater cities on a tv budget (particularly one seemingly as FX low as AoS), plus, there have been talks about a Namor movie eventually.

It could be K'un-L'un, thus setting the stage for tie-ins with the Iron Fist Netflix series, but K'un-L'un doesn't seem to have much to do with Skye's backstory as we know it.

It could be Wundagore, bringing the High Evolutionary into things (and expanding on the Jessica Drew speculation).

It could be Olympia- the hidden city of the Eternals, bringing the Eternal/Deviant storyline into play in AoS; certainly, the description of Skye's parents as "monsters" might fit with the Deviants. Skye could be a freak of Deviant society that turned out pretty and with Eternal traits (like Ransak the Reject).

But the Inhumans are more likely than anything at this point, IMO.

The Exchange

Well they have an Inhumans movie in the works, and the city design matches up with Attilan's layout (based on fuzzy memories admitedly), all that remains to be seen is if they go the amalgamating a bunch of similarly derived concepts/locations and where they stick them, for instance make Blue area of the moon research base/Attilan/Olympia one in the same and stick in the Himalayas and merging Inhumans,Eternals and Deviants for the purposes of the MCU like they did the Cube/Space Gem.

The Exchange

I'm hoping it is infact a kree city and the standard layout of all Kree cities are identical and each a megascale interface allowing the occupants to be a part of the kree supreme intelligence.

The Exchange

I would like to see a shield investigation of the conference Tony stark and killian (ironman 3) attended. It seems to me they may have both encountered the real mandarin there and been subject to Manchurian candidate brainwashing. Killian, incapable of understanding technology pulled together others to turn the A.I.M. thinktank into something perverted (like Apple computers) but fixated on the creation of the mandarin as a bogeyman. Tony on the other hand may have fixated on the technology inherent in the mandarin's rings. So he developes a refinement of the arc reactor powersource and the repulsor tech and the armor. Consider each one of the mandarin's rings to be an arc reactor and the gem on one to be a cut crystal resonator that works as a repulsor.


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Cthulhudrew wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
But you do raise a larger point: why was the kree blood donor looking for Attillan so hard it was hard-coded into his DNA?
This is a silly thing. Maybe we'll learn that this kree was the city's architect. Maybe it's nanites. Still silly.
yellowdingo wrote:
I'm hoping it is infact a kree city and the standard layout of all Kree cities are identical and each a megascale interface allowing the occupants to be a part of the kree supreme intelligence.

Maybe the GH-325 serum links the recipients tenuously to the Kree Supremor/Supreme Intelligence, which is telepathically sending the map so the city can be found/unearthed? Perhaps some Kree macguffin (like the Psyche-Magnitron) is hidden there, perhaps it is an uneasily slumbering Supremor itself? If they do get a definitive location, they should assign USAF Captain Danvers to lead the SG-1ish team to find it.


Maybe it's just as simple as a way for any lost Kree/Inhuman to always know how to get home.


Damn...

spoiler:

That episode gave a lot of answers at the same time as raising a lot of questions. And went some places that I didn't expect.

First off...well...if there were concerns that Ward was going to get a redemptive arc, this episode seems to have put those thoughts to rest. Ward killing his family, and blaming his now dead brother? That's cold, even if they might have been abusive. Especially since their last scene shows them all brotherly

I also got a hint that the brother was exactly correct in describing Ward. Ward seems to be incapable of taking responsibility for his actions. "I was only following orders" is not a valid excuse, whether it refers to your brother "convincing" you to try to kill your brother, or betraying your shield team to Hydra last season. Ward is a sociopath through and through.

Also, did anyone get a vibe/foreshadowing that one of the current Agents of Shield might be compromised/brainwashed? it seems this episode hinted at it. My guess would be Simmons or Fitz's new mechanic friend, although I think they will probably strongly throw out red herrings that point to Mockingbird. A traitor in the midst would explain how Hydra knew to be at that station at just the right time.

Also...well we totally know why The Doctor referred to Whitehall as a Butcher. Eek.


MMCJawa wrote:

Damn...

** spoiler omitted **

Yep.

Doc Hydra, whatever name he's using, is soooooo dead.

Edit: Also, why didn't Coulson, or even Fitz, go 'Well, then, just what IS her name?"

Second edit: I just found this interesting theory.

Grand Lodge

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I thought it was a great episode. I'm guessing The Diviner is

Spoiler:
the Soul Gem/Stone.

Liberty's Edge

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Spoiler:
Okay, as I see it, there are tow options with regards to Ward:

1. He really killed his family. This is possible, but seems...dramatically unsatisfying.

2. He did not kill them, helped his brother fake their deaths as part of a plan, and is playing his brother off against Whitehall, against Coulson in a con game of epic proportions. I really like this idea, actually.

Speaking of con games...I knew as soon as they met that Whitehall had no chance in hell of successfully keeping control of Skye's father, even before the bit at the end. Skye's father is a far more dangerous predator than Whitehall will ever be.

It's also possible that Skye's dad is not as bad as we've been led to believe. I mean, Hydra might easily be the one responsible for the dead village (especially since the people reporting on that could've been Hydra)...and even if he did kill the SHIELD agents responsible for grabbing Skye it's hard to blame him given how riddled SHIELD was with Hydra agents and (perhaps more importantly) the fact that they stole his child. With those crimes doubtful or potentially justified...what's he really done? He's killed two professional criminals, some Hydra agents, and not cared much how Reina performed missions he gave her. That's...not actually that bad all things considered. Is he a good guy? Obviously not. But he could pretty easily be not all that bad.

The Exchange

Deadmanwalking wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Good. Bad. They are so us vs them...skyes father is 'me and mine'. Oddly enough so is everyone elses perspective. They just dont admit it.

Hail hydra!

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

He also doesn't age.

But you bring up a character I've been wondering about. What's Raina up to?

Sovereign Court

He does age. Look at that final scene again. They used CGI to smooth over his wrinkles.

Liberty's Edge

yellowdingo wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Good. Bad. They are so us vs them...skyes father is 'me and mine'. Oddly enough so is everyone elses perspective. They just dont admit it.

Hail hydra!

I disagree. SHIELD certainly does some morally questionable things, but I think they're at the very least a 'lesser Evil' as compared to an organization that brainwashes people as a matter of course and wants to rule the world as a fascist dictatorship.

As is Skye's father, actually...


Great episode, I really loved the part at the end with Whitehall, Ward, the Mad Doctor.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

spoiler:

Nah, I think he just killed his parents/brother. I am not sure what a Senator has to gain from faking his death and pinning his parents death on him. He already has political power,and forfeiting it (for who knows how long) to MAYBE come out as a hero later on is a bit too chancy. And his brother is not the hero type anyway.

Although to be honest, with Ward a missing fugitive, I can't imagine the media will buy that the Senator was responsible. I mean it's a bit too coincidental that a top Hydra agent (with known family issues) escapes, and then suddenly his family is murdered.

That final scene with Ward, Whitehall and the Doctor together was interesting. I don't think ANY of them trust one another (with good reason), and I can't see this alliance lasting. Although at least Ward and the Doctor have some creepy common ground.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
MMCJawa wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
I think Ward simply killed his brother and parents, then pinned the whole thing on his brother. I don't think there's a deeper conspiracy. Now, I wonder what they're going to do with the eventual introduction of his younger brother. Also, don't forget that Skye said that Ward's brother had swept the whole escape under the rug because he didn't want the bad publicity of his brother escaping. If his brother was successful using his power as a Senator to compartmentalize Ward's escape, then there won't be many more people looking for him than there were already.
Sovereign Court

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Hide:
So let me see if I understood well: Skye's mom was an inhuman in exile from Attilan, probably located at the north pole from the looks of the tribesmen that adopted her (they appeared to be of either Inuit or Mongolian descent). Skye's dad is pissed and wants to kill Whitehall, but only after he takes his revenge on Coulson and secures Skye. Skye's dad = inhuman as well? rumors point to Maximus


Skeld wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

spoiler:

The brother from what we have heard might be completely normal (well as normal as one could be given his background). My guess is he will show up at some point, and be able to completely cut through all the Ward BS. We have had several episodes at this point where both older brothers say the other brother was the "bad seed", and I think it has been intentionally left vague for just that reveal.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

spoiler:

In the comics, there are lost "tribes" of inhumans. If the inhuman angle is true, than Skye's mom is probably one of the lost tribes. I think any A-list Inhuman as well as Attilan is going to be saved for the movie.

I still prefer the theory that The Doctor = Hyde, while Skye = Quake.

Also, I think those guys were just suppose to be Chinese/generically Asian. I think pointing to Mongolia or the Article circle is a pretty huge reach.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber

I don't know... maybe... but they had cold weather gear I think...


The village where Skye was found was in the Hunan province of China, where the SHIELD team and the entire village was killed protecting her.

Location of Hunan province.


Not much of a reveal, but it's been officially confirmed what the blue guy is.

Liberty's Edge

MMCJawa wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Well, I was more thinking that Ward was in a position to threaten his brother into going along with his plan than it being his brother's idea.

Plot Hole:
What about the two bodyguards that the Senator had? Are they dead as well? Probably, but they should have mentioned it as well.

Also, what happens when Ward's public trial is supposed to start? "Uhh, it'll be delayed."


The Great Refuge, in the Himlayas, is one of three different locations the city of Attilan occupied in the comics. The Himalayas do not border Hunan province, but who knows how far from "home" Skye was when she was found?

The "Asians" in the last episode might have been intended to represent Tibetans or Nepalese.

If Skye's father is the Inhuman called Maximus the Mad, well, he's persona non grata in Attilan and might as easily have been in Hunan as anywhere.


DM Barcas wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Well, one of them came through the window of the Senator's car, courtesy of Ward. I think we can safely assume they're dead, since he would have had to eliminate both of them in order to grab his brother without being shot.

As for Ward's trial, I don't know. Someone will eventually realize he's no longer in custody.

Dark Archive

Spoiler:
Unless they say they Gitmo'd him?

The Exchange

Shadowborn wrote:
DM Barcas wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

What he meant was, it seems pretty incredible that the Senator's two bodyguards were found dead so close to the alleged suicide of the senator. Something should be obviously fishy about this.

Sovereign Court

They weren't. Bodygards were found inside the summer house. Corpses were found inside the family house.


Yeah I don't think the Senator killing his family is going to hold up for long. But then it really doesn't need to, since it's not like it really effects Wards long term plans anyway. He is still wanted as a Hydra agent, and neither Coulson or Whitehall will think/think the story is genuine

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