| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
When I first got exposed to the campaign setting I kind of liked Cayden, but as time went on, my view on him soured, to the point where I see him as a pretty significant black mark on Golarion as a whole.
I think it's mostly due to when I was looking at the setting initially, it was mostly through a player's eyes, and the idea of Cayden served as a pretty much low-maintenance deity. Doesn't really ask for much; the dogma fits pretty well in to the life of an adventurer, and so on.
Though, as a DM, his existence began to bug me, as it really took away from the nature of godhood. The starstone itself, I'm not too pleased in, because it's existence means that any worthy enough mortal could become a god, which rubs me the wrong way, since my feeling is that you shouldn't be able to just "become" a god. Even the most powerful and worthy of mortals should still just be a really powerful and worthy mortal. But even with the existence of something like the starstone, I can accept someone like Aroden assuming godhood; it makes some deal of sense, in a sort of way. But Cayden's ascension breaks the concept for me. It seems really hard to believe that there really is much of value behind godhood if a guy can stumble in drunk and pass the test of the starstone. It kind of feels like the Monty Python bit from Holy Grail: "Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!."
The problem worsens when you realize that Cayden is on the same level of divinity as the other 19 major gods. What does that say about Sarenrae when she's no more powerful or worthy than the hedonist who drunkenly wandered into a cathedral, thinking it was a bathroom?
So how does everyone else manage to reconcile this, or am I the only one for whom this annoys?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't think all of the dieties are on the same level, but with that aside maybe he is just that good.
Being drunk is most likely equal to being sickened in game terms, and I think each portfolio is important. Him being a drunk does not mean what he supports has no value, and makes him no less of a hero, even if it might not make him a role model to many people, including some other deities most likely.
While I get that, it seems to me that he's just too average to be a god. Him being a hedonistic drunk isn't what bothers me as much as the fact that he doesn't seem any more godlike, than say Valeros. The iconic part of Valeros' title of "Iconic Fighter" means that he is meant to be a representation of the class, and while well fleshed out, no more exceptional than the average member of the class. So, unless I'm missing something, I guess my real problem is that I can't see what makes Cayden so exceptional that makes him worth of godhood, and without that something exceptional, it's hard to see godhood as really something worthy of the title.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
T., you seem to believe that godhood is worthiness. I feel that, in Golarion, godhood is power.
It is implied that being worthy is necessary to get that power, but all things said and done, it is all about the power an entity wields.
Also they needed someone to become the god of murderous hobos of Good and Neutral alignments, aka adventurers.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
IIRC, Tholomyes, the first part of the 'Test of the Starstone' is jumping across under your own power. Pretty impressive feat, sober or drunk.
The Starstone is itself the ultimate McGuffin. Sure the faithful preach of Cayden's ascention, and sure he's a god, but it's not clear how he passed the Test.
(Note, the below are conspiracy theories and not sourced in anyway)
As to the other gods...
We still don't know why they want worshippers. Unlike Faerun-post-Godswar, the gods of Golarion don't need worshippers. It has been implied, if not said, that Erastil figures Cayden will settle down eventually (and that Iomedae will find a male figure to make an honest woman of her), and given the age of the other deities, it's likely they consider all of the ascended either a 'blip' or something they'll grow into, given time.
Personally, I like the 'one of us' aspect of Cayden's godhood and faith.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Starstone is itself the ultimate McGuffin. Sure the faithful preach of Cayden's ascention, and sure he's a god, but it's not clear how he passed the Test.(Note, the below are conspiracy theories and not sourced in anyway)
He got lucky, Desna smiled on him.
He wasn't as drunk as you think he are. Cayden was really really sober and serious when he took the test. It was after the test that he understood he needed a 'niche' and thus the drunken god was born.
He has some kind of destiny to fufill. The Starstone Itself determines who ascends, and has a purpose for Cayden.
He is meant to not be an exceptional paladin/wizard/sorcerer/cleric. He's a good man with a blade and a love of life, and to be Golarion's ur-example of "Good boy done right."
He isn't Cayden Cailean. An iconic fighter went in, and Something came out calling itself Cayden, but it's not the real Cayden.
Also note that the tests once in the cathedral supposedly change based on who is attempting to reach the stone.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Maybe there's more to being a god then passing the entrance exam and having really good letters of recommendation...
Cayden serves multiple roles, including fitting into a fool-type archetype and serving as inspiration to others that their worthiness is not measured by the standards of mortals. Perhaps Cayden possessed some unknown quality that was overshadowed by the tales of his drunken heodinism, something that only the Starstone could identify, and that is what allowed him to become a god. Or perhaps those very qualities, the willingness to embrace and transcend his vices, are what allowed him to ascend.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I feel like you could make a lot of these objections about trickster gods in general -- especially when you look at myths that make the tricksters out to be the actual creators/more powerful than the other gods, etc.
Personally, I've always taken it as myth's attempt to deal with the presence of chaos/random unfairness in the universe.
| 16 people marked this as a favorite. |
if loving Cayden Cailean is wrong
then I do not want to be right
|
|
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
See, you're wrong about some fundamental things here:
First, Cayden Cailean was not just 'some average guy' who passed the Test of the Starstone while drunk. Read the description of his Herald, Thais, and some things about their life...he's someone absolutely epic who passed the test of the Starstone while drunk.
Per James Jacobs' statements, he was probably around a 20th level Fighter, (probably plus some serious Mythic Tiers) and per description seems the kind of guy who overthrew lords when they annoyed him, and who may've gotten a personal interview with Calistria (albeit maybe one where she turned him down).
He was profoundly and unbelievably badass even before the Starstone thing.
Second, as per Golarion, being a God isn't a matter of moral merit (look at the Evil Gods) just a mater of pure power, and several deities were once mortal (Iomedae, Irori, Nethys, Urgathoa and Norgorber on top of Cayden just among the core 20).
So how does everyone else manage to reconcile this, or am I the only one for whom this annoys?
He's not my cup of tea, and I've found him annoying ever since I first read a description of him. You hit a lot of the reasons I found him & the details around him annoying (so I'll refrain from adding to what you said*). But.
But: I recognize he is some people's cup of tea and he fills a role both in the game-world OOC (to appeal to the kind of player for whom he is their cup of tea) and IC (people for whom the kind of thing he embodies are best suit to describe that, I'd only slight it if I made an attempt to; suffice to say, it's not just "Lawfuls" who can bring out insufferable gameplay).
So I guess while he bothers me, his existence doesn't bother me. If that makes any sense.
T., you seem to believe that godhood is worthiness. I feel that, in Golarion, godhood is power.
Except the Starstone implies, or at least people can be excused for inferring, that its method of selection involves some measure of aptitude. That's why the OP mentioned how Cayden's ascension seemed to trivialize it: even "raw power" doesn't seem to have been key, in the sense that a lot of powerful people have tried and failed, and what made him "special" is he tried while in a state of drunken stupor. Of course, the story surrounding his ascension doesn't tell all there is to know, but it is all we have to go on.
Of course, again, YMMV on this and I recognize that: to the people for whom Cayden is their cup of tea, everything including how he "achieved" gawdhood, and what they (which may be different from what I) interpret it as implying, is just what they like. So to each their own; a lot of people play these games and they vary in what they find "annoying" vs what they find "yep, that's the kind of spirit my PC can get behind! My character would love to share a drink with Cayden, or at least his kind of people are my character's kind of people! I can see my character rollin' with them!"
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Maybe there's more to being a god then passing the entrance exam and having really good letters of recommendation...
I think this is what it comes down. Also IRL, it fits the paradign of many prophets/enlightened ones/saints/whatever not 'fitting' into the pardign of a 'winner'. After all, Francis of Assisi was probably someone who had learning disabilities by our standards, bad relations with his parents, little more then a playboy who got religion and became a bum instead (at least that's one way to look at it).
Moses was a studerer, probably a bit of a loner before he became a prophet.
And I could give some Native American, Norse, and Japanese examples of people/dieties who don't seem 'worthy' of their divinity, and in a way, that's kind of the point....pointing out that the standards of the divine and normal 'human' standards are not one in the same.
And I've noticed, talking about both fictional and RW religion that some people intuitively get this and others have a hard time wrapping their mind around the concept. It's not a criticism, but understand that others are seeing things you are not.
|
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I feel like you could make a lot of these objections about trickster gods in general -- especially when you look at myths that make the tricksters out to be the actual creators/more powerful than the other gods, etc.
Personally, I've always taken it as myth's attempt to deal with the presence of chaos/random unfairness in the universe.
Trickster gods are interesting to me because their actions often, but not always, result in creating a better or more favorable circumstance than what would have normally happen. At the very least, they seem to know what the results are going to be before they act and do what they do to achieve their desired results.
I like to look at a few of them as being considered tricksters only because people don't understand them or their motives and thus explain their acts as pranks or jokes. In reality, they are really acting to shape the world to their ideal but don't care enough to tell anyone or explain themselves.
Maybe in the case of some of the tricksters they had such amazing foresight that they acted in ways that seemed chaotic at the time but would cause events that they knew very well would have specific and desired effects many, many years to centuries later. To those who witnessed them act it would look like a trickster playing around and acting foolishly. To those who can look forward and see how those silly acts will change the world it would be like looking at a higher intelligence and wisdom.
Of course, this doesn't make trickster gods any less jerks as they are normally depicted as. They frequently don't have any regard for others or their opinions. They just act without care for immediate consequence and do not seem to think they are really responsible or accountable for their actions.
Loki, for example, does a great deal to improve the lives of the gods he lives with, but also commits many acts that just outright annoy or hinder them. In the end he causes the death of Baulder, which (and this is me and not in any way the actual legend,) he may have done to actually ensure that Baulder will be able to return later to rule after Ragnarok, but he is so unrepentant and belligerent about his involvement that he become way more severely punished than any other criminal in Norse mythology.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Isn't there an Asian myth about someone becoming immortal through excessive drinking?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Isn't there an Asian myth about someone becoming immortal through excessive drinking?
Lu Dongbin, one of the Eight Immortals, as I recall it.
Isn't there an Asian myth about someone becoming immortal through excessive drinking?
Probably, but it's sort of beside the point of the Starstone thing and "passing the test."
Again, I do distinguish between morally worthy vs. worthy-due-to-power-and/or-being-selected-to-fill-a-role-in-the-pantheon (arguably the Starstone "deems" someone to succeed if 1) they are powerful AND 2) they would fill a role in the pantheon. Anyhow from a design perspective this is what happens).
Anyhow the point isn't even whether he's a trickster-diety. What makes him annoying, to those who find him annoying, is the whole package.
Just as other of the dieties are probably annoying to other people, for their own reasons. I myself "get" that.
I'd also add that I can see someone playing a follower of Cayden well: someone who plays a Dablone-type *well* (I just really miss Toblerone. . .), someone who can play a BRIAN BLESSED type well (that means, knowing that even Brian Blessed isn't BRIAN BLESSED in every scene) making for a character that is the life-of-the-table, and thus contributing to a fun enjoyable time by all (that sort I enjoy too). When done well.
Cayden though doesn't just embody that but embodies. . .a certain type. People who, to take it OOC, look to play a. . .certain type, and then claim "look, I'm just role-playing the character as what he is, a follower of Cayden Cailean." Truth is though if they don't have Cayden, they'll glom onto something else.
It's just that, the entire atmosphere/background comes across - too me (and again, YMMV, and if it does, bless you. Again: to each their own) as an in-character, in-game version of. . .a certain type. A certain grating, insufferable type.
His background is annoying, his behavior is annoying, his personality is annoying, he's...annoying. Though, again, if done correctly, which I certainly admit people can do, he wouldn't be. And that role certainly needs a patron in Golarion. After all, there are patrons for all kinds of things, including all kinds of things that on any ordinal scale are worse than Cayden Cailean (just perhaps not as gratingly annoying. He's the personification of that). It's just that, again to me, it makes it "if the Starstone accepted that guy, then the Starstone Challenge isn't a test worth participating in."
| 17 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't play up the drunken aspect, and view that as more part of his legend and the "hype" that surrounds him.
I think in life he was a very courageous man, and a very strong person both physically but in ego. Not that he was necessarily vain, but self-determined and self-assured. That also plays into his strong sense of individuality and freedom which he views as virtues all creatures deserve and should seek.
Like a nicer version of Corwin of Amber, Cayden just doesn't give up and can't be brought down. More of a Sampson than a Hercules.
I picture him as having a sense of humor, but an comedic aspects of his depiction are just legend and exaggeration.
He never blundered into the Cathedral. Someone told he couldn't, that he didn't have what it took, and after a good long drink—he demonstrated they were wrong.
Like John Locke in a wheelchair in Australia. Cayden roars, "Don't tell me what I can't do!"
And the Universe was made to listen.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
He kinda reminds me of Jack Sparrow from Pirates of the Caribbean, but he probably drinks less than Jack, and is farther along the good alignment.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't play up the drunken aspect, and view that as more part of his legend and the "hype" that surrounds him.
I think in life he was a very courageous man, and a very strong person both physically but in ego. Not that he was necessarily vain, but self-determined and self-assured. That also plays into his strong sense of individuality and freedom which he views as virtues all creatures deserve and should seek.
<snippity-snip-snip>
I just wanted to say I liked your "take" on him.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I like to think of Cayden Cailean as a mischievous badger.
...or maybe as a figure skater. He wears like a white outfit and He does interpretive ice dances of my life's journey.
I also like to think of Cayden Cailean like with giant eagles wings and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!
But mostly I like to picture Cayden Cailean in a tuxedo T-Shirt because it says I want to be formal, but I'm here to party.
|
|
| 12 people marked this as a favorite. |
He kinda reminds me of Jack Sparrow from Pirates of the Caribbean, but he probably drinks less than Jack, and is farther along the good alignment.
I actually thought of him as Captain Malcolm Reynolds promoted to godhood (and yes, Thais is Inara, and he argues with her the same way), with more of his humorous aspects played up rather then his brooding part.
| 9 people marked this as a favorite. |
He kinda reminds me of Jack Sparrow from Pirates of the Caribbean, but he probably drinks less than Jack, and is farther along the good alignment.I actually thought of him as Captain Malcolm Reynolds promoted to godhood (and yes, Thais is Inara, and he argues with her the same way), with more of his humorous aspects played up rather then his brooding part.
Aside to Jayne in 'Our Mrs Reynolds': "How drunk did I get last night?"
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
He kinda reminds me of Jack Sparrow from Pirates of the Caribbean, but he probably drinks less than Jack, and is farther along the good alignment.I actually thought of him as Captain Malcolm Reynolds promoted to godhood (and yes, Thais is Inara, and he argues with her the same way), with more of his humorous aspects played up rather then his brooding part.
This take....is so perfect. Head cannon accepted.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What I always wonder is why other powerful outsiders don't try the starstone? I mean it seems like something Beelzebub might pull in an effort to match Asmodeus in power, considering it grants you a 5th domain and full divinity.
With rare exceptions, as I recall on the canon on Absalom and the Star Stone, those who fail the Test of the Starstone perish. Also, Beelzebub may worry about the price of success as much as failure -- who will he have as an ally? Is Asmodeus so powerful that Beelzebub will have to flee? Or would he worry that Asmodeus is letting him take the test to lure him to his destruction. (Paranoia is perhaps justified in Hell, but it is also a permanent state of mind for its inhabitants. Everyone in Hell IS scheming.)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Maybe since it was set up by the god of humanity, the Starstone only works on humans? Or mortals, at least.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The Starstone is itself the ultimate McGuffin. Sure the faithful preach of Cayden's ascention, and sure he's a god, but it's not clear how he passed the Test.(Note, the below are conspiracy theories and not sourced in anyway)
Also note that the tests once in the cathedral supposedly change based on who is attempting to reach the stone.
Maybe he cheated somehow and found a way to influence what tests show up internally?
I've got it! The Starstone is the Kobyashi Maru test, and Cayden Cailean is really Captain Kirk!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are easier ways to become a god. In Chinese mythology, Chang O became the goddess/fairy of the moon because someone gave her husband the peach/pill of immortality, he put it under his pillow, she found it and ate it, not knowing what it was.
Compared with that, Cayden wandering drunk into the Cathedral of the Starstone and getting lucky enough to get the tests he could pass? Considerably more difficult.
In both cases, however, you have people who become gods because they got lucky.
And that's fine. As above, so below. There are some people who simply luck out.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Also note that the tests once in the cathedral supposedly change based on who is attempting to reach the stone.
Maybe he just got tests he was suited for.
I like this one, and I could imagine that the Starstone determines the prospective deities portfolio from it's character and personality, which in turn determines the individual test. That would also mean that there could be no more Cayden, since that portfolio is taken.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I look at Cayden as the god of swashbuckers and rogues. Oh and Rattrap.
Though his other divine concerns are flexible in interpretation, he is as hard as a nail when it comes to a
person’s right to freedom. Before the Test, he had been known to leave in the middle of mercenary jobs when he found out his employer was a tyrant or using him to bring harm to decent folk. This gave him a somewhat unreliable reputation, but he refused to go against his own beliefs for the sake of mere coin. Cayden believes that there is no justice in a law that oppresses one man to benefit another.
I think Cayden is seen as chaotic, because he is a promoter of freedom. This is the guy who would fight for the right to organize employees, then turn around and fight just as hard to keep an open shop. This is the guy who would fight to let two people be happy together, but would at hte same time advise two unhappy spouces to disolve their marriage and walk away. I think it is easier to see him 'just' as the drunk god, because freedom is so hard to quantify.
Blast it, now I want to make an inquisitor of Cayden who's abstains.
I am conflicted about Cayden, to be honest. On one hand, the things he represents appeal to me on a personal level in many ways and he stands out in the pantheon he was introduced in. On the other hand, I've never had that much interest in playing a character that worships him, and him standing out is as much a bad thing as it is a good one. I don't exactly hate him, but I just don't know what to make of him most of the time. Maybe he just lacks a strong focus in my mind. Sure, he can rebel against tyranny, but not in the same way Milani does. sure, he can fight for sport or just the hell of it, but those are things Kurgess and Gorum do as well.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't play up the drunken aspect, and view that as more part of his legend and the "hype" that surrounds him.
I think in life he was a very courageous man, and a very strong person both physically but in ego. Not that he was necessarily vain, but self-determined and self-assured. That also plays into his strong sense of individuality and freedom which he views as virtues all creatures deserve and should seek.
Like a nicer version of Corwin of Amber, Cayden just doesn't give up and can't be brought down. More of a Sampson than a Hercules.
I picture him as having a sense of humor, but an comedic aspects of his depiction are just legend and exaggeration.
He never blundered into the Cathedral. Someone told he couldn't, that he didn't have what it took, and after a good long drink—he demonstrated they were wrong.
Like John Locke in a wheelchair in Australia. Cayden roars, "Don't tell me what I can't do!"
And the Universe was made to listen.
Pretty much totally this.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Like a nicer version of Corwin of Amber, Cayden just doesn't give up and can't be brought down. More of a Sampson than a Hercules.
Maybe more like Gerard, then. :)
Frankly, though, if Cayden could accomplish drunk what most people can't accomplish sober-
- Just imagine what he could do if he got back on the wagon. O_o
(That's a pretty solid testimony to his worthiness, right there. When do we get the Cayden/Irori Team-Up?)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Even if people don't care for my interpretation, or they just like their own or another better—I think the important takeaway from this is that Sean's WONDERFUL articles are not necessarily 100% factual accounts.
They have elements of perception and speculation in them. Open ended questions. They're not deliberately disingenuous either—like when he tells us what a god likes and dislikes. That is specific information and meant to be taken at face value. But not everything we're told about the gods is all that specific.
History is interwoven with myth and legend.
The Gods also change a little. They are not static. Many gods we know today were slightly different during the Azlanti civilization, like Abadar. We know this from their depiction in the ruins of Savith-Yhe.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Considering what the Starstone is, and how Nethys ascended, ascension seems to be less about venerated, meritorious sainthood and more about lethal, magical irradiation with people ready to worship what happens when you leave your physical remains behind.
From a fantasy point of view, only four people in history have ascended to godhood in a mysterious, secret way that changes depending who attempts it; up to hundreds of hopefuls attempt it each day (and considering the Starstone Cathedral doesn't have an exhibit on Razmir,the Pathfinder Society's probably wise to him in general).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
From a fantasy point of view, only four people in history have ascended to godhood in a mysterious, secret way that changes depending who attempts it;
Three. According to JJ, Aroden did not in fact use the Starstone to ascend, although raising it and creating the Isle of Kortos and Absalom was somehow part of his ascension.
|
|
If you've got a cayden cailean problem it's that you don't yet love him.
(Cayden shows up keg slung over his shoulder.)
Drunken God: Does this man have a problem?
Cleric of Cayden: He's not drunk yet.
Drunken God: GREAT SCOTT! (Turns him upside down like a frat)
Actually, the frat thing is kinda how I think of Cayden. The dudebro god.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Maybe there's more to being a god then passing the entrance exam and having really good letters of recommendation...
Cayden serves multiple roles, including fitting into a fool-type archetype and serving as inspiration to others that their worthiness is not measured by the standards of mortals. Perhaps Cayden possessed some unknown quality that was overshadowed by the tales of his drunken heodinism, something that only the Starstone could identify, and that is what allowed him to become a god. Or perhaps those very qualities, the willingness to embrace and transcend his vices, are what allowed him to ascend.
This is where I lean on the matter, especially the idea of Cayden as a sort of "divine Fool"-type figure.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Though, as a DM, his existence began to bug me, as it really took away from the nature of godhood. The starstone itself, I'm not too pleased in, because it's existence means that any worthy enough mortal could become a god, which rubs me the wrong way, since my feeling is that you shouldn't be able to just "become" a god. Even the most powerful and worthy of mortals should still just be a really powerful and worthy mortal. But even with the existence of something like the starstone, I can accept someone like Aroden assuming godhood; it makes some deal of sense, in a sort of way. But Cayden's ascension breaks the concept for me. It seems really hard to believe that there really is much of value behind godhood if a guy can stumble in drunk and pass the test of the starstone. It kind of feels like the Monty Python bit from Holy Grail: "Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!."
But the career path of: peasant - hero - deity has been part of D&D for a very long time. If you were writing a setting that supported 'D&D-style adventures' (because Pathfinder isn't D&D, no sir! ;) ) wouldn't you set in stone (hoho) the means by which that happened?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've actually always liked Cayden and how he became a god. There are myths and stories in which someone became a god accidentally or through what others deem foolish or reckless behavior. THAT, and considering that he ascended to be a god of drunkenness and reckless courage, how else is he supposed to get his start in divinity. That, and we have no idea what aspect the Starstone found so outstanding. Perhaps Cayden was chosen because he was a paragon of drunkenness, and thus ascended to godhood based on that fact.
Honestly, it doesn't bug me. The idea of someone becoming a god through maguffic has existed since...well...since mankind has existed. And there are plenty of humorous gods whose stories of divinity are...questionable to say the least. So really, Cayden doesn't strike me as so unusual and annoying. i actually like him as a god. He's very down to earth, and he seems like the most likely to bring his avatar onto the campaign world.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
One thing a lot of people seem to forget, at least in my opinion, is that Cayden Cailean may be a god of alcohol and drunkenness, but that doesn't mean he swaggers and slurs like Captain Jack Sparrow, constantly hammered out of his mind. He and his followers enjoy alcohol, but DO practice moderation. Drinking with friends is fun. Drinking and starting a friendly brawl is fun. Drinking until you puke or black out and could possibly die of alcohol poisoning is NOT fun.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Random thought- probably wildly inaccurate, but interesting speculation- what if Cayden wasn't really the drunkard people thought he was, but that was just his fighting style? Golarion's version of Zui Quan?
I've always thought the test of the Starstone, is first you have to find a niche no other god has, for Caydean this was drunk in moderation, free will, etc. that no other god had a grasp on.
In other words you have to have a portfolio that makes you unique.
Secondly you have to be skilled in what you profess your portfolio/alignment/domains etc. are too be.
Reason so many people fail is they aren't as skilled as they think they are and get in over their heads. Or someone already has that divine power you seek.