I can't find this in the rules, but fortunately, it's a simple one. Like the title says, what kind of action is it to slide a backpack off and drop it?
I'm not aware of any rules to equip/unequip backpacks. Maybe someone will come in here and point us to them.
Failing that, it's the same action as dropping anything else that doesn't have specific rules: a free action.
Now, we could say that dropping an item in your hand is much easier than getting out of a backpack strapped to your body, and that's true. But the game doesn't model that specifically. So, gamistly, it's a free action. But realistically, it should be more than that so I could easily see a DM making it a move action (about the same as opening a door, for example).
Thanks. My guy for tonight is a few pounds over his light load, and is DEX-based, so sluffing off a few pounds before a fight probably going to be useful.
I doubt there's a specific rule for it, but usually backpacks are worn in such a way that they don't slide off easily. So my "vote" (for whatever that is worth) would be for a Standard Action.
I would probably rule that to remove the back pack is a move action. I imagine that the back pack isn't just loosely hanging about but instead has the strap that goes around the chest with a buckle, and is more like a camping or hiking back pack.
Alternatively, if you can afford it, you should just purchase a bag of holding.
I would probably rule that to remove the back pack is a move action. I imagine that the back pack isn't just loosely hanging about but instead has the strap that goes around the chest with a buckle, and is more like a camping or hiking back pack.
Alternatively, if you can afford it, you should just purchase a bag of holding.
First level, brand-spanking-new PCs. That won't be happening for a while. :)
I agree it is more like a camping backpack. Heck, they hold 2 cubic feet(56.66 liters) of stuff. My vote would be move action to unequip, free action to drop.
Here is some examples of modern backpacks around that size:
http://www.rei.com/search?cat=4500001_Backpacks&jxGear+capacity+%28L%29 =50^59.99&hist=cat%2C4500001_Backpacks%3ABackpacks^jxGear+capacity+%28L %29%2C50~59.99&range=jxGear+capacity+%28L%29
Since this is in the Rules Question I will answer with Raw. From the Combat Section of the Rules Found Here on the chart if you scroll down
Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action.
So Under that Assumption Dropping a Backpack Is a Free Action the same as dropping a weapon or any other item. The only thing that has Specific rules is removing armor that takes more time.
It could also qualify as "Manipulate an Object." Undoing buckles, removing straps, etc. Which would make it a move action.
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You could get a sack and keep anything you don't absolutely need for a fight in there. Carry it with one hand, and slung over your shoulder. When a fight breaks out drop it as a free action. This way, if you happen to find any potions or what not, they can stay on your person (in your backpack) so you can get to them when necessary.
EDIT: You may also want to look at picking up a Masterwork Backpack from the APG if you can afford it.
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I'd say free action.
If you want it to be particularly "realistic", I would say it like this:
Drop Backpack: Requires a move action. If nothing is held in either hand, or any such items are dropped at the same time, it can be done as a free action.
Taking off modern backpacks is pretty quick too, particularly if you just drop it wherever. Some larger packs that have both a hip belt and chest strap take more than a second, but even then I wouldn't put it past a move action.
I know a little bit about the history of backpacks, things like hip belts and chest straps didn't show up until quite recently, maybe 80-90 years ago. The French fur traders for example used heavy, large packs that just had two should straps. You can see an example here. You can't see the front, but trust me (I've been using these kind of packs for nearly 30 years), there is no chest strap or hip belt on it. They are not hard to shrug off, even though there can easily be 40-80 lbs in there.
Now, that is a pack from a specific region and period, and for a specific purpose (they were also loaded into canoes for long parts of the trip), but they were still carried a long ways on foot and if the Europeans had figured out the ergonomics of backpacks, I think it's safe to assume they'd have used that technology on these packs.
If you want to be extreme, a Move Action, but I think a Free Action is also very believable and more appropriate for the game. The character also has to be able to return to that square to pick up the pack after the fight, if they're chased off, they lose everything in their pack.
I think removing a normal backpack is more than a move action, while you could probably remove a masterwork backpack as a move action. For comparison, the item description for an Adventurer's Sash states that it "can be freed with a sharp tug in an emergency as a move action."
It could also qualify as "Manipulate an Object." Undoing buckles, removing straps, etc. Which would make it a move action.the Raw is clear
Moving or manipulating an item is usually a move action.
This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action, along with whether they incur an attack of opportunity, are given in Table: Actions in Combat
Has nothing to do with dropping an object
Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action.
Since this is in the Rules Question Forum Raw is the only way to go anything else is a house rule.
Dropping a backpack or weapon or any other item, be it a Giant Rock or pebble, is a Free action (besides shield being a move action as stated, and armor which takes multiple rounds or minutes depending on type.)
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"Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action."
This implies an item in your hand, methinks.
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It could also qualify as "Manipulate an Object." Undoing buckles, removing straps, etc. Which would make it a move action.the Raw is clearMoving or manipulating an item is usually a move action.
This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action, along with whether they incur an attack of opportunity, are given in Table: Actions in Combat
Has nothing to do with dropping an object
Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action.
Since this is in the Rules Question Forum Raw is the only way to go anything else is a house rule.
Dropping a backpack or weapon or any other item, be it a Giant Rock or pebble, is a Free action (besides shield being a move action as stated, and armor which takes multiple rounds or minutes depending on type.)
I think the idea is you cannot drop something tied to you like a backpack so first you need to manipulate the latch to drop it.
Dropping a backpack or weapon or any other item, be it a Giant Rock or pebble, is a Free action (besides shield being a move action as stated, and armor which takes multiple rounds or minutes depending on type.)
Then I guess stripping naked is also a free action. Backpacks are worn, and clothes are worn. The same rules should apply to both, right?
Dropping something as a free action assumes it is already in your hand. All you have to do is let go. If you have to un-equip something (such as removing a backpack from your back), it should take longer.
Then I guess stripping naked is also a free action. Backpacks are worn, and clothes are worn. The same rules should apply to both, right?
Dropping something as a free action assumes it is already in your hand. All you have to do is let go. If you have to un-equip something (such as removing a backpack from your back), it should take longer.
Rules as Written, yes stripping naked is a free action (as long as its just clothes not armor), there is no such thing as equipping a backpack, or clothes, you are either carrying it or not. if you are carrying it then you can drop it as a free action (as long as specific doesn't trump general)
If the Rule is written poorly by all means house rule it, but this was a question asked in the rules forum so I tend to side with the strictest RAW reading.
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Rules as Written, yes stripping naked is a free action (as long as its just clothes not armor), there is no such thing as equipping a backpack, or clothes, you are either carrying it or not. if you are carrying it then you can drop it as a free action (as long as specific doesn't trump general)
If the Rule is written poorly by all means house rule it, but this was a question asked in the rules forum so I tend to side with the strictest RAW reading.
To be completely pedantic, you never wear your clothes. You simply list them on the character sheet.
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Personally, I would say make it a move action to remove the backpack, free action to drop it. Much like donning or removing the armored coat. The motions to remove a backpack would be roughly analogous to removing a heavy coat, so a move action makes sense. I can see justifying a standard action, but that seems like it might unnecessarily penalize the player. Another move action to set it down carefully if you're worried about breaking anything inside, though, or free action to just drop it.
It's really not that hard to take of a backpack, so long as it isn't strapped around the waist. It only takes a small readjustment of the shoulders to let it slide right off. Free/Swift is my vote, more if it's strapped around the waist.
It's really not that hard to take of a backpack, so long as it isn't strapped around the waist. It only takes a small readjustment of the shoulders to let it slide right off. Free/Swift is my vote, more if it's strapped around the waist.
Remember that most characters will be carrying objects in their hands of one sort or another... weapons or shields, primarily... so simply shrugging a backpack off their shoulders becomes more difficult, as they either have to sheath or juggle the carried objects from one hand to another before they can drop the backpack. To me, that still makes it at least a move action, but as with anything, if I ain't the game-master, it ain't my call to make. :)
The first thing my characters almost always buy is a handy haversack. As a bonus, you can grab anything you need in combat easy :)
If the backback counts as a "stored object" its a move action to retrieve that provokes AoO and free to drop. :p
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To be completely pedantic, you never wear your clothes. You simply list them on the character sheet.Rules as Written, yes stripping naked is a free action (as long as its just clothes not armor), there is no such thing as equipping a backpack, or clothes, you are either carrying it or not. if you are carrying it then you can drop it as a free action (as long as specific doesn't trump general)
If the Rule is written poorly by all means house rule it, but this was a question asked in the rules forum so I tend to side with the strictest RAW reading.
This conversation is starting to remind me of this comic.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I could swear that somewhere the "drop an item" free action used the phrase "dropping a held item", but I can't seem to find it.
In any case, the closest comparison (IMO) seems to be shields:
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can ready or drop a shield as a free action combined with a regular move.
Dropping a carried (but not worn) shield is a free action.
(Bolding mine.)
Even though the move action includes the word "drop", it doesn't count as the "drop an item" action unless the shield is merely being carried. The "drop a shield" action actually means to unstrap it from your arm as a move action. Thus, just because we chose to phrase the original question as "drop a backpack" instead of "take off a backpack" doesn't automatically make it the "drop an item" action.
Technically the action to remove a backpack is not explicitly defined, but I think it's pretty clear that removing it is a move action (via "manipulate an object" as well as by the precedent set with shields, above) while dropping a carried but not worn backpack is a free action (by precedent set by shields, above).
It could also qualify as "Manipulate an Object." Undoing buckles, removing straps, etc. Which would make it a move action.
I agree with this one.
Consider also, I'd say it takes the same amount of time as drawing a weapon or retrieving an item, which are also move actions. Part of determining what kind of action is what has to do with how much time it takes. Move actions take slightly less time, technically, than Standard (and full round obviously take more time than Standard), which is why you can only ever do one Standard per turn, but a move and a standard or two move. I'd say removing a backpack takes more time than a free action because you are doing more than simply dropping something (to me, the drop an item free action is dropping an object already in hand; I would not consider a backpack in hand). But it is not so complicated as a Standard--it is not equivalent to the expertise required to cast a spell or activate an ability or item or use a weapon with competence.
I could swear that somewhere the "drop an item" free action used the phrase "dropping a held item", but I can't seem to find it.
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action. If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can ready or drop a shield as a free action combined with a regular move.
Dropping a carried (but not worn) shield is a free action.
(Bolding mine.)
Your bold Proves my point even more using a different object (Shield), A backpack is carried, just like a shield is carried when not strapped to the arm and in USE (granting a AC bonus). Dropping a carried Item be it shield(when not in use) or a backpack ( also not in use unless your digging around in it looking for something which is retrieving a stored Item action) is a Free action
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It's a Move Action. Dropping an item implies it's held in your hand(s). If you have a backpack strapped to your back you don't "drop" it, you "remove" it.
Sheathing a weapon is a Move Action. Surely removing a backpack takes at least that long..
But everyone is different... as long as your table is cool with it, do what you like.
Just my 2 cp ;)
I would make it a standard action to remove a backpack. I can easily envisage somebody moving whilst removing their backpack, but cannot envision somebody firing a bow, engaging in melee or casting a spell whilst doing so.
I would also allow the backpack to be modified with the craft (needlework) skill (or similar) so that the backpack's webbing is rigged to be a quick release item. I would also allow masterwork backpacks to be bought as quick release items. Removing a quick release backpack would be a swift action.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I would make it a standard action to remove a backpack. I can easily envisage somebody moving whilst removing their backpack, but cannot envision somebody firing a bow, engaging in melee or casting a spell whilst doing so.
You make it sound like a character's move action and standard action happen at the same time. Can I attack "while" putting my weapon away? Can I drink a potion "while" I'm pulling it out of my pocket?
I would make it a standard action to remove a backpack. I can easily envisage somebody moving whilst removing their backpack, but cannot envision somebody firing a bow, engaging in melee or casting a spell whilst doing so.You make it sound like a character's move action and standard action happen at the same time. Can I attack "while" putting my weapon away? Can I drink a potion "while" I'm pulling it out of my pocket?
I believe every round is 6 seconds of concurrent activity and the sequential order of play is a gameplay convenience. If I was taking off a backpack during as 6 second period then the range of other actions I could perform would be limited. Drawing and firing a bow or drawing my sword and attacking someone within the same 6 second period as I am removing my securely worn my backpack represents a challenge to verisimilitude.
This came up recently in my game, and this topic was covered in a previous thread in 2012 (sorry don't know how to link it), and after thinking about it I (as the GM) arrived at this house rule:
Dropping a backpack is a Move action for a standard backpack, and a Swift action for a Masterwork backpack.
Thanks for everyone who provided thoughtful responses above. :)
Speaking as a long-time backpacker and agreeing with IronTruth that old-school backpacks did not have chest or waist straps:
- If your hands are empty, it's at worst a swift action. I can lose a shoulders-only backpack in under half a second. It's barely slower than dropping an item from my hand.
- If you're carrying things in your hands that you don't want to drop, it's absolutely a move action or more. Suddenly you can't just let those straps drop, and manipulation of the objects in your hands is required.
So that's how I'd house rule it. RAW I'd say it falls in line with the shield that is "strapped to you" and therefore always a move action.