Need an example of really good post-apocalyptic sci-fi


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I got the (awesome!) job of designing an inter desciplanary course for children aged around 15, which will be taught through science fiction. I am building the course such that every class (there will be 20 classes total, each of them 90 minutes long) will discuss a theme of science fiction, along with the philosophical, social, and scientific qouestions the theme is concerned with. In addition, each of the classes will observe the theme through a good science fiction story that deals with it.

So for example, the class on "artificial intelligence" is planned to be a discussion about what a machine is, and where the borders between a machine and a human cross, especialy if a machine could be built that will be able to behave exactly like a human. In addition I will try to integrate more scientific themes into the lesson by teaching a turing machine is, and show the evolution of computers in the past decades.
To demonstrate the theme of super advanced artificial intelligence, I will of course be using a story of "I, robot".

So another theme that I want to desribe is post apocalyptic stories. The themes are pretty clear - how the impact of a technological advancement would bring the end of society as it is today and put humankind in a dire situation where the very survival of the species is in question. However, I am trying to find a really good story to showcase that theme. So far, the only two stories I am capable of thinking of are "Matrix" and "Planet of the Apes", but somehow I feel both of them are really not quite what I'm looking for, mainly because they both have a strong theme of humans being enslaved by formerly inferior groups (monkies or machines).

Can any of you people think of a more spot-on example of a science fiction post apocalypse story?

Thanks!


I like Mad Max (Road Warrior), and the second and third installments fit your bill.

Not sure your kids would be cool with those films though, a bit adult in nature.

Otherwise you get all Terminator 'Humans v Skynet'.


Mad Max films are definitely something to look into, probably being the default show that most of my friends and family (multiple generations) would mention off the top of our heads. Given the age/era of the movie and that we're talking 15 year olds I don't think the 'adult subject' is too much out of the realm they've been exposed to with present day media.

Resident Evil films may fit the bill (science gone wrong bringing around near extinction of humanity).

Dark City could possibly be something to look into.

12 Monkeys possibly?

I want to say another older movie was Millenium, pollution became so bad the future started 'stealing' people from the past right before they died in attempt to repopulate the future.

EDIT:
The prequel of the Planet of the Apes (Rise of the Planet of the Apes?) would probably be more appropriate, you get a feel for the technology being implemented and the threat it becomes.


Skylancer4 wrote:

Given the age/era of the movie and that we're talking 15 year olds I don't think the 'adult subject' is too much out of the realm they've been exposed to with present day media.

I agree, but erred on the side of caution - never know how conservative some folk are :)


Shifty wrote:
Skylancer4 wrote:

Given the age/era of the movie and that we're talking 15 year olds I don't think the 'adult subject' is too much out of the realm they've been exposed to with present day media.

I agree, but erred on the side of caution - never know how conservative some folk are :)

I completely understand but given the movie is probably spot on with what they are looking for, wouldn't want the OP to dismiss it :)

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I somehow never even heard of Mad Max, but I'll look into it. Thanks!


A couple of books that come to mind:

Children of the Dust, by Louise Lawrence covers 3 generations during and after a nuclear holocaust.

Invitation to the Game by Monica Hughes depicts a world where machines have taken over so many jobs that most people are unemployed and the only real option for more than minimal survival is colonising other planets.

There are others, but from what I remember, they are as much natural disaster as technological. I can list them if you want?


How about Day of the Triffids?


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A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ by Walter M. Miller Jnr. should be the first stop. It's a post-nuclear apocalyptic novel following a group of monks trying to preserve knowledge through the centuries it takes mankind to rise up again.

THE POSTMAN by David Brin is another excellent novel, in which again civilisation has been wrecked by a nuclear apocalypse. One guy finds a wrecked mail van and decides to deliver the mail found inside, and inadvertently ends up creating a new communications network between the scattered towns and rebuilding cities. Avoid the horrendous film version (starring Kevin Costner) like the plague, however.

THE ROAD by Cormac MacCarthy is a less hopeful, more realistic take on the same ideas, though in this case the goal is the simple survival of a man and his son after the death of the man's wife and the (non-specific) destruction of humanity. The film version is also excellent. However, the non-specific nature of the catastrophe might not fit what you are looking for.

BLOOD MUSIC by Greg Bear may be a closer match. A scientist creates a form of intelligent supervirus in which cells can work together to survive. The cells decide that their survival superscedes the important of humanity's survival, and the entire biosphere of the planet is transformed to provide them with a better environment (whilst also dooming us to extinction). CHILDHOOD'S END by Arthur C. Clarke is a slightly more straightforward, simpler exploration of the same idea, when a bunch of aliens show up to guide us through the next stage of evolution into a posthuman superintelligence.

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Werthead wrote:

A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ by Walter M. Miller Jnr. should be the first stop. It's a post-nuclear apocalyptic novel following a group of monks trying to preserve knowledge through the centuries it takes mankind to rise up again.

THE POSTMAN by David Brin is another excellent novel, in which again civilisation has been wrecked by a nuclear apocalypse. One guy finds a wrecked mail van and decides to deliver the mail found inside, and inadvertently ends up creating a new communications network between the scattered towns and rebuilding cities. Avoid the horrendous film version (starring Kevin Costner) like the plague, however.

THE ROAD by Cormac MacCarthy is a less hopeful, more realistic take on the same ideas, though in this case the goal is the simple survival of a man and his son after the death of the man's wife and the (non-specific) destruction of humanity. The film version is also excellent. However, the non-specific nature of the catastrophe might not fit what you are looking for.

BLOOD MUSIC by Greg Bear may be a closer match. A scientist creates a form of intelligent supervirus in which cells can work together to survive. The cells decide that their survival superscedes the important of humanity's survival, and the entire biosphere of the planet is transformed to provide them with a better environment (whilst also dooming us to extinction). CHILDHOOD'S END by Arthur C. Clarke is a slightly more straightforward, simpler exploration of the same idea, when a bunch of aliens show up to guide us through the next stage of evolution into a posthuman superintelligence.

Thanks! this was *exactly* what I was looking for!


I cant believe no one mentioned Blade Runner yet. Or the book of it Do androids dream of electric sheep.

The movie is a deeply philosophical work that question the morality of creating artificial life only to dictate upon it what it has to be and wether or not a machine capable of creating memory will have an Identity. If it has an Identity, isnt it akin to slavery to impose what it does with its "life". If it has an Identity, can it love? And other themes

The book has deeper themes, a good review is here


I second The Postman by David Brin. Where much post-apocalyptic fiction is very cynical, The Postman is much more optimistic. Most of the "after the bomb" stories, especially from the '80s, degrades into some kind of extemist fantasy where the heroes re-build civilization without all the "weakness" found in the pre-bomb society, The Postman embraces many of the values our post-Enlightenment society holds dear.

I actually enjoyed the movie, as it holds true to the tone of the book. It is not a great movie, but it was hardly a disaster. Even David Brin likes it.

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-postman-re-appraisal-and-readers. html


Book of Eli is a good flick for that.


Canticle for Leibowitz was brilliant.
I'm the person who didn't like The Postman. Not sure why. Everyone says it's really good though.


I suggest the book Damnation Alley By Roger Zelanzy.

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The Deathlands our Outlanders series have a lot of good post-apocalyptic sci-fi.

DEATHLANDS:
: On the morning of January 20, 2001 the climax of the Cold War set the post-apocalyptic stage for the series. The end game began with a pre-emptive strike on Washington. Underground nuclear bombs were detonated from within the basement of the Soviet embassy, by an elite group of Spetsnaz operatives, destroying the central command structure and political system of the United States. For an indefinite period of time a nuclear exchange between the United States and the Soviet Union devastated both countries and subsequently the entire planet (but little details are known outside both countries). All manner of genetic contagions were released infecting the survivors of the firestorm with horrible illnesses. The remaining survivors lived harshly during a time of prolonged nuclear winter known as 'Sky Dark'. The geography, climate, and ecosystems of the world had changed dramatically. What was left of the United States came to be known as the Deathlands.
100 years later civilization begins again: brutal, short lived, morally confused and crazed from mutation. Between the many hot spots are small plague pits ruled by power hungry individuals who have no limits in order to establish their rule and expand their influence. These individuals are known as the Barons. Their rabble pits are known as Villes and Baronies. Civilization unknowingly resembles the Dark Ages. Trading resumes between the villes: Jack (a regional currency), Jolt (a hallucinogenic mixture of Mescaline and Heroin) and slaves are the primary forms of currency. Life is a strange mixture of ancient history and limited technology that is scrapped from the 20th century. Military technology is the most prized possession of all; success is often measured by the number of bullets he or she possesses. A man named Ryan Cawdor leads a group of companions across the deathlands. Ryan has extremely secret knowledge of the 20th century. The understanding of hidden underground complexes, known as redoubts, that contains Teleportation technology. He and this companions guard this knowledge with their lives. The technology is called MAT-TRANS.
Each novel usually begins with the companions arriving at a frequently unknown redoubt by MAT-TRANS. If the situation is impossible or hostile the companions can use the "last destination" feature of the transporter to return to the sending location. If the redoubt is unknown then the companions usually explore, looking for weapons and supplies which they rarely find. Sometimes they are lucky and find a working shower or stored food which they always utilize or take. The story picks up speed once the characters leave the redoubt and explore the surrounding countryside. Frequently the companions are captured or forced into a confrontation with the local barons. Each novel reveals a little of the characters' history, motivations and the regional location where they arrived.

OUTLANDERS:
: Two hundred years after a nuclear holocaust devastated the Earth, the chaos and barbarism as depicted in the Deathlands series gave way to a centralized, despotic government ruled by nine mysterious barons.
Material taken from redoubts, secret preholocaust military installations with stores of weapons and the home of the gateways, matter-transfer devices, supplied the baronial rule in what was known as the “Program of Unification.”
Rearmed from redoubt stockpiles, the barons consolidated their power and reclaimed very advanced technology created two centuries before by the so-called “Totality Concept”.
Their power bolstered by the invisible authority known only to an elite few as the Archons extended beyond the fortified city-states into what came to be called the Outlands. There, the rootstock of humanity survived, eking out an existence in hellzones and hounded by black-armored Magistrates, the enforcers of the barons’ laws.
When Cobaltville Magistrates Kane and Grant came across a piece of misplaced technology and Brigid Baptiste, an archivist began an investigation on their behalf, they found themselves branded as sedititionists, their citizenship stripped from them and they were reclassified as Outlanders.

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Fangdelicious wrote:

The Deathlands our Outlanders series have a lot of good post-apocalyptic sci-fi.

** spoiler omitted **...

looks like most books in Deathlands are unavilable for kindle... is "chrono spasm" a good entry point to the series?


There's a table-top RPG called Atomic Highway that is post-apocalyptic.

Rifts is another RPG example.

Megadeth's music video of A Tout Le Monde featuring Cristina Scabbia has a very post-apocalyptic setting, but it may not help with what you're looking for.

Oh, and of course, the Fallout video game series.


John Joseph Adams did a recent Anthology of post-apocalypse short stories called Wastelands (I think).

I have not read it, but I would bet there is something in their that might be good for a class.

Dark Archive

Have to agree, the Postman by Brin is a good book.
Also you might look into Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Its about a comet hitting the Earth and all the problems and successes that happen after.
Another good dualogy, IF you can find it is the Integral Trees and the Smoke Ring, also by Larry Niven. It takes place in a very Sci-Fi environment and is about the descendants of a group of astronauts that crash there with no way to leave. Very good read. Tho it may not quite fit the read your looking for.
Deathlands and Outlanders are Ok if you read the first few of each series, after that they tend to become "pulp" novels. Go someplace, solve problem, move on, rinse, repeat. I really liked them when i first started to read them, but 20 some (or more ) books later ......
Depending on how you view it, zombies ending the world might fit your bill, The book, Feed by Mira Grant is really well done, and the zombification is caused by researchers into Biotech. The subsequent novels Deadline and Blackout are also great.(My 14 year old daughter read them and loved them.)
On another note the animated movie 9, is also post apocalyptic, where humans are already gone.
Know more but can't think of them at the moment.
good luck, sounds really interesting.


To add a few obvious ones, King's The Stand, Matheson's I Am Legend, A Boy and His Dog by Ellison, Earth Abides by Stewart, Children of Men by PD James, Swan's Song by McCammon, Blindness by Saramago, Alas, Babylon by Pat Frank, Roadside Picnic (inspired the Stalker movie) ...

Also Liege-Killer by Christopher Hinz, The Day of the Triffids by John Wyndham, Engine Summer by John Crowley.


On the second one, if a TV series is on the table (since movies have been thrown out), Jeremiah immediately springs to mind.

As for books for the first, to throw out a non obvious one The Homecoming Saga by Orson Scott Card. Though it's a bit...religion-y.

Actually, scratch that. The sequels to Ender's Game (Speaker for the Dead and so on) by the same author heavily involve Jane, the artificial intelligence, and her search for humanity and thoughts on "What is existence" and such.

That might be perfect for what you're looking for, especially since you're teaching about the Turing Test.

Another advantage is that by age 15 or 16 most children I know of have read Ender's Game already, either by their own volition or as required reading for a science class.


Quote:
I cant believe no one mentioned Blade Runner yet. Or the book of it Do androids dream of electric sheep.

Not post-apocalyptic though. Although if the course the OP is working has a dystopian angle, it'd be a good fit for that.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

I came to recommend "A Canticle for Leibowitz," and I'm pleased to see it's already getting some love. It had probably the most realistic treatment of human nature I've seen in science fiction.


Alas Babylon by Pat Frank

Dated, but good.
Deals with the survivors of a nuclear war making a new life for themselves.

If the students of these classes are supposed to read these stories, wouldn't short stories be better than full length books?


The Tripods Trilogy by John Christopher perhaps?


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And another more recent one - Wool, by Hugh Howey.


Cyborg with Jean Claude Van Damme.

Fender Tremolo FTW

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Alas, Babylon and Canticle for Leibowitz for post-nuclear-apocalypse.

Do NOT miss Neuromancer for AI. Bonus points for being the seminal work of the cyberpunk genre.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Also 2001: A Space Odyssey for AI.


Hardwired by Walter Jon Williams.

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'Cybernetics' by Norbert Wiener is a Textbook which defines Artificial Intelligence as 'Ratiocinatrix' or 'the Reasoning Machine'. That might help with your own understanding.


Lorm Dragonheart wrote:
I suggest the book Damnation Alley By Roger Zelanzy.

+1 to this... it's been years since I read the book, but as I recall it was quite good.

Avoid the ghastly movie version at all costs, however.

Stephen King's The Stand (in both its book and miniseries versions) is probably my favorite post-apocalypse story. Some bits of it might be a bit adult for the classroom though, particularly in the expanded edition of the book.

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The movie version of "The Road" is super bleak. Like soul-crushingly bleak. I wouldn't expose children to it. Heck, I warn all my friends not to watch it!

Scarab Sages

Werthead wrote:
A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ by Walter M. Miller Jnr. should be the first stop. It's a post-nuclear apocalyptic novel following a group of monks trying to preserve knowledge through the centuries it takes mankind to rise up again.

This is an excellent book. I highly recommend it.

For the AI example: THE TWO FACES OF TOMORROW by James P. Hogan is an excellent book.


Canticle For Leibowitz - as other posters mentioned is the best starting point if you're looking for a novel to incorporate into the curriculum.

I will also mention The Chyrsalids by John Wyndham. I personally don't like the novel and didn't care for it when I was a teenager but there are a lot of students that react positvely to this material and its themes.

For my money you may want to track down short stories:

The Winnowing Issac Asimov

I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream Harlan Ellison (this one gets violent and disturbing but depends on the group)

History Lesson Arthur C. Clarke

Martian Chronicles Ray Bradbury (I can't remember the name of it but the story where the death of the Earth is witnessed by the martian colonists, chilling stuff)

If i think of more I'll post em


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How about Wall-E? Robots and the post-apocalypse in a movie made for kids in the first place.

Grand Lodge

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Shifty wrote:

I like Mad Max (Road Warrior), and the second and third installments fit your bill.

The man asked for science fiction presumably with something for thought, not cheap action thrillers.

Postman the book was brilliant. Postman the movie was yet another demonstration of why Kevin Costner should have his wrists slapped with a metal ruler if he ever thinks about doing another science fiction film.

The BBC did a film version of the first two books of "Canticle for Liebowitz"

Most Zombie apocalypse stories and films fail the science part of science fiction in that zombies as presented would be almost as impossible as forty foot tall insects.

It's a bit adult for 15 year olds, but there is also "A Boy And His Dog".


LazarX wrote:
The man asked for science fiction presumably with something for thought, not cheap action thrillers.

Seriously... go have a look at yourself.

Come back when you realise how silly you look making that comment.

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'Out of the Silence' by Erle Cox is Post Apocalyptic Scifi. Granted its Aussie Scifi set post WW1 but its Post Apocalyptic for the Humans and the 'alien' for very different reasons...both of which will be educational for your students. Its also about Racism (as opposed to being racist which is more common in scifi from this period).


Charlie Bell wrote:

Alas, Babylon and Canticle for Leibowitz for post-nuclear-apocalypse.

Do NOT miss Neuromancer for AI. Bonus points for being the seminal work of the cyberpunk genre.

I'm going to have to second the recommendation of Neuromancer as an excellent example of AI based science fiction. The sequels, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive are also brilliant.

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I actually like the world presented in Patrick Swayze's early movie, Steel Dawn. Not to be confused with Red Dawn.
It is a Mad Max-y type of wasteland with some cool lil' twists. Also the fight scenes were pretty good. Swayze kickin' arse is always good.

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You could also draw from some Judge Dredd.....Outside of the mega cities is nothing but wastelands and horribleness.

Scarab Sages

P.D. James - The Children of Men (The movie adaption is also quite good)
The Toorop Trilogy by Maurice G. Dantec

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Shifty wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The man asked for science fiction presumably with something for thought, not cheap action thrillers.

Seriously... go have a look at yourself.

Come back when you realise how silly you look making that comment.

Mad Max is not that good - more a biker movie than anything else. Mad Max 2, on the other hand, is quite good but it's still really an action flick rather than serious science fiction like 2001 or something - like most cinematic science fiction. Very little science fiction in cinema is really as satisfying as reading an SF novel. Can't remember much about Mad Max 3 but it seemed a continuation of Mad Max 2 from what I recall. Was there a 4?


The Foundation Trilogy by Asmimov has some post-apocalyptic stuff. More post-galactic-political-scism-that-caused-society-to-degrade-to-cavemen-whi le-still-having-technology post apocalyptic then post-nuclear or something, but still a good example.

We also have the bonus of it being entirely clean, so no adverse content.

For those reading it, pass over this:
There are hints of an affair later in the book, and someone is accused, jokingly, of being a pedophile, but both of these are literally one-sentence or single paragraph things.

Dark Archive

@ Aubrey
No 4 for the Mad Max series. I liked em, but your right, the first one, (the one actually called Mad Max) takes place during the fall of society and isn't much on the apocalyptic scale. The second one ( the Road Warrior,)has a narrator tell of the apocalypse, and has more of that feel tho it IS more an action flick than good sci-fi. The third (Mad Max :Beyond Thunder Dome) follows the second in the same theme, just a different set of problems. Dated movies, but still good, if you like the type.
@Cobalt
I like Asimov's stuff a lot, but recently tried to read the Foundation series, and found it dry and hard to stay interested. Think maybe adult onset of ADD or something. But it might not be catchy enough for youngsters.
+1 on the Children of Men.
+1 on Steel Dawn as well.
XD


Lord Snow - for your second topic, you might also want to consider dystopian fiction as well as post-apocalyptic.

The key there is that society may yet still be 'functional' but the advent of technological or sociological control creating the oppression element.

1984 is right up there in that respect, as well as Brave New World and a myriad of others.

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Mark Sweetman wrote:


1984 is right up there in that respect, as well as Brave New World...

I was forced to read those books at school, and swore ad oath never to cause such harm to another living being. My experince with them is too traumatic.

Damn, I didn't even finish reading "Brave new world", got to annoyed at the middle of it :P

Anyway, so far, Canticle seems like it will work just fine, but I'm still gonna check out many of the other books mentioned here just for fun :)


Funny that - I read 1984 at high school and thoroughly enjoyed it, especially the dry bits where Orwell went into justifications on war and thought and what not.

Diff'rent strokes and all that.

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