Catfolk can gain claw attacks from feat.
Half-orcs can gain bite attack from feat.
Tengu can get a bite attack from feat/racial trait.
2nd level ranger can take Aspect of the Claws(normally only druids) which grant 1d4 claws.
Can't think of any other. Tieflings may gain claws trough variant ability described in Blood of Fiends.
I think the helm is called the helm of the mammothlord
There is also a ring...rat something... that gives a bite attack. I know there is a cloak that give secondary tentacle attacks too.
You can also gain a bite from traits. Mother's teeth is a religion trait for worshipers of a CE deity...not really fitting into most campaigns, but it is there. Not sure it would be worth it though, since it is a 1d2 secondary natural attack. I also hear about weird combinations of traits that give you the half-orc option, but those are even less reliable than Mother's teeth when it comes to convincing the GM.
There are plenty of classes that grant natural attacks. Ignoring wildshape, various spells, and the ranger's aspect of the beat, you can look toward barbarian and alchemist. Barbarian have a rage power that grants a pair of 1d6 claws while raging, and alchemist have a discovery that allows for a 1d8 bite and 1d6 claws while under the effects of mutagen. Once you get fast alchemy, you would only need a short break to remake the mutagen. Even as a dip it lasts 10 minutes per level so it might be an interesting buff for a more melee focused build. Druids also have the various animal focused shaman archetypes that can grant 3 natural attacks for minute/level after level 2.
|
I think the helm is called the helm of the mammothlord
There is also a ring...rat something... (That ring looks good) that gives a bite attack. I know there is a cloak that give secondary tentacle attacks too.
There are plenty of classes that grant natural attacks. Ignoring wildshape, various spells, and the ranger's aspect of the beat, you can look toward barbarian and alchemist. Barbarian have a rage power that grants a pair of 1d6 claws while raging, and alchemist have a discovery that allows for a 1d8 bite and 1d6 claws while under the effects of mutagen. Once you get fast alchemy, you would only need a short break to remake the mutagen. Even as a dip it lasts 10 minutes per level so it might be an interesting buff for a more melee focused build. Druids also have the various animal focused shaman archetypes that can grant 3 natural attacks for minute/level after level 2.
Did you mean Swift Alchemy? And you are basically saying that it would then take 30 min to make the next mutagen for the day? I didn't know that you can use two or more in a day...
I was thinking of using the tiefling claws/bite with another feat or something, preferably a cheaper item. Aspect of the beast is 5 level. I need something sooner : P
Aspect of the Beast is for druids. But a Ranger that selects Natural Weapons combat style gains it at second level, making it one of the quickest way to get two 1d4 claws for any race if you don't mind dipping two levels.
Ranger combat style feats don't need to meet requirements.
An aasimar ranger could get two claw attacks at level 2 and later two wing attacks.
Tiefling/half-orc/tengu ranger 2 would have two claws and a bite just with feats. Synthesist Summoner would have plenty of natural attacks at level one. Both alchemist and barbarian can get natural attacks while raging/mutagening.
Druid is obviously one of the best choices, especially with Powerful Shape feat which increases all natural attacks in a wildshape by one size.
sadly the cloak of the manta ray only applies when you immersed in water (already asked a dev about it). Here are pretty much you're only options in terms of items.
1. Talons of Leng (for claw attacks)
2. Demon Talons (you won't be able to use this if you are of good alignment, and you basically have to cut off your hand to get this item. However, if you do use this item, you'll gain a claw attack, although you'll need to buy one for each of your hands...which is still actually better then the Talons of Leng in my opinion)
3. Helm of the Mammoth Lord (for the gore attack)
4. Ring of Rat Fangs (for the bite attack)
5. Wyvern Cloak (for the sting attack)
6. Tentacle cloak (for 2 tentacle attacks, although granted this attacks are vastly inferior to the primary attack granted by the Wyvern Cloak).
7. Demon Armor (it can provide you with claw attacks, though again, you'll probably want to be evil as well).
|
|
sadly the cloak of the manta ray only applies when you immersed in water (already asked a dev about it). Here are pretty much you're only options in terms of items.
1. Talons of Leng (for claw attacks)
2. Demon Talons (you won't be able to use this if you are of good alignment, and you basically have to cut off your hand to get this item. However, if you do use this item, you'll gain a claw attack, although you'll need to buy one for each of your hands...which is still actually better then the Talons of Leng in my opinion)
3. Helm of the Mammoth Lord (for the gore attack)
4. Ring of Rat Fangs (for the bite attack)
5. Wyvern Cloak (for the sting attack)
6. Tentacle cloak (for 2 tentacle attacks, although granted this attacks are vastly inferior to the primary attack granted by the Wyvern Cloak).
7. Demon Armor (it can provide you with claw attacks, though again, you'll probably want to be evil as well).
Can you have both a gore attack and a bite attack? That would be weird since they are both on the head, unless you lean in for both in a row.
yes, u can have both a gore and a bite (again, checked with a Dev on this one).
at the end of the day, u can usually only get 5 primary natural attacks (2 claws, 1 gore, 1 bite, and 1 sting). I would not recommend getting secondary natural attacks, as they are extremely inferior in terms of damage and accuracy.
not that I am aware of. You can gain 2 wing attacks with Aasimar feats, as well as a tail attack from a kobold feat (essentially an Aasimar with the 'scion of humanity' trait along with the 'racial heritage kobold' feat can qualify for both the wing and tail attacks, though granted they are all secondary natural attacks).
Therefore, if you were an Aasimar who invested A LOT of feats into the idea, you could basically gains 8 natural attacks (5 primary and 3 secondary). Again, I wouldn't recommend this as the 3 secondary natural attacks probably aren't worth it, but if you're REALLY wanting to go all out, this is pretty much the only way to do it.
yes, u can have both a gore and a bite (again, checked with a Dev on this one).
at the end of the day, u can usually only get 5 primary natural attacks (2 claws, 1 gore, 1 bite, and 1 sting). I would not recommend getting secondary natural attacks, as they are extremely inferior in terms of damage and accuracy.
You've just gave me an idea for a bestial Anti-Paladin Aasimar build. Now I just need to multiclass either Barbarian or Wild Stalker Ranger to get pounce. Unless you got some reliable method to get that other than multiclassing.
Plus, a human or a scion of humanity aasimir could take the racial heritage feat at level 1. This comes up since kobolds have a feat granting a tail attack (I would not suggest the race itself for a natural attack build though... I mean, -4 strength?). This is a favorite of theorycrafters dealing with natural attacks. You could end up making a character that would make a synthesist jealous. *Man, my internet connection is bad...it took me this long to realize I was ninja'd*
Yeah, there does not appear to be a mention on how often a day you could brew mutagens. The limit only applies to how many you can have on you at any moment, which means you can brew a new one once you go through the first. Admittedly, that would be troublesome to keep on doing though. Stopping for 30 minutes everytime something tries to kill you (which is like... every time you'd stop at a red light in real life) is not likely to go over well with a GM. Expect many, many ambushes if you try it too often.
I can totally see a gore and bite attack happening at once. In fact, I kind of find it harder NOT to let that happen. I mean, if you have two large horns right in front of your face, and you try to shove something into your face, what do you think would happen? For horns that are just more generally jutting straight up from the fore head, I guess maybe take an upward swipe and then your face would be in just the right position.
meh, you'd be better off just going with a straight barbarian build honestly. After all, the barbarian rage powers can give you pounce, the bite, and the claw attacks you need (not to mention giving you good damage on the claw attacks as well).
Plus, if you wanna get really crazy, add on Rhino Hide to get an extra 2d6 to each of your natural attacks whenever you charge (with 5 natural attacks, that's an extra 10d6 un-typed damage).
Now, just keep in mind that things like the Wvyern Cloak are rather expensive, and you will definitely need an amulet of mighty fists to really make this work.
Just be sure to get the 'courageous' and 'furious' properties on your amulet so you can get insane bonuses on your damage (not to mention taking the raging brutality and raging vitality feats, and then stack on the Desperate Battler feat for maximum effect).
With the courageous property boosting all of your moral bonuses by half the enhancement bonus of your amulet (in this case, by +2) you will essentially get an extra +2 strength, Con, and +2 to hit and damage from the Desperate Battler feat.
|
|
Well, as far as I can tell, natural attacks are the best way to maximize damage at early levels. 3x7 + 3x(0-5) sounds kind if awesome. That is a Theifling with a bite and a second level Barbarian with the rage power of claws. Surely it can be 3x8 + 3x(0-5) + 9 to attack but a modest + 8 saves 7 attribute points. The Alchemist Barbarian combo with the feral discovery is at level 3. More powerful but I wonder if it is allowed to make more than one mutigen a day even with the swift alchemy bringing the creation of one to a 30 min delay. 30 min to make 30 min to last. Seems reasonable. Still, that is level 4.
Druids can make the claws and the bite at level 2, but only twice and for 1 min each. 1 min per level to be exact. A standard action, not too shabby, but more common is better. Barb/Drakonic sorcerer is ok, but you only have the claws for 6 rounds lets say, not ideal. Extended rage feat generally makes the rage last for all fights of the day, but still, not permanent. Later with the other natural attacks, one can have quite a few attacks, but the Zen archer is up there with all his free feats And he doesn't need that much str or dex.
The rat teeth seems like the best alternative. The ring at level 4. Then you can do a nice little Urban Barb/Druid combo if you don't mind the lack of Caster Lvl each level. I see something like 32 str for natural attacks at level 7. Just in time for the Wild +1 Dragonhide Full Plate.
Which does make me think of a Wild +1 Dragonhide Tower Shield. What would be the outcome of that? Do I keep the penalty or only the bonuses?
I like maximizing things, like the armor allows. My other character would use the Dervish Dancer feat and be a Kensai with a level of monk. I assume things would get crazy as well.
One minute would last just about the entire battle most of the time. If not... well, attacking might not be the best option at that point. Still that is only 2 fights per day at the beginning and you have to get through level 1 without it. That was always something I disliked about this system. There are many styles you cannot use until a few levels in, even if that was the point of the class.
Yeah, natural attacks are great for doing a lot of damage, but it does have problems when it comes to special materials and upgrades. Monks get around that problem by having a class feature that counts their attacks as special materials. For natural attacks... you just have to whether it out until you get an AoMF with a high enough bonus...which takes a while due to price. It is a bit easier for a barbarian though, since I think the furious weapon property boosts up the enhancement bonus by +2 for only a +1 price adjustment. That means you start getting special materials with a +1 furious AoMF.
meh, you'd be better off just going with a straight barbarian build honestly. After all, the barbarian rage powers can give you pounce, the bite, and the claw attacks you need (not to mention giving you good damage on the claw attacks as well).
Plus, if you wanna get really crazy, add on Rhino Hide to get an extra 2d6 to each of your natural attacks whenever you charge (with 5 natural attacks, that's an extra 10d6 un-typed damage).
Now, just keep in mind that things like the Wvyern Cloak are rather expensive, and you will definitely need an amulet of mighty fists to really make this work.
Just be sure to get the 'courageous' and 'furious' properties on your amulet so you can get insane bonuses on your damage (not to mention taking the raging brutality and raging vitality feats, and then stack on the Desperate Battler feat for maximum effect).
With the courageous property boosting all of your moral bonuses by half the enhancement bonus of your amulet (in this case, by +2) you will essentially get an extra +2 strength, Con, and +2 to hit and damage from the Desperate Battler feat.
Wait, do you cound the ability bonuses as well for those abilities that use Enchantment Bonus as a base? A +2 Courageous Sword has a total bonus of +3, but grants only half of the +2 that is an Enhancement bonus?
The Amulet doesn't grant any enhancement bonuses if it only has abilities on it, does it?
There are actually more ways to do this than you'd think. 2 popular ways are barbarian and alchemist. Barbarians gain rage, beast totem claws, pounce and a bite attack. Alchemists get mutagens (witch can easily last multiple encounters), two claws, a bite, pounce, flight, grab, rake, tentacle attack, and extra limbs for more claws. As for races, ratfolk and assamars make great suggestions. Ratfolk can gain the sharp claw feat for 2 claws, a tail weapon that can be enchanted normaly, coupled with an alchemist gains a bite, a tentical slam, a tail slam and 4 claws.
Other quick notes, the witch gets a hair attack, the demonic boon feat can grant another slam attack via laminusu (spelling?) Albit really late and is a b%~#+ to roleplay. The beaststrike club is a manufactured weapon that turns into another natural weapon.
Fun fact. You don't actually HAVE to put your claws on your hands, you can put them on your feet RAW. Some gms don't particulary like this tho.
Some links to read up on to get some ideas.
here, and here, and here, well there are a few links for you to read, keep in mind some are old.
|
|
Can you have both claws, slam attacks, and talons? I think not, but I am asking...
+ The extra arm alchemist discovery specifically states that the arms cannot give extra attacks per round. Only hold "free" hands, which does make me ask, can you then have say a shield in one new hand, a weapon in the other, for 2 weapon fighting (new hand), and be using Dervish Dancer feat and spell combat on a Magus (old hand free, other old hand scimitar)?
Another quick question, when I change into an animal, do I lose my previous Natural Attacks and gain new ones? Those of the creature?
I know that bucklers would probably be alright, but that is a -1 to hit for a small AC boost...plus it would look kind of odd...
Dev means developer. The people making the game. Obviously a good general source for Rules as Intended (RAI)
One other note on the Cloak of the Manta Ray - it specifically requires salt water.
We'd found one in the Temple of Elemental Evil, and were chasing off the Nulb pirates. The ship we were on was holed below the water line, but we'd given the cloak to our plate-armored dwarf so he didn't have to (we thought) worry about failing swim checks. So, he leaps off the boat, intending to flatten his manta form across the hole to slow the water rushing in, but when we looked up the item to check whether he transformed automatically or if it required an action, we noticed the salt water thing, and instead of transforming he starts sinking like a rock.
yes, u can have both a gore and a bite (again, checked with a Dev on this one).
at the end of the day, u can usually only get 5 primary natural attacks (2 claws, 1 gore, 1 bite, and 1 sting). I would not recommend getting secondary natural attacks, as they are extremely inferior in terms of damage and accuracy.
I have a question. Let's say my Antipaladin has 2 claw attacks, a bite attack and a tail (that he can use as a whip due to a feat).
How many attacks can I do for turn? All 4? How would you calculate BAB?
I'm kinda new on game mechanics, although I know tons of lore.
|
|
Claws and slams are a no go but talons are on the feet so they work. Bite and Gore are allowed even though they are on the same “limb”, see the Gargoyle for an example. If you’re working on a Barbarian/Bloodrager chassis, I would recommend a Furious Amulet of Mighty Fists. For a less expensive Gore you can use an Animal Mask. Hope this helps :)
Claws and slams are a no goWhat do you mean? What makes you say that?
I guess he meant the 'only one natural attack per limb' rule: You can't do a claw attack and a slam attack from the same limb, in the same round.
When it comes to gore attacks, personally I settled with 'the horns / tusks / whatever are separate limbs' - makes things easier. Then you might have to introduce the restriction 'just one gore appendage per head', though.
Ultimate Wilderness naturally has some content about natural attacks:
Shifter can manifest claws at will from level 1.
Same with warpriests who take the feral champion archetype.
Improved and Greater Spring Attack can be used to make 2 respective 3 attacks with the same natural weapon - that's at least my understanding.
Mutated Shape allows you to add another natural attack to wild shape.
With Totemic Initiate, Totemic Disciple and Totemic Master you can pick up barbarian rage powers - including natural attacks.
Wilding unlocks Aspect of the Beast, meaning a human could pick up claws at level 1, thanks to their bonus feat. Two feats for two claws is expensive, but at least you are free to choose your class(es).
Might have missed a few things.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
For those looking for natural attacks via feat, Spirit Oni Master (from Haunted Heroes Handbook - one of the first feats I ever wrote!) allows you to get a gore attack for relatively minimal investment. ^_^
Improved and Greater Spring Attack can be used to make 2 respective 3 attacks with the same natural weapon - that's at least my understanding.
This is true.
Well, what makes you think that you Slam with a limb? It seems clear to me that you don't necessarily. Oozes make Slam Attacks, and they don't have limbs.
The closest to an official ruling I found was this:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam).
Now I still found three different cases (examples from Bestiary 1):
1) Slam occupies one arm (normal Str bonus for damage):
Balor: +1 vorpal unholy longsword +31/+26/+21/+16 (2d6+13), +1 vorpal flaming whip +30/+25/+20 (1d4+7 plus 1d6 fire and entangle) or 2 slams +31 (1d10+12)
Marilith: +1 longsword +24/+19/+14/+9 (2d6+8/17–20), 5 +1
longswords +24 (2d6+4/17–20), tail slap +17 (2d6+3 plus grab)
or 6 slams +22 (1d8+7), tail slap +17 (2d6+3 plus grab)
Hill giant: Greatclub +14/+9 (2d8+10) or 2 slams +13 (1d8+7)
2) Slam uses two arms (3/2 Str bonus for damage, but maybe just because it's the only natural attack):
Astral deva: +2 disrupting warhammer +26/+21/+16 (1d8+14/×3 plus
stun) or slam +23 (1d8+12)
Bralani: +1 scimitar +13/+8 (1d6+8/18–20) or slam +12 (1d6+7)
Mummy: slam +14 (1d8+10 plus mummy rot)
3) Slam uses no defined arm:
Black pudding and other oozes, as you already pointed out
Elementals (well, depending on their concrete form)
Mimic
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Can you find a monster whose Full Attack would include 2 Slams or 2 Claws?
I doubt there is one. A monster is usually fine with having either a claw attack or a slam attack on its limb, so why should the writers bother? It just means a longer stat block and more reading effort for the GM. Ok, a claw can also be used as slashing weapon, opposed to a slam, but if a writer wants this versatility, they can simply replace a slam by a claw.
I am familiar with some of these stat blocks, and they are suggestive, but as you yourself pointed out, there are creatures who can make Slam Attacks that have no limbs--no discernible anatomy at all, and that means Slam Attacks do not necessarily have to be made with one's arms.
Some slam attacks are bound to limbs, the others aren't - that's the conclusion for me. The marilith is a prime example for the first group with its 6 arms and 6 slams.
The stat blocks don't consider every situation. For instance, if you are correct that a Balor Demon makes 2 Slams with its 2 arms and cannot make Slams in any other way, it does not consider the fact that that Demon might use a weapon in 1 hand and Slam with the other. Another thing it doesn't consider is that nearly every creature can make Unarmed Strikes. Probably because combining Natural Attacks with weapon attacks imposes such large penalties that the stat blocks just don't consider it.
I guess that's again an issue with stat block length. When it comes to a balor, it makes sense to tell a GM how much damage a disarmed balor does. From there it's relatively little effort to extrapolate the one weapon + one slam combination. Subtract 5 from the slam AB, halve its damage bonus - that's it.
When it comes to unarmed strikes, they are usually not worth the trouble if a creature doesn't specialize on them. While you can combine them with slams, it turns the slams into secondary attacks - so you lose (very roughly) as much as you gain. Given that many monsters don't have Improved Unarmed Strike, such attacks might even backfire heavily. Having to roll more attacks doesn't really benefit the game flow, also.